This environmentally friendly moment brought to you by the Toronto Transit Union.
(photo credit – SDA reader NCF TO)
89 Replies to “Yonge Street, May 29”
Here’s another example of what ET calls a “neat corporation”. CUPE, is Canada’s largest union (that would like to bring you a monopoly of Day Care) is now dabbling with what should be debated in Parliament rather than brought to its membership by prejudiced union thugs. http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8ab8ed08-42c0-4150-99db-14df1dff31b1&k=61344
The money quote:
“Steven Schulman, Ontario regional director of the Canadian Jewish Congress, called the vote “outrageous.”
“For a respected labour union to engage in such a vote, which is completely one-sided and based on mistruths, is shocking,” he said.
He charged that CUPE Ontario’s press release about the vote “reads like a piece of propaganda.” He said Israel has recognized the Palestinian right to self-govern and has been engaged in a peace process.”
What on earth does this have to do with the daily life of a diversified work force? This is hysterical propaganda out of a Marlon Brando movie in the 1950’s. Unions belong in another era.
Um, Steve, leaving aside the “right-wing media” howler, the union and their lawyer, if they’re still sticking to the lock-out story, are lying.
It wouldn’t be the first time for a union and a lawyer to do so, and it certainly won’t be the last. In fact, it’s what they both do best.
“No media has gone to ask the obvious questions eminating from that lawyers statement.” Not sure what those obvious questions are, aside from “what in the hell are you smoking?”
But tell you what: why don’t you slip on the old fedora, stick a Press card in the brim, and go show the right-wing media what investigative journalism is all about.
What the hell does the Taliban have to do with a TTC wildcat strike?
Or, Steve D, are you aware of some connection we all need to know about?
Of course the lawyer said it was a lockout. Just like Miller and the Red Star said it was a wildcat strike. Who is correct? The lawyer?
“Right Wing Media”. New readers, don’t scroll backwards to read the original comment unless you’ve emptied your bladders first!
Iberia,
Your post describes how a union ought to operate not how it does in fact operate. Your point that the members do have the right to elect an new executive every few years is accurate. However, it practice it is very difficult to kick out the old guard. It’s a lot like shareholders trying to lead a revolt to elect directors other than the slate proposed by management.
I found the following article on Neale News, which illustrates how the “democracy” of a union operates in parctice:
“Ontario wing of Canada’s largest union to boycott Israel
The Ontario wing of Canada’s largest union has voted to join an international boycott campaign against Israel “until that state recognizes the Palestinian right to self-determination.”
The gist of the article is that the Ontario wing of CUPE representing over 200,000 members voted to boycott Israel until it recognizes Palestine’s right to self determination (no mention of a boycott of Iran over it’s non recognition of Israel’s right to self determination, but I digress). Did everyone vote? No, only the 896 delegates at the meeting. Democracy indeed!
I thought all residents of TO were concerned about the air quality of said city. Too many smog days so stop the pollution, (from other Provinces only) Guess all those in TO will have to hold their breath at least 10 minutes/hour to clean the air of all the increased emmissions from cars. And, all Kyoto supporters say, take public transportation. At least one can depend on their car to get to work. Time for class action suits against unions for lost profits, non-smoking groups for lost profits, protestors of whatever cause, for damages, inconvienience and pain and suffering. That would be a start to get common sense back into our daily lives. Pass a law, and enforce it, that any illegal strike will result in huge fines and an equal number of days in jail that you were on stike. The nurses union in BC and AB both were punished severly for illegal strikes. Lets ban all labor unions.
ATU North America’s Transit Union
Strike Watch: updated 5/26/06:
• Toronto: Janitorial shift changes could provoke ATU action
International Headquarters
5025 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016 – http://www.atu.org/
Aunty-American speaks again:
At the end of her comments, after most of the cameras were turned off, [ex-Liberal MP] Parrish said, “Damn Americans … I hate those bastards.” … (Filter on?) Carl was referring to the late James Hoffa, Sr. Dig?
Hey boys and girls!
Yonge Street looks like that most mornings! I drove my wife to and from work at Bloor and Bathurst today from west Toronto and the trips might have been 2.3 minutes longer than usual. The really tough trips were north/south where people opt for transit, but have cars. The people really screwed were people without cars (the poor, the elderly) in 34 degree heat. I have some sympathy for drivers who are attacked by young urban youth in “fare disputes”. The cleaners who have to work nights will likely be supplied with nannies to help them through the experience.
Andy
Yes, us non-unionized country folk are looking real stupid now…
Who was that who mentioned “free fares” on buses? It’s company policy in Vancouver that nobody has to pay to ride the bus.
Matt
Lookouts don’t exist i suppose. Lockouts are a union plot i suppose. Hmmm, let me guess, you are right wing.
Management has never, and will never be wrong about anything. This goes double if there is a union involved. Is that about right, Mr.Rightwing? What a surprise.
steve – here’s a quote from the Red Star
“In one extreme incident, passengers were ordered off a Don Mills Ave. bus when it stopped at Finch. A union representative boarded the bus, ordered the passengers off and instructed the driver to return to base and park the vehicle.
The wildcat strike continued when the union defied a labour board cease-and-desist order, issued at 7:30 a.m., requiring TTC workers to report for work immediately. ”
The workers were NOT locked out. They struck. Illegally. On the orders of the union management. The city had to go to the Ontario Labour Relations to get them to issue a ‘back to work’ order. If the city had ‘locked out’ the workers, then, why would it go to the Labour Relations board to get a back-to-work order??? THINK.
steve – you ask some questions:
‘If you want to know what the Taliban are thinking, do you ask Bush’? etc.
OK. Then, why do you constantly inform us that YOU KNOW what Harper is thinking? Is it the case that
‘If you want to know that Harper is thinking, then, you ask steve d’.
Hmmm? That’s what megalomania or narcissistic conrol means; it means that the individual feels he has to control the world, and one aspect of his ability to control, is ‘knowing’ what every powerful person is thinking. Like you know what Harper is thinking. What Bush is thinking. hmmm
Iberia – so what if elections are held every few years? The union executive is still unaccountable to the people who use the services provided by the workers. We transit riders don’t get to hold the union to account. We get to hold the gov’t, who manages the transit, to account. But, we don’t get to hold the union to account.
And, no, it’s only a legal strike that is voted on. This was illegal. But, no union worker dares to disobey, or the union will ensure that he’ll lose his job.
Again, unions are parasites. They are shadow management. They get their money off the wages of the workers. The do ZILCH for the workers, except take their salaries. Negotiations? Increase the salaries? That’s all. It hardly takes much time or work energy to come up with a negotiationos package to ‘increase salaries and benefits and lower work requirements’.
You get a higher salary? So what? That means that you just pay more in taxes, and MORE IN UNION DUES. Your net goes DOWN. And, with union costs, the cost of services and goods increases. So, financially, unions in our modern age, decrease the financial power of workers.
Who benefits from unions? The union managment. It’s a unique type of ‘business’ corporation. It provides no services, no goods. It has no competition. All it does, is sit down at the negotiation table every few years and insist on MORE. More salary, more benefits. Period. In between, the union management busies itself with what? Informing its members who to vote for in federal elections? How dare they. Meddling in politics? How dare they interfere with each person’s right to think for themselves.
Remember, in our modern world, most pre-union and early-union services are now provided by the gov’t. Not by the union.
Scrap unions and give financial and operational power back to the workers. Take it away from these fraudulent corporations, Unions.
Steve, lockouts DO exist. But this isn’t one – everyone except the lying lawyer and lying union head recognize that. Why can’t you?
Kindness amidst rider outrage
Toronto Star – 9 hours ago
Secret routes? Acts of commuter kindness? Need a place to vent?
Tell us your stories from the TTC walkout.
The solution has been staring us in the face for a long time. The TTC can no longer be adequately funded by government support alone. …
google news
Matt
Everyone in management or otherwise in authority is in agreement, the union is wrong.
My take is that there is two sides to every story and we have not yet heard the other side.
So lets hear the other side before we convict them shall we? Even a murder gets to defend himself. Why not a union? There’s a new concept!
Andy at 7:00pm – you are full of crap. Toronto does not look like that every morning. Commute times were not 2-3 minutes different. Lying is a horrible way to try to score ideological points.
Stevie, you have anything to offer except slurs? Bueller?
Everything I heard on the radio, tv, media, interviews says this was a wildcat strike and not a lockout. So is there any fact you have to offer at all in defense of your conspiracy theory.
capt joe
what does the union say?
Again: What exploitation justified unionization of monopoly providers of public services? At least private sector union members are disciplined to some extent my market forces, i.e., if too unreasonable they could assist the competition kill off their employer and hence their jobs.
Hey, according to this article the union asked the strikers to return to work. http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060529/transit_strike_toronto_060529/20060529?hub=TopStories
“Without reaching an agreement, ATU president Bob Kinnear ordered union members to return to work at around 3 p.m. His decision was prompted by the ATU’s failure to get the Ontario Labour Relations Board to quash the back to work order.”
and at CBC : http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/29/ttc-back.html
“The union had been told in two rulings from the Ontario Labour Relations Board on Monday that its walkout was illegal.”
If it was a lockout, then why is the Union asking people to return rather than management. Sorry, I just don’t see your case has any evidence at all. Unless you think the CBC is run by radical right wingers?
ET
You should know that the “red star” stops being red when the word “strike” is printed. Then they become your basic aristocratic upper class rag.
I know what Harper is thinking because he is an individual, public, has a long public history, gets a lot of press(even though he claims to distrust the media), his agenda is public, his actions are well covered in the MSM and blogesphere.
The Taliban, not so much, except the mantra that they are the bad guys. But that doesn’t tell me much. I know they were strict, but so are other governments. I know Bin Laden was there. But the USA has a terrorist who is accused of downing a passenger jet flying between Venesuela and Cuba and they don’t want to give him up for prosecution. So Afghanistan a sovereign country was invaded to “bring Bin Laden to justice” well, not really but its a good line. Then it was sovereign Iraq’s turn because well, you know,… next?…Iran?…Venezuela?…Cuba?…Bolivia?…
I don’t think Bush is a meglomaniac but I’ve been wrong before.
There are a lot of things that are beyond your control, unions are just one. Get used to it or get an analyst, or see your analyst more often.
The unions are losing their power don’t worry. They are only about 12% of the work force, even less in the USA. We are in a global race to the bottom on wages or didn’t you hear the news? In North America the workers are working harder than ever in history and still managing to spend more than they earn. Stay tuned.
I used to go to Human Resources and Development website to see the difference between unionized and non-union in the same fields. The union workers always made about $5 more than the non-union. The difference between paying your bills and not. Well, now its pretty much not. Stay tuned.
Hey NCF TO at 9:35 pm:
I didn’t say Toronto was like that, just that part of Yonge. I didn’t say all commute times were 2 – 3 minutes longer, just that mine were 2.3 minutes longer – the point being that within the city, things were fine. The big point is that we’re in pretty good shape, even with the odd strike. Look at Cairo, where the population density is 34,000 people per km2, compared with Toronto’s pretty lame 3,900 people per km2. There, they have real problems. And … I don’t have an ideological point. I just live here and work it out like anybody else!
Andy
the first thing I noticed in the picture was all the haze in the horizon. then the proliferation of cars emitting their exhaust adding to the haze.
sign of the times folks, sign of the times !!
Stevie, I responded but the response seems to have gotten stuck in moderation. I guess it was the quoting of the CBC that got it subjected to special attention (Just kidding, Kate).
I think your point about wages is specific to niche industries. It certainly isn’t true of mine.
Speaking as someone who works in the computer field, I make way more money than friends who work for the government (since that is the only place where IT is involved with unions). The IT industry is a meritocracy (at least where I am). The more skilled you are the more you get.
capt joe
yeah well, keep your skills up. The only people who appear to be safe are the highly skilled whose physical presence is necessary to get the job done. Otherwise, its shipped off to India or some such.
steve d.
(who thinks the Taliban weren’t so terribly bad)
has once again demonstrated to the following supplement to Godwin’s law:
Every interesting thread eventually will be hijacked by some self-absorbed nutcase.
ET writes:
“So what if elections are held every few years? The union executive is still unaccountable to the people who use the services provided by the workers.” The union executive is only accountable to it’s members. The company is accountable to the people who use the services providd by the workers.
“And, no, it’s only a legal strike that is voted on. This was illegal. But, no union worker dares to disobey, or the union will ensure that he’ll lose his job.”Once again, do you have proof the union ordered this strike? Were you there when the order went out? I’m amazed by how much you know. The union WILL have to pay the price for an illegal strike. And by the way, unions cannot fire employees that work for the company. Only management can.
“Again, unions are parasites. They are shadow management. They get their money off the wages of the workers. The do ZILCH for the workers, except take their salaries. Negotiations? Increase the salaries? That’s all. It hardly takes much time or work energy to come up with a negotiationos package to ‘increase salaries and benefits and lower work requirements’.” Again, another load of crap coming from the great ET. If it wasn’t for unions, the labour class would still be working 12 hour days, 6 days a week with no pension, medical, dental or holidays. Neocons like you would love to return to those wonderful Dickensian times. You’ve made it quite clear in this and previous posts that society’s hierarchy MUST be respected. (Damn those lower caste workers.) And by the way, when’s the last time you helped negotiate a collective agreement? How would you know how easy it is?
“Scrap unions and give financial and operational power back to the workers. Take it away from these fraudulent corporations, Unions.” Sounds like you’re reciting the newspeak from the NCC bible.
Paul from Van writes:
“Your post describes how a union ought to operate not how it does in fact operate. Your point that the members do have the right to elect an new executive every few years is accurate. However, it practice it is very difficult to kick out the old guard. It’s a lot like shareholders trying to lead a revolt to elect directors other than the slate proposed by management.” In practice? Which union do you belong to? Give some examples.
“Did everyone vote? No, only the 896 delegates at the meeting. Democracy indeed!” Isn’t that how Harper became leader of the Conservatives…through election by delegates.
Like I mentioned to ET previously: stick to subjects you know something about. Organized labour does not appear to be one of them.
Systems always function better when opposing forces act in balance in negative feedback loops. It’s a pattern seen over and over in stable systems.
Unions developed as an opposing force in an environment in which governmental regulation and law was largely absent.
One small fragment of society demonstrates the leverage it has by denying its service.
What force opposes and counterbalances unions, particularly those with the leverage just demonstrated in Toronto yesterday?
It’s idiotic to tolerate a system in which environment concerns go right out the window, fossil fuels are spent unproductively, and numerous small hits to the economy aggregate into a massive hit?
But then, there’s also the attendant who relies on the TTC to get to the assisted living facility where he or she ensures the elderly are getting their first nutrition of the day. Or the social worker misses a meeting involving an abused child. Of course, that’s all OK because the union is on the side of Right.
End the closed shop, and allow unions to compete for the provision of labor. We’ll find a new balance soon enough.
het lank laas sulke traffic gesien ,robotte is seker stukkend.
het lank laas sulke traffic gesien ,robotte is seker stukkend.
steve d.
Perhaps, based on the fact that you have been commenting here all day yesterday, you have a vested interest in the the TTC strike.
Perhaps, similar to the TTC worker shown relaxing yesterday, with nothing much to do, on the front page of today’s Toronto Sun.
Especially since your comments stopped at about midnight, perhaps, you had to go back to work today.
Andy: Yonge Street does not look like that every morning! That’s my commute to work, I would know. If you commute along Bloor, stick to what you know.
Iberia,
Actually the Conservative party doesn’t use the delegate system to elect its leaders: it uses the one member one vote system. I could say “stick to something you know something about” but personal insults aside explain to me how you view unions as democratic. My experience with unions is much closer to ET’s than your own, and by the way it is a subject I have some experience with. If you care to respond seriously to my previous post please feel free to do so.
I agree with the union, it’s totally outrageous to ask essential service workers to work the “graveyard” shift. Goodness knows I’m fed up with it. So unless they — mangement — agrees to close the hospital from 6:00 in the evening to 08:00 the next morning, I’m going to wildcat!!!
Billyboot
Sorry, no TTC for me. Too much abuse from the public. No respect.
DrD–I am not sure but I would hazard a guess that a critically ill human being is not going to have the luxury of deciding when he is going to be in a life or death situation.
However, I do believe a janitor can clean anytime. I don’t think it is life or death that he clean in the middle of the night. The bean counters and time management may think its important but they never calculate quality of life or the health of a worker, he is just a cost item to them.
Paul from Van:
I didn’t say that Harper WAS elected by delegates…it was a question. Regardless, other than leadership elections, the Conservative Party or any other large organization would be unable to accomplish anything if it was to rely on a referendum of all members for each item of business. Hence, delegates. Or MP’s/MLA’s. Is every government decision vetted by each and every citizen?
Rather then have me spend the night typing in order to explain to you why I think unions are democratic organizations, read this: http://www.bcfed.com/Organize/Union+Facts/index_2.htm
In my experience, problems are only possible if the membership is apathetic. Meetings are held monthly. Finances are independently audited yearly. If a member does not attend the meetings, he cannot vote on the decisions being made. If someone doesn’t come to meetings, doesn’t vote, doesn’t participate in any way whatsoever, that person isn’t justified in complaining about the decisions being made without his input.
Unions are not perfect because they are run by people. What organization is perfect? In any case, my opinion is that arguing against the existence of unions is arguing for totalitarianism.
…sign of the times? Only sign I see is Speed Limit 50K
😉
Let me get this right….in Steved’s mind….management locks out its workers and then seeks a court order to get them to work?
I have seen his name all over the forums and generally skip what appears to be a grade 8 writing style including the ever present name calling. Taking a moment to read some of the pontification from his socialist mind…I was starting to wonder just where obvious delirium comes from…then I read this….
“but because I know you so well I can go right inside your brain. On most issues. Come to think of it I can do that for most people who blog here”
The guy believes he can read minds! Case closed. The man is insane.
Toronto Cops Hunt Pair Video-Taping Subway
Just how secure is Toronto’s subway system from a terrorist attack? Two men skulking around Keele station with video cameras last week have police investigating — once again raising that important question.
10 hurt in Toronto subway mishap
The Dupont subway station was evacuated and five people were treated for smoke inhalation Thursday morning after a mechanical problem aboard a subway car that was just pulling into the station. …
via nealenews
Here’s another example of what ET calls a “neat corporation”. CUPE, is Canada’s largest union (that would like to bring you a monopoly of Day Care) is now dabbling with what should be debated in Parliament rather than brought to its membership by prejudiced union thugs.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=8ab8ed08-42c0-4150-99db-14df1dff31b1&k=61344
The money quote:
“Steven Schulman, Ontario regional director of the Canadian Jewish Congress, called the vote “outrageous.”
“For a respected labour union to engage in such a vote, which is completely one-sided and based on mistruths, is shocking,” he said.
He charged that CUPE Ontario’s press release about the vote “reads like a piece of propaganda.” He said Israel has recognized the Palestinian right to self-govern and has been engaged in a peace process.”
What on earth does this have to do with the daily life of a diversified work force? This is hysterical propaganda out of a Marlon Brando movie in the 1950’s. Unions belong in another era.
Um, Steve, leaving aside the “right-wing media” howler, the union and their lawyer, if they’re still sticking to the lock-out story, are lying.
It wouldn’t be the first time for a union and a lawyer to do so, and it certainly won’t be the last. In fact, it’s what they both do best.
“No media has gone to ask the obvious questions eminating from that lawyers statement.” Not sure what those obvious questions are, aside from “what in the hell are you smoking?”
But tell you what: why don’t you slip on the old fedora, stick a Press card in the brim, and go show the right-wing media what investigative journalism is all about.
What the hell does the Taliban have to do with a TTC wildcat strike?
Or, Steve D, are you aware of some connection we all need to know about?
Of course the lawyer said it was a lockout. Just like Miller and the Red Star said it was a wildcat strike. Who is correct? The lawyer?
“Right Wing Media”. New readers, don’t scroll backwards to read the original comment unless you’ve emptied your bladders first!
Iberia,
Your post describes how a union ought to operate not how it does in fact operate. Your point that the members do have the right to elect an new executive every few years is accurate. However, it practice it is very difficult to kick out the old guard. It’s a lot like shareholders trying to lead a revolt to elect directors other than the slate proposed by management.
I found the following article on Neale News, which illustrates how the “democracy” of a union operates in parctice:
“Ontario wing of Canada’s largest union to boycott Israel
The Ontario wing of Canada’s largest union has voted to join an international boycott campaign against Israel “until that state recognizes the Palestinian right to self-determination.”
The gist of the article is that the Ontario wing of CUPE representing over 200,000 members voted to boycott Israel until it recognizes Palestine’s right to self determination (no mention of a boycott of Iran over it’s non recognition of Israel’s right to self determination, but I digress). Did everyone vote? No, only the 896 delegates at the meeting. Democracy indeed!
I thought all residents of TO were concerned about the air quality of said city. Too many smog days so stop the pollution, (from other Provinces only) Guess all those in TO will have to hold their breath at least 10 minutes/hour to clean the air of all the increased emmissions from cars. And, all Kyoto supporters say, take public transportation. At least one can depend on their car to get to work. Time for class action suits against unions for lost profits, non-smoking groups for lost profits, protestors of whatever cause, for damages, inconvienience and pain and suffering. That would be a start to get common sense back into our daily lives. Pass a law, and enforce it, that any illegal strike will result in huge fines and an equal number of days in jail that you were on stike. The nurses union in BC and AB both were punished severly for illegal strikes. Lets ban all labor unions.
ATU North America’s Transit Union
Strike Watch: updated 5/26/06:
• Toronto: Janitorial shift changes could provoke ATU action
International Headquarters
5025 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016 –
http://www.atu.org/
Aunty-American speaks again:
At the end of her comments, after most of the cameras were turned off, [ex-Liberal MP] Parrish said, “Damn Americans … I hate those bastards.” … (Filter on?) Carl was referring to the late James Hoffa, Sr. Dig?
Hey boys and girls!
Yonge Street looks like that most mornings! I drove my wife to and from work at Bloor and Bathurst today from west Toronto and the trips might have been 2.3 minutes longer than usual. The really tough trips were north/south where people opt for transit, but have cars. The people really screwed were people without cars (the poor, the elderly) in 34 degree heat. I have some sympathy for drivers who are attacked by young urban youth in “fare disputes”. The cleaners who have to work nights will likely be supplied with nannies to help them through the experience.
Andy
Yes, us non-unionized country folk are looking real stupid now…
Who was that who mentioned “free fares” on buses? It’s company policy in Vancouver that nobody has to pay to ride the bus.
Matt
Lookouts don’t exist i suppose. Lockouts are a union plot i suppose. Hmmm, let me guess, you are right wing.
Management has never, and will never be wrong about anything. This goes double if there is a union involved. Is that about right, Mr.Rightwing? What a surprise.
steve – here’s a quote from the Red Star
“In one extreme incident, passengers were ordered off a Don Mills Ave. bus when it stopped at Finch. A union representative boarded the bus, ordered the passengers off and instructed the driver to return to base and park the vehicle.
The wildcat strike continued when the union defied a labour board cease-and-desist order, issued at 7:30 a.m., requiring TTC workers to report for work immediately. ”
The workers were NOT locked out. They struck. Illegally. On the orders of the union management. The city had to go to the Ontario Labour Relations to get them to issue a ‘back to work’ order. If the city had ‘locked out’ the workers, then, why would it go to the Labour Relations board to get a back-to-work order??? THINK.
steve – you ask some questions:
‘If you want to know what the Taliban are thinking, do you ask Bush’? etc.
OK. Then, why do you constantly inform us that YOU KNOW what Harper is thinking? Is it the case that
‘If you want to know that Harper is thinking, then, you ask steve d’.
Hmmm? That’s what megalomania or narcissistic conrol means; it means that the individual feels he has to control the world, and one aspect of his ability to control, is ‘knowing’ what every powerful person is thinking. Like you know what Harper is thinking. What Bush is thinking. hmmm
Iberia – so what if elections are held every few years? The union executive is still unaccountable to the people who use the services provided by the workers. We transit riders don’t get to hold the union to account. We get to hold the gov’t, who manages the transit, to account. But, we don’t get to hold the union to account.
And, no, it’s only a legal strike that is voted on. This was illegal. But, no union worker dares to disobey, or the union will ensure that he’ll lose his job.
Again, unions are parasites. They are shadow management. They get their money off the wages of the workers. The do ZILCH for the workers, except take their salaries. Negotiations? Increase the salaries? That’s all. It hardly takes much time or work energy to come up with a negotiationos package to ‘increase salaries and benefits and lower work requirements’.
You get a higher salary? So what? That means that you just pay more in taxes, and MORE IN UNION DUES. Your net goes DOWN. And, with union costs, the cost of services and goods increases. So, financially, unions in our modern age, decrease the financial power of workers.
Who benefits from unions? The union managment. It’s a unique type of ‘business’ corporation. It provides no services, no goods. It has no competition. All it does, is sit down at the negotiation table every few years and insist on MORE. More salary, more benefits. Period. In between, the union management busies itself with what? Informing its members who to vote for in federal elections? How dare they. Meddling in politics? How dare they interfere with each person’s right to think for themselves.
Remember, in our modern world, most pre-union and early-union services are now provided by the gov’t. Not by the union.
Scrap unions and give financial and operational power back to the workers. Take it away from these fraudulent corporations, Unions.
Steve, lockouts DO exist. But this isn’t one – everyone except the lying lawyer and lying union head recognize that. Why can’t you?
Kindness amidst rider outrage
Toronto Star – 9 hours ago
Secret routes? Acts of commuter kindness? Need a place to vent?
Tell us your stories from the TTC walkout.
The solution has been staring us in the face for a long time. The TTC can no longer be adequately funded by government support alone. …
google news
Matt
Everyone in management or otherwise in authority is in agreement, the union is wrong.
My take is that there is two sides to every story and we have not yet heard the other side.
So lets hear the other side before we convict them shall we? Even a murder gets to defend himself. Why not a union? There’s a new concept!
Andy at 7:00pm – you are full of crap. Toronto does not look like that every morning. Commute times were not 2-3 minutes different. Lying is a horrible way to try to score ideological points.
Stevie, you have anything to offer except slurs? Bueller?
Everything I heard on the radio, tv, media, interviews says this was a wildcat strike and not a lockout. So is there any fact you have to offer at all in defense of your conspiracy theory.
capt joe
what does the union say?
Again: What exploitation justified unionization of monopoly providers of public services? At least private sector union members are disciplined to some extent my market forces, i.e., if too unreasonable they could assist the competition kill off their employer and hence their jobs.
Hey, according to this article the union asked the strikers to return to work.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060529/transit_strike_toronto_060529/20060529?hub=TopStories
“Without reaching an agreement, ATU president Bob Kinnear ordered union members to return to work at around 3 p.m. His decision was prompted by the ATU’s failure to get the Ontario Labour Relations Board to quash the back to work order.”
and at CBC : http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/05/29/ttc-back.html
“The union had been told in two rulings from the Ontario Labour Relations Board on Monday that its walkout was illegal.”
If it was a lockout, then why is the Union asking people to return rather than management. Sorry, I just don’t see your case has any evidence at all. Unless you think the CBC is run by radical right wingers?
ET
You should know that the “red star” stops being red when the word “strike” is printed. Then they become your basic aristocratic upper class rag.
I know what Harper is thinking because he is an individual, public, has a long public history, gets a lot of press(even though he claims to distrust the media), his agenda is public, his actions are well covered in the MSM and blogesphere.
The Taliban, not so much, except the mantra that they are the bad guys. But that doesn’t tell me much. I know they were strict, but so are other governments. I know Bin Laden was there. But the USA has a terrorist who is accused of downing a passenger jet flying between Venesuela and Cuba and they don’t want to give him up for prosecution. So Afghanistan a sovereign country was invaded to “bring Bin Laden to justice” well, not really but its a good line. Then it was sovereign Iraq’s turn because well, you know,… next?…Iran?…Venezuela?…Cuba?…Bolivia?…
I don’t think Bush is a meglomaniac but I’ve been wrong before.
There are a lot of things that are beyond your control, unions are just one. Get used to it or get an analyst, or see your analyst more often.
The unions are losing their power don’t worry. They are only about 12% of the work force, even less in the USA. We are in a global race to the bottom on wages or didn’t you hear the news? In North America the workers are working harder than ever in history and still managing to spend more than they earn. Stay tuned.
I used to go to Human Resources and Development website to see the difference between unionized and non-union in the same fields. The union workers always made about $5 more than the non-union. The difference between paying your bills and not. Well, now its pretty much not. Stay tuned.
Hey NCF TO at 9:35 pm:
I didn’t say Toronto was like that, just that part of Yonge. I didn’t say all commute times were 2 – 3 minutes longer, just that mine were 2.3 minutes longer – the point being that within the city, things were fine. The big point is that we’re in pretty good shape, even with the odd strike. Look at Cairo, where the population density is 34,000 people per km2, compared with Toronto’s pretty lame 3,900 people per km2. There, they have real problems. And … I don’t have an ideological point. I just live here and work it out like anybody else!
Andy
the first thing I noticed in the picture was all the haze in the horizon. then the proliferation of cars emitting their exhaust adding to the haze.
sign of the times folks, sign of the times !!
Stevie, I responded but the response seems to have gotten stuck in moderation. I guess it was the quoting of the CBC that got it subjected to special attention (Just kidding, Kate).
I think your point about wages is specific to niche industries. It certainly isn’t true of mine.
Speaking as someone who works in the computer field, I make way more money than friends who work for the government (since that is the only place where IT is involved with unions). The IT industry is a meritocracy (at least where I am). The more skilled you are the more you get.
capt joe
yeah well, keep your skills up. The only people who appear to be safe are the highly skilled whose physical presence is necessary to get the job done. Otherwise, its shipped off to India or some such.
steve d.
(who thinks the Taliban weren’t so terribly bad)
has once again demonstrated to the following supplement to Godwin’s law:
Every interesting thread eventually will be hijacked by some self-absorbed nutcase.
ET writes:
“So what if elections are held every few years? The union executive is still unaccountable to the people who use the services provided by the workers.” The union executive is only accountable to it’s members. The company is accountable to the people who use the services providd by the workers.
“And, no, it’s only a legal strike that is voted on. This was illegal. But, no union worker dares to disobey, or the union will ensure that he’ll lose his job.”Once again, do you have proof the union ordered this strike? Were you there when the order went out? I’m amazed by how much you know. The union WILL have to pay the price for an illegal strike. And by the way, unions cannot fire employees that work for the company. Only management can.
“Again, unions are parasites. They are shadow management. They get their money off the wages of the workers. The do ZILCH for the workers, except take their salaries. Negotiations? Increase the salaries? That’s all. It hardly takes much time or work energy to come up with a negotiationos package to ‘increase salaries and benefits and lower work requirements’.” Again, another load of crap coming from the great ET. If it wasn’t for unions, the labour class would still be working 12 hour days, 6 days a week with no pension, medical, dental or holidays. Neocons like you would love to return to those wonderful Dickensian times. You’ve made it quite clear in this and previous posts that society’s hierarchy MUST be respected. (Damn those lower caste workers.) And by the way, when’s the last time you helped negotiate a collective agreement? How would you know how easy it is?
“Scrap unions and give financial and operational power back to the workers. Take it away from these fraudulent corporations, Unions.” Sounds like you’re reciting the newspeak from the NCC bible.
Paul from Van writes:
“Your post describes how a union ought to operate not how it does in fact operate. Your point that the members do have the right to elect an new executive every few years is accurate. However, it practice it is very difficult to kick out the old guard. It’s a lot like shareholders trying to lead a revolt to elect directors other than the slate proposed by management.” In practice? Which union do you belong to? Give some examples.
“Did everyone vote? No, only the 896 delegates at the meeting. Democracy indeed!” Isn’t that how Harper became leader of the Conservatives…through election by delegates.
Like I mentioned to ET previously: stick to subjects you know something about. Organized labour does not appear to be one of them.
Systems always function better when opposing forces act in balance in negative feedback loops. It’s a pattern seen over and over in stable systems.
Unions developed as an opposing force in an environment in which governmental regulation and law was largely absent.
One small fragment of society demonstrates the leverage it has by denying its service.
What force opposes and counterbalances unions, particularly those with the leverage just demonstrated in Toronto yesterday?
It’s idiotic to tolerate a system in which environment concerns go right out the window, fossil fuels are spent unproductively, and numerous small hits to the economy aggregate into a massive hit?
But then, there’s also the attendant who relies on the TTC to get to the assisted living facility where he or she ensures the elderly are getting their first nutrition of the day. Or the social worker misses a meeting involving an abused child. Of course, that’s all OK because the union is on the side of Right.
End the closed shop, and allow unions to compete for the provision of labor. We’ll find a new balance soon enough.
het lank laas sulke traffic gesien ,robotte is seker stukkend.
het lank laas sulke traffic gesien ,robotte is seker stukkend.
New TTC Slogan: Take a Seat & Stay Awhile.
http://tinyurl.com/rkyfn
steve d.
Perhaps, based on the fact that you have been commenting here all day yesterday, you have a vested interest in the the TTC strike.
Perhaps, similar to the TTC worker shown relaxing yesterday, with nothing much to do, on the front page of today’s Toronto Sun.
Especially since your comments stopped at about midnight, perhaps, you had to go back to work today.
Andy: Yonge Street does not look like that every morning! That’s my commute to work, I would know. If you commute along Bloor, stick to what you know.
Iberia,
Actually the Conservative party doesn’t use the delegate system to elect its leaders: it uses the one member one vote system. I could say “stick to something you know something about” but personal insults aside explain to me how you view unions as democratic. My experience with unions is much closer to ET’s than your own, and by the way it is a subject I have some experience with. If you care to respond seriously to my previous post please feel free to do so.
I agree with the union, it’s totally outrageous to ask essential service workers to work the “graveyard” shift. Goodness knows I’m fed up with it. So unless they — mangement — agrees to close the hospital from 6:00 in the evening to 08:00 the next morning, I’m going to wildcat!!!
Billyboot
Sorry, no TTC for me. Too much abuse from the public. No respect.
DrD–I am not sure but I would hazard a guess that a critically ill human being is not going to have the luxury of deciding when he is going to be in a life or death situation.
However, I do believe a janitor can clean anytime. I don’t think it is life or death that he clean in the middle of the night. The bean counters and time management may think its important but they never calculate quality of life or the health of a worker, he is just a cost item to them.
Paul from Van:
I didn’t say that Harper WAS elected by delegates…it was a question. Regardless, other than leadership elections, the Conservative Party or any other large organization would be unable to accomplish anything if it was to rely on a referendum of all members for each item of business. Hence, delegates. Or MP’s/MLA’s. Is every government decision vetted by each and every citizen?
Rather then have me spend the night typing in order to explain to you why I think unions are democratic organizations, read this:
http://www.bcfed.com/Organize/Union+Facts/index_2.htm
In my experience, problems are only possible if the membership is apathetic. Meetings are held monthly. Finances are independently audited yearly. If a member does not attend the meetings, he cannot vote on the decisions being made. If someone doesn’t come to meetings, doesn’t vote, doesn’t participate in any way whatsoever, that person isn’t justified in complaining about the decisions being made without his input.
Unions are not perfect because they are run by people. What organization is perfect? In any case, my opinion is that arguing against the existence of unions is arguing for totalitarianism.
…sign of the times? Only sign I see is Speed Limit 50K
😉
Let me get this right….in Steved’s mind….management locks out its workers and then seeks a court order to get them to work?
I have seen his name all over the forums and generally skip what appears to be a grade 8 writing style including the ever present name calling. Taking a moment to read some of the pontification from his socialist mind…I was starting to wonder just where obvious delirium comes from…then I read this….
“but because I know you so well I can go right inside your brain. On most issues. Come to think of it I can do that for most people who blog here”
The guy believes he can read minds! Case closed. The man is insane.
Toronto Cops Hunt Pair Video-Taping Subway
Just how secure is Toronto’s subway system from a terrorist attack? Two men skulking around Keele station with video cameras last week have police investigating — once again raising that important question.
10 hurt in Toronto subway mishap
The Dupont subway station was evacuated and five people were treated for smoke inhalation Thursday morning after a mechanical problem aboard a subway car that was just pulling into the station. …
via nealenews