Gateway Pundit has a roundup on the rioting and protest that is going largely unreported In Northwest Iran, Tabriz, southeastern Sistan and Balochistan Provinces, Iranian Kurdistan, Khuzestan and even Tehran;
Another province that faces increasing unrest is Khuzestan that produces almost 80 percent of Iran’s oil. The province is home to most of Iran’s estimated 3.2 million ethnic Arabs. Although ethnic Arabs account for fewer than 40 percent of the province’s population, there are districts, such as Dasht Mishan and Susangerd, where they represent up to 80 percent.
Interestingly enough, there’s lots of coverage of an isolated riot over a traffic accident in Kabul this morning.
Just the CIA doing what is does best. The lesson once again is, don’t piss off America.
steve d.
So the riots are fomented by the CIA? Can you provide us the source of this fascinating info?
Inquiring minds, you know. We in the VRWC need to plug this leak…
You got that right steve.
Those brown folks are just simple puppets on strings to us guys.
They’d have no concept of freedom from tyranny even if we rubbed their noses in it like a naughty dog.
Wayne:
Who are “us guys”? Don’t think I want to be a part of that group. Especially if that group is like you in how they honour the deaths of the millions of “brown folks” who have died fighting tyranny in their own land without any support – or any thought – from the West.
The concepts of freedom and democracy were not invented in the West.
Ted
Cerberus
Source? One of those “brown people”.
Hhhmmm CIA maybe but Steve d. I surmise by your comment that you support the mullahs. Since it appears that your comment is witty sarcasm.
Cerberus what the hell are you talking about? That’s the lamest oneoff sideswipe I’ve seen in a long time. Personally I thought the Greeks came up with democracy but I could be wrong but if I’m not then where are they if not the West?
Read your Bible Jeff. Lots of stories even in there about freedom.
By West, I meant Western European and North America, what is normally meant by the geopolitical reference of “the West”. We tend to act as though the very concept of freedom and liberty were invented by us. Even if you wanted to say the Greeks were “the West”, democracy, as a formal political institution, pre-dates even them.
But the point was not about the West. It was in response to the comments above which implied that the victims of the tyrannical regime in Iran (or anywhere else) wouldn’t know a thing about freedom unless we brought it to them.
Ted
Cerberus
Shaken and Jeff
I didn’t say the mullahs were good bad or indifferent. They do appear quite conservative and at times oppressive. I couldn’t and wouldn’t live in any religion run state.
The people, especially the middle class, I understand are quite westernized or want to be.
I am not surprised that they would protest. That being said there is the other reality.
Politically, the Americans have been lurking about since 1979 probing, gathering information, garnering human intelligence through a network of paid informants. They do this whenever and wherever they can in countries that are on their black list. I hope you don’t find this too surprising? Other countries have spies too!
When the political situation in a country is deemed somewhat uncertain or unstable the CIA tries to “help things along” by paying sympathizers and radicals to disrupt in a more assertive and aggressive way. They hope for an internal revolution that will overthrow the government. Its a lot less messy than pulling off another “Iraq”. So they would prefer a successful internal revolt to an external invasion. If you don’t believe me you will have to go back to foreign affairs kindergarten and be re-educated.
No video, no TV coverage.
Lots of Western reporters in Afstan. Almost none with cameras outside Tehran. For those in Tehran I imagine the censorship is prettty strict.
Mark
Ottawa
Cerberus: you need to improve your reading comprehension. When us raving right wing lunatics agree that people protesting against an islamist government are puppets on a string, somebody might be having a go at a previous comment or statement by a communist.
Steve D being the local communist, I’m pretty sure that’s a fair reading of Wayne’s comment.
Well near as I can tell most of the world was run primarily by monarchies until the British left for the New World. I suppose you can find exceptions but Democratically elected governments didn’t begin to flourish until America began the experiment on a grand scale. Since the late 1900’s to now some 100 plus countries have converted to Democratic governance. So maybe the West or as you like to put it Ted Westen European and North American countries can be forgiven for acting like they invented Democracy since they largely made it the standard for modern governance.
Steve d. If you are going to make a sarcastic remark at least have the balls to stand behing it and not hide in double talk.
Personally I think you should pack and move to Iran.
spend a year or two with your beloved mullahs. You’ll be back either packed with explosives around your waist or your tail between your legs.
Either way suits me just fine.
“When the political situation in a country is deemed somewhat uncertain or unstable the CIA tries to “help things along” by paying sympathizers and radicals to disrupt in a more assertive and aggressive way.”
steve d, for starters so does France, Russia, China, etc do “probing, gathering information” and spend money for their desired outcomes. Got that.
Second, trying to paint with a broad brush CIA activity in every global demonstration whose outcome might be a better deal for the US is not going to fly unless you can put some facts with your theories.
Like an attack dog trained to pounce on all things conservatives and the US, your comments are redundant and predictable. You need to start linking to some verifiable facts to back up your statements.
“The concepts of freedom and democracy were not invented in the West.” – Ted
Democracy derives from the Greeks. Then, you’ve got the New Testament’s division of church and state, the Reformation, English Common Law, etc – the progressive and cultural cornerstones of civil societies in the West.
I’d pretty much say that freedom and democracy have Western origins. Freedom and democracies as cultural core principles outside of Western civilization?…….Saudi Arabia only denounced slavery officially a few years ago. It’s still practiced in Africa. China? I don’t think so. Banana Republics in SA with their new “brown skin” leaders like Chavez and the ethnic Indian in Bolivia? I don’t think so.
Ted, you’re the classic liberal whose “feelings” generate a worldview not supported by facts and whose perpetual indignation, a childlike posturing, feeds off of those feelings rather than facts.
Steve, baby, push that crayon back up your nostril – it helped Homer Simpson, and it can help you too.
Good comment, Penny. Many of the concepts used as the foundation for modern democracies have roots with the “bougeouise french” with no apparent connection to earlier models.
hey, Thanks
Some people’s brain boxes just can’t make out sarcasm.
But taking things literally sure is the way to go when you’re un-jamming a wood chipper.
Maybe the knack to recognize sarcasm is like yodeling, some folks are born with it and some folks struggle all there lives to master it.
My point was more on the issue of “freedom” and “liberty”, folks, and the assertion or implication that brown people only want freedom because it has been promoted and pushed upon them by the West. That our current forms and concepts of democracy and freedom have no apparent connection to earlier models only underscores that point.
“Ted, you’re the classic liberal whose “feelings” generate a worldview not supported by facts and whose perpetual indignation, a childlike posturing, feeds off of those feelings rather than facts.”
Penny, you’re a classic conservative who can process information that doesn’t fit neatly into a pre-configured ideological box. Where do my feelings get expressed anywhere here? And if recognizing that people all over the world might like/want some taste of freedom and that their documented struggles for freedom pre-date civilization in Europe makes me a “liberal”, than I am indeed a liberal.
Ted
Cerberus
Some relevant comments by Amartya Sen in the Wall Street Journal . Could be read by turning one’s ad hominen filter off.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008132
cerberus: It was steve d. who commented:
“Just the CIA doing what is does best”
-in reaction to this post on protests in Iran. But please, continue the lecture on the origins of democracy, liberty and freedom.
“And if recognizing that people all over the world might like/want some taste of freedom and that their documented struggles for freedom pre-date civilization in Europe…”
No, that wasn’t your point. Nice try, Ted, at bait and switch.
This was your statement that I refuted:
“The concepts of freedom and democracy were not invented in the West.”
When you can’t defend your position with logic and reason, deflecting any rebuttal by constructing a new paradigm of what I really meant isn’t going to work, Ted.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110008132
Looks like a lot of people are in a foreign affairs disneyland state of mind.
Hey–I am not the local communist anymore than you are the local fascist. But maybe I assume too much.
Penny-very good, yes, other countries do spend on covert activities. But, and this is a big but, only one country spends more than all the others put together on covert activities AND on military as well. With big money you can pay large numbers of people large amounts of money and/or bully people militarily.
You know, I went to the CIA website looking for a list of covert activities and either someone forgot to put it up there or maybe they just are too shy to brag about their exploits. Penny, I was hoping you wouldn’t be so naive about covert activities. There have been books written there are documents on the internet regarding Chile in 1973 when they took out Allende. Surely you know about Castro and the CIA’s attempts to get rid of him. There are lots of historical examples showing how the CIA operates. Iran is an interesting one. They overthrew the democratic Iranian government in 1953 and installed the Shah of Iran, an American puppet. Yeah, America only likes democracy when their corporations are allowed free reign. The Iranian government was going to nationalize the oil business. Go educate yourself.
Jeff-touchy aren’t we. Did I prick a favourite balloon??
Red ant-go read up on Iranian democracy in the late 1940’s and early 50’s. See who killed it.
It’s funny when people talk about the big, bad CIA and defend murderous regimes who then go on to tell others to educate themselves.
It’s as though they believe listing theories about CIA operations is an education, lol.
It is they who need the education, starting with the classics and then moving into Western philosophers of the past few centuries. It’s an eye-opener, but more importantly a mind opener – takes away that narrow minded psychopathy.
steve d.-jeeez.
Believe it or not Steve d., I actually have heard of Iran before today. I even have talked to some real live Iranians. I have even been to Tehran(thats in Iran FYI). Honestly.
I even know about Chile and Allende and all that stuff. Impressed? Don’t give me reading assignments based on what you assume I don’t know.
Funny, Penny.
Here is what I said: “Especially if that group is like you in how they honour the deaths of the millions of “brown folks” who have died fighting tyranny in their own land without any support – or any thought – from the West. The concepts of freedom and democracy were not invented in the West.”
i.e., since that is clearly beyond you, the brown folks may have a desire for freedom whether or not we want them to have it (in the case of a tyranny that doesn’t support us) or we don’t want them to have it (in the case of a tyranny that does support us, officially at any rate, like Saudi Arabia or Egypt).
I’m just amazed at your ability to root out non-conservatives and go into instant, full-on attack mode. My comment was not an attack on the conservative mindset. But, like I said above, you seem like one of those conservatives who can’t process information that doesn’t fit neatly into a pre-configured ideological box so I understand why it’s easier for you to just attack.
But if you are going to just simply attack because “all Liberals are evil” then at least try to be a bit interesting about it. Where is Canadian Sentinel tonight? At least his insults show some creativity.
Ted
Cerberus
infidel
I don’t think I defended any murderous regimes, I think a country like the USA should have a higher moral standard among those who work for it. The country is being betrayed without its knowing. It is a failing of the MSM as much as anything but today many are finding out through the internet.
You won’t find the CIA’s operations listed in any of the classics of Western Philosophy. Sorry infidel if this stuff is too much for you. Some day you will be ready to look and learn and it’ll still be there.
red ant
So am i blowing smoke or do I know something about the CIA?
I was busy reading all about this in the Economist or some such, and now clicking on web pages along the top of Opera and *Bingo* SDA recognizes to worth of this interesting 1/4 sector of the culture of Iran.
*** Pause *** Just carefully read this thread. Hmmmm, no one is asking my opinion, yet I mildly suggest that the topic has not been touched so far.
Lots of rib jabbing and some background but what about this group who have the surprising nerve to demonstrate in the face of dangerous *Mullusks*?
Now I begin to see how they were made to release some anti-government writer journalists in the last couple of months.
I*m just a primary school drop-out but I wonder if I refrain from calling anyone a Liberal, communist, fascist, or dipstick, would my views carry more weight?
I kinda think so… maybe. TG
IMHO, there will never be a successful revolt in Iran (or Cuba) unless their armies refuse the order to shoot their own people.
Their people are unarmed and defenseless (as required for tyranny to rule).
They do not have the “American style” freedom to bear arms or the “American style” right to self defense of their lives.
steve d. o/t but I wonder, why America has not taken Castro out?
Doesn’t the fact that Castro is in power there for all these years makes socialists claims about a “pissed off” imperial America a farce, as America could quite obviously take Castro and his army out whenever she wants.
But foolishness and farce do not seem to influence a “socially democratic” and “progressive” Canadians’ (off topic but for steve d and the left almost any topic will do) anti-American rant.
steve d.:
I think you’re overestimating the CIA’s talents. —– http://tinyurl.com/me3tz
The protests in Iran are from (IMHO) genuine local dissent. The ethnic dissent is as old as the hills. The urban/student protests have been going on since at least 1999
—– http://tinyurl.com/qs7qv
and the false elections 2 years ago.
—– http://tinyurl.com/yt2hb
I agree with concrete.
My worry is that if the mullocracy really feels threatened by internal demand for change then the slaughter of protesters will begin. Some hope lies with dissenting clerics. They do exist.
—– http://tinyurl.com/mnubw
An amazing article from 3 years ago.
—– http://tinyurl.com/qvytv