(Images from CWC)
Also – Here’s a bit of info about the “rock and golfball throwing” incident. Brave Mohawks indeed – small wonder they hide their identities behind ladies’ hankies.
UPDATE – Toronto Star;
A judge is ordering an end to negotiations between the province and aboriginal protesters over a contentious tract of land until the occupiers move off the property.
Superior Court Justice David Marshall says the talks must be suspended until the barricades come down at the Caledonia, Ont., housing development.
Marshall issued his order today after holding several hearings to discover why his previous orders to remove aboriginal protesters have been, in his words, “blatantly disregarded.”
His tough talk would be more convincing if he threw a few high ranking officials in the slammer for contempt of court.
Small technical point: the courts do not have the mechanism for enforcing the law….that is the job of the Crown/government and the police. So…why isn’t the law/court order being enforced???
Natives are the responsibility of the federal government but the land to be handed over is under provincial jurisdiction. Neither government can duck the issue.
Beardy’s Cree:
I hear what you are saying…and I am even a little (just a little) sympathetic to the idea that no one wants to be seen as setting up “another Oka.”
But, I don’t think that the people here are chomping at the bit to see an escalation just for the sake of an escalation. Rather, people are cheering on the concept of the rule of law reigning supreme.
Let’s face it…this is a case of Law and Order vs. Political Correctness (“sensitivity”). If myself and a group of other people of European, non-special-interest heritage were to set up barricades on some chunk of land and claim that a 200 year-old sale is null and void or never happened…you wouldn’t even need a court order. The residents would call the police and me and my “brothers and sisters” would be history. If we lit tires on fire, they’d come for us in riot gear. If we overtly threatened violence, they would bring in tactical teams and – if it got bad enough – kill us.
Everyone knows this.
But, in this Caledonia case, there is a court order. And it is not being respected by politicians or the police. The implications are that our own judges face a mutiny from those who are supposed to be their hands/eyes/ears when it comes to enforcing the law. That means a total loss of the rule of law. I’m not being extreme…that’s what it is. That’s terrifying.
I see the people here – who are advocating “getting tough” as simply taking a stand and hoping (against hope) that this clash between people who want to get elected and those entrusted to maintain law and order comes to a conclusion where law and order wins.
In other words, they just want to see these natives treated like everyone else. Isn’t that a great idea?
NO ESCALATION TOWARDS VIOLENCE PLEASE. If thats what you propose than you’re no better than those people cutting up the flag.
escalation towards violence? Like attempted murder? Been done already. By the “natives.”
Nice try but the violence has been committed already. The rest of us are pissed off about it and want the criminals in jail. The OPP/Ontario Government are paid from out tax dollars and are supposed to be responsible for maintaining law and order – not appeasing terrorists and criminals just because they’re “native.”
Sorry pal, no go.
Mob rule is inherently violent. What else could it possibly be? And I was watching TV the morning the mob forced the OPP off the land. I realize some claim that was a peaceful protest, but what would have happened if the cops had resisted as they should have? I suppose bank robbery is non-violent unless somebody resists.
People like Cree enjoy the passive/agressive approach of mob tactics – push decent people around until they resist, then scream about violence.
Unfortunately, what has happened here is that by virtue of the McGuinty government and the OPP hierarchy shirking their respective duties, we now have a situation that pits natives against non-natives.
By doing nothing, the tension has escalated. The natives may or may not have a legitimate land claim. And as John Tory said on a recent talk show, waiting for a 100 years to have something settled is not acceptable. But he said neither is the act of ignoring the rule of law in this country.
And it seems the Liberal government is part of a deliberate attempt to do just that.
Yo! Snowbunnie! Stop hyper-ventilating and think for just one precious second. Holy Smokes!
The Six Nations occupied that land, and the very next day, the Kaledonia Krybabies Koalition was demanding that the OPP clear them thar Injuns out.
This inspite of the tragedy of Ipperwash, where, if you’ll remember, an OPP sharpshooter shot and killed the unarmed Dudley George. Remember that? it was in all the papers? The Ipperwash Inquiry is still going on, and … wait for this … just like at Oka, just like at Burnt Church, the same as at Ipperwash, the courts later decided that the First Nations peoples were right, and the governments were wrong, wrong, wrong.
But hey, whatever floats your boat. The First Nations (not, as you put it: “A tawdry collection of ‘tribes,'”) are laughing all the way to the homeless shelter, living it up at your expense.
Regarding negotiating land claims:
http://www.laa.gov.nl.ca/laa/landclaims/page3.htm
“Only the federal government has the jurisdiction to accept land claims for negotiation. Once an Aboriginal group declares its intention to submit land claims they may request a grant from the federal government to prepare the support material. When claims are submitted, the federal government must assess them based on federal policy and on relevant decisions from the courts. If the federal government accepts land claims as the basis to negotiate it invites the province to participate in negotiations.”
Regarding the federal record on land claims:
http://www.news.utoronto.ca/bin6/060508-2301.asp
“Six Nations residents have been pursuing their claim to the 40 hectares near Caledonia through the courts and treaty system since the mid-1990s. However, Wesley-Esquimaux said one problem with resolving treaty disputes is it typically takes a decade just to complete the initial research.
The result is situations such as Caledonia. ‘Part of the reason they occupied it is they know if they let [the developer] go ahead and develop this land then it’s gone. So the reality for First Nations across Canada is that they have to take a stand where they can,’ said Wesley-Esquimaux, adding there are hundreds of outstanding aboriginal land claims nationwide.”
Regarding your statement that these claims are just an attempt by the First Nations to rip us off, … this is a free country, and you’re free to be as ignorant as you like. But it doesn’t mean that nobody can call you on it.
Thwap, grow up. Labelling an entire group as racist, when none of the behaviour listed comes close to such is amateurish and idiotic.
The land claim could and should have been handled more civily by both sides from the begining, as it stands now, attacking an 89 year old is certainly not going to lend itself well to a peoples that are claiming grievance… Of course there are a series of other idiotic incidents, which we could sound off at each other, but frankly, I am not the kind of guy to go measuring “who has the greatest grievance”.
If the FN people are serious about negotiating, then it is time they have shown a serious sign of that willingness. To date, it has not come. In fact, we see in today’s MSM that they are willing to escalate again. Mistake. My sympathy for the lot in Caledonia ran out in May.
One country, one set of rules. The double standard, and entrenched racism in the current rules has to end.
-Reason
If i hear “first nations” once more, im going to barf.
Obviously, those who aspire to this lofty designation do not deserve it in fact or in deed.
The whole thing is simple.
You break the law, you get jailed (at least)
The rest is just a lot of nonsense
Racism is one of the most overused words today. It is often used when the correct term might be, for examples, ethnicist or classist.
Anyway, the whole thing stinks because McCrooky and the master of sleaze, David Peterson, pulled a fast one and guess who is left holding the bag? Go on, guess.
Why did Ken Hill lose out in a bid to buy the land when Henco won it? Why was it for sale? What did Hill want it for? Who sold it? If it is a legitimate claim, why wasn’t that brought to light earlier?
Why was MPP for Brantford Dave Levac writing letters to the editor discussing the disposition of named parcels of land prior to any negotiations?
Why did McGutless buy people’s houses near the site and tell them to vacate by October?
Who wins if a casino, as rumoured, is built there?
Who wins if property values continue to erode in Caledonia and if unrest continues?
Why would McSpineless initiate the purchases only after the House adjourned for the summer?
How are court orders allowed to be ignored, especially when they are directed at the government? That is one of the most shocking aspects of the case.
There is more to this than meets the eye but it stinks because it has been arranged by the most unfit government in the history of Ontario and I include Rae and Peterson on that list.
It’s also set one heck of a precedent, so look forward to similar corrupt situations developing in a field near you. If rioting and violating the rule of law pays, why would you go through the proper channels?
I hope nobody votes Liberal in Ontario next time because I’ll have to move – it’s too painful to watch this bunch of crooks turn everything they touch into muck.
Jeff and lee, I’m with you.
BTW, might “thwap” stand for THe Wingnut Aboriginal Posse?
‘Just wondering.
FIRST NATIONS!!!!
I really love how you people worship the rule of law when it’s convenient for you.
I can see the judge wanting his rulings respected, I don’t mind him, but you types are all for tax-revolts and defying the government when it’s some “socialist” government trying to give you efficient public health care or something.
Anyway, that rule of law thing? It cut’s both ways:
http://scottneigh.blogspot.com/2006/05/more-from-orkin.html
It’s Andrew Orkin’s letter about the rule of law ..
“It is far from clear that the Iroquois Confederacy members re-occupying their lands are legally in the wrong.
If they are, why has the federal government spent the last 20 years or so frantically evading having to account to the Six Nations Band Council in Court for the Crown’s (mis)handling of the vast Haldimand Grant that it holds in trust for the Iroquois people?
It is time that Canadians remind themselves of ALL of the applicable law, not just the bits that seem to justify our occupation and takings of others’ lands.
…
Respect for the law is not a one-way, natives-only street. Non-natives and their governments must respect the law too, and all of it.”
toodles folks!!!
Oh, yeah, I almost forgot:
FIRST NATIONS!!!!!
I think the police should start arresting any or all of the people that do not leave that contested land. the civil unrest has been tolerated for far too long. throw them all in jail if you have to. i would be mad as heck if that was happening in my backyard…and it is, it’s happening in Canada…if the provincials cannot solve this at once, the feds have to step in to take control.
What, no Hezb’allah flag?
the msm has done it again..it seems not one person has any real idea of what is really going on here…
let’s look at some random tidbits..
1. not far from said disputed land is a native cigarette factory
2. said factory employs well over 100 people and generates plenty of revenue
3. convenience stores in eastern ontario showing declines up to 70% in legit smoke sales
4. mcliar and company claim smoking decrease in Ontario is because of liberal wizardry
5 bootleg smokes turning up in high schools, etc, prompting low level complaints from regional health authorities
Me thinks this whole thing has something to do with bootleg smokes, and the true number of kids, poor and elderly consuming them
thoughts anyone?
Quote from CWC’s site:
“All Canadians should be ashamed of themselves if they do not act – do you think democracy is FREE?”
Only thing I don’t like about that is CWC is now blaming all of Canada or trying to put the guilt on us out West for Ontario’s failures in fixing this…clean up your own backyard and don’t include me bud…
This is happening in Ontario, you know, by that democratically elected party called the Liberals you moron’s voted in.
It also happens to be the same province that has Toronto as it’s capital.
But, I digress, try this protest in Alberta and see what happens…
Don’t barf Lee, but ironically the term “first nations” is an oxymoron.
How can singlular “first” and the plural “nations” be in the same term?
Akin to the term Military Intelligence.
Besides, what nation(s)? The natives were constantly warring and killing each other, doesn’t seem like a nation or first to me.
But hey, that’s not PC think.
“BTW, might “thwap” stand for THe Wingnut Aboriginal Posse?
‘Just wondering.”
Oh! Thou hast cut me to the quick!
I notice that in this site’s mutual-masturbation episodes there’s a great hue and cry about how the left doesn’t respond well to actual arguments.
Then, when you’re provided with one, accompanied by links, that reveal your utter ignorance on the subject you’ve chosen to pontificate about, you respond with lame non-sequiturs or outright avoidance.
“Jeff,” you chide me for labelling the vile garbage posted here as “racism.” You seem totally unconcerned to labelling the First Nations Peoples “terrorists.” Why don’t you, and everyone else check out the online inquiries into the deaths of Dudley George, Neil Stonechild, or Betty-Anne Osborne? They’re all easily found, and accessible.
Why don’t you all honestly face the reality of racism in Canada and drop your self-pitying garbage and your laughable conspiracy theories?
Hey thwap, once again, I will suggest nicely to drop the generalisations, else one might start to think you are representative of the loony left.
The rule of law is not a thing of convenience to me, nor I suspect the vast majority here. It is the supposed rule of the land. If so called human rights types would perhaps put victims before criminals, none-sense like we are seeing now would be a little more unlikely.
The rule of law is a thing of conveinence for the childish left. One that is often trampled on and degraded to the point where the left can celebrate letting the likes of Whitmore walk the street.
Reap what you sow.
Can someone tell me if the land in question was actually “sold”? I think I read a while back that the Crown did not really have clear title for the property in question. I have heard several “spins” on this, but until someone does some journalistic digging to find out just what gives with this land parcel and posts it in the media, I doubt anyone on this thread has any idea who actually owns the land. It would be a hoot if McSquinty and Co “The Crown” issued building permits through the local municipality on land the Crown did not have title to. Probably why Harper is steering clear of this – it’s a McSquinty goof up.
If I am not mistaken (I do not have time for the research at the moment) the lands were sold by the province, and there is a potential for a real claim to be laid.
My contention is the approach, ie waiting for the development to be nearly complete, is under handed at best.
Further, the violence perpetuated by both sides is unacceptable. What has to be understood, as right as the claim may in fact be, the violence was escalated on the side of the FN peoples first.
Further, the left malaigns the credibility of the OPP, by screeching about the wrongs of the OPP in this event, when they have been by all credible accounts doing everything possible to de-escalate the situation, with one group that wants nothing to do with de-escalation, and another that is scared, and hoping for a return to normalcy.
The OPP have been doing a commendable job till now, for the most part, and should be lauded and encouraged to continue to keep the peace.
Because this was “provincial” land to begin with, the ball is in the provincial court, despite the weak meanderings of one misguided individual posting here.
A peaceful solution is a must. There is enough violence in this wonderful little world of ours… It is bloody right time for us to correct many sins of our past, and bury the past. Those that can’t get over the past, suffer, don;t bring the rest of this nation down with your selfishness.
Something happened to my post.
What happened to your post? Something can be anything of a million things.
I’m sure someone has already asked this question, but please enlighten me: How was this land sold to Henco in the first place? Was there not some kind of title search done? Was there not some kind of hint that this land was under dispute?
I would really appreciate any information about this. Thanks.
…i miss this thing called “Dominion of Canada”
For those of you looking for historical/legal information, go to CAW site; then either:
1. go to Bottom lefthand side and use citizens of caledonia . ca link, which is above revolving blue mail box or:
2. on CAW site, in same bottom horizontal column is ‘documents’ including historical claims, legal actions/decisions etc.
For those who are claiming this site and others are inflaming the situation; BULL! A combination of in-action has inflamed it, including police standing by, refusing to come to aid citizens/bystanders when they are physically attacked or had their property stollen. If the situation had been reversed, we all know the ‘law’ would have been applied to it’s fullest extent. There is a double standard being applied because politicians are afraid of another Ipperwash incident.
Does anyone know for a fact if; Gwen Boniface related to Ken Hill or not?
Does anyone know the name of the lawyer in Saskatchewan who had a couple of class action lawsuits going? One was for Telus customers.
I would like to contact him in regards to the our legal rights/interests of Canadians in this situation with respect to the precedence, if any, set by these secret negotiations, (who will ultimately pay) and the lack of respect/enforcement of our laws and courts.
Joanne and outsider:
Henco had clear title to that property just the same as the rest of the people have clear title that are sitting on the very same land claim “The Plank Road”. The Henco property is just a teeny-weenie piece of this whole claim. As we speak, on this same land claim there is being built an A&W, Shoppers Drug Mart and Mark’s Work Wearhouse.(There were rumours of native interference but they are still going ahead).
Even though Hennings satisfied all legal issues with regards to getting approval from the elected Band Council and getting the archeological survey completed, the protesters “reclaimed” the land.
Now, of course, it is “sacred” land with thousands of bodies buried. That is why the natives have dumped loads of stone to make a road and roar ATV’s all over the place at all hours of the day and night. At last report Ken Hill has constructed “a variety store” on the land (I guess the moratorium on building does not apply to the natives).
They have taken over the houses that are in various states of being completed and we notice that the lights are on (gee..who is paying for the electricity)and hey…if you need a little refreshment, just open up the fire hydrants and let them run all day.
Just for fun read Steve Janke’s information with respect to some of the people linked to this reclamation.
Have fun reading!
yo, brucey. BRUCEY. the retired cop, ya you.
tell me again who the ‘asshole’ is. the opp standing by doing nothing and getting all this flak, or me for pointing out the many other failings and malfaescence by cops everywhere? hmmm?
YOUR word not mine !!!
speaking of ‘words’ the ‘word’ is boniFARCE.
Nancy, thanks! That’s all very interesting. It looks as if the natives don’t really have a legal claim here at all. I am shocked that this type of thing is actually happening in Canada.
It has really undermined the confidence of the general public in government and law enforcement, IMO.
Fresh sockeye salmon is now available on the Westcoast – $10 a fish … no limit. If they run out today they will have more tomorrow.
Having several OPP officers as friends, I can assure Robert (when he is done foaming at the mouth that is) that the officers on scene are doing every damn thing possible to keep the greater peace in Caledonia.
I can assure you Robert. There are far greater things going on in your neck of the woods, then you won little sphere of influence (which, based on that out burst, I have to say is thankfully small).
Jeff,
While you’re masquerading as the voice of reason, you might want to chide those folks tossing the word “terrorist” around with gay abandon. Once more (for emphasis) the First Nations were forced into confrontations at Oka, Burnt Church, and Ipperwash. Each time they were found to be in the right. If they’d listened to the Indian haters and been polite, their treaty rights would have continued to have been violated. It’s the same durned think in Caledonia.
Here’s some links I was talking about earlier:
http://www.ipperwashinquiry.ca/index.html
http://www.stonechildinquiry.ca
http://www.helenbettyosbornefdtn.ca/
http://www.amnesty.ca/campaigns/sisters_overview.php
Oh, and “Tomax7,” uh, who said “first” was singular?
Ever hear a sentence like: “We were the first people there.” -? Is your command of your the language really that bad? Here’s another: “You are the first four contestants on ‘The Price is Right’!”
But I also notice some rilly, like, smart people here, saying the OPP should clear’em on out, but without causing another Ipperwash. Maybe you could explain how that would be possible.
The Six nations Band Council on the issue of the “Plank Road Claim” were handling it as an accounting issue as in “where did the money go”. At no time, were they ever going to take it back….it would be a monetary settlement(if they won which was doubtful). However, I believe that they do have some legitimate claims in the Haldimand TRact…this probably isn’t one of them.
It’s the protesters that decided to take it over. They answer to no one including their own Haudenosaunee Chiefs….that is quoted by one of the Chiefs as well back in May. Their agenda is far greater than getting back DCE…that is just a ruse that has worked for them…they want to take back governance of Six Nations which would mean that they would have great monetary control.
Please do some reading on the ever delightful Mohawk Warriors and the Iroquois (not just the last 200 years that they want you to read but go back about 400 years)….such a warm and fuzzy group….some things never change.
The Six nations Band Council on the issue of the “Plank Road Claim” were handling it as an accounting issue as in “where did the money go”. At no time, were they ever going to take it back….it would be a monetary settlement(if they won which was doubtful). However, I believe that they do have some legitimate claims in the Haldimand TRact…this probably isn’t one of them.
It’s the protesters that decided to take it over. They answer to no one including their own Haudenosaunee Chiefs….that is quoted by one of the Chiefs as well back in May. Their agenda is far greater than getting back DCE…that is just a ruse that has worked for them…they want to take back governance of Six Nations which would mean that they would have great monetary control.
Please do some reading on the ever delightful Mohawk Warriors and the Iroquois (not just the last 200 years that they want you to read but go back about 400 years)….such a warm and fuzzy group….some things never change.
yo, jeffy:
does ‘every damn thing possible’ include leaving their OWN compadres to fend for themselves?
feel free to browse caledoniawakeupcall.com for details.
(foam foam foam) LOL !!!
the FACTS sirrah are that the opp negligence is the biggest contributing factor to the longevity of this dispute; the severity is the responsibility of the natives.
Twhap, I remember Oka better then you think. It was a rightous claim. However, make no mistake as to who percipitated the violence. It was the Mohawks in place, not the Quebec police (though the reaction from the police was idiotic).
At least this time the “warriors” are not running around showing off their AK47’s and SKS’s in public. Make no mistake, they are no doubt their.
The protestors in location currently have proven by action and words that they do not want a peaceful solution. Having said that, if a peaceful solution is not possible, then for the greater good they MUST be removed by force.
Suck it up butter cup. They are wrong. The hypocrisy of the situation stinks to high heaven. If they were serious about the claim, they would have occupied the land prior to the houses going up. Not after they were almost done. Secondly, their collective behaviour during the “occupation” is beyond deplorable.
Nice to see you have not changed at all since you left that den of idiocy an mypoia from babble.
Robert, there are facts to the situation, which you neither see, nor do you apparently want to see. Get over yourself.
They precipitated the violence? They occupied land at Oka that was rightfully theirs. The Quebec government stupidly sent the police in when they knew that some of the Warrior Society were there.
It’s the governments that send the cops in as the front-line to bust up legitimate protests.
I wonder how many people slagging the Six Nations here would countenance allowing the feds and/or provincial governments to steal their land and to attack peaceful occupations of the stolen lands?
Because that’s what it means when you’re calling for the OPP to clear these people out with no negotiation.
The truth of the matter is that I’m not blind to the excesses of the First Nations protestors. But I recognize that given the duplicity of Canadian politicians, given the societal trauma of residential schools, the sixties sweep, the 24-take down, etc., … that the Natives have a right to be angry.
The onus is on us, the settler society, to prove our goodwill, our reasonableness. Not this crybaby whining about a peaceful occupation that didn’t turn ugly until we made it turn ugly.
Do you remember what happened to Clifford George’s mother’s grave at Ipperwash? He volunteered in World War II. He served Canada, and came back to find his lands gone, and when he looked at where his mother’s grave had been, he saw that it’d been dug up, and the place was filled with trenches where white recruits were “playing soldier” in basic training.
The First Nations suffer from the highest rates of unemployment, suicide, poverty, homelessness. Now, some people here want to pretend that this is because the Natives are a degenerate race, unfit for modern civilization. That’s racism.
It’s rather because this society has prevented the First Nations from either keeping their traditional way of life, and kept them from fully joining ours. (We tried to drum the “Indian” out of them, without really wanting to hire them, or allow them to participate fully in our society.)
It’s up to us to be reasonable. Not them.
I find it amusing that you accuse babble of myopia given the complete and utter ignorance about the history of Canadian-First Nations relations exhibited here. You’d think if these people were so passionate about these issues that they’d bother to do 10 minutes research of bigoted websites.
I gave this issue up as a loss for rational debate when I heard the official spokesperson for ‘First Nations’ on .570 talk radio a month or so ago. I think her name was Janie Jameson (, but her message was that First Nations don’t recognize Canada as a country, so anything that gets decided by the courts or government (that they don’t like) will be ignored. Pretty convenient fallback position.
So we’re trying to negotiate a land claim with a group who will diregard any decision that doesn’t give them what they want. Brilliant.
It’s rather because this society has prevented the First Nations from either keeping their traditional way of life, and kept them from fully joining ours. (We tried to drum the “Indian” out of them, without really wanting to hire them, or allow them to participate fully in our society.)
How long ago did the “drumming” stop? It hasn’t been happening in at least the last two generations (at least not at Six Nations).
How many people actually follow the Haudonosaunee way…. even the chiefs say they have no control over the protesters?
It is all a complete farce. The protesters are only “haudenosaunee” when it suits them. Do a chronological study of all of their antics at the reclamation site and you will soon see how hollow their words are. Why would any of us non-natives believe a word of their oral teachings from hundreds of years ago when they can’t tell the same storey just days apart.
I know many wonderful natives….none of them are at that protest site. I know many wonderful non-natives…none of them are at the barricades.
Folks, there are only two responses possible to armed insurrection. Massive force, or surrender.
Your call. I don’t care.
“The First Nations suffer from the highest rates of unemployment, suicide, poverty, homelessness. Now, some people here want to pretend that this is because the Natives are a degenerate race, unfit for modern civilization. That’s racism.
It’s rather because this society has prevented the First Nations from either keeping their traditional way of life, and kept them from fully joining ours. (We tried to drum the “Indian” out of them, without really wanting to hire them, or allow them to participate fully in our society.)”
We are paying through the nose for this ‘society of first nations’ to continue to live in abject refusal to join modern society and enjoy the democratic freedoms and responsibilities enjoyed by full citizens of this country!
Their ‘chiefs’ make all the decisions and collect an enormous sum of money from the taxpayer every year…and what is done with it? The chiefs use it as they see fit and the tribes can go straight to hell as far as they are concerned..as evidenced by the lack of any sense of responsibility on their part to see that their people are properly looked after.
IF they are to continue to insist on a tribal structure with the chief, council, being the ruling authority then their backward and un-educated way of life will continue to infinity.
As long as Canada accepts this as the way it should be instead of insisting that they assimilate with the rest of the country we will continue to pay enormous sums of money that is going down the drain of unapologetic tribal chiefs who use the money as they see fit.
Obviously what they consider fit and the welfare of their charges has little to do with the reality of the serious nature of the decline of their society.
Again, it is stated that this is all OUR fault.
IT is not. Indian tribes in this country are a conquered people, now insisting that we re-write history and cover their mistakes of the past.
We have done so to the tune of billions and billions of dollars and where has it gotten us?
A perpetual guilt trip every time things do not go the way the ‘first nations’ want them to go.
They hijack whatever they please and “Demand” … just as a spoilt child will continue to demand from an over-indulgent parent..so do the tribes of this country.
Some tribes were smart enough to get a land treaty and were paid for the land they now own outright.
Others were cheated out of what was rightfully theirs and governments since have tried to re-pay.
And we have continued to pay and pay and pay.
We can never go back 200 years or 150 years. What was then was then. What is now is now and had better be dealt with wisely.
These Indians protesting at Caledonia did not own the land. It had been sold long ago and they do not have any claim on it regardless of what they say. They have taken this land by force and have victimized the owners and the people of Caledonia.
How dare you defend their criminal acts against law abiding citizens of this country.
IF the Indians want to live among us rather than take back every piece of land they claim is theirs ( just look at what they demand!!) then it is time to act like civilized human beings rather than the terrorists they have proven themselves to be.
The things that have happened in Caledonia with the OPP looking on and doing nothing is a travesty of justice to CANADIANS not the so called ‘first nations’ who insist on their cloak of victimization as cover for attempted murder, assault and many acts of terrorization of a peaceful residential community cursed only by their proximity to their illegal land grab and continued illegal squatting on that land.
Not to mention downed hydro lines, hydro towers , blocked road, burnt bridges…
YOU, thwap, take the time to learn what has happend in this town called Caledonia instead of coming here to chastize the normal outpouring of outrage against these criminals.
Snowbunnie,
You can keep spinning your delusions, but repeating the same thing over and over isn’t going to make it true.
The first stage in overcoming your appalling ignorance is to understand that the Six Nations are not a conquered people.
They were allies of the British as late as 1812-14. They were never conquered.
If you don’t even have a grasp of these basic facts, you mustn’t presume that you are fit to comment on a situation such as this.
The fact of the matter is that they did accept lands in treaties and these lands were sold, or given to white squatters. The land in question was extorted from the Six Nations and the deal was signed by individuals from Six Nations who could be pressured to put pen to paper and legitimize what was a naked power-play.
There has been some snide comments about how the Native activists recognize their chiefs when its convenient for them. This reveals cluelessness about the dispute of the traditional chiefs and the clan mothers and the elected chiefs system that started in 1924.
Go read about the 1922 presentation of the First Nations at the League of Nations, Canada’s response to that decision, and the 1924 assault on the traditional governance structures of the Six Nations peoples before you want to start talking about the sanctity of the rule of law.
Someone else said that the current generations of First Nations has no legitimate grievances out of the sins of the distant past. There are adult Indians who lost all contact with their families during the “sixties sweep.” See if you can research that term. Also, the residential schools weren’t shut down until the late-1960s. These wounds are still raw.
But omigod, … there’s a tire-fire in Caledonia! The Natives are chucking rocks back at the whites! Some of them are angry and impolite! Goodness gracious, … if the rule of law isn’t respected in this particular instance, Canada itself will descend into anarchy!! (But we can ignore our treaty obligations with no ill effects, …’natch!)
You’re asking these people to continue to be chumps and if they won’t, you see fit to call them terrorists. Words and principles are cheap with the right-wing. That’s something I’ve noticed after becoming interested in politics. Your credibility (so far as I’m concerned) was lost in the sands of Iraq and in the deficits of Mike Harris.
All I’m getting from you Snowbunnie is that you have a command of your own arguments based on your lack of vital information about the subject at hand.
Thwap
You can try and rewrite history as much as you like and make as many excuses for a bunch of hoodlums and terrorists but the bottom line is that in a civilized society the rule of law must be obeyed,
We have a judicial system in this country to deal with these matters and it must be respected or do we allow different groups to pick and choose when they will accept or respect judicial decisions – if so then you can be sure you are headed for anarchy.
Thwap. Interesting comments.
Definitely, the natives have some legitimate beefs about our society. (who doesn’t, especially after the last dozen years of Liberal mis-governance and corruption)
But come on now. That in no way justifies the type of bullying and destruction shown by the protesters. Use the courts to settle the disputes for God’s sake!
Peter Benyk,
What are the words that you have difficulty reading? I have said that we can’t ignore our treaty obligations. So there’s your “rule of law.”
If I’ve rewritten history, kindly say where and how. I’m not going to respect your inane generalizations. I know that’s probably a new one for you, but there you have it.
“There has been some snide comments about how the Native activists recognize their chiefs when its convenient for them. This reveals cluelessness about the dispute of the traditional chiefs and the clan mothers and the elected chiefs system that started in 1924.”
I guess that would be my snide remark.
However, if the protesters can only act under the direction of the chiefs and the clanmothers, then why were they not part of the protest when it started? The chiefs and clanmothers were brought into this after the initial protest. They were not in favour of blocking the roads and railways in the first place…..please go check their website and I repeat myself even the chiefs have stated that they do not have control over the protesters.
The Confederacy is nothing more than a native theocracy. How can we as Canadians support this when not all natives are haudenosaunee? Thwap…please help me get this through my little pea brain. Don’t tell me that it isn’t our problem….these people live with us…they are not an island. It was the Christian Haudenosaunee who complained to the RCMP in 1924 about the corrupt Confederacy….nothing has changed!
I have no idea why everything I post is coming up twice! Sorry for the confusion.
“The fact of the matter is that they did accept lands in treaties and these lands were sold, or given to white squatters. The land in question was extorted from the Six Nations and the deal was signed by individuals from Six Nations who could be pressured to put pen to paper and legitimize what was a naked power-play.”
And,by your own words. SOLD their land.
There you have it.
In Caledonia, those lands were sold. It does not matter how the signatures got on the paper, bub. They SOLD their land. The RIGHTFUL owners of that land have been abused and so have the the citizens of Caledonia. You can go back to greivances real and imagined to the beginning of time and it will not change two things: The land in question in Caledonia was SOLD. The Six Nations no longer owned it.
Mohawk Warriors as I hear it moved in and took over the situation and occupied the buildings.
They have been blocking roads, burning tires, bridges and in general subjecting the residents of Caledonia to terrorist tactics since last March. The OPP has taken no action on behalf of the citizens of Caledonia even when ordered to do so by the court.
I simply do not care what the Indians want. It is not of any value whatsoever in this dispute. They SOLD the land. End of discussion.
Everything that flows out of the occupation of land that did not belong to them is a series of criminal acts.
PERIOD.
The ONLY reason this goes on is that the government does not have the backbone to stand up for legal peaceful citizens because the Mohawk warriors might cause trouble. Well, they HAVE caused trouble and have tried to commit murder in the bargain not to mention harrassing the citizens and haranging residents and business owners.
The government should have put a stop to it long ago and they did not.
Indian land claims can be argued ’til the cows come home, take themselves to the barn and milk themselves dry and it will NOT change the issues at Caledonia.
Illegal occupation of land not owned by the Six Nations. Terrorists terrorizing the residents and business owners of Caledonia. OPP doing absolutely nothing, ignoring court orders and acting as an arm of the Ontario government both of whom totally abandon their charge of protecting the citizens.
They are AFRAID of the Mohawk Warriors and everything they have done or failed to do shows that glaringly.
“Thwap” that around!