A former supporter of gun control;
These two reports were done with essentially the same criteria and methods, and they clearly show that while selected violent crime rates rose 100% in the UK, they fell 65 % in the U.S. During this time, Britain outlawed private ownership of firearms, while over 70 million additional civilian firearms were sold in the U.S. (4) At the very least, a reasonable person is forced to conclude that availability of firearms to the general public is not a contributing factor to any increase in crime.
These trends are confirmed by Britain’s own Home Office. (5) In the period of 1997 through 2001, homicide rose 19% in the UK while it fell 12% in the USA. (6) Violent crime incidents rose 26% in the UK while falling 12% in the USA. (7) Robbery rates rose 92% in the UK and fell 15% in the USA. (8)
Late-breaking news has surfaced as we go to press that should make the government move more quickly to kill the registry. John Hicks, former Web master for the Canadian Firearms Centre (CFC), approached the Ontario Federation of Anglers and Hunters (OFAH) and reported that anyone with a home computer could easily access names, addresses, and details (make, model, serial number) of millions of registered guns belonging to millions of unsuspecting licensed firearms owners.
http://www.fishontario.com/homepage/news/article.jsp?content=20060403_105428_4888&page=1
[Liberal Premier of Ontario]McGuinty: Don’t dismantle gun registry
TORONTO (CP) – Ontario is urging the federal government not to start dismantling the controversial gun registry. cnews
two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
Two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
Two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
Two gun collections were stolen this year in Toronto. One of the collections had 40 guns in it. They were all registered. You gotta believe that the police were happy to know exactly what had been stolen. The last I heard they had recovered most of the guns.
The last two paragraphs get to the heart of the matter. Thank you, AG Fraser.
Down with the Gun Registry.
canada.com Excerpt:
The criticism that the Liberals are certain to face for their handling of the gun registry may not end with this report either. Fraser’s report also reveals that her office is continuing to investigate the handling of a number of the 3,642 contracts awarded for work done on the registry.
The “red flag” contracts include those worth less than $25,000 – exempting them from a competitive bidding process – whose value subsequently increased by 150 per cent; properly awarded contracts whose value increased significantly; and “fixed-price” contracts awarded in 2001 and 2002 that had no measurable goal and no record of a product being delivered.
“The initial value of each contract was below the $25,000 limit, but the final values were much higher: $50,000, $107,000 and $319,431,” the report said. “We will be reviewing these contracts in greater detail.”
The auditor general’s report also found that there is a lack of evidence to support the effectiveness of the gun registry, or to prove that it is meeting its stated goal of improving public safety.
“The performance report focuses on activities such as issuing licences and registering firearms. The Centre does not show how these activities help minimize risks to public safety with evidence-based outcomes such as reduced deaths, injuries and threats from firearms,” the report said.
But Steve-o, was it worth $2B?
JasperPants
steve d.
Prior to the registry the police would have had the identical information. Presumably, the owner of the guns knew what he owned, and would have provided the description to the police.
Am I missing something about the point you were trying to make?
Registration of a gun has NOTHING to do with its use or non-use in a criminal act. As has been pointed out, registration of a car doesn’t stop you from driving through a red light, parking illegally, driving drunk
Registration of a car doesn’t stop its being stolen and driving through a red light, being used in a theft.
Same with guns. And remember, criminals don’t register guns.
AND, most gun crimes are committed with handguns. They’ve been registered since 1934. Have you noticed that handgun crime has exponentially increased in Canada???
The gun registry is a PR tactic of the Liberals. Its agenda is VOTES. Not safety.
steve d
What if the gun registry was hacked by criminals and the addresses of those gun collections, (which were secret before the gun registry) made up a shopping list for B and E criminals?
Dave said: “In logic and debates, this is known as begging the question. There is no cause-and-effect proof of the Registry preventing ANY crime.”
Right on Dave. That is is the point that keeps getting missed here. I understand that the who registry thing was dreamed up in 1995 in response to horror of the (1989? – not sure about the year) Marc Lepine incident.
The question I would put to any of these gun control nutbars is, “If you could jump in a time machine and set up this registry 10 years before the Ecole Polytechnique tragedy, are you willing to bet that those women would have been any safer?”
But, apparently, I am missing some greater point…
steve – watch the multiple posts, please.
Lets look at the gun registry logically:
1) Is a criminal likely to register their illegal firearm? No.
2) Is the lack of a registered firearm in a household proof of a lack of a firearm? No. There are unregistered firearms in the hands of the public – including the guns of criminals who do not register their guns.
3) If there is a firearm in the home and it is registered, what conclusion could you make about that household? The owner is a law abiding person who took the time and money to ensure compliance with the law.
4) Does the legal firearm owner in 3 pose a threat to police or the public? Not likely. In fact, by proactively complying with the law, a precedent of adherence to the law is established that even the non-gun owner has not established.
5) Does the unregistered firearm owner pose a greater potential threat (although not necessarily a threat) to police officers responding to their home? Yes. Meaning that the gun registry does not list those most likely to be a threat – failing its main reason for existing.
6) How does the registry make police safer if the registry only tells you who is NOT a threat? It doesn’t. You can’t rely on the registry to tell you which household or person is a risk to police or the public as those people of greatest risk (i.e. criminals) do not register guns that they are most likely not entitled to possess anyway. In other words, the registry can’t be relied upon by police to give them an accurate assessment of risk when responding to a call – again, failing it main purpose for existing.
7) Does an ineffective firearm registry which diverts money from beat cops make society safer? No. Less cops on the street makes society less safe. This makes the gun registry not useless but less than useless. It is actually counterproductive.
What part of the futility of the gun registry is incomprehensible to the liberal/lefty mind? Why are you lot so unable to see the obvious and achieve the proper and logical conclusions from this simple mental exercise?
logical arguements won’t work on leftist kooks; the gun registry much like the liberal “child care” scheme, has become socialist dogma not to be questioned by us non establishment elites.
I had a good response, Phantom, but I can’t make it through Kate’s filter. Email me.
That’s too bad Dawg,
I’m looking forwards to hearing how you rebuke.
I especially await your explanation of Switzerland’s low violent crime rate despite the fact that virtually every household has an automatic submachine gun in their home…
It interests me to be enlightened as to how universal automatic weapon ownership can be squared with very low crime rates if gun ownership correlates with high percentages of violent crimes. Be sure to include all of those accompanying facts…
Related: “Photocopiers burned out” … Chretien’s signatures on documents… setting up AdScam… where is Paul Who? Martin. Librano$ exposed as fraud artists. Cooking Gun Registry books… Send in the RCMP and arrest the bdhftdfs; Book ’em….
Guite jurors confused
By LES PERREAUX
…
At the start of her testimony, Conway described how her team burned out photocopiers reproducing millions of pages in documentation for various investigations into government contracting.
Crown prosecutor Jacques Dagenais mused that the paper sorted by Conway’s team would reach the height of the CN Tower in Toronto if it were stacked in one pile.
Not all of that paper has floated into Guite’s trial, but the judge still appeared to cringe at both descriptions.
When Guite cross-examined Conway, he made two key points with the help of only two pieces of paper.
Guite pointed to the signature of former prime minister Jean Chretien at the bottom of a Treasury Board request to finance the sponsorship program.
Guite asked Conway if it was normal the the prime minister would personally sign such a document.
“It’s extremely unusual,” said Conway, a top civil servant at Public Works. “In fact I have never seen it.” cnews
Another little reality about gun registration:
It is not at all similar to registering your vehicle.
If you park your motorhome in the back yard for the winter, unregistered, are you subject to seizure of all your vehicles and a 5 to 10 year prison sentence? If someone steals your car, are YOU subject to prison?
Drivers licenses and vehicle registration are regulatory law, not criminal. Stop the foolish comparisons used to further the control agenda.
The gun registry is the single greatest attack on civil liberties we have seen in generations. It turns citizens into serfs by limiting the use of lethal force to the State. It has to go, period.
Criminals who victimize us all are the problem, not inanimate matter.
Hey Dawg. Post a comment on my blog, that’s easiest eh?
Bruce, why is the Cdn Chiefs of Police Association so set on the gun registry? Just saw its president (Winnepeg Chief of Police, can’t spell his name) plead its utility on TV, repeating the same 5,000 hits/day stat that is being debunked here. I assume that he knows the difference between CPIC and gun registry queries, so what’s the agenda?
Agitfact:
1. Because he knows that when confiscation comes, it won’t apply to him.
2. He’s a senior bureaucrat, far closer to the government than the citizen, and it’s too late to change his tune now…
Police chiefs in major cities are political animals first and cops second.
Kate
Sorry, but when I click “post” sometimes I get a return to the previous page message as if it didn’t transfer the message. So I post it again. As you can see it took several tries before it functioned properly. Obviously, even though it didn’t look like it from this end it was actually posting. Next time I will click once and if it doesn’t go, too bad for me. Your readers will just have to suffer the loss of my post. 😉
Gentlemen
Two billion is an awful lot of money to set up anything. I would like to see the breakdown of how this money was spent.
However, now that it is here apparently all the police organizations want to keep it.
The only relevant question at this point is are the benefits of the system going to justify the on-going expenses?
I never registered my gun when all this BS started. The gun registry is a crime against freedom. As it goes they can register my gun when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Oh and Steve missing your posts is like a gift from the gods.
Ask a gun control advocate that if he or she owned a gun would that make he or she more likely to commit a crime with it. If the answer is yes, that individual is likely psychotic, if the answer is no, they have blown their gun control justification or confessed to elitism.
For those who say that the gun registry is useless – not so!
The Libs and other socialists know full well that its “use” will be to aid an eventual ban and confiscation. For those who think this is alarmist just remember the Libs’ call for a complete ban of handguns during the last election.
Agitfact:
I cannot fathom why the Cdn Chiefs of Police Association is in favour of the registry, given that most of the senior people I talk to are dead set against it. I’ve heard rumours that the previous government promised some quid pro qous in exchange for support, but I cannot verify that.
I used to support the assn financially every year. Last time they called me for the customary 3 or 4 hundred bucks, I told the caller that I could no longer support them because of the stand they had taken on the registry; the caller said that he understood and that he heard the same response frequently from others.
steve d:
As to the benefits of the system justifying the expense. To me, no. The approx. $80 million in annual operating costs would fund about 500 RCMP officers. I think diverting the money to that purpose would do more to attack crime than monitoring a bunch of duck hunters and farmers. Canada has a very low rate of police per capita, and it really is starting to show, at least in the urban areas.
I haven’t paid much attention to the gun registry in the past because this whole gun business leaves me cold. Guns may be a big deal if you live in some rural areas but I don’t so its a non-issue. But then with all the commotion I thought I would have a look.
I have just been to the CBC web site reading about this mess we call the gun registry. They have a cronological account so it should be clear. I read it twice and its as clear as mud. So from my perspective as an outsider and simple tax payer I say get rid of it. It is poorly conceived and managed. There is little assurance that the registry is accurate or can be accurate in the future. Further, it appears to remain a sinkhole for tax money.
steve d.
I KNEW there was a reason I defended you against unfair attacks and being labeled as a troll. Fact is, the sign of a bright person is that he/she is able to trump ideology with intelligence…
I doubt that many (if any) gun owners are looking for tax savings. I, for one, just want to redirect the monies wasted into law enforcement.
Does anyone out there know if the rifles used to kill the 4 RCMP in Mayerthorpe were registered?Also would the registration of these rifles made a whit of a difference,if they were registered?
wallyj;
The guns were NOT registered. Further, the killer was under a court-imposed prohibition from possessing firearms…
Hey Dawg. Post a comment on my blog, that’s easiest eh?
Done.
Warwick:
http://www.swissinfo.org/eng/search/detail/Why_is_Switzerland_prone_to_family_killings.html?siteSect=881&sid=6680267&cKey=1146687704000
Past a certain rank in the police forces across Canada you are forced to become more of a politician and civil servant that a police officer. If you expect to be promoted, or even keep your job, you sure as hell better follow the “party” line of those in civic power. And which political direction do the councils of most of our major cities lean?
Your theory is we should be like our law abiding citezens to the south. That’s what make us different we’re more law abiding here. We should have separate jails for natives and non-natives there would be less trouble.