Over the past few weeks, I’ve received a steady stream of accounts of Chinese organ harvesting and persecution of Falun Gong from a variety of sources.
Via reader Charles Liu;
(AFP): The Falun Gong has alleged that as many as 75 percent of its 6,000 followers held in a state-run Chinese camp in the Sujiatun district of the northern city of Shenyang had been cremated after they were killed and their organs harvested and sold.
“Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions,” McCormack said.
“In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.”
There was a similar report two weeks ago in a column in The Australian;
It appears the claims by Falun Gong have been at least substantially exaggerated. Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed by Falun Gong. The Chinese Foreign Ministry has dismissed the allegations as “absurd lies”.
The Falun Gong description of the hospital as a concentration camp or death camp appears to be wrong. While China has re-education camps, there is no credible evidence that it operates the equivalent of gulags or concentration camps.
But given past Chinese behaviour, the Falun Gong claims cannot be completely discounted. It is well established that China conducts so-called organ harvesting, including among the 5000 to 12,000 people sentenced to death each year, and not necessarily with their permission or that of their families. It is a lucrative trade, with overseas patients flying to China for transplants.
So where does the truth lie? That’s a hard call – it’s unlikely any involuntary organ harvesting would be taking place during an announced visit by foreign observers. On the other hand, one would think it would be difficult to conceal “concentration camp” conditions on the massive scale alleged in other reports.
The news release from the US State Department is here.
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
April 14, 2006
Taken Question from 04-14-06 Daily Press Briefing
China: Reports of Concentration Camp in Northeast China
Question: What information can you provide regarding a reported concentration camp in China where Falun Gong practitioners were jailed and their organs harvested?
Answer: We are aware of the allegations and have taken these charges seriously. The Department and our Embassy in Beijing, as well as our Consulate General in Shenyang, have actively sought to determine the facts of the matter. Officers and staff from our Embassy in Beijing and Consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions. In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.
We have raised these reports with the Chinese government and urged it to investigate these allegations. China�s Ministry of Foreign Affairs spokesperson has publicly denied there is any basis for the allegations.
Independent of these specific allegations, we remain concerned over China�s repression of Falun Gong practitioners. We are also concerned by reports of organ harvesting. We have raised these concerns both in our annual Human Rights Report and in discussions with the Chinese government, both in Washington and in Beijing.
The Epoch Times has been following this story closely, and has reaction to the US State Department report. At this point, I think the safest thing to say is that it’s hard to know one way or the other – especially when allegations concern a state as closed and controlled as China.
Lawmakers of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) urged
international organizations Tuesday to investigate claims that emerged about
Chinese authorities harvesting organs from detained Falun Gong members in
China.
Legislators William Lai, Tien Chiu-chin and Huang Chao-hui proposed that the
Legislative Yuan issue a resolution to urge Amnesty International and the
World Health Organization to send a task force to an alleged Chinese
concentration camp to investigate allegations that Chinese authorities are
harvesting human organs from detained Falun Gong members.
Lai urged people not to receive organ transplants in China not only because
its medical care level is not as good as in Taiwan, but also because
patients should not accept organs harvested in violation of human rights.
Falun Gong members in Taiwan claim that China is running a Nazi-style
concentration camp where around 6,000 Falun Gong members are detained, and
the harvested organs are sold to patients around the world.
LOAD-DATE: April 18, 2006
Lawmakers of the ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) urged
international organizations Tuesday to investigate claims that emerged about
Chinese authorities harvesting organs from detained Falun Gong members in
China.
Legislators William Lai, Tien Chiu-chin and Huang Chao-hui proposed that the
Legislative Yuan issue a resolution to urge Amnesty International and the
World Health Organization to send a task force to an alleged Chinese
concentration camp to investigate allegations that Chinese authorities are
harvesting human organs from detained Falun Gong members.
Lai urged people not to receive organ transplants in China not only because
its medical care level is not as good as in Taiwan, but also because
patients should not accept organs harvested in violation of human rights.
Falun Gong members in Taiwan claim that China is running a Nazi-style
concentration camp where around 6,000 Falun Gong members are detained, and
the harvested organs are sold to patients around the world.
LOAD-DATE: April 18, 2006
As I’ve said previously on this (click here for Kate’s initial post and discussion) I don’t trust Falun Gong. In fact, after my initial posts on this site, I received several unsolicited spam type emails from a Falun Gong practicioner.
Which would be fine if they were telling the truth about an actual concentration camp, but I do not think that they are [yes, they believe they are, but like cult members the world over, they buy into lies spread by their charismatic leader(s)].
Short answer is I liken to Falun Gong to Scientology or any other cult with a charismatic founder (Li Hongzhi — who lives in Manhattan) and while I suspect the Chinese government goes overboard in repressing them, I don’t believe the cult’s statements are fact. Epoch Times is nothing more than a cult-controlled newspaper.
I won’t respond to criticism of my statement from anyone who has not first read the previous discussion, which I conveniently linked to.
The Chinese culture is against organ donation even after demise. As a Chinese Canadian from mainland China, most of my friends are with the same background. Among them, none has signed organ donation card, not even a regular blood donor. Therefore, if China all the sudden becomes an organ exporting country, I would strongly suspect the source of the organs is not voluntary.
It is reported that in one of the ordinary hospital, the surgery of kidney transplant was performed 9 times in one day in Zhengzhou, a medium sized city in central China. The cost for one kidney is less than $10,000 CDN. One has to question where so many kidneys are coming from.
As to who can we trust, communist party or FaLunGong, one thing has been proven over and over again that is the Communist Party is capable of making the most outrageous lies, like no one was killed in Tiananmen in 1989. Therefore, when it comes to some critical events, I can never trust their statements.
It might be too early to say all the accusations about organ harvest and concentration camps are true. But the world and media should pay close attention to them.
It’s good to hear that the Chinese government isn’t harvesting as many organs from their kill-to-order program.
Another point to remember, is that the persecution of Falun Gong by the Communist Chinese has international tentacles, as documented by a US Congressional Committee investigating cases in the US.
Thanks, Kate, I agree.
The Communist Party of China also has agents in Canada (and elsewhere), definitely, and there is oppression. If only because of Falun Gong’s (its founder’s teaching on race, aliens, and homosexuality notwithstanding) position against Communism and its propaganda efforts, I am sure their practicioners are targeted, or at least monitored, abroad and in China.
As I said in the previous discussion, the Communist Party of China is the greater and deadlier evil. I am no defender of it.
Just because Communism is an evil force, though, doesn’t make cults a good one nor does it make their public propoganda arms / newspapers truth.
Not for the faint of heart. Self imobilization of falun gong practicioners in tianamen square. Suicide or homicide? You be the judge. Run time 12:34 http://fgmtv.org/videos1/2002/03/26StagedTragedy_Short_Eng/StagedTragedy_short_256k.ram
Thanks for the propaganda flick, cultist. There are naturally two sides to every story.
Which is the truth?
I don’t know. Chinese government lies, definitely. Cults lie. So… I will not join either, thank you very much.
By “Chinese government” of course I meant, “Communist Party” (to be distinguished from the free government of the Republic of China — a.k.a. Taiwan).
Chris: I don’t know if it’s real or staged either and yes there are two sides to every story, but most times the truth lies some where near the middle. And with that I give you another story and, no, I am not a propagandist for falun gong or china, perhaps this man is/isn’t. http://www.nkhumanrights.or.kr/bbs/board2/files/49_harrywu.doc
Fair enough, Greg.
This is the truth for me. The founder is a racist who believes in aliens and is opposed to homosexuals.
Being opposed to homosexuals doesn’t do anything for me because I believe in the freedom and human rights of everyone, but if that’s his view, I guess I can live with it. Many people I like and respect either 1.) don’t like gays or 2.) are gay … and live and let live.
What I hold no truck with at all is racists so screw ’em.
Do the practicioners realize he’s a racist? Pro’lly not… since this stuff is published in Chinese, not English. In English, we see the slick manipulative marketing propaganda and the illustrious Falun Gong founded Epoch Times.
Yawn.
For an alternative view on Falun Gong, feel free depending on your viewpoint to educate and or entertain yourself here or here.
One interesting quote:
“He [‘master’ Li Hongzhi] teaches his followers that
‘mixed-race people…[are] instruments of an alien
plot to destroy humanity�s link to heaven.’ And
that these interracial unions are somehow part of
‘a plot by�evil extraterrestrials.'”
Gee, I never knew that about my grandma. Thanks for the enlightenment, master.
No doubt very stange and interesting people. Amusing even. Common thread in china seems to be nothing different will be tolerated. Re-education if you fall out of line. good-nite
Nite Greg. And Jana too, if you’re out there, like you were on the previous thread (link to be found in the first comment I made).
Hilarious… I see you were busy making comments on Rick Ross’s blog site too.
Sweet.
No one ever said you weren’t good at propaganda or didn’t have a capable rapid reaction force. And thanks for the emails.
Even more lovely thoughts of “Master Li”:
In Li’s view, the races are not to be intermingled. Mixed-race children, he notes, are a symptom of societal decline. A race has its own particular ”biosphere,” and whenever children are born of a mixed-race relationship, they are ”defective persons.” Li contends that heaven itself is segregated. ”Anybody who does not belong to his race will not be cared for. I do not just say that. It is really true. I am revealing the secret of heaven to you.”
Myself, who is proudly of mixed decent, my girlfrield who is of her own unique and wondrous racial decent, and our future children who, no matter what we do including marrying “pure race persons”, will be of mixed decent, really thank you for your truthfulness, compassion, and tolerance, Falun Gong/”Master Li”.
And finally…
you can read more of Master Li’s racist, intolerant views at the BBC or Wikipedia (if the Falun Gong practicioners haven’t got to it again first) or on Intermix, a website devoted to people of mixed-race.
Good morning, people including present Falun Gong practicioners and racist (founder) apologists. Have fun!
I agree with Chris that Falun Gong is a cult, and, like all cults, based around a non-empirical self-definition of reality, isolation of its members from other people, hostility towards other people. Frankly, I think that the Chinese gov’t is absolutely correct in rejecting its existence and expansion. Its axioms of alien influences, insistence on racial purity, racial hierarchies, and so on – are not only pure nonsense – they are dangerous. Falun Gong isn’t a harmless set of benign breathing exercises; it’s a clearly defined racist ideology.
I’ve received a few nasty emails from members, when I’ve criticized Falun Gong on the Western Standard (which has a die-hard promoter as one of its posters). Press ‘delete’…
I also think that they are lying about the ‘organ harvesting from a ‘concentration camp’. After all, with a mindset that is based on total fiction (aliens, hierarchical heaven etc)…you have to consider that anything they say, follows this mode of perceiving reality.
Kate, you are right about the �long arm� of Chinese police in North America. In addition to the blackmailing, beating recorded in US congressional hearing, one thing that is often overlooked is the Communist Party�s inference on Chinese media in North America. Except the Epoch Times, almost all the Chinese newspapers I read in both Canada and US are free to criticize Falun Gong, but never reported the brutal persecution on its practitioners in China. So I found it is laughable when someone accusing Epoch Times for being biased.
Chris, I have not studied Falun Gong scribes. So I cannot tell whether your excerptions from cultnews.com is genuine teaching of the founder or not.
However, I found calling Falun Gong racist absurd. From what I read on Epoch Times, there are many interracial families among Falun Gong practitioners. The newspaper Epoch Times is published in English, Korean, French, German, Spanish, Japanese, Russian, Ukrainian, Hebrew, Romania, Bulgarian, Slovakian and Swedish. And its practitioners are with various ethical backgrounds.
Even the founder of Falun Gong disapproves homosexuality. That alone does not make it cult.
I like to judge the religion by its followers. One thing strikes me most is even Falun Gong practitioners staged hundreds protests worldwide against the brutal persecution in China, none of them was violent.
I certainly think that the Epoch Times is biased. Its agenda is unilineal- it’s against the Communist government of China, pro-Taiwan as the ‘legitimate government’; and pro-Falun Gong. Period. There’s no debate, no provision of alternate analysis, just assertions of a singular point-of-view.
Yes, I consider the Falun Gong a cult, and a dangerous one. Its axioms are completely faith-based and not open to empirical testing. This is, admittedly, the basis for most religions. What’s the difference? The fact that its axioms come from an individual rather than a collective. The fact that its axioms refer, not to the metaphysical but to the physical (race). Those two variables together: that its axioms come from a specific individual and that these axioms refer to physical realities – defines, for me, a cult-approach, in that you accept the physical axioms as metaphysical ‘truths’. But, they are not.
The ‘fact’ that their protests are not physically violent is irrelevant. Their axioms are intellectually violent, in that those axioms reject empirical evidence, reject proof, and, are openly racist. Ryan, I suggest that you actually read a bit about Falun Gong, apart from the biased Epoch Times. It’s racist, openly racist. Now, that, to me, is violence against human beings.
Ryan Shee, you wrote:
“Chris, I have not studied Falun Gong scribes
[subtext: I don’t know what I’m talking about].
So I cannot tell whether your excerptions from
cultnews.com is genuine teaching of the founder
or not.
“However, I found calling Falun Gong racist
absurd [my opinion regardless of the evidence
and my curiousity thereof]. From what I read on
Epoch Times [the newspaper founded and
dominated by Falun Gong]…
Brilliant refutation of multiple independent sources, Ryan!
I never said I knew a lot about Falun Gong, nor pretended. But I do know some practitioners in person and read Epoch Times on a regular basis. I think they are fine people and newspaper. I know people with various ethnical backgrounds practicing Falun Gong and some practitioners are interracial couples. Someone just has to do a better job to convince me they are openly racist and condemning children with multiple ethnics backgrounds.
Besides, as far as I know, no one has ever filed formal complains against Falun Gong for being openly racist in HRC. The agents for Communist Party in Canada would have jumped all over it if such allegation is with any substance.
Well, the discussion has been hijacked from beginning. Whether we think Falun Gong is cult or not is irrelevant to the original topic of alleged organ harvest.
Welp , either way , everything we buy that we can pickup has CHINA on the bottom of it.
Here’s a reporter’s first hand experience with Epoch Times:
http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-controversy.html
Ryan, I’m sorry but this is a very dishonest reply. The point is Epoch Times cried wolf with a very serious charge of “Auschwitz”.
4 million Jews died there. And Epoch Times response to US investigation is “Auschwitz vanished into thin air”.
I looked into this, our government’s investigation started on 3/14, which means Epoch’s “Auschwitz” with thousands of people including doctors, nurses, guards, equipment, supply, ration, facilities – only had 5 days to vanish.
This is science fiction.
You should be outraged with Epoch Times NY’s outlandish claim that’s now proven false. Not only have they discredited your cause, they have disrespected the Jewish people’s suffering by taking the Holocaust in vain.
As to weither organs from the condemned are taken with or without consent, I’ve prepared a blog with my research results.
More incontravertible proof that Falun Gong and Epoch Times are one in the same thing.
The protester that interrupted President Hu Jintao’s speech when he was with President George W. Bush — breaching security — was non other than a fully credentialed Epoch Times reporter who got in for that reason.
She then went on a rampage about Falun Gong.
Seriously, anyone that takes that cult newspaper as anything other than a lying apologist for Falun Gong and Li Hongzhi is crazy, dishonest, ignorant, or a member of the cult … or all four.
Here’s a Fox news video covering the Epoch Times / Falun Gong / one-and-the-same interruption.
Epoch Times – Falun Gong – Fox News Video
Drudge has more here and there is another detailed video here.
Note: If Epoch Times “reporters” are going to breach protocol and security like this, the White House should ban them from covering events in any place where high security is required. If this is how their “reporters” / Falun Gong cult members behave, they should not be allowed within a country mile of Chinese diplomats when they are in the USA or Canada and they should not be allowed near our leaders either. Not as reporters. They should be behind whatever secure ticker tape they need to be behind as protesters. And only after being subjected to significant security attention.
Charles, not sure why you think my reply very dishonest.
The US government�s “investigation” mentioned in your post is actually a day trip to several locations. I do not believe the State Department Spokesman, McCormack, called it a formal investigation.
According to Yahoo News, what isn missing from your message is:
�Despite such a finding, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters Friday that Washington has taken the Falun Gong’s charges “seriously” and has urged the Chinese government to probe the claims�
As to the comparison to Auschwitz, the context I remembered from Epoch Times was trying to illustrate that the many people in WWII, despite of many indirect evidences, would not believe the concentration camp in Auschwitz until the allied soldiers entered the camp and sent pictures back home.
As said, I do not know much about Falun Gong nor am trying to defend them. Frankly, I do not think they need to be defended. From the arguments I see here, I just do not buy the accusation that they are cultist or racists.
I think the discussion has gone far away enough from the original topic. There are plenty places you can argue about Falun Gong. I am more interested in Canadian politics here.
The delayed US investigation of Sujiatun death camp revealed no evidence. It is not surprising as the CCP had 3 weeks to clean it up and hide all evidence. According to reliable sources in mainland China, the slaughtering of the Falun Gong has begun as hospitals are advertising a rise in fresh organ availability from live donors with a couple of days waiting period–their staff is working around the clock doing organ transplants. This pretty much confirms our worst fears.
On the other hand the Coalition to Investigate the Persecution of Falun Gong has written an open letter to Bush demanding a comprehensive and independant investigation of the 36 alleged death camps as well as all the labour camps and jail in China.
And just yesterday the two witnesses, who first exposed the Sujiatun death camp, gave public testimonies in Washington DC to a rally. This is a giant step…let’s hope that nothing bad will happen to them.
Thanks to Dr. Wang Wengi’s public appeal in D.C. yesterday, now the officials should recognize the urgency of this situation and take action to stop this massacre.
The Falun Gong practitioners I know are the kindest people around and do not discriminate against anyone. They even forgive their torturers. It’s true that people should be judged by their actions; not by biased websites such as ross or wikipedia which are polluted by communist crap and hatred against Falun Gong.
Go to the official website if you want to know about the real nature of Falun Gong! http://www.faluninfo.net
The world needs more Truth-Compassion-Tolerance!
The world needs less crazy cultists like you, Makina. I’m not saying you should “go anywhere”… it’s just unfortunate you’ve given control over vast areas of your brain and huge swaths of your thinking to “Master Li”.
For the record, I don’t like “the master”.
And thank you for telling me that your cult and by extension you are “the kindest people around”. Well, gee, isn’t that swell.
While I’m at your official website, I’ll swing by Scientology’s and learn how I can clear myself of body Thetans.
Your sarcasm knows no bounds, Chris, and I know nothing I can say here will convince you that Falun Gong isn’t a cult, so I won’t even try.
But the bottom line is that, from prisoners in the laogai to Christians to Uighers to Falun Gong, the Chinese commies are killing an awful lot of people, and I think it’s a terrible shame that America is giving the dictator Hu Jintao the red carpet treatment. China needs to be held to account sooner or later, and it would be nice if that happened before all the groups the regime disapproves of are wiped out. Word has it that they want Falun Gong eradicated before the 2008 olympics–that’s a lot of killing they’ll be busy with for the next few years. Martin Luther King in his wisdom said “Injustice to one man anywhere is injustice to all men everywhere.” because he knew we’re all connected. Even if you believe Falun Gong is a cult, deep down in your heart you probably don’t really think they should all be slaughtered. Personally, I know how evil that regime in China is, and what they’re capable of, so I wasn’t really surprised when I heard about the organ-harvesting concentration camps. The truth will emerge eventually–it always does.
By the way, Steven Harper just called for an investigation into Chinese economic espionage on Canadian soil. Of course, the Chinese government denies that it’s happening.
If you read all my comments on this and the previous post that I conveniently linked to, Mary, you’d see that I agree that the Chinese commies are the greater evil and danger, that they kill (in fact, that Chinese communism has killed more people that Russian communism, which killed more people than Hitlerian fascism, that killed more people than Tojo’s Imperialism, etc.), and that they spy in Canada and elsewhere.
I’m sure they have spies in my city and I expect one or two have read this blog and perhaps commented upon a time — just like the far more numerous, organized, and equally brainwashed Falun Gong have. They’ve actually emailed me. I don’t think I’ve received emails from Chinese spies (yet).
I’m thrilled that Stephen Harper is taking that seriously.
I even think that the Chinese government persecutes Falun Gong and, as I’ve said, I oppose that.
Yet the Falun Gong is a lying cult. They exagerate endlessly and the Epoch Times is categorically a Falun Gong newspaper. Communism being evil doesn’t negate that.
Chris, I would like to say that although you know about Communist party that is evil and it killed so many more than even Hitler, but your judgmental mind telling me that the every single word of you, your opinion and your thinking is based on Communist party behavior itself. And you create an expression to audience that it seems that you know a lot. May be this is true. But I would like to tell you that what you know is the same as what Communist party keep telling the world for a long time. Be careful
, one day you will have to face yourself and in that moment you can’t escape from you yourself. You are very responsible for what you said here. It is not like someone may hunt you down. No. But one day may your conscious do. It is still not late for you to truly find out truth about the matter and stop preaching lies and misleading people. Then People including me would have more respect for you and your opinion. Also do yourself a favore and please don’t be defensive as my intention is just goodness toward you. Trust me on this. Truth will reveal itself soon and later, and I don’t want you to be in regret like many that would be in time.
Thank you
The Epoch Times has many employees who practice Falun Gong, but so what? The paper doesn’t promote the practice in any way, but what it does do is expose China’s human rights abuses–something the world needs to know given how western countries are kowtowing and compromising themselves for the trade dollars. Those who are hip to China’s agenda and Chinese overseas who have been tortured or had family members killed by the regime are actually very appreciative of what the Epoch Times is doing.
Yes, indeed, Maney… I’ve stated that Communist China is the 20th centyry’s most destructive evil force on the planet, so naturally, all of my thoughts, “every single word of you, your opinion and your thinking is based on Communist party behavior itself”.
If you’ll mosey on down to Jason Cherniak’s blog (I don’t think you will, until I taunted you just now, because “truth” isn’t your driving force… not truth as in empircal truth, rather truth as in the ravings of your evil lunatic Master), you’ll discover that, unusual for someone with an infantry background, I advocate devoting the bulk of our procurement energy on our air force and navy just in case we have to join with our allies in thwacking our enemies from overseas (and seizing control of sea lanes).
The enemy I had chiefly in mind with their rapid military modernization and expansion, for the first time in history including a capable white water navy, was China… but there’s always more of those.
I think you’re thinking is based on “Master Li’s” to a far greater degree than mine is on Chairman Mao’s or Hu Jintao’s. You and your fellow cultists, for example, are frequently spouting the views, even the language and catch phrases, of that Manhattan-based egoist.
I don’t, in any way, hate Falun Gong practicioners. Really. There are many lying cults in the world, which I will criticize strongly, but I see no point in hating its members. Most of them have no idea what “Master Li’s” teachings on race are, for example, or if they do know, have been manipulated, using very advanced psychological control techniques, into thinking this makes sense or is in any way acceptable.
I believe they should be free to practice their religion / spiritual movement / newspaper / exercise program, whatever. I view them like all religions except… theirs is lead by a charismatic, racist, crazy, and manipulative man… who is dangerous.
Like all cults, there is brainwashing involved. With the Epoch Times adding to the mix in addition to the rantings of deranged and crafty “Master Li”, you can also add wild distortion, skilled propaganda, and outright lying to the mix.
China has come out against Falun Gong and given their track record, I suspect there is some persecution, political imprisonment, and even the odd government-sanctioned murder which takes place.
All of these, if true, are horrible. But the wild, outrageous, discredited, and unsubstantiated “big lie” propaganda emanating from Epoch Times about massive concentration camps – despite that no other organization or group has provided any proof of such camps, that many Chinese pro-Democracy activists step back from your over-the-top alarmism because they know how nutty your group is, and there is evidence to the contrary – do not help your cause.
If your members didn’t approach me with manipulative slick skilled psychological influence techniques and spouting the same or suspiciously similar words and demonstrating similar emotional reactions, which lead me to suspect brainwashing… I might be more inclined speak positively of you.
As it is, I consider Falun Gong dangerous and your leader despicable.
Anyway, you cannot win an argument with someone who has largely turned their rational mind over to the hypnotic value-crushing techniques of a cult. What I’m writing here is for people who still possess control of their reasoning.
Chris’s posts are just dripping with negativity about Falun Gong, so for those who aren’t sure what to think I’d like to balance that a bit. When I started practicing over four years ago I had a myriad of health problems including depression, to the point where I was becoming suicidal. In other words, I was a mess and had no quality of life. Slowly but surely as I practiced over the years my health and mental state improved to the point that I’m now well and have a sense of well-being I couldn’t even imagine before. Of course, Chris will say I’ve been brainwashed into it, but I’m completely clear-headed and know very well that that’s not the case.
As for Chris’ accusation that Falun Gong is racist, the fact is that there are many inter-racial marriages between Chinese and western practitioners, just as there are many mixed-race practitioners. And the Falun Gong teacher, Master Li, has been nominated three times for the Nobel peace prize.
After Jiang Zemin started the persecution in 1999, the massive communist propaganda machine kicked into high gear and spread lies and hate about Falun Gong in China and around the world, including saying it’s a cult and much worse besides. Of course, none of that’s true, they just said it to justify the persecution. They thought they’d have it wiped out in three months; almost seven years later, the torturing and killing are still going on. Not only are they causing untold suffering to countless innocent people, but in the process they’re incurring some heavy-duty karma for themselves.
Ryan and Makina. I am not here to change your minds, but to tell the facts I have discovered.
Unlike those who made the “Sujiatun concentration camp” allegation, everything I cite is verifaible:
From speaking with The Australian reporter and congressional staffer, US government’s investigation started 2nd week of March, ended with the consular visit on March 21. You can call them yourselves.
Which means “Auschwitz”, thousands including doctors, nurses, gurads, equipments, supply, ration, facilities – only had 5 days to vanish into thin air.
What Epoch claims is science fiction.
You should be outraged by this outlandish claim. Not only did Epoch Times NY discredited your cause, they also disrespected the Jewish people’s suffering by taking the Holocaust in vain.
Hi Bobby and Charles,
You might want to check this report from Representative Chris Smith who’s taking the Epoch Times allegations seriously. He’s with the Global Human Rights US subcommittee.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/smith200604200556.asp
A coalition to investigate the persecution of Falun Gong (CIPFG) has recently been formed which calls for a comprehensive and independant investigation of all the labour camps where it is believed that organ harvesting is common practice.
The show-tour investigation at Sujiatun that you’re talking about was arranged by the Communist Party and, of course, has revealed no evidence due to the fact that the CCP cleaned it all up before hand.
The CIPFG will make sure that this sort of thing doesn’t happen again as it proves to be nothing but a waste of time and just makes the CCP look good while the mass-killing is going on in the backroom.
The CIPFG has demanded a thorough investigation without the participation of the CCP.
One more thing — this is the kind of reaction that will get some results down the road. The CCP cannot keep on with this killing spree that has gone unchecked for over 55 years. It’s totally going against the law of heaven and earth.
Copyright 2006 Central News Agency
All Rights Reserved
Central News Agency – Taiwan
April 18, 2006 Tuesday 3:50 PM TST
LENGTH: 166 words
HEADLINE: DPP LAWMAKERS URGE PROBE INTO ALLEGATIONS OF CHINA
ORGAN-HARVESTING
BYLINE: Taijing Wu
DATELINE: Taipei, April 18
One more thing–this is the kind of reaction that will get positive results down the road. The CCP cannot keep up their killing spree that has gone unchecked for the last 55 years.
Copyright 2006 Central News Agency
All Rights Reserved
Central News Agency – Taiwan
April 18, 2006 Tuesday 3:50 PM TST
LENGTH: 166 words
HEADLINE: DPP LAWMAKERS URGE PROBE INTO ALLEGATIONS OF CHINA
ORGAN-HARVESTING
BYLINE: Taijing Wu
DATELINE: Taipei, April 18
Hi Chris,
Congratulation. You won. You defend yourself very good. I’m sure you feel stronger than before; especially you choose some impressive words to further judge and disrespect. And your knowledge and certainty about who is who is also astonishing. Let me see. Oh…You feel very right too. Well, y
I believe there is a higher principle called “No loss no gain”. One meaning of this I think is if you gain something then you must lose something. That is also happening in our daily life like invisible Law that governs our relationship.
I think in this blog you gain all these above that I explained. Then accordingly you must loose something. The only question is if you can effort that lost. My friend you lost your freedom. Can you figure that out or do you want me to explain. Let me give you a hint. A person who has hate and full of negativity toward something or someone is actually in the prison made of condense dark energy that eating body cell like cancer and keep the spirit in agitating and destructive mood with no way out.
Unless you calm down and be respectful to yourself first and then to others I see there is no point to even write to you here. After all you won�t be able to realize that I actually want you all goodness. I can have that feeling toward you because I�m on the path to freedom, and I already experiencing this kind of feeling. I still have a way to go.
There are numerous choices in our life for us to choose in any giving moment. But I think in truth we have only one choice and that is to be positive. Even to be positive toward negative in worse case. I hope you understand me. I know you can if you try. But please be righteous, and have some trust in me that I like only goodness for you.
All I like to see in you is that have some respect for yourself. Try to be noble. Nobility is closer to our true nature.
Note: I�m not asking you to superficially have some respect for any specific figure. I�m Just asking you to put some effort and truly find out truth of matter at least for yourself. Have some thought from your own true self but not from accumulation mix with different intention from others. I�m asking you take some step to be free of other thought that are not from you.
Maney
Hi Chris.
I had a chance to live under Vietnamese Communist regime for 7 years, in which I witnessed many killings, deceptions, imprisoned, tortured….things like what we heard about Russian under Stalin. I was going thru these stuffs. In fact, I was put in labor camp, too for 2+ years after that I escaped from it and then I was hiding myself for 18 months before I could escape to Hongkong by boat. At the time, the Vietnamese always say “Don’t believe anything the Communist say, just look at what they do” and “if every lamp post could walk, they would run out of the country”. These are from people, common people on the street, not from any organization, any leader…The experience of living under Com. regime is too much to say, too much to cry; they do all the terrible things behind closed door; killing witness if any; that’s why the world never really knows what’s happening. The CCP is not difference, in fact, it’s even worse. The incident of Tianman Square on June 4, 89, in which the students were shot and killed by Chinese armed force as we watched on CNN, but the CCP says those students were attacking the army! Who do you believe?
Ha, are you sure your TAM fact is correct? Have you seen PBS’ “The Tank Man” segment aired recently? The students were not massacared, but allowed to leave TAM square peacefully after the troops arrived:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/
The Frontline segment als presented the Chinese government’s casualty figure of 250 dead. I don’t know if you ever researched this, but this figure is actually in-line with our NSA estimate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiananmen_Square_protests_of_1989
The PBS documentary dispelled the myth that students were “massacred” on TAM square grounds. If you haven’t seen this you should. The documentary interviewed Journalists who were on the ground, as well as footages of thousands of students leaving the TAM square.
Actually, I have read this from another source years ago, from Columbia Univ. School of Journalism:
http://archives.cjr.org/year/98/5/tiananmen.asp
“as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.
A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully.
Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.”
[Just for reference, throwing molotov cocktail at riot police is a crime in US.]
And Jay Mathews� intention is clear:
�Journalists have to be precise about where it happened and who were its victims, or readers and viewers will never be able to understand what it meant.�
Dear Bobby Fletcher aka Charles Liu,
Take five to read these reports from the free world–you are reading too much stuff from People’s Daily. You will never get any real news out of that and those Xinhua Agency/CCTVs either. Simply because it is all (CCP) state-controlled. The CCP doesn’t believe in freedom of speech…don’t you know? Bobby you’ve been brainwashed! The CCP denies everything–same as you do.
China censors CNN over Tiananmen
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:cr2X7t0lCCUJ:foi.missouri.edu/newsmgmtabroad/china.html+CNN+Tiananmen+1989&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=21
The Chinese people did not see the tens of thousands of demonstrators crowding central Beijing and occupying Tiananmen Square for seven weeks.
They also did not see how the protest movement was violently suppressed by military tanks and troops 15 years ago on June 4.
Nowadays CNN broadcasts in China are available mostly in hotels and apartment compounds for foreigners, as well as in select government agencies and academic institutions.
As people around the world remember the crackdown, China has kept a tight reign on demonstrations at Tiananmen Square this week.
————–
Check Lu Decheng�s story who just arrived in Canada.http://www.peacehall.com/news/gb/english/2006/04/200604150935.shtml
�Mr. Lu is one of three young men who hurled paint at the Mao portrait in 1989, after they joined the student protests on Tiananmen Square. The three men were given heavy prison sentences, ranging from 16 years to life. One of the three, Yu Dongyue, was driven insane by his lengthy punishment, which included years of torture and solitary confinement.�
—————
Check the special edition on CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/tiananmen/
In response to the mixed race issue of Falun Gong. I practice Falun Gong and so does my wife. I am caucasian, she is chinese. We may have kids one day as well. I know the teachings of Falun Gong well and they can be used out of context. I have friends and family who are of mix race and I have never looked at them with anything less than compassion and respect. I practice Falun Gong and this is my honest view. As I said, quotes can easily be taken out of context to serve whoever is using them. In my opinion a person should be judged by his character and actions and his degree of compassion.
Maakina, I cited PBS and Columbia Journal Review. They are “reports from the free world”, not PD.
Where’s your Truth?
Makina, not only does your DPP/Taiwanese announcements not help prove Epoch NY’s “Auschwitz” cry wolf – they help to support the allegation that FLG had hooked up with Taiwanese government to fight the Taiwan Independence War in US public opinion front.
I grew up in Taiwan under KMT’s anti-communism indoctrination, and the latest claim sounds prett much the same as those “shoeless, tattered clothing, Mainland compatriots boiling in the Big Pot of communism” anti-communist imagery from decades ago.
It doesn’t surprise me one bit. I’ve been very suspicious of this; what we are seeing today is basically rehash of what some of us were taught
in Taiwan by KMT decades ago.
Like the Cultural Revolution era tall tale about people sentenced to vivisection because mere death sentence wasn’t vicious enough for the commies.
Sorry to be off topic, but here are some awsome articles on the Tiananmen Massacre. They can all be found on the same link. The first piece is from Wu Guoguang who was speechwriter to Zhao Ziyang in 1989. He teaches now at the University of Victoria, BC.
Fear and Loathing: A Recipe for Chaos To be truly healthy, China needs to begin political reform
By WU GUOGUANG
http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/magazine/dateline/0,8782,94728,00.html
This had to happen: Deng Xiaoping and elders cracked down to ensure their own survival, says Jonathan Mirsky, a journalist specializing in China. His reporting from Tiananmen in 1989 won him the British International Journalist of the Year award
Revolution’s Dark Legacy
The primal fears of Communist elders spawned a blood-soaked tragedy
By JONATHAN MIRSKY
The Ghosts of Tiananmen
Tiananmen Square was eerily quiet on June 4, 1989, just after PLA soldiers killed hundreds of protesters. How the tragedy still haunts China’s leaders
By ALLEN T. CHENG and TIM HEALY
Perhaps it is Hatien Phan who needs to read your “awsome articles” that also show “students were shot and killed by Chinese armed force” to be a myth.
And per my citations of “reports from the free world” PBS and Columbia Journal Review, the Chinese government did investigate this tragic event in their history, and released casualty figure in line with US intel estimate.
Bobby, if you want to live in delusion believing nobody was killed in Tiananman Square that day, go ahead. But what about the hundreds, possibly thousands, of peasants who were mowed down in different areas of China last year alone simply for protesting the misappropriation of their land? You’re standing up for a murderous regime that doesn’t value human life in the least and has perpetrated untold suffering on the people of China. You need to give your head a shake.
Mary, I’m simply point out the facts. If you are so delusional to say PBS and Columbia Journal Review is CCP propagana, nobody can stop you.
Mary, I’m sure it’s very emotionally satisfying to see China and the Chinese government as a static entitiy.
I have never said nobody was killed. No the Chinese government has not said that either, as the PBS documentary reproted the Chinese government’s investigation and casualty count of 250.
Here’s what Columbia Journal Review said:
http://archives.cjr.org/year/98/5/tiananmen.asp
“as far as can be determined from the available evidence, no one died that night in Tiananmen Square.
A few people may have been killed by random shooting on streets near the square, but all verified eyewitness accounts say that the students who remained in the square when troops arrived were allowed to leave peacefully.
Hundreds of people, most of them workers and passersby, did die that night, but in a different place and under different circumstances.”
[Just for reference, throwing molotov cocktail at riot police is a crime in US.]
And Jay Mathews� intention is clear:
�Journalists have to be precise about where it happened and who were its victims, or readers and viewers will never be able to understand what it meant.�
I think you are the kind of ignorant mass Jay Mathews was talking about.