Solidarity

99 Replies to “Solidarity”

1. Yo! Bobb-o! Excellent use of canned talking points and bolding. Go to the head of the cut-and-paste class, dude.
   Got a bit of a fixation there, wouldn’t you say? Spending all your waking hours collecting tidbits about Israel and Jews. And then footnoting them.
   Nothing anti-Semitic about that, no siree Bob. Our boy Bob simply has a hobby collecting talking points. Talking points about Jews. About Israel. Pretty common when you think about it. Some people like to collect stamps. Bob likes to collect footnoted references to Jews.
   Could it be that you’re not really human, that your a Bob 9000 crawling the web and collecting these “facts” in the hope of one day becoming the anti-Semitic world’s one-stop shop for crappola?
   Can you put 2 words of your own together, Bob? Why don’t you give us a display of your artificial intelligence?

2. and he still spells his name backwards

3. bob, just confirm our opinion and your beliefs. strap the belt on and kill some jews with your passion.

4. Bob: Mississauga Matt aptly calls your screed “canned talking points.” You doubtless believe they have some veracity and I feel a need to dispel a couple of them.
   Israel once cultivated close ties with apartheid‐era South Africa and aided the white minority government’s nuclear weapons program.
   There were certainly military ties between the two countries. On the other hand, both were bulwarks against the Communist menace at the time and the relationship was primarily geared to address this issue. Think of the US collaborating with the Russians to fight Hitler.
   The “Peter Liberman” in one of your quotes suggests that Israel assisted S.A. with a 1979 nuclear test. It’s only a suggestion because the scientific evidence (of which I have some first hand knowledge) says there was no test. It was most likely a cosmic burst picked up by a US satellite. But rumours are rumours.
   Your quotes are all taken from one source, the recent “Manischewitz-Schlockheim” ISRAEL LOBBY paper. Endnote #1 tells you all you need to know about the authors:
   1 Indeed, the mere existence of the Lobby suggests that unconditional support for Israel is not in the American national interest. If it was, one would not need an organized special interest group to bring it about.
   There’s a lumber lobby, a gun lobby, a “Council on American Arab Relations” lobby. Hold on there boy. We’re talking about the JEWS!
   Hitler used logic just like this.
   Bob, I beseech you to desphincterize your head and get sensible.

5. The fact that the creation of Israel entailed a moral crime against the Palestinian people was well understood by Israel’s leaders. As Ben‐Gurion told Nahum Goldmann, president of the World Jewish Congress, “If I were an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. . . . We come from Israel, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti‐Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that?”37
   …
   Israeli scholarship shows that the early Zionists were far from benevolent towards the Palestinian Arabs.42 The Arab inhabitants did resist the Zionists’ encroachments, which is hardly surprising given that the Zionists were trying to create their own state on Arab lands. The Zionists responded vigorously, and neither side owns the moral high ground during this period. This same scholarship also reveals that the creation of Israel in 1947‐48 involved explicit acts of ethnic cleansing, including executions, massacres, and rapes by Jews.43
   Furthermore, Israel’s subsequent conduct towards its Arab adversaries and its Palestinian subjects has often been brutal, belying any claim to morally superior conduct. Between 1949 and 1956, for example, Israeli security forces killed between 2,700 and 5000 Arab infiltrators, the overwhelming majority of them unarmed.44 The IDF conducted numerous cross‐border raids against its neighbors in the early 1950s, and though these actions were portrayed as defensive responses, they were actually part of a broader effort to expand Israel’s borders. Israel’s expansionist ambitions also led it to join Britain and France in attacking Egypt in 1956, and Israel withdrew from the lands it had conquered only in the face of intense U.S. pressure. 45
   The IDF also murdered hundreds of Egyptian prisoners‐of‐war in both the 1956 and 1967 wars.46 In 1967, it expelled between 100,000 and 260,000 Palestinians from the newly‐conquered West Bank, and drove 80,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights.47 It was also complicit in the massacre of 700 innocent Palestinians at the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps following its invsion of Lebanon in 1982, and an Israeli investigatory commission found then‐Defence Minister Sharon “personally responsible” for these atrocities.48
   …
   Finally, we should not forget that the Zionists used terrorism when they were in a similarly weak position and trying to obtain their own state. Between 1944 and 1947, several Zionist organizations used terrorist bombings to drive the British from Palestine, and took the lives of many innocent civilians along the way.56 Israeli terrorists also murdered U.N. mediator Count Folke Bernadotte in 1948, because they opposed his proposal to internationalize Jerusalem.57 Nor were the perpetrators of these acts isolated extremists: the leaders of the murder plot were eventually granted amnesty by the Israeli government and one of them was elected to the Knsset. Another terrorist leader, who approved the murder but was not tried, was future Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. Indeed, Shamir openly argued that “neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.” Rather, terrorism had “a great part to play … in our war against the occupier [Britain].”58 If the Palestinians’ use of terrorism is morally reprehensible today, so was Israel’s reliance upon it in the past, and thus one cannot justify U.S. support for Israel on the grounds that its past conduct was morally superior.

6. Oh man,we’re in trouble now!!…Someone has developed the “AUTOMATED TROLL!!

7. CUPE and Islamophobia:
   [DOC] CARLETON’S TEACHING ASSISTANTS AND PART-TIME FACULTY
   File Format: Microsoft Word – View as HTML
   Women’s Rights. and Islamophobia. Khadija Haffajee Muslim Activist. Linda Bolton CUPE 4600 Human Rights Committee. Guest CUPE Women’s Task Force …
   4600.cupe.ca/updir/4600/update-w2006.doc –
   INTERNATIONAL WOMEN’S DAY EVENT
   Women’s Rights
   and Islamophobia
   Khadija Haffajee Muslim Activist
   Linda Bolton CUPE 4600 Human Rights Committee
   Guest CUPE Women’s Task Force
   Monday, March 6, 7:00 pm
   401 Dunton Tower
   A public forum hosted by CUPE 4600, the Union of Contract Instructors and Teaching Assistants at Carleton University http://www.4600.cupe.ca
   The university works because we do.
   ……………………………………
   Islamophobia? CUPE? CUPE members: Read a “Tale of Horror”.
   Iranian Dissident’s Tale of Horror
   At Britain’s Sunday Telegraph, a horrific tale from Roya Tolouee, a leading Iranian pro-democracy and women’s rights advocate, who was brutally beaten and raped, and threatened with having her children burned to death in front of her, by a man who said he believed in only two things—Islam and the rule of the mullahs: Dissident tells of assaults and threats against children. (Hat tip: LGF readers.)
   For the first six nights, she was taken to a basement where interrogators demanded that she admit to organising the protests, and also that she identify co-conspirators on a list of names they put to her.
   “When I wouldn’t do what they wanted, they slapped me. But after the sixth night, the routine changed. I was left alone in a small dark room with two men. One was the assistant prosecutor and called himself Amiri. The other had a filthy mouth and said terrible things. They started slapping me again. For the rest of the night they did to me what no woman should ever experience. Amiri said, ‘I’m going to hang you, but before I hang you, I will make an example of you so that no woman will dare to open her mouth here again’.” He then sexually assaulted her.
   When she asked Amiri how he could act like that, he told her that only Islam and clerical rule were important to him. The attack left her badly bruised and bleeding internally, but she refused to sign the papers they put before her. To her assailants’ fury, she demanded to see a lawyer and cited international treaties on human rights.
   The following night they did not sexually molest her again as she was still bleeding – and hence “unclean”. Instead, they told her that they would kill her children by setting them on fire before her eyes.
   Finally, she admits, she cracked. “I threw myself at Amiri’s feet and begged him not to harm my children. I said I’d do anything they wanted. Whatever they wanted, I would sign.” She admitted to conspiring against the regime by giving interviews to the foreign media and leading the protests, but said that she did not implicate others. … via LGF

8. Ok Bob, you’ve finally convinced me. Palestinian terrorism against Israel and anyone else that may have supported or thought of supporting them, is justified. They’ve been treated shabbily.
   Of course this now means that Israeli “terrorism” against the Pals is justified by their collaboration with Hitler in WW2 and centuries of imposed dhimmitude. Come to think of it, when Jews blow up Canada’s houses of parliament, don’t come crying to me. Remember “One Jew is Too Many” – Canada’s WW2 immigration policy. And by the way, your house is probably on native land. You know that about 120% of BC is claimed by aboriginals. It’s going to be a fun century Blob.

9. You think CUPE is bad? Try CIDA – the government agency that is still giving Palestinians money for humanitarian relief.
   Here’s some of that relief (FYI, ‘Right of Return’ = extermination of Israel as a Jewish state):
   The following is the translation of the item in the PA daily:
   “The Ta’awon [co-operation] Youth Forum, in co-operation with the “Badil” Center for Refugee Rights, held a discussion in Hebron under the heading “The role of civilian institutions in protecting the Right of Return”.
   “The convention took place in the framework of the youth inner discussion project, funded by CIDA the Canadian International Development Agency.” [Al-Ayam, May 15, 2006]
   http://www.pmw.org.il/LatestBulletins.htm (nice pics of those poor helpless Palestinians with some German fellow with a funny mustache)

10. Refreshing comments – Waz depressed seeing CUPE-Ontario’s fumbling anti-Jew doings…
    Anyone else notice the “Occupied..Golan” note in their release? Funny how they slip this stuff in. Annexed now, of course. “Israel”. (and World-Class Wine, fabulous wines, btw. Worth twice and thrice the price, many years and varietals can be racked, too. ;-))
    Go here to see or download a stunning video of what Rabin once refered to as “Tank Land”…(admittedly it was a mountain plateau ruin pre-’67): – (you’ll need hi-speed for download) Look for ‘Oz LaGolan’ on the right, and see how Israelis work and live, and what they’ve built in 30 years, and why the Syrians want it given back: –
    http://english.golan.org.il/
    But back on point…So with this position, can we now assume that CUPE-Ontario is supporting the Syrian Regime’s interests, too? Or are they hearkening back a century and a bit, to when ALL of Israel was simply a province of Damascus, and in this way supporting the Ancient Ones (Palestinians)… and hence positing that all Syrians, are really Palestinians?
    Clowns in suits.

11. Seems like nothing gets you neocons frothing at the mouth quicker than the slightest mention of a union. So CUPE is supporting a boycott against Israel. Big deal. They’re not the only organization in the world boycotting Israel. And the economy of Israel is not going to collapse because of CUPE. Perhaps you all should have a nice drink, relax and try to get it into your heads that unless you are a CUPE member, CUPE IS NOT ANSWERABLE TO YOU. Their executive has the right to make stupid decisions and their membership has the right to hold them accountable.
    Once again, ET, you display your lack of knowledge about union matters…yet that doesn’t stop you from being a most prolific poster:
    “…the real issue, which is that a union has no right to take away an individual’s right to make that decision for themselves.” How are they taking away their members rights? Are they going to keep individual members from buying kosher pickles? Individuals make up their own minds about what they want to support. Organized labour usually supports the NDP in an election. Do you actually think that all union members vote NDP just because the union executive says that’s who they should support?
    “…the union is violating my freedom of thought and speech.” How?! Because they have an opinion contrary to yours?
    “A union has no right to debate or make judgments about social, political or legal issues. It has only one mandate; to deal with workplace activities of its members. Period.” Where does it say that? In the NCC agenda book?
    ET:Ignorantia ad infinitum
    Paul from Van writes:
    “..this action was supported by 896 delegates representing 200,000 members but was never put to a vote of the membership itself.” So what? Are you implying that this is undemocratic? Canada has 308 MP’s for 32 million people. Do the MP’s ask everyone in their riding how they should vote in the House of Commons? If they think differently then you, have your “rights” been infringed upon?
    Etc. (I haven’t got all night.)
    Other assorted pearls of neocon wisdom:
    “The union should be de-certified, the leadership deported to the Sudan and never allowed back into the country.”
    “CUPE members: Your union aids and abets Islamist terrorism in Canada. CUPE’s complicity in the “boycott” is a tacit approval of Islamist murderous terrorism in Canada.”
    “The Islamist enemy is within Canada’s gates. CUPE is an ally of the Islamist terrorists.”
    “I think the union hack, Katherine Nastovski, should be forced to serve alongside Israeli police officers on cleanup duty after one of their terrorist heroes self-detonates in downtown Tel-Aviv, ascerting their so-called “right to self-determination”.
    “I’m sure she’d enjoy gathering up Omar’s or Ahmed’s entrails so he can get a proper burial and one-way ticket to Allah’s Virgins O’Plenty Paradise Playground.
    “Just one thing, Ms. Nastovski, make sure all of those juicy guts, fingers and toes are facing Mecca or Allah won’t hear the knock at the door.”
    “strap the belt on and kill some jews with your passion.”
    Hmm…maybe make that a nice drink and a big fattie.

12. Maybe cupe doesn’t answer to me, as a non member, but as a taxpayer I help pay their wages, so they should answer to me and all cdns. The govt has quit funding several terrorist groups, so it could stop funding cupe (wages, benefits, pensions) once it declares it a terrorist organization and charges it with promoting hatred against an identifiable group. Didn’t the ndp push that law. Those 896 members who voted should all be charged with committing hate crimes. There are consequences for actions and we have a new sheriff in town.

13. Yeah, right maryT.
    Just because you pay taxes you think that you can tell public servants how they can spend their wages? It doesn’t sound like the definition of freedom or democracy to me. It’s neocon nuts like you, devoted supporters of Harper, that justify the label “scary.”

14. CUPE has announced its solidarity with “Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades”.
    CUPE members by their silence are in solidarity with “Palestinian Death Cult Lynchings”. …
    Palestinian Death Cult Lynchings
    A story of utterly appalling savagery, as the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades publicly murder two people for “collaborating” with Israel: Al Aksa kills suspected collaborators. (Hat tip: Ethel.)
    Masked Al Aksa Martyrs’ Brigades gunmen on Tuesday publicly executed a Palestinian man and woman they suspected of having spied for Israel.
    The man was shot dead in the main street of a refugee camp, with a large crowd looking on. The woman was later shot to death by her relatives in the courtyard of the West Bank’s largest hospital.
    The Aksa Martyrs’ Brigades, an offshoot of Palestinian Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah movement, accused Jafal Abu Tzrur, 24, of having informed the IDF where to find three of its members. The three were killed by IDF troops during a raid on the Balata refugee camp near Nablus earlier this year.
    Al Aksa gunmen interrogated Abu Tzrur, claimed he confessed and then dragged him into Balata’s main street. As a large crowd looked on, the gunmen threw Abu Tzrur to the ground, witnesses said. When he tried to get up, the gunmen killed him with several shots, the witnesses said.
    The movement said it also killed Odad Abu Mustafa, 27, a Nablus woman. Abu Mustafa was married to one of the Aksa men slain by Israel, and was reportedly having an affair with Abu Tzrur.
    Abu Mustafa, a mother of four, was shot by gunmen and male relatives on grounds that she shamed her clan. More than 15 people took part in the execution, witnesses said. It took place in the courtyard of Raffidiyeh Hospital, the West Bank’s largest.
    The mob originally planned to kill her in the street but were swayed by a man who pleaded with them not to carry out the killing in the view of little children. She was then taken into the courtyard of the hospital, said Yousef Mahmoud, 18, who witnessed the killing.
    “One of the gunmen said ‘where is her brother?’ and when he stepped forward they said to him ‘you know what you need to do,”’ he said. “The brother took out a gun and shot her in the head with one bullet.”
    Mahmoud said the brother then emptied the entire clip into the body of his sister, while the surrounding gunmen fired into the air. He said that the woman remained silent throughout and did not resist her captors.
    Neighbors of the woman said she had four children; two boys and two girls, ranging in age from 11 to three and a half. via LGF
    (Repeated attempts to access cupe.ca website and other cupe websites have failed.)

15. Ibertia – CUPE is answerable to us, the citizens, because it is legally set up as a trade union. A trade union has a specific mandate: which is focused around the conditions of work of their membership. Period.
    It has no right to move out of that mandate and into the political arena.
    Furthermore, it has no right to act as the political voice of its membership. That right belongs to each and every individual member; the union has no right to abrogate that individual voice and assert that its membership is making X-choice.
    As I’ve said repeatedly, I am in favour of a two state solution; and am pro a Palestinian state; I am against very many of the decisions and actions of Israel.
    And, I definitely separate the fascist agenda of Islamic tribalism from the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. They are two separate issues, each with very different causes. Merging them, as has been done recently, is preventing a solution and is actually moving towards one solution – the obliteration of the Palestinian people.
    maz2. You are a great and wonderful resource, but, I question the point of your last post. Are you asserting that because of a primitive tribal ideology within one clan, that Palestinians should be denied the opportunity to a state, and to move out of tribalism? That would be like saying that the lifestyle practices of a sect of polygamists in Western Canada preclude Canadians having a democratic state.

16. Trudeau: CUPE’s hero/mentor/role model.
    Trudeau: Anti-semite.
    Fascist/Communist.
    Separatist.
    CUPE’s PET: Trudeau. Not Dead Enough(H/T SDA)…
    Young Trudeau: Fascist, anti-Semite, and separatist
    A new book on the late prime minister’s early years casts a deep shadow over Canadians’ popular image of the liberal, enlightened statesman, Robert Sibley writes.
    ottawa citizen

17. More for “neocon” lberia: CUPE aids/abets criminals/terrorists. …
    Abbas Names Top Fugitive As Security Head
    Terrorist thugs pretending to be a government: Abbas names top fugitive head of Force 17
    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas decided on Tuesday to appoint a security officer who had been accused by Israel of involvement in terrorist attacks as overall commander of his Force 17 “presidential guard” in the West Bank.
    The decision to appoint Col. Mahmoud Damra, also known as Abu Awad, comes only days after Israel agreed to provide weapons and ammunition to Force 17 following increased threats on Abbas’s life.
    PA officials told The Jerusalem Post that Abbas approved the appointment of Damra in a presidential decree issued just before he left Ramallah for Tunis. They confirmed that Damra was on Israel’s list of wanted terrorists, but claimed that the charges were “baseless.”
    “Damra is a senior Palestinian officer who was very close to the late Yasser Arafat,” said one official. “He did have a role in the revolution and in the struggle against Israel, like most Palestinians. But today he is committed to the peace process and he supports President Abbas.”…
    LGF

18. “And, I definitely separate the fascist agenda of Islamic tribalism from the Palestinian-Israeli conflict”
    ET, how exactly is the agenda of the Arabs of Palestine not fascist Islamic tribalism?
    If CUPE’s announcements on foreign affairs are only condemnations of Israel and factually incorrect, then their motives are clear. Especially when they preface their statements with, “we aren’t anti-Jewish . . .”
    Isn’t Jordan a state for the Arabs of the British Mandate for Palestine? When Judea and Samaria were part of Jordan between 1948 and 1967, why weren’t the ancient Palestinians calling on Jordan and the rest of the world to recognize their right to an independent state?
    Being anti-Israel goes hand-in-hand for most people with being knee-jerk anti-American and anti-capitalism.

19. ET:
    Where does it say that a union cannot voice its opinion on political matters? Is that in the Criminal Code or the Charter? Calling for a boycott of Israel is not against the law and unions can support whatever they want as long as it is NOT AGAINST THE LAW. Guess what? Unions can also give money to charities of their choice, they can organize picnics for their members and they can march in parades. Get over it.
    If the CUPE membership disagrees with boycotting Israel, then it is up to them to change that. The only “law” that a union can force it’s members to abide by is the collective agreement. Get a grip on yourself and stop spreading nonsense.

20. ex-liberal – I don’t see the point of getting into this discussion with you. You suppport Israel totally. I don’t. I don’t think we are going to persuade each other of the validity of each other’s perspective!
    Sorry, but I don’t correlate being anti-Israel with anti-Americanism and anti-capitalism. The three entities are not connected and there is no logical or empirical way that you can connect them.
    I’m pro-America and pro-capitalist. As for Israel, I’ll agree with its ‘right to exist’ but I strongly disagree with its tactics, both in origin and at present, and its rejection of the rights of Palestinians.
    Fascism among Islamists has to do with a tribal political and social infrastructure operating within a population that is too large for tribalism and in an industrial rather than agricultural economy. Tribalism is a mode of social and political organization only suitable for medium size populations (in the hundred thousands not millions) and most certainly, not suitable for an industrial economy.
    The growth of fascism in the ME is the result of the conflict between a tribalist ideology (which Islam certainly is) in conflict with a political and economic reality that has developed over the past few decades (growth of millions in population and industrialism).
    That has nothing to do with the territorial and land claims of a dispossessed people, the Palestinians. It is an error, I feel, to merge the two issues.

21. Iberia – I don’t think we are going to get anywhere with this. You repeatly claim, along with personal insults (why do you lower yourself to such tactics?) that unions can do whatever they want, they can move into the political domain and so on. Your other examples of union activities are trivia.
    Just because something is not specifically outlawed by legislation does not mean that it is morally, ethically, politically, socially, valid or right.
    A union is a trade union. Its mandate refers only to the work-related activities of its members. Period. It has no ethical, moral or social right to, as that collective membership, move into the political arena. Those decisions belong only to individual members, not to the union.
    Again, whether or not such activity is legislated against, does not mean that such an activity is just, ethical, moral, fair, etc, etc. My view is that a union has no business making political statements. It is unethical.

22. “The three entities are not connected and there is no logical or empirical way that you can connect them.”
    ET, I am not saying that they are connected, I am only making the observation that people who are anti-American tend to be anti-capitalist and anti-Israel. I can’t help it, it just is.
    I would say that I am pro-truth – if that makes me pro-Israel, so be it.
    How does Israel “reject the rights of the Palestinians”? In recent history, Barak offered them practically every thing they wanted and Sharon (as are most Israelis and Jews) for 2 states. The Jews accepted this in 1948. The Arabs did not. Isn’t it sort of the Arabs who reject the rights of the Jews?
    How is okay for Arabs to demand that Judea and Samaria be free of Jews for their new state to exist? Isn’t this kind of fascist (or just sick)?
    Israel is fighting the same enemies as the United States in the war on terror. Al Qaida = Islamic Jihad = Muslim Brotherhood = Al Aqsa Martyrs brigades = Hamas etc
    Israel is our ally in the war on terror
    Or there is the Bob perspective – if there was no Israel there would be no problems – hmmm what to do about the Israel problem?

23. ET:
    “YOUR” view. Exactly.

24. Exactly, iberia. Unions have no right to make political statements; their mandate is limited to the work place of their members. That’s my view. Your view is that unions can make political statements. I reject that. End of story.

25. Iberia writes:
    “Paul from Van writes:
    “..this action was supported by 896 delegates representing 200,000 members but was never put to a vote of the membership itself.” So what? Are you implying that this is undemocratic? Canada has 308 MP’s for 32 million people. Do the MP’s ask everyone in their riding how they should vote in the House of Commons? If they think differently then you, have your “rights” been infringed upon?
    Etc. (I haven’t got all night.)
    Other assorted pearls of neocon wisdom:”
    Hmmm, so now everyone who disagrees with the union’s position is a neocon. Good tactic. If you can’t refute someone’s position then insult them. There’s an obvious difference between my MP taking a political stance and my union taking a political stance. When I elect my MP it is for the very purpose of taking a political stance. That’s his job. When I elect my union executive I elect them to represent me with my employer. That’s his job. I would have thought that was obvious. For the record, I am not anti-union I think they serve an important role when they stick to their job.

26. When did I insult you ,Paul? I never called you a neocon, and in anycase, neocon is not an insult.
    Unions get involved in politics because they have to: everything is political. Look at the mentality of the people who oppose unions. “Gov’t should decertify them,” “they should be illegal,” etc.
    In my opinion,calling for a boycott of Israel is stupid, but that is CUPE’s business, and their membership can take them to task for it if they want.

27. Off topic… so have to mention CUPE; here’s a message for CUPE:
    CUPE says: Kyoto is about clean air, clean water and workers taking back our communities
    May 4, 2004 … cupee.ca (Librano$ Maurice Strong is choking on his own CO2) $$$
    Kyoto is daid…
    Western premiers drop Kyoto
    Canada.com – 4 hours ago
    GIMLI, Man. – Canada’s Western premiers endorsed a made-in-Canada approach to deal with climate change on Tuesday without even a mention of the country’s pledge to the Kyoto accord. The decision is seen as … googlenews

28. Iberia:
    Neo-con? Neo-liberal? I’m curious: I’ve started to see the use of the latter term as a pejorative by you Bolsheviks and Totskyites.
    When do you decide to use one as opposed to the other?
    Anyone else see this?

29. Allen, the wall doesn’t keel Israelis safe. It further divides the rich from the poor, and creates a more imbalanced society with more willing bombers. How well did that Berlin wall work after all?

30. Memo: To CUPE, TO, Ontario.
    Send your sludge to Israel. Them will turn it to gold. $$$
    Toronto’s sludge not welcome in Michigan
    TORONTO (CP) – A Michigan landfill site is turning up its nose at Toronto’s treated sewage sludge. via cnews

31. The Berlin Wall was not built for security i.e. to keep killers out.

    I believe it was built to keep the East German people in and for that it worked very well.

32. For every Jewish person killed 10 PLO die(Over 20,000 to date). I don’t even think the Jewish people belong in Isreal. They’re white most of them. The Arabs at least look like they belong.
    Just a thought. There is no such thing as a chosen people. It’s Dogma.

33. ok4ua said: “It’s Dogma.”
    It’s ok4ua, dogma, Presbys, and CUPE: Allied with Islamist terrorist murderers. …
    Presbyterian Terror
    Jewish Press ^ | May 31 2006 | Robert J. Avrech
    Posted on 05/31/2006 5:05:50 PM PDT by Presbyterian Reporter
    …… Which leads us to the Presbyterian Church USA (PCUSA). Two years ago PCUSA passed a resolution calling for “phased, selective divestment in multinational corporations operating in Israel.” Apparently, this was not a resolution called for by the rank and file of the church, but by a number of radical left leaders.
    Not content with the classic leftist divestment tactic, elements of PCUSA, from the Chicago Middle East Task Force, met with leaders of the terrorist organization Hizbullah in Lebanon.
    Hizbullah, of course, is funded by Iran, does not recognize Israel’s existence, and is sworn to “the destruction of the Zionist entity.” Hizbullah occupies southern Lebanon and has a vast army there with miles of elaborate bunkers and a huge arsenal of rockets trained on Israel’s major cities. Naturally, the fine folks of Hizbullah are Holocaust deniers (as are official state-sponsored Arab media in every single Arab country).
    In 1994 there was a massive blast in the Jewish Community Center in Buenos Aires. One hundred Jews – men, women and children – were slaughtered, two-hundred and fifty gravely wounded. This terrorist atrocity was financed by Iranian intelligence and carried out by Hizbullah operatives.
    The Argentine government recently released details of its investigation into another terror incident: the bombing of the Israeli Embassy on March 17, 1992, in which thirty people were killed and more than two hundred wounded. That bombing was also conducted by Iranian intelligence services, with Hizbullah playing a key role in its execution.
    The Iranians are also responsible for designing and building the roadside bombs that are killing American soldiers in Iraq right now.
    These are the people PCUSA has climbed into bed with. This is the organization PCUSA has aligned itself with: a notorious terrorist gang that kills Jews and Americans.
    At a certain point, naive peaceniks cross a line and become terrorist enablers. The good news is that Kathy Leuckert, deputy executive associate director of the General Assembly Council, and Peter Sulyok, coordinator of the Advisory Committee on Social Witness Policy, were notified that they were no longer employed by the Presbyterian Church (USA). …
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641475/posts

34. ok4ua
    didn’t more Germans die than Allied forces in WWII – is this really a measure of right and wrong? of which side you should support?
    have you ever heard of the 800,000 Jewish refugees from Arab lands? google it.
    I guess you have never been to Israel. If you had you would see that Jews come in all sizes, shapes, colors, nose shapes, hair textures.
    yes ok4ua, there are black Jews and Indian Jews and European Jews and Jews who look just like Arabs. Israel is actually a nation – it is not a race. And anyone can CHOOSE to join up and be a Jew, it is not exclusive, you just have to agree to follow the laws.

35. FYI SonsofMonkeysandSwine:
    Neocon: interventionist with hawkish views on foreign policy. Supporters define it as advocating the use of military force, unilaterally if necessary, to replace autocratic regimes with democratic ones.
    Neolib: a political-economic philosophy that de-emphasizes or rejects government intervention in the domestic economy. It focuses on free-market methods, fewer restrictions on business operations, and property rights. In foreign policy, neoliberalism favors the opening of foreign markets by political means, using economic pressure, diplomacy, and/or military intervention.
    Not much of a difference.

36. Ex-liberal:
    No, ok4ua has not been to Israel. If he has, he would have known that there are also many “white-looking” Arabs with light hair and blue eyes and even those who live there often cannot tell apart a Jew from an Arab themselves. But what a marvelous idea – just resolve the whole Middle East crisis by weeding out the wrong-colored people!
    Saskboy:
    you haven’t been to Israel either, have you? The wall keeps the rich from the poor? Is it your assumption that somehow all palestinians are poor while all israelis are rich? You should check out the neighbourhoods on both sides of the wall – you may be very surprized.
    RK

37. What is the neo-position/policy of neo-CUPE on neo-Holocaust denial? On neo-nazis? On neo-historical revisionism?
    Isn’t neo a malleable word/prefix? Neo-Nazi, neo-Communist, neo-Socialist. Neo..new… what’s new? Quid nunc? Neo-neo? .
    Why the neo-Nazis salute Iran’s President
    The Spectator (U.K.) ^ | 06/03/06 | Allister Heath
    Posted on 06/01/2006 5:55:50 AM PDT by Pokey78
    Hjalmar Schacht, the Nazi economics minister, had many unusual interests but one was especially telling. He was fascinated with the theory, famously enunciated by King Darius the Great, that the Persians were of Aryan lineage, and argued that this made them the Nazis’ natural allies. So when in 1935 Shah Reza Pahlavi renamed his country Iran, which means Land of the Aryans in Farsi, he helped seal a pivotal alliance.
    Seventy years later a shared anti-Semitism has spawned a new entente between Germany’s now thankfully small band of neo-Nazis and Tehran. Nazi thugs have promised to march in support of Iran at the Iran–Mexico World Cup match in Nuremberg on 11 June. In return, Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad chose an interview with the German media at the weekend to question once more the reality of the Holocaust, and to say that if it did really happen, the Jews should be removed from Israel to Europe.
    Given Ahmadinejad’s view that Israel must be ‘wiped off the map’, it is no surprise that he is being feted as a hero by Nazis, racists and even white supremacists. But it is not only the Jews who need fear Ahmadinejad; a sinister crackdown on all of Iran’s religious minorities is gathering pace. Non-Shia Muslims have long been treated as second-class citizens by the Islamic Republic, discriminated against in education, government jobs and services, banned from serving in the military, and their public religious expression severely restricted; now they are positively under siege. It is a story that has gone unreported in Britain but which confirms the monstrous nature of a regime that could soon have access to nuclear technology.
    Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, head of the Guardian Council, recently described non-Muslims as ‘sinful animals’ and ‘corrupt’. After criticising him, the only Zoroastrian member of parliament (there are 22,000 Zoroastrians in Iran) was charged with the ‘dissemination of false information, slander and insult’. …
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641682/posts

38. CUPE? Canadian Union of Public Employees? ???
    PA cartoon depicts Palestinian child urinating on Statue of Liberty
    Posted by finnman69
    On 06/01/2006 9:03:12 AM PDT · 13 replies · 366+ views
    Palestinian Media Watch ^ | 5/31/06 | Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook
    This current issue of the Hamas weekly has a cartoon of a Palestinian child urinating on the Statue of Liberty, which is holding a book labelled “Democracy”. This expression of utter disdain for the US and its democracy follows other recent slurs in the PA media. For example, the West was condemned in March at a Palestinian rally: “for many years of trying to penetrate Islamic youth with dubious things such as the ideas of democracy.” [Al Hayat Al Jadida, March 4, 2006] Background Brief: Denigrating the Statue of Liberty in PA Cartoons: Visual and verbal attacks on US symbols…
    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1641795/posts

39. I have serious concern that these union members – government employees- unanimously adapted such a one-sided and bias political resolution. How do I know that they are not biased when they provide government services- immigration, law, taxation, custom, etc. In significant number of circumstances there is room for a discretion left to a public server. How do I know that they don’t exercise their bias routinely while exercising their job responsibility?
    My another concern is that union has a significant say in the government hiring process. It is very difficult for a government to hire someone who is not a union member. With the union promoting certain political ideas, I am not surprise that this resolution has been adopted unanimously – every one with different political ideas is apparently outside of this union. In case of public servants the union should be completely remove from the hiring process.
    I also don’t understand this thing with the refugee’s right of return. Why CUPE is not supporting right of return and compensation for Jewish refugees …and why CUPE has never defined Arab wars against Israel as illegal. The wars that resulted in the occupation. Or why CUPE has never defined Arab’s refusal to sign a piece treaty with Israel as illegal as it’s contributed and prolonged the occupation.

40. Gary writes:
    “My another concern is that union has a significant say in the government hiring process. It is very difficult for a government to hire someone who is not a union member.”
    Wrong. You don’t have to belong to a union in order to be hired. Check out the job postings on the jobs.gc.ca website…no requirement to belong to a union. Furthermore, the union cannot hire, fire or discipline employees. That is management’s job.
    “In case of public servants the union should be completely remove from the hiring process.”
    Union delegates sometimes sit on hiring boards to ensure that a fair procedure is followed and that there is no favoritism. That’s a good thing, isn’t it?

41. Gary :
    Good questions all!!! lberia is just what we labours call a salter. Hes here to stomp any anti Union feeling. Than ad half truths, too real problems.Typical lefty tactics.

42. I would just like to point out that Sid Ryan was stupid enough to post his cell phone number on the Anti-Israel press release. You can contact him and let him know that he is an idiot at: Sid Ryan, President, CUPE Ontario, 416-209-0066 (cell0. Ask him as a Hamas supporter under what circumstances suicide bombing is politically justified in a democracy.

43. 1000 dead jews per year to 20,000 plo dead per year. I guess that’s fair. Jews claim to be a Race of people who are entitled to live in the holy land. I don’t believe it I think it’s a bunch of Bullshit. I don’t hate the Jewish nation I just wonder why they think they own the holy land. Their bible says so that makes it so? Not to me it doesn’t. I’m commited not to believe in any kind of god or race of people who think a god favours them. Japan comes to mind or Nazi Germany? Weren’t they religious states? I could name a few others like the USA. It’s run by religious pius kooks who think they’re superior to the rest of the world. Bible shcool? Reform school? They’re the same. JEw, gentile, Arab ??? Who’s to blame?

44. ok4ua:
    Jews think they own the holy land? Do you even know the history of the jewish people..what they’ve withstood over centuries of anti-semitism. It hasn’t been a easy road. For the first time in the Jews’ existence, they can actually say that they have some real power– an army to defend itself and a nation to protect. Not bad for a country of six million and a Jewish nation of 12 million (+/-) worldwide.
    The fact is, many Palestinians don’t want two states living side by side but one Palestinian State (sans Israel or a Jewish majority). This hatred of the Jews is taught in their schools, displayed on their national blem and promoted in their media. If Israel feels it has to protect itself by building a wall, then I’m all for it. This isn’t about separating the rich from the poor; it’s about preserving a people and a nation.

45. It’s been a hard road for a lot of nations. The Armenians,The Poles,Russia etc etc. My family were immigrants and it was hard when they had to leave Russia to come to Canada. The right of Isreal is in the bible. A book written by Jewish writers. Just a little bias. It’s all a crock.

46. ok4ua,
    so some really smart Jews wrote “the book of books”, the book that gave rise to both Christianity and Islam, the book that lays the foundation for equal rights before the law, the sanctity of each life, literacy, the weekend. You really think that a couple of Jews just got together and put this book together and then conspired to get all their friends to follow the laws that restrict their lives. Wow you have some pretty weird ideas about Jews

47. The real questions are: Where did this hate come from within CUPE for Israel? Who are the names of the memnbers that spearheaded this boycott? What connection if any to they have to Hamas? Are any of the members connected to or have any contact with radical Islamic groups? The answers might be surprising.

48. To ex liberal.The Book of Mormon comes to mind. People will do a lot of bad things in the name of god. Jewish people included. All religions are man made. There is no proof of devine intervention. Only the founders of religions claim that.

49. Brian, right on! What makes Israeli-Palestinian situation so special to these particular CUPE leaders that they have to devote their time to this topic when what they really are – a trade union? How ridiculous is it that they feel they must EDUCATE everyone about nonsense like “apartheid state ”etc.? What I want to know is WHO ARE GOING TO BE THESE EDUCATORS talking to the members? I am sure that’s the real connection Hamas. Basically they needed a cover-up for brainwashing of the public mission and they got it. It is pretty obvious if you read this, as well as if you check the responses from various terrorist organizations to CUPE websites, their applauds and congratulations.
    Full Text of the Resolution Below:
    CUPE ONTARIO WILL:
    1. With Palestine solidarity and human rights organizations, develop an education campaign about the apartheid nature of the Israeli state and the political and economic support of Canada for these practices.
    2. Support the international campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self- determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law including the right of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution194.
    3. Call on CUPE National to commit to research into Canadian involvement in the occupation and call on the CLC to join us in lobbying against the apartheid-like practices of the Israeli state and call for the immediate dismantling of the wall.
    BECAUSE:
    – The Israeli Apartheid Wall has been condemned and determined illegal under international law.
    – Over 170 Palestinian political parties, unions and other organizations including the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions issued a call in July 2005 for a global campaign of boycotts and divestment against Israel similar to those imposed against South African Apartheid;
    – CUPE BC has firmly and vocally condemned the occupation of Palestine and have initiated an education campaign about the apartheid-like practices of the Israeli state.