…Since native protestors began occupying the Douglas Creek Estates development in February, police have been widely accused of turning a blind eye to lawbreakers, including those who dug up portions of the highway with a backhoe, lit tire fires and blocked the road…
…”There were physical assaults taking place in front of you and you can’t do anything about it. The OPP is a joke in terms of Caledonia. It has tarnished our name,” said an OPP officer who spoke to the Star on condition of anonymity…
…In one case, it is alleged more than a dozen officers stood by while two TV cameramen were beaten by protestors, and an elderly couple were swarmed in their car… In a separate clash that night, officers in riot gear arrested but did not charge a group of locals who gathered behind an elementary school backing onto the occupied site…
Find it all: HERE
Ht: Nealenews
crossposted @ cjunk
As Robert J, or should I say Mr. BS has demonstrated – a Liberal is an adult who’s mind was stunted at adolescence.
I wonder where the term ‘Indian giver’ came from? Cliches are truths remembered.
And no Steve duh, this isn’t Mike Harris’ fault – it’s totally McGimpy’s. He’s the wimp who’s afraid to uphold the law because of what happened to Harris. And if a government can’t uphold law and order, it must be thrown out.
You would think that there would be one Police Officer that would take the law into his own rightfully given hands, and enforce the law, and uphold the law, for the people that they are there to represent. How different is this Country than any of the other corrupt dictatorships around the world that tell their police what parts of the law to enforce? When does the old adage, a patriot must always be ready to defend his Country against his Government come into play and to what degree?
Yes Mark, letter posting time, MS, PhD is in Comp Sci, BSc in Physics
Robert J, cut the bull, you will find that a lot of us are highly educated.
Yes, I know that the left tends to paint the lot of us as knuckle dragging RedState/Blue Province retards, but now you know differently.
The Star Article Said:
_____
She said her community is planning to continue claiming land along the Grand River it was given historic title to — a 10-kilometre stretch on both sides of the river, which runs more than 250 kilometres from the Grand Valley/Fergus area south to Lake Erie.
“It’s all ours,” Hill said. “It’s not just Douglas Creek. The whole six miles on either side is ours, for our use and interests, forever.”
______
Forgive me if someone has mentioned this already. I have had a rough morning and have not had a chance to read all the comments.
To me the above sounds like an out and out threat. The Natives said they will go after other land just as they have in Caledonia. If they are a separate nation (as they keep saying), and they are threatening to take Canada’s land, isnt this a threat of war? Is this being taken seriously by anyone? Sounds a bit melodramatic. But atleast this should be taken as a threat that they will do violence to other communities if they do not get their own way.
I don’t know what would it take for the federal government to get involved (as in Armed Forces involvement)? A request from the Provincal level? Could anyone answer this for me from a legal point of view?
its all mike harris’s fault
Posted by: Robert J BA BSc at June 22, 2006 01:18 AM
——
Robert, you mention, natives being forced onto reservations, WWII, lawyers in 1830, natives being force to go to residential schools. And then you end it with “its all mike harris fault”. I am pretty sure Harris was not around for most of these problems, or he was too busy trying to learn how to walk. I love a good debate, but I really dislike debating with people who do not base their arguments on fact, but instead resort to dramatic exclamations just because it is the popular thing to say.
This whole mess points out the internal contradictions inherent in moving away from the priciple of “one law for all” — the principle that earned Alfred,(alone among English kings) the title Alfred “the Great”. The whole reservation system and Indian Act represents an attempt to have just a little bit of apartheid. In a pluralistic democracy, it just can’t be done. Either everyone is equal before the law, or they are not. The natives want to ignore the courts and the paper trail of evidence showing the sale of the land in question. Okay, prove to us that you are a “native” and not just some upstart migrant. What are the criteria? At what point do the offspring of mixed marriages stop being “natives” — 1/2 and 1/2?; 3/4 – 1/4? 7/8 -1/8?. I’ve seen blonde-haired, blue-eyed “natives”; heck I work with a colleague who looks no more native than Winston Churchill (cue the history buffs). He could claim treaty status, but he wants his kids to have nothing to do with it for the same reasons as MaryT’s relative. They want the land for what? — traditional native casinos? The bison are dead. They’re not coming back. The protestors would probably starve to death if they had to live by their horsemanship and skill with a bow. Their pickup trucks would scare the game away. So get over it. It’s 2006. My ancestors were displaced repeatedly. I don’t want their traditional lands back. Get an education, get a job and move forward.
Rob C:
It’s called “Aid to Civil Power”.
A provincial Premier can request the assistance of the federal Armed Forces, for a variety of reasons including natural disasters and armed interventions.
The feds are loathe to act unilaterally, but they can. Far better to get a request for assistance.
Realistically I don’t know how much help is really available. These requests are often filled by reservists, and I know the units in my city, Army and Navy, are down to almost nobody. My unit has barely enough people to keep the door open during working hours. Most are either away training or on full-time callout. (the Naval Reserve is over 70% “activated” right now, likely higher for the Militia) If they called an emergency today, we might get 10-12 people that I would trust with a weapon from my unit. Not much help to the civilian police, is it?
I’m sure it would be a similar situation nation-wide.
That’s what you get after a generation of neglect…
Rob C: involvement by the Canadian Forces in an aid to the civil power operation requires a request from the provincial authority (if I remember correctly, the attorney general — I stand to be corrected) for their intervention. It cannot be undertaken unilaterally by the federal government.
Mad Mike, Perhaps they could call out NDHQ? That is provided they have a latte machine that can work in the field.
This is shades of Katrina where the governor of Louisiana sat on her duff before letting the feds in and Bush ends up being the bad guy. This McGuinty fella seems to be the Nagan of the North. I don’t see this situation getting any better.
The way I heard it PHD = Piled Higher and Deeper. I work with many PHDs and the yhard science gang, not any pseudo-sciences. In general they are all book smart but more than a few have trouble operating a wrench without technologists and technicians to lend a hand.
yo, mark baby,with the MA, gotta agree with the thing about illegally occupying land.
so do tell, when id the DOD going going to vacate the land at ipperwash they siezed over 60 years ago for target practice during WW II?
and speaking of enforcing the law, aint it illegal to sexually assault children like was done an deplorable number of times in hte residential schools?
the rest of your posting is an encouragement of vigilantism. jeepers, looks like the caledonia natives preempted youse on that one !!! good for them !!!
aaaand also dawife: re mike harris’s fault: well, what do you dispute about the enforced reservations, WWII land siezures, etc? if youve got a source contradicting them, lets see it. as far as mikey sixtoes, that was just a snide swipe at the fact he has continued to stonewall on his involvement and meddling in the ipperwash situation. no, it isnt ALL his fault but he’s the one alive now who represents the white middle aged male in power calling the shots.
ya wanna be da boss, ya takes da rap.
p.s. I hold the copyright on the label ‘Dolton McGuilty’ in case anyone is mistaken about my view of liberals.
Indianjunction? In Manitoba?
Who/which party writes the bribery/cheques in Manitoba?
Gary “somebody”. Gary of the NDP? Doer, that’s him. …-
CN Goes To Court To Prevent Native Blockade
CJOB – 2 hours ago
CN Rail has filed legal action in the Manitoba Court of Queen’s Bench seeking a court injunction to prevent First Nations groups from illegally blocking rail lines. The threat has been made in responsible … google news
yo, capt joe.
see, your posting is typical of the tactic used by republicans.
Im not disputing the intelligence of anyone here (that hasnt done that to me first) or elsewhere brandishing letters after their name. but Im not going to silently watch anyone here do that to me, and it was texas canuck who insisted on striking the first blow. got that?? hes the one brought it up and made it personal.
its truly profound how many of the great grey masses lacking letters after their name find it necessary to yammer about ‘piled higher and deeper’. the way I see it ya only get to do that if youve gone thru the hoops yerself. which I have. I do not for instance see a great deal of utility with a sociology degree in the numbers that exist.
on the other hand, J Robert Oppenheimer, Steven Hawkings, and Condollezza Rice all rightfully brandish letters after their name. the tendancy is to BE a notch above the crowd.
anyways, dont see any snarkiness yet about my posting regarding the inner workings of a CPU (here’s a hint: ‘fetch’ cycle, ‘execute’ cycle) aaaaaand no one has claimed the prize by identifying the HARDWARE protocol used by the internet. (hint: seeing as the u/l’s and d/l’s happen from anywhere to anywhere, it must mean the protocol is pervasive)
and speaking of letters after the name, the tendency is also to increase the earnings the more letters. the missus for instance inked a 6 figure contract first time ever back in january. she has MBA after her name.
and out of me and 6 siblings, 5 of us have post secondary, ALL my inlaws and their spouses have university and now the 3rd generation on BOTH sides of my family are following in the footsteps of their parents.
lawyers, technical educators, business owners, not bad for my father, a man who got only as far as grade 4 and had to teach himself how to read. see, the intelligence in my family is a given, the letters are merely the widely recognised symbols.
I agree with texac c on one point, PHDs strong point is the theoretical, not the sleeves-rolled-up practical stuff. book smart, not street smart. its a choice really; if we all lived to be max 200 instead of max 100 then maybe we could do both but time is the limitation.
c’mom texas c o tradesman extraordinaire, have you ever seen a collegue hold a stud finder against a block wall to check for rebar PRIOR to pushing the 4″ bit thru?
Im the first one I know of who did that, back around 1997 on a medical lab we built near toronto.
see, I combine my intuitiveness and inventiveness with the practical day-to-day stuff much to the benefit of all.
what you people want to do is tear down, snipe, and fling caustic as witnessed here.
aaaand also dawife: re mike harris’s fault: well, what do you dispute about the enforced reservations, WWII land siezures, etc? if youve got a source contradicting them, lets see it. as far as mikey sixtoes, that was just a snide swipe at the fact he has continued to stonewall on his involvement and meddling in the ipperwash situation. no, it isnt ALL his fault but he’s the one alive now who represents the white middle aged male in power calling the shots.
Posted by: Robert J BA BSc at June 22, 2006 03:06 PM
————
Rob, it is funny, you are contributing on this blog so you must have seen Kate’s paragraph on the homepage stating:
This is just the voice
of an ordinary Canadian
yelling back at the radio –
“You don’t speak for me.”
Does that not tell you that not everyone agrees with our government. That not everyone thinks the same. Rob, by you stating that Harris represents the middle aged male, you are saying that they are all the same. That is simply not true. That is like saying that all natives sniff glue, which is not true either. One of my best friends is native. She put herself through school on her own, has a couple of kids, a husband, lives in a regular subdivision with a mortgage and no special treatment. She considers herself Canadian. Period.
It is really easy to blame everything on one person isn’t it? Harris was not here when most of this happened as I mentioned before. As we know changes do not happen over night. Keep in mind that there is a province to run and that native issues are just one of the many issues. Goverment bureaucracy is a wonderful thing. It ensures nothing ever gets done. Also how would you make the changes? You can bet that no matter what is proposed someone will always complain and oppose it.
Also,in all this blame, where do the 1st or 2nd generation Canadians come in? Should they be blamed just because they happen to be white, and therefore be responsible for the plight of the native people?
While we are at it, maybe you can help me. I need to find whom to blame my family’s problems on. My grandfather and great-grandfather were killed as enemies of the state when the communists took over Czechoslovakia. Why? Grandfather was a business owner and Great-grandfather was a lawyer. Should I blame the Russian government because they used to be the Soviet Union? They were the ones who had control of my country. Or should I blame the Czech. govt for letting it happen? Or maybe the towns this happened in because the local people and governments did not stop it. Keep in mind that most of the people who did this are no longer alive. So maybe I should blame their children. Once I figure out whom to blame what should I ask for? Will any of it bring them back? My point here is not for you to feel sorry for me. It is to let you know that blame can get out of control very quickly and no amount of blame can change the past. The only thing we can do is work towards positive changes so that it does not happen again in the future. It was a small number of people, in proportion to the general population, that did this to my family. Why hate and blame everyone who happens to fall under the same nationality?
Robert J, why don’t you just grow up and act your age and not your shoe size. To be honest I haven’t been looking at construction sites for people running around with stud finders, nor to I try to impress everyone with how smart I think I am. My actions speak louder than words.
My advice earlier still stands. Seek professional help for that pent up anger.
Moddy, I appologise for continuing to feed the troll and will refrain from now on.
Please leave or we won’t pick up your garbage tomorrow. Tuff talk from Dalt.
The Indians have Dalton over a barrel (cliche).
Please leave. You can have lots more money, too. …-
Ontario Premier to Indians: Please leave Caledonia
It’s time for the long-running aboriginal occupation of a southern Ontario housing development to come to an end because it poses a potential danger to the public, Premier Dalton McGuinty said Thursday. via nealenews
texas c;
“perhaps they could call out NDHQ?” Fer sure!
Ha.
That gaggle of swivel-chair hussars? The Entitlements Dept and the CYA Dept are far too busy writing memos to each other. I’m sure half of them could step through their Friday afternoon tesseract and never reappear, and Hillier would would get along just fine without them.
On second thought, platoons of 3- and 4-ringers, running around in combat boots and lugging weapons, being dressed down by Sergeants, and standing round-the-clock watches would be balm to this old NCO’s soul, indeed.
😉
I only live fifteen minutes from Ipperwash,and I kept up on the incidents that where affecting white residents there.It wasn’t hard for me to listen to mostly retired hardworking people state their concerns and hopelessness when they where handed a land claim, while being harassed by the very people that handed them the claim in the first place.
Imagine pricing a lawyer to fight said land claim while realizing the natives lawyers are being paid by you as well.
Utter lunacy.
Its not much of a stretch putting yourself in the same situation, if you owned land.
Funny part is I’m supposed to feel some sort of compassion for the type of native or anyone else that thinks they are owed something, just because.
I never will , and those of you that weakly stand alongside the “paternal victims”, you have no idea how much of a real victim you could become. yourself.
I’ll never forget seeing law abiding hardworking Canadians stomach the fact,that after working their whole life they are left out in the cold to fight for their property. Not because they where negligent, or lazy but becuase the society they live in has become so weak as to reward unabashed slothfulness.
Too bad I wasn’t a better writer maybe I could convey what I seen on peoples faces. All I know is
its a wonder more natives weren’t shot in Ipperwash, or Caledonia(its not over yet though).
RE: Robert J BA BSc
As an individual with a degree more useful than a BA or a BSc I’d say Robert has found the niche for his egocentrism.
for such a busy and productive man he seems to find plenty of time to post nonsensical arguments.
I’d say he’s probably billing at least $35.00/hour by now?
Robert J. According to the natives this entire country is THEIR land. Therefore do you not consider yourself to be occupying native land? If you own a house here it is on native, so why not return it to them. Guess if you practiced what you preatched you wouldn’t be living in Canada anymore hey?
BYE!!!
It goes to show that common sense cannot be taught. My question, to most of you that realize the native situation and Canada’s approach has not worked, is what do we do now? We are so far down this road, is it even possible to backpedal without committing political suicide? There are alot of educated people on this blog with common sense so I am asking you honestly, can the native situation be changed after years of welfare socialist mentality programming in native reserves?
Lanny: The biggest mistake people can make is to lump all natives into one group, as if they all think the same.
I work with native people and they are very diverse in their opinions on all things. Corruption on reserves is usually their first political concern; from my experience. It’s not land claims. Those in the press do not represent all native opinion anymore than Stephen Harper represents all Canadians in his expressed opinions.
I get a kick out of CBC or APTN native reporters acting as if they are the voice of Aboriginal Canada… that’s like Mike Duffy saying he’s the voice of all Canadians.
Radicals and activists don’t have nearly the support we think they have… but they get the press, and liberal governments have pandered to them.
Headline at Neale news:
OPP Cedes Control of Caledonia Road to Indians
…
SDA Headline: Canada Runs Up White Flag of Surrender. Cowards/Traitors.
Canada cedes Caledonia at the Battle of Caledonia without a shot being fired.
It is not vigilante justice when there is no other justice being done. A vigilante is one that takes the law into their own hands despite there being a formal law authority. Please show the residents of Caledonia where the law is being respected before talking about vigilante justice.
Aren’t you all glad you are not the politicians behind this mess? If you were in office none of you would say kick the indians out because first all of you would worry that you would lose votes, second, you would not want to escalate this incident to become another Oka.
So its nice to complain on this Blog but come on get real, I mean think like a politician for once and come to your senses people
Well, today I took a wander over to the problem zone for an hour, took a few pictures out the window of my truck and got pulled over for my trouble. The boys were very polite once they decided I wasn’t a terrorist or some kind of vigilante nut. Congratulated me on my good sense for not pissing off the Natives by stopping and snapping, said sorry we had to pull you over and that was that.
More excitement than this I do not need. All I can say is, damn good thing my papers were in order.
Important safety tip: don’t have any outstanding tickets or stuff wrong with your insurance if you want to take snaps in Caledonia. Well, unless you’re an Indian I suppose.
Why is this a surprise to anyone?? For years our gov has referred to Indians as “nations” rather than “tribes” (without even a written language) allowing them to swan around the world on the taxpayers’ buck pouring out their stories of terrible abuse and victimization until they started to believe it themselves.
Not everyone in a residential school (words that are supposed to be whispered while hanging head in anguished remorse) were sexually abused and to suggest that is a terrible affront to many of the nuns and priests who genuinely thought assimilation was the best way for natives.
And it is. You can’t have 2 or 3 or 465 “nations” living side by side in one country with one side supporting the other, yet have multiple sets of laws. Doesn’t work. Obviously.
And many of the “treaties” were verbal “my great great great grandmother said we owned Vancouver” or written such as the mention of a medicine chest which liberal judges deemed to mean free health care for all.
We are only reaping what previous liberal govs have sewn. To the detriment of the many hard working tax paying natives who call themselves Canadian.
at the very very least, or worst if you prefer, the natives at caledonia are using weapons, intimidation, force, muscle, and blatant raw power to get what they want. terrorism and vigilantism.
jeepers, kinda like the political bosses have done to THEM for centuries.
its a learned behaviour, reinforced by the fact it works.
and all the hooting about the rule of law is hypocracy if it isnt applied to EVERYONE. and MOST hypocritical when selectively exempted for those who created the friggin laws in the first place.
and note how I dont specifically target anyone else here on the blog, unlike numerous times previously by others about me and my ‘BA BSc’.
etc etc
CN Rail injunction request postponed
WINNIPEG (CP) – A hearing to determine whether CN Rail gets an injunction to stop aboriginals from blocking tracks in Manitoba next week has been postponed.
cnews
stud finders vs troll finders:
LOL !!!
note how the troll employs exaggeration re: ‘running around the construction site with a stud finder’
aaaand HIS actions certainly DO speak louder than the meaning and message in his words; his actions are that of a troll.
and as far as the stud finder, t’was merely a wee sprite of an example of the innovation I employ on any job or task at hand. I carry an approach called ‘is there a better way to do this’. another example is the time we wuz putting prefab units together. hundreds of them. the designer forgot to calculate the fact the air duct intruded on the space above the flourescent fixture right beside one of the vents.
the manly masculine white male response was to smash the shit out of the air duct sose the light fixture could be popped into place.
me with my BA BSc in tow, figured out that no, all we needs ta do is temporarily unscrew the hanger for the tile grid, drop the grid down, pop the light fixture in place from the bottom instead of the top, and then reattach everything. then it fit ok with about 2″ to spare. the air ducts remained intact with no seams busted open following a hammer attack.
no need to use brute force or destroy anything, just brains.
this is my approach, but trolls for example rear up in revulsion at the fact there can actually be other ways of getting the job done oftentimes with vastly superior results in appearance and time saved. they deal with this fact by dismissing any mention of any example and then characterizing it with exaggeration and ridicule, thus showing their profound ignorance of the way life works and willfully missing the point entirely.
I win !!!
mugs:
what ho, natives hiring lawyers??
native communities sending their own best and brightest thru law school??
egad.
reminiscent of the civil war I say, giving firearms to da blacks nebbah know whut dat’s gonna lead to . . .
its called fighting fire with fire.
I salute the natives who learned to FIGHT BACK using all the dirty little tricks used on them for centuries.
lie cheat steal, lie some more, hire a phalanx of lawyers, drag the press in with some sob story, send some tokenists to the world court decked out in feather headdress and leather tassles, all the propaganda tools taught them by the white man.
on and on and on.
myself however, Ive never had trouble with the band communities where I live, they found out loooooong ago which side I was on. I saw Bob Antone go thru school getting the same marks as me trying to fit in the white business-centric system and getting every goddam door shut in his face because he was native.
he shot himself 4 years later because of the hopelessness and huge obstacles in the way of his people bettering themselves; a terrible loss.
Robert it usually is a terrible loss whenever anyone shoots themselves, and they all usually think life sucks as well.
I think you can drop the victim theme I see lots of native lawyers in the Timmies in Forest on break while attending the Inquiry.I’m sure though they don’t work for free, not when there is so much money to be had so easily.
Hers alittle tidbit from an article about The West Ipperwash Land Claim.
“In 1992, the band launched a lawsuit claiming the surrender was not valid because some band members were offered payments to vote for surrendering the land. Band lawyer Russell Raikes argued that constituted a fraud on the rest of the band.”
Now type in Russell Raikes in Google.
You will also notice their isn’t a single native on their team.
You don’t need to apologize Robert I’m used to dealing with people that are legends in their own minds.
Have a nice weekend.
it would appear mugs agrees with me entirely; natives are being admitted to the bar and others are hiring teams of white lawyers to successfully file land claim suits etc.
exactly my point. the natives have finally learned to fight fire with fire. that expression probably came from the practice of burning the grass from around the homestead if you saw a huge cloud of smoke on the horizon: by the time the prairie fire got to your place there was nothing for it to burn and you escaped.
its the scorched earth policy used by the russians against the invading nazis: nothing left for them to live off the land. fight fire with fire, use the SAME weapons as the opponents.
this is what natives are finally doing, both thru the courts and outside the law.
you can apologize now mugs for attempting to wilfully misrepresent my posting.
Im going to mississauga for the wekend for a wedding anniversary to commemorate a ceremony that took place in Philadelphia, the couple, each of whom have letters after their name, have a 1/2 million dollar place in htat city and send their kids to private school.
etc etc
see, the letter do make a difference, for me the difference is that I earned lots during and after earning them I dont have to work my ass off anymore to make ends meet, I can spend time now opining on the web and taking pot shots at trolls and lieberals and republicans and anachronistic socialists that get offended.
RobertJ BA BSc
aaaaand this just in:
ad in hthe local paper showing a hand holding a small feather ‘official court notice’
advising victims of the residential school system to call 1-866-879-4913 or
go to web site http://www.residentialschoolsettlement.ca
YAAuhsss !!!!
fighting fire with fire extraodinaire
Trust me – I went to school right near ipperwash for a while… in a town called forest. I went to school with dudley george’s family. The racism present there was ridiculous.
Let me put it this way – you don’t resist arrest – I know this, its a good way to get shot 🙂
…hey I’ll throw in my letters also:
b-admin, mcse, mct, a+, network+, mous, and journeyman partsman. Going to write my ccna again, failed it 🙁
Oh, forgot, this from a kid who had three more letters growing up – A.D.D.
Are we done with the pee’ing contest?
land was not sold
land was stolen
protest to be heard
Caledonia