Ed Morrissey quotes a Barry Rubin piece that “attempts to explain to Westerners the reasons why our efforts to deal with the Palestinians on a rational basis have no hope of success”. His own commentary is just as good.
When Ehud Barak offered Yasser Arafat 95% of the territory he demanded for a Palestinian state, Western leaders thought that Bill Clinton achieved a major breakthrough. Clinton could not be faulted for thinking so; a string of American presidents had pressed Israel into returning the West Bank and Gaza in exchange for peace, and Clinton had finally succeeded in making it happen.
Of course, Arafat turned it down. Why? Because the deal gave him what he demanded, but not what he wanted. His answer to the Israeli offer came in the form of two intifadas, while Europe continued to castigate the Israelis for their continuing oppression of the Palestinians who terrorized them.
Last year, Ariel Sharon decided to give back Gaza unilaterally. The disengagement gave the Palestinians their own territory to govern, and it solved a tough military problem for the IDF in protecting the few thousand settlers among over a million Palestinians. One would have expected the Palestinians to celebrate and establish their own governance of the territory, especially since the Israelis gave back all of it. What happened? They complained that the Israelis left without negotiating for Gaza’s return, and then paid them back by using Gaza as a launching pad for hundreds of rocket strikes. In the meantime, the Palestinians did nothing to maintain civil control of Gaza.
They do not want peace. They want Israel. Nothing short of that will satisfy the Palestinians, and all of the talk in the world will do not one whit of good until they understand that we will not allow them to destroy Israel, and of course neither will the Israelis.
ET (under the gun today!)
Population transfers (in the millions) have been achieved with succes. E.g. Greece Turkey 1923. 1.5m/.5m
(I’m not necessarily suggesting this but it can’t be automatically ruled out.)
You of all people, should be aware that the Palestinians are proxies for the darker forces of Islamism and are currently pawns in Iran’s game.
The west is entirely complicit, with the exception of sections of the U.S. government. The recent E.U/U.N. condemnation of Israel’s Gaza response after remaining silent on the provocations is testament to this.
In any case, after decades of indoctrination, a significant percentage of the Palestinians population is geared for war with Israel.
Poll: Majority of Palestinians back kidnappings, Qassam fire
(That’s a Palestinian polling company.)
Whatever land they get under your scheme, and I see its merits, they should not be allowed to occupy positions that could make them a strategic threat to their neighbour.
But, the problem with doing the same in Israel and Palestine is that Israel doesn’t want these people as citizens!!!
It did once. Not now. Who would?
Not anymore than I want, in all honesty, any more new US citizens with Islamic backgrounds. Too risky.
ET, your mental machinations and sense of fairness regarding the Palestinians is why I like and respect you, but, sorry, I think that “land” and “governance” will change nothing for them. They are radioactive. Sometimes you’re just plain and simple losers and history relegates you to the graveyard of failed cultures. I can extend that to all things Islamic – too intolerant to incorporate science and a civil society in the past thousand years, too primitive to join the modern secular world, too war-like to think of peaceful alternatives, you get my drift.
My only positive scenerio is that Israel would be allowed to do a WWII on them, pulverize their terrorist homeboys, occupy them and force a democratic agenda down their stupid throats. Shades of Iraq? You bet. And, yes, the outcome is “iffy”, but nothing else has worked in the rot of the ME so far.
Show me a dysfunctional country in history that social workers ever saved? I think that is what you are requesting, in a way.
You are a sweetheart even though we disagree.
“Can. Obs. Kill them all. Equally impossible.”
ET,I never said anywhere to kill them all.That’s their ultimate choice to make,not yours or mine…stop and think before you react please.
You are far too naive about the’dark side’of man if you think they can be forced to live side X side in peace.Personally,I would love to see it….that does not change the fact I never will….You have a martian perspective indeed!
CBCpravda’s take on terrorism
All Khadr, All the time.
this little SOb should have been shot two years ago.
tortured with pine oil and his own pee, they were probably trying to clean him.
straight from CBCPravdas report
When he was able to walk, interrogators made him pick up trash, then emptied the bag and made him do it again.
the horror, the horror.
Women’s Rights, Palestinian Style
The “armed wing” of the Palestinian “moderate” Fatah Party has announced their very first female suicide bomber unit.
A group belonging to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah party announced on Monday that it had recruited Palestinian women to launch suicide attacks against Israel.
via LGF
I’m sure this point will be lost as I enter the debate so late, but what is strangely missing from ET’s points is the fact that Arabs (now so-called Palestinians) were offered their own state at the same time that Israel was created, but *they* rejected it. Why? They chose to fight and drive out the Jewish people instead. All Arab backed “Palestinian” actions since then have been to drive out the Jewish people. The fact that the “Palestinians” elected Hamas means that the majority of the population supports the goal of destroying Israel, particularly since everyone knows that’s the entire purpose of Hamas.
penny:
re mentioning the japanse experience.
bingo.
bingo bingo bingo bingo.
havent seen any reports of japanese miltary aggression spurned by the desire of conquest and economic supremacy since, oh, say about 1942. ’bout the time midway happened.
to those whimpy’s whut claims they were ‘on the verge of sullenda’ the day before hiroshima: SO WHAT. it was the CIVILIAN AUTHORITIES yearning for surrender but THEY WERENT IN CHARGE. the military s.o.b.s KNEW they were in for war crimes trials etc and were NOT going to surrender.
hiroshima was the wake up call, nagasaki was the message. the shock effect gave the CIVILIAN authorites the opportunity to move quickly and sign the surrender documents.
theyre still in charge today, ergo no war of aggression and conquest out of the DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED CONSTITUTION BRANDISHING japanese nation.
any chance THIS could ever happen with the palestinians? not whilst Israel continues to be blamed for every least little incident.
Att: CanRev.
Youseff agrees with you, to wit:
“the truth is the Palestine you could have had in 1948 is much bigger than the one you could have had in 1967, which in turn is much bigger than what you may have to settle for now or in another 10 years.”
The “Palestinian cause” is lost. …-
To my Arab brothers: The War with Israel Is Over — and they won. Now let’s finally move forward
Youssef M. Ibrahim
Dear Palestinian Arab brethren:
The war with Israel is over.
You have lost. Surrender and negotiate to secure a future for your children.
We, your Arab brothers, may say until we are blue in the face that we stand by you, but the wise among you and most of us know that we are moving on, away from the tired old idea of the Palestinian Arab cause and the “eternal struggle” with Israel.
Dear friends, you and your leaders have wasted three generations trying to fight for Palestine, but the truth is the Palestine you could have had in 1948 is much bigger than the one you could have had in 1967, which in turn is much bigger than what you may have to settle for now or in another 10 years. Struggle means less land and more misery and utter loneliness.
At the moment, brothers, you would be lucky to secure a semblance of a state in that Gaza Strip into which you have all crowded, and a small part of the West Bank of the Jordan. It isn’t going to get better. Time is running out even for this much land, so here are some facts, figures, and sound advice, friends. …- more
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1664172/posts
Report: Abbas threatens to resign
“Abbas responded that he no longer had any authority.” More:
Jerusalem Post and AP ^ | July 12, 2006
Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas has threatened to resign, dismantle the Authority and leave the Territories, the London-based A Sharq al Awsat reported Wednesday. …-
via free republic
Israel Air Force Reserves Called to Active Duty
Posted by West Coast Conservative
On 07/12/2006 12:16:00 PM PDT · 2 replies
Arutz Sheva ^ | July 12, 2006
The Israel Air Force began to call in its reserves for active duty on Wednesday evening. The reserves were called up to participate in air strikes on terrorist targets in Lebanon in the wake of a massive attack by Hizbullah operatives on the northern Israel border early Wednesday morning.
free republic
Israel’s Next War Has Begun
Posted by West Coast Conservative
On 07/12/2006 1:31:56 PM PDT · 10 replies · 171+ views
The New Republic ^ | July 12, 2006 | Yossi Klein Halevi
The next Middle East war–Israel against genocidal Islamism–has begun. The first stage of the war started two weeks ago, with the Israeli incursion into Gaza in response to the kidnapping of an Israeli soldier and the ongoing shelling of Israeli towns and kibbutzim; now, with Hezbollah’s latest attack, the war has spread to southern Lebanon. Ultimately, though, Israel’s antagonists won’t be Hamas and Hezbollah but their patrons, Iran and Syria. The war will go on for months, perhaps several years. There may be lulls in the fighting, perhaps even temporary agreements and prisoner exchanges. But those periods of calm will..
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1664555/posts
The west has it all wrong, people. If Arabs hated Jews then why did they send their ships to rescue them from the infamous Spanish Inquisitions when Muslim-ruled Spain fell back to Christians in 1492? Jews were given safe haven in numerous Arab and Muslim countries where they thrived and some held high political positions. One was the personal physician to a famous Caliph.
Why did a Mosque in Paris give safe haven to Jews, especially Jewish children, then gave them alternate identities to save them from the Nazi threat? Duhhh! It’s about stolen Palestinian land, folks. Jews stole their land, Palestinians want it back. Someone steals your farm, you gonna let them get away with it? If Canadians stole Palestine, massacred its people, tortured, raped, vilified and demonized its people, bulldozed and blew up over 400 Arab villages and many thousands of their homes, destroyed their economy, uprooted hundreds of thousands of income and sustenance producing olive and citrus trees, force them to live as refugees on their own land, deprive them of food, water, and medical care (babies and mums die at Jewish checkpoints because Jews will not let them get to hospitals – it’s all recorded by human rights agencies – and subjected them to the most barbaric, savage, wanton inhuman and despicable treatment and subjugate them to a life of unending hopelessness, misery, suffering, torment and pain under an illegal and brutal military occupation while the world ignores their plight, then it would be Canadians that they would be attacking, it would Canadians that they would despise and hate. If the west starts telling the truth then this will all make sense, and we can put the blame on the zionist Jews where it belongs and stop making the victimized Arabs the victimizers of Jews, and the result would be an end to all the violence.
John Sheehan once said that every time he hears someone say that israel is the only friend the US has in the Middle East, he recalls when before there was an israel, we had no enemies in the Middle East. A French Well, that says it all for me. How about for you? Truth is as truth says.