That's appalling. How is this not being discussed in the media?

Uhmm, I am unspeakably saddened, I ..... Thank you for sharing this, the world needs to know.

http://www.fofg.org/ This is a link I found after reading the links in your blog. It gives some interesting info about the Falun Gong.

Respectfully Mark

welcome to the brave new world where the meek shall inherit the earth by their sheer numbers

Communist's of all stripes with their thuggish proclivites never change. Putin has resurrected show trials, the silencing of the press and is systematically dismantling democracy under his reign.

Mikhail Kordorkovsky's unfair imprisonment is shades of Stalin's regime.

Mohammed and Marx were cut from the same diabolical cloth. Twin evils that keep on terrorizing humanity.

It's the western appeasers and apologists that I despise more than anything.

How about those helping enable tyranny on a smaller but no less brutal scale? How many Canadians and Europeans go to Communist Cuba for cheap tropical vacations?

This is one of the principle sources of hard currency of the Castro regime. Every Canadian or European tourist going there is financially aiding and abetting the Cuban Communist tyranny, helping finance Castro's Gulag for prisoners of conscience, and the ongoing oppression of the Cuban people.

...not to mention selling cadavers of political prisoners who, uh, died unexplainably.

Lost Budgie had links regarding this issue awhile back...makes you sick.

http://lostbudgie.blogspot.com/2005/09/executed-chinese-in-toronto-body.html

It is not yet proven,but if indeed true,this would be further proof that we are selling our souls by conducting international trade
with this regime.

And we are responsible for the deaths of millions of Iraqi children due to bombs and anti-free trade measures.

Maybe we should invade China and force our values on the people as we are clearly so much better.

i suppose the only thing next that could happen(which would not suprise me..) is if the Chinese end up eating each other..What happens when a mass of humanity can no longer feed itself? shades of soylent green..

btw,while there were many cases of disturbed people doing despicable acts in concentration camps,(while in positions of authority) it is generally accepted that the Russians invented the myth of soap made from humans.

Troll alert: Two Sides(Jose, is that you?).

New name, but a reincarnation of which usual suspect?

No food for you.

Sickening.

"Two sides" is quite obviously the obligatory moral relativist in the debate, who can't see that selling the organs of those you've murdered is slightly naughty.

This is very disturbing ! A friend of mine and several others from my home town have been working in China for the past several years building large construction projects, mainly huge hotel complexes. From some of the stories I have heard from them, this does sound likea possible event. As has been mentioned, it has not yet been proven to be true so we can only hope that mankind has evolved to a higher level... mind you, we see sickening things coming from Afghanistan and Iraq that makes one also wonder about the barbarian levels that man can stoop to,in this case in the name of religion. Attila the Hun would be proud!

If not the organs of those you murdered, then whose??

sarc/off

We actively support several such regimes that show no effort to try to make things better.

I agree. the moral relativists make me sick.

Our way is better. Why? If you have to ask that, you have a serious problem.

I am no Christian fanatic, but I thank God or my lucky stars or something that we were colonized under Christian influence. It sure makes being a heathen a lot more comfortable.

Once in a while, the Chinese Communist Government is right.

Here's a fairly balanced view of Falun Gong from the San Jose Mercury News:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/fa_lun_gong/falun249.html

Note especially that this "religion" which uses the swastika (yes yes, don't tell me that the swastika has other meanings; I know that) as part of its emblem has particularly unpalatable views on race. Worse, this "religion" deceptively only publishes its objectionable racial teachings in Chinese — they are apparently very unwilling to have them questioned in English.

I agree with the Communist Chinese Government that it is a dangerous and deceptive cult - the mother and 12-year old girl who were among 5-practicioners to commit suicide in Tiananmen Square are among my reasons for this.

Now, getting to the alleged concentration camp...

Kate, here's a more direct link to an Epoch Times article that discusses the barbaric (is barbaric the right word? or is it more like Hitlerian or even futuristic nightmarish modernity?) practices you mention:

http://english.epochtimes.com/news/6-3-11/39169.html

I hope to God it's not true as much as I fear it is. One thing I will invite everyone to consider is that the article that Kate linked to begins with an assertion widely made yet now believed to be false: That the Nazis mass produced soap from Jewish victims' fat.

It is true that it was not uncommon (according to survivors and I believe them) for German Civilians to taunt concentration camp inmates with sadistic threats of being made into soap; however there is no proof that this was actually done. Nor does it mainly appear to be a Russian propaganda as kursk says above. Rather, the rumor spread because it had a grain of truth — the sick taunts of some German civilians.

So since the article started with a falsehood and is uncorroborated, let’s not automatically assume it is true. And yet these sort of things have happened in the past. Let’s not try to convince ourselves that it is so brutal that it can’t be true.

It may.

If this is a fact that Sujiatun is an evil barbaric government run mass-murdering concentration camp then I think that is abhorrent and the Chinese Government must be opposed, ostracized, and humiliated for its cruelty in no uncertain terms.

I don't have to agree with either someone's religion or its racial views (which many of Falun Gong practitioners I'm certain don't even know about) to believe that they must be treated humanely. If the Government wants to oppose the religion/cult, I see their point.

However, I believe very strongly in freedom of religion and I wish the Chinese Government would respect this and punish actual crimes — not thought or free practice of religion.

Every religion has its odd thoughts, which is why I remain someone who passionately loves the creator of all life, God, and that which is GOOD... yet I don't go to any church or subscribe to any faith. Essentially, any religion, which could have ever advocated stoning a man because he's gay (Falun Gong's founder, Li Hongzhi, is strongly opposed to homosexuality too in addition to his views on racial purity and aliens) is a religion I can't be part of — no matter how much I agree with it on so many other things.

Sujiatun needs to be investigated thoroughly and immediately. Given the brutal history of the Chinese Communist Party, particularly under Mao Zedong, nothing would surprise me less than this happening today.

I would advocate for a complete end to doing business with this Evil Empire.

The CCP cannot be trusted.

It's time for the Free World to remove its collective head from its anus and realize China is a grave international threat. Why else is everything they do today oriented towards making money to feed its ballooning military and apparently prepare for a Hitlerian run at world domination? The parallels are indubitable.

We must necessarily assume the concentration camps are real. We didn't know for sure of the Nazi ones 'till following WWII.

Down with Chinese, and all, communism.

Up with freedom, democracy and the rule of law!

Penny, It's the western appeasers and apologists that I despise more than anything.

I couldn't agree more. You can tolerate your enemy but you can never forgive a traitor, in this case traitors to our Western values.

And the Olympics were awarded to Bejing because......??????

None of this is new. The Chinese government has been harvesting its political dissidents for quite a while now. The story has been broken several times but its never gained much traction.

I'm optimistic that the days of the Chinese oligarchy are numbered. Cellular telephones have transformed China and they're just starting to discover the internet. I might be dreaming but I'd like to think that the Chinese government's position is untenable in the long term. I'd like to think that someone of them might one day answer for dissecting political dissidents for profit but I think that's a too much to hope for.

But human rights begins at home. We here in the west would be able to criticize others with more authority if our own human rights records were spotless. Unfortunately they're not.

Penny "It's the western appeasers and apologists that I despise more than anything."

1. China isn't a communist country.
2. The left doesn't apologize for China. Most of the pro-Chinese democracy noises are being made by moonbats.

Jose- do you grow that stuff yourself? Like, if China is not Communist, then who is? I often wonder, when I read your posts, if you are just really stupid... or if you are just playing with our minds and trying to piss some people off. Some of your comments are really too stupid for normal troll trash.

I agree that China is a changing economy and the Chinese people are finding out just how much they like money. They really like it in fact. China is going to be a major force in the world, and it is going to be the new Japan, only many times bigger in both size and population. One thing that many do not realize is that there is a large number of people in China with amazing wealth.

I have heard estimates that China will produce 10% of the world's cars within 10 years. That sounds like more layoffs to me in Southern Ontario.
China is sending huge delegations to Canada and USA to study our agriculture practices. Actually, I have been contacted personally by a Mongolian government offical and I met with him last fall. He said that China would be developing a beef industry in Mongolia in the next few years and they would have several hundred million to spend on establishing it. I took this guy to a fur store where he purchased 3 fur coats for just over $15,000 and he paid for them in cash. In case you are wondering, he bought three... one for himself, one for his wife, and one for his mistress. Canadians who work in China are often approached by Chinese people who will offer them large sums of money , in return for them sourcing small businesses for them. For example, many are willing to pay $500,000 US for a small rundown cafe, and are willing to sell it back to the original owner for next to nothing, in 3 or 4 years. This allows them to get into Canada and allows them enough time to get some other family members over here as well.

Is it that far a stretch for these people to sell body parts from prisoners and such, when you can walk into a food market in any Chinese town and see rows of dogs in crates, ready to be purchased for supper. Most of these dogs have had their legs broken so that they cannot get away. For a small extra charge they will kill your purchase right in front of you, so that it is easier to carry it home. There are few surprises from societies that possess such brutalities.

Trade in body parts is hardly limited to China, the US is also dealing with this type of problem. Let's be honest, if there's a market, surely there will be a supplier. How many of you have signed an organ donor card? How many of you would refuse a liver or a kidney for yourselves or a close relative if death was avoidable through a transplant? I thought so.

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/LAW/03/14/body.parts.ap/index.html

Yes, back in the day when Mao was alive they were killing far more people than now. Probably the softening of communism had something to do with the decreasing death rates

Jose,
How do you keep it all straight? Your grasp on reality is amazing.

There never has been true communism but you split hairs. The brutal dictatorship with unfettered powers that is China compares in no way to Canada. Dream all you like but nothing approaches government sancioned harvesting of humans. The "human rights" abuses in Canada are all in the minds of deluded fools such as yourself.

You really should be ashamed of yourself. Keep on spouting your philosophy. Canadians are starting to catch on to what your type really believes.
enough

Alta Girl: China is getting the Olympics because of the dollar.

China, like Japan, control the flow of the dollar. One hopes with the Olympic's the eyes of the average Chinese will open wider and demand a better way of living.

I always wondered the people working in the puppy mill sweatshops building computers, sterio's, and TV's, as well as $400 running shoes every wished they could go to the places the stuff they make is being sold...

My TinFoil Hat is shiny today

Considering the mess our health care system is in and with all the people dying on waiting lists, aren't we close to implementing the same kind of thing here in Canada.
Anybody dies in a jail or a hospital or on the street is up for grabs.
Implement this kind of law in a state with capital punishment?

Ugh... I can't believe I'm doing this, but I agree with Jose.

The reality is that the Chinese Government is almost daily putting down riots, sit-ins, protest marches, small rebellions in the western states, and simply preventing it from coming to the forefront of the mass media.

Their grasp is slipping, and they are very worried. It's a dynamic they haven't really been able to model that is screwing them up. Simply put, there's 1.3 billion people in China, and only 250 million of them enjoy something close to what we would consider a "Western" lifestyle.

In Beijing, the average wage is roughly 2000 Can. per month, which is very high by the standards of the Chinese, but the moment you begin to head west, the worse the standards of living become. Bejing, hell the whole east coast of China for that matter, is an interesting dichotomy relative to the true standards of living in the rest of the country.

Beijing University is one to envy, Beijing University Hospital would make most Western Doctors truly drool with envy. Housing is comparable in pricing to here at home. Couple of thousand square feet is going to cost you $250K to $500K US, not $Cdn.

These are juxta positioned against the Communist credo of everyone having a job, and 3 squares, and education... etc. One of the main reasons the East part of the country does so well is there is no need to save. Once you have your home, which is guaranteed one way or the other (most living in state apartments) you spend, spend, spend.

Get away from the east coast and the scenario changes dramatically, with standards of living decreasing in direct relation to distance from the coast.

There's a restaurant in downtown Beijing which caters only to Government officials, and it costs around 100k for a meal. The corruption inside the machine is on a scale which almost defies your average Canadians imagination.

You think Adscam was bad. That's how you start your morning out in China if you do business with the Government, or need something from them. Million here with coffee, couple of million to the dude your having mid-morning tea with, suddenly this gets stamped, that work order is processed. Few more million to this guy over here after you buy him a 5K sushi lunch, and viola, the dock workers are unloading your boat by 3pm, except the Dock Forman got cut out of the loop, so you pitch him a couple three grand to get the boys back at it.

They only issue 12,000 drivers license's a year in China... guess what you have to do to be one of those 12,000 applicants?

The only thing I do admire is the way they deal with crime... zero, and I do mean zero tolerance. If your a North American and you find yourself in an alley being mugged, fight like you've never fought before, because your dead anyway. The penalty for accosting a westerner is death, so the mugger doesn't fuck around. Leave no witness's is their credo. If you finger them they are going to get shot anyway, so they have nothing to lose.

The good news for your family is the Chinese Government will leave no stone unturned finding your killer.

They are the most practical society on earth, and there is much to admire as well as despise. If your a criminal sentenced to death, you dig your own grave just before they shoot you. Then they send a bill to your family for .15 cents US, because they recoup the cost of the bullet.

So hearing that they use prisoners organs is not a surprise to me. In fact, I know a fellow who is considered one of their premier Lung Surgeons, and he as much as admitted it. His success ratio with lung transplants makes the US attempts look like mickey mouse time. He can now pretty assure you of 5 more years of life.

Given that they kill around 2000 to 3000 prisoners a year, in a population of close to a billion and a half, the numbers are not really huge. I know that sounds callous, but you have to look at it from the statistical aspect.

I'll tell you another thing, if you have been sentenced to death in China, it is extremely unlikely you didn't deserve it. The Chinese don't kill people without making sure they got the right guy. Unlike the US.

The Chinese have countless ways of making your life infinitely more painful to live, then the expediency of putting a bullet in your head. That would be too simple sometimes.

Regardless, the Government there is struggling, and its only the PLA that keeps them in power. The day the army turns, is the day the world should worry.

A China at war with itself is a problem for all of us.

Dang my link didn't work.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060215/ca_pr_on_he/ont_organ_donations

It's a link to the proposal in ontario regarding presumed consent for organ donations.

The China I worry about is a fascist nationalist China. A military led country, with a fascist zeal, would be more dangerous that anything I can imagine. The only way states like that survive is to be in constant conflict with someone. The people need to be distracted, like the Iraqis under Saddam.

I'd watch China very closely.

I don't think thats a huge worry Clunk, the Chinese don't go to war unless you give them a reason. Sort of like poking a bee hive. They only attack if they perceive a threat to their territorial boundries.

The Chinese are not expansionist by nature.

I know, I know, what about Tibet. They perceive places such as Tibet as part of China. They wouldn't for example bother invading India, they don't want it. They wouldn't invade Canada.

They will most definately invade Tiawan if they attempt to declare formal independance. They invaded Korea, because from the Chinese viewpoint, the world in Korea is a prelude tantamount to an actuality of an invasion into to China.

Long and short of it is as long as you don't park an army in Southeast Asia of any significant strength, the Chinese won't pay attention to you.

I should mention that the Lung Surgeon I mentioned uses lungs from prisoners who have been excuted.

I never really got whether this was a voluntary donation or not, but I did get the distinct impression that the harvesting of the organs was sort of a way for the soon-to-be departed to provide for their family.

The reason for the high success ratio is actually the quality of the donor. Essentially, with 2 to 3 thousand to choose from a year, he can select the best for the purpose of transplant.

Morbid I know, but there's a certain logic to the whole thing.

I've never heard reference to things like giant labor camps, unless perhaps chain gangs, and they certainly don't number in the millions. That's sort of hard to hide these days.

The Chinese might be a little cold hearted in some respects, but they are not, in my experience, a cruel people in any fashion.

Errr, Kate. The Nazi render human fat to make soap is urban legend from WWII. Not this excuses or diminishes the horrors the Nazi did to the Jews, but there is no need to invent history when the history of the event is already horrific enough. Just an FYI, care on.

Z.

William,

RE; "The Chinese don't kill people without making sure they got the right guy. Unlike the US."

Your Aunty American is showing. sarc

What innocent person has the USA executed?

I'm not anti American, I hold dual citizenship.
That doesn't change the fact that people have been executed in the States erroniously, the guy born in Manitoba, can't think of his name off the top of my head, executed when a stay was requested pending DNA test results, and he was done anyway. The DNA showing him innocent.

There's been ton's of stories about the Justice system in Texas.

I'm not saying the Chinese are perfect, I'm sure they've toasted the wrong guy more than once. Generally though, from my experience, they tend to be more diligent.

Over there the assumption is your guilty, and you have to prove your innocence. They don't just blithy execute people.

I'm not suggesting the US does either, but I believe the US justice system makes more mistakes. The US fry's as many as the Chinese each year, or close to if not more. Yet the Chinese have a population 4 times greater.

I'd say they are more judicious in the use of the death penalty than the American system, and when they do hand the sentence down, they don't make the poor bastard sit on deathrow for decades.

I'm not sure of my own sentiments on the death penalty, but I think it's inhuman to give the sentence, and not carry it out quickly. If there's no question of guilt, there's no reason to delay.

Re: "Urban legend" of German concentration camps.

I have seen the movies and the pictures of the liberation of these camps and have had the honour of knowing some of the American soldiers who liberated them.

Piles of human hair and teeth (and much worse) were there.

That said, they are communist, so who know's how many get popped unofficially.

It really matters not a wit, they could be melting people down for candle wax 24x7, and we will still do business with them.

We'll be holding our nose's, but we will still do business with them.

The US can't afford not to. Who would pay for all the social programs if not for the Chinese or japanese.

Want to see life get shitty in the US overnight, cut off the Chinese access to our markets. You'd destroy the US in under a fortnight.

In China?? Your telling me you've seen pictures from our boys showing piles of human remains as they return from China?

Prove it. Show me some of these pictures. That's the biggest load of crap I've ever heard.

If you mean Vietnam, or Korea, that's a little different, but I'd like to see something from China.

If only because I sincerely doubt the Chinese government would be stupid enough to leave anything incriminating around in their own backyard.

Sorry Bozo, I misread that, I thought you were referring to China

According to Amnesty International, China executed at least 3,400 people in 2004. The USA executed 59. In 2005, the USA executed 60 people, I didn't find stats for China, but I would expect the number is in the thousands. China has about five times the population of the USA, so the per capita rates are not even close.

Also, I know of no proven executions of the innocent in the USA in the last 30 years. Opponents of the death penalty have been looking hard, and have yet to come up with one. Their last attempt had his DNA evidence tested posthumously, and it wound up confirming he was guilty.

Re: Innocents executed in the USA.

I am just asking you to name ONE William.

I think that there actually are none, zero that is.

Believe me, we would all know his name if the USA was proven to have executed an innocent person.

I know you are dual.

Lots of anti-Americans I know are American.

They are often also known as DemoRATS. -sarc

Enough "The brutal dictatorship with unfettered powers that is China compares in no way to Canada."

Sorry but you misunderstand me. I think Canada is a highly ethical country. My criticism was directed towards the neoconservative ideology. And no I don't equate neocons with china.

Is your moral argument that as long as you're more ethical than a vivisectionist you're a ok?

Cjunk "The only way states like that survive is to be in constant conflict with someone. The people need to be distracted, like the Iraqis under Saddam."

Are you sure you're not actually thinking of the neocons? You may want to check the copyright of the memes you're turning over.

Well, I can't really find any, since you challenged me too.

Honestly Bozo, I'm no expert on this, I'm just going on what I've read, an example is the guy from Manitoba. I hadn't been aware of the follow-up story.

I still have my doubts as to whether its ever happened or not. I know in Canada that is the exact reason there is no death penalty.

Regardless, as I say I'm still not decided on the death penalty, part of me agree's, part doesn't.

My Chinese buddy just corrected me regarding the drivers license thing on China too. It's by city, so for example in Bejing, there might be 12,000 licenses available, and they are bought up by dealerships, who then auction them off. I guess it's more of a municipal thing than a state thing.

IMHO, the EXACT reason in Canada that there is no death penalty is the death penalty is not a provincial jurisdiction (it is a state jurisdiction).

If votes in regard to a death penalty were held provincially I believe there could be a death penalty in Canada.

Many Canadians would like to see murderers like the Vancouver "pig farmer" pay "the ultimate price".

Not to play devils advocate here bozo, but Piggy Pickton hasn't even gone to trial yet. You might want to see a guilty verdict before you start yanking out the rope.

I do think it's a fair question, do we let one innocent man hang, so that we can rid ourselves of 99 guilty ones?

I have zero issue with toasting someone who is without question, without absolute question, found guilty, but if there is any doubt, no matter how small, then the death penalty should never be used. Otherwise we are no better than the criminal.

I don't know if I'd agree that there'd be some provinces that would allow the death penalty. I think Canadians as a whole wouldn't be terribly comfortable with that.

Maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

Well, some provinces have Starlight Tours. Seems to please some at least.

William "I have zero issue with toasting someone who is without question, without absolute question, found guilty, but if there is any doubt, no matter how small, then the death penalty should never be used. Otherwise we are no better than the criminal."

Its a rare moment that I agree with you but this is one of those times. Numerous eye witnesses and loads of evidence (say Nuremberg) combined with a heinous crime warrant the noose. A single eye witness and a few bits of forensics, both of which are more unreliable than people realize should warrant time in a can just in case the state got it wrong.

Ultimately I want to limit the state's power of life and death over people as much as possible. Because history tells us that they'll eagerly take up as much slack as their populations are willing to give them.

William MacDonnell posted: "The US fry's as many as the Chinese each year, or close to if not more".

Since executions resumed in the US in 1979, a total of 1003 persons have been executed; with an average of less than 40 annually, that's hardly comparable to the Chinese rate. (sourced from: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/exetab.htm).

He also stated: "I think it's inhuman to give the sentence, and not carry it out quickly..."

The principal reason for the delays is because of the appeals brought by those convicted! I'm sure that the US authorities would dearly love to speed up the process, since, last time I looked, the average delay in carrying out the execution was 12 years and roughly $7 million cost for state-funded appeals.

William;Re: the death penalty. I have to agree with your point that if there is ANY doubt whatsoever the death penalty should not enforced. But why in hell do we not have a real life sentence for those who have been found guilty?
One of B.C.'s finest citizens, David Shearing, of the Johnson/Bentley multiple murders fame, is due for outright release in the next couple of years. This fucking maniac murdered the parents and grandparents of two little girls, then held them captive for a week while he raped them. When he was finally caught, he confessed the whole thing. The son of a bitch tried to change his name a few years ago, but fortunately Reform justice critic Randy White( God bless him) heard about it and raised hell. Corrections Canada said Mr. Shearing had a right to change his name to protect his privacy. White sponsored a bill to disallow this in extreme cases like this one. I don't know if it passed.
But I digress. My point is that if we are too weak kneed in Canada to execute the worst among us, then let's, for all our sakes, keep them in jail until they die. I cannot criticize the U.S. for execution, some people need killing. I believe it takes about 15 years from the time a sentence is passed down to the actual execution. The Hollywood cliche of the hero rushing to the prison at the last minute with incontrovertible proof of the convicts' innocence is the invention of an overly melodramatic writer.
I think if it was a Provincial matter, the death penalty would be extant in Canada. Some Provinces are a little more practical in these matters.
Please excuse my use of foul language, but when I think of maniacs like the aforementioned, I tend to use words that fit the person.

Chris,

If you base your knowledge of Falun Gong on Rick Ross'views and the CCP propraganda then you're in big trouble. First of all Rick Ross, who claims to be a religion defender, calls everything a cult and so does the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Falun Gong is none other than a meditation practice. As for the Self-immolation incident, it was proved by the IED to be a hoax and that document is filed at the UN. See http://www.falsefire.com

In case you would like to know more about the Central Propaganda Department in Communist China, who employ people full time to come up with lies to defame Falun Gong, visit http://www.faluninfo.net

Dictators throughout the years have justified their inhumane persecutions of religions and minorities by using hate incitement propaganda, and China is no exception.

The discovery of this concentration camp is undoubtedly from a reliable source. This gives a whole new spin on this genocidal persecution.

It's time for the international community to try and stop it.

This just in,

The 39-year-old former mechanic convicted of abducting, raping and killing 11-year-old Carlie Brucia was sentenced Wednesday to death.

RIP, Carlie.

Right, got it, the US doesn't execute as many people per annum as the Chinese. However, there are 3500 sitting on death row awaiting executions.

I understand perfectly well the purpose is to allow appeal. My question is, if they are so fucking guilty they deserve to die, why would you let them sit around consuming resources in appeal. Why not just get it over with.

My point is, if the US system of justice is so infallable, then there should be no need of recourse for a truly "Guilty" person sentenced to death.

The fact that a man or woman can languish in a state of limbo on death row for 15 years seems to me to be as mean and heinous as the crime that got them there.

Ad hominem, makina.

And all Rick Ross did provide the text of an actual San Jose newspaper article — he didn't write the thing.

What are the founder of Falun Gong, Li Hongzhi's views (published in Chinese, not in English) on racial purity or, for that matter, aliens?

I don't have to conclude that the Chinese Communist Party is a good force (it's not — it is oppressive, devoid of any spiritual good, entirely capable of an evil action like harvesting human organs of murdered prisoners for profit) to see the fact that Falun Gong itself has issues.

It is not just a meditation practice anymore than TM (trancendental meditation) was. It is a religion, makes significant spiritual claims, and the founder believes that mix-raced people, such as myself, my girlfriend, my mother, are sub-humans resulting from some alien plot.

Communist Party: powerful and evil.

Falung Gong: relatively (just relatively) weak and evil.

Both sides have active propaganda arms. Truth? I frankly don't know except that both have troubling views I oppose.

Just like a person should be free to be a laughable deluded pitiable marginally dangerous, but generally pathetic communist... in a free society... so should a person feel free to join a wacky spiritual movement lead by a racist and avowed homophobe.

I criticize the CCP and want this investigated. Falun Gong? Hmmm..... like many religions, they should learn what their founder actually thinks.

Of course, if I trust information sources like this, makina, or the equally one-sided Epoch Times, then that's all the proof I need.

So, to bring this comment to a close, CCP will be relegated to ash heap of history. FG will make its founder popular with his followers and rich for years to come.

My question is, if they are so fucking guilty they deserve to die, why would you let them sit around consuming resources in appeal.

Because if the first jury errored you aren't going to put to death even the convicted without closer scrutiny. Always.

....15 years seems to me to be as mean and heinous as the crime that got them there

15 years is as "mean and heinous" as murder, serial killing, child rape and murder, contract killing, terrorism?

I can't get my mind wrapped around your sense of symmetry.

slightly off topic. i think canada did a good thing by abolishing the death penalty, there have been errors in justice mis-carried in the past. what bothers me the most though is it makes no difference if you take one life or 100. sentences should be consecutive and not concurrent. i believe that would go a long way to making someone think twice. if a person has 10 charges for whatever he should be tried and sentenced accordingly on each charge. the plea bargining crap we put up with is gross violation of the law. its a joke that the police go to all lengths to nail someone with a list as long as your arm to have it bargined away. thank the lawyers for that. only the perpetrator wins. no justice for the victim at all.

William,

Does that mean it is okay with you if the state of Florida fries the perp tomorrow? Right. Like that could happen.

"....15 years seems to me to be as mean and heinous as the crime that got them there"

Fifteen years is a lot of oxygen and tax dollars wasted. In Canada it's even worse: Piggy Picton will get life of 25 years max (all charges served concurrently)...Olson got a hundred grand from the RCMP for his family...Bernardo gets national CBC news coverage anytime he feels like making a noise. In Canuckistan we make pop stars out of our monsters and pan their victims.

We've got a ways to go before we can look Americans in the eye and comment on their criminal system.

The Chinese communist regime is not natural to China. It was imposed on the Chinese people from Russia and a few Chinese people who had power on their minds took up the Russian communists help. So I agree with the fact that the Chinese people are not a cruel nation. But under the last 80 years of communist rule they are a very frightened suppressed people. The communist regime in the last 80 years has killed 80 million of its own people see http://ninecommentaries.com/ for all the grisly details and the best historical account of the rise and imminent fall of the communist regime. With 9 million already resigned from the communist regime the flailing regime is on its last legs which is why so many Chinese people are talking, quitting, defecting and exposing what really goes on in China under a fascist communist so called reformed brutal evil specter.

The Chinese regime is eradicating Falun Gong because they are afraid of us. Falun Gong practitioners are not afraid of the communist regime and are not willing to commit crimes and hurt other people because they tell us to . The teachings of Falun Gong have set our minds and hearts free from living in terror. So there fore the communist regime cannot subvert convert or transform us in any way. Just like the Christians who were thrown to the lions for not giving up their faith once again history repeats itself and massive persecution takes place because despotic leader fear losing power. The fear has become a reality but not because Falun Gong has planned it this way.

What country would not benefit from having 100 million truthful compassionate and tolerant people in their country. Each business would flourish, crime would drop, peace and harmony would be the norm. But instead the regime is so corrupt and so evil and inhumane it could not bear the light of goodness showing them up.

Their persecution has failed, Falun Gong are stronger today than in 1999 when the persecution began. And this persecution is what has caused their downfall.
Falun Gong practitioners do not aspire to politics or want to run any country. But we will use every legal avenue to expose the persecution of Falun Gong in non violent peaceful ways and continue to legally and honestly expose the communist regime exactly for what it is. This is why Falun Gong will exist long after the communist regime falls. Just like Christianity , Buddhism etc. Falun Gong is here to stay.

We do not kill or commit suicide -the self immolation incidents/ suicides in Tiananmen Square in 2001 were a hoax set up by the propaganda dept. of the Communist regime to incite hatred against Falun Gong in China. And it very nearly worked. But now more and more people in China have woken up that Falun Gong is good and they are remembering that their culture was not based on murder deception and persecution. They are waking up, their minds are becoming free again and they people of china want a return to their rich culture and relationship with their Gods, Dao and Buddha’s and all this will happen because of the Truth Compassion and Forbearance of Falun Gong.

Am I the only one who believes that, as a legal matter, and after the passage of the relevant laws, spammers should be shot in the back of the neck - following due process, a trial, and a conviction of course?

Let me say first: I no more agree with the defection of David Emerson as I do with the defection of Belinda Stronach (of course, that means if nothing was wrong with Stronach's departure according to the ethics commissioner, then there's nothing wrong with Emerson's departure).

I would say that a new ethics commissioner should be voted upon with a change in government to insure no tainting upon ethics rulings. If a new ethics commissioner should rule there's something wrong (upon the agreement of all parties in Parliament), I would put much more weight on that than on someone who has been acclaimed to the post by the previous government. Wasn't this sort of thing supposed to be addressed by the 'minister of democratic deficits'?

If the same commissioner was in charge now as was then, shouldn't the same case be subject to the same ruling? Unless the commissioner was beholden to some hidden conditions...

Does the CCP sell drugs via spambots online?

"At Auschwitz the Nazis would render the fat of their victims to make soap."

Absolute myth.

The more I read about Falun Gong, and in particular the Epoch Times (founded by Falun Gong members to support the group's "message"), the more I doubt the groups claims and veracity.

Chinese Communist Party?

Well, communism is an evil philosophy and the blood on its hands is literally unmatched in human history.

Of all countries which have been lead by communists, I believe China has the highest total death sum.

So... it's certainly possible.

But damn, Falun Gong seems to be a messed up cult (and cults lie for public relations as a matter of course).

Kate, please don't take this group's publication at face value without verifying it!

hehe,

Somebodys got WAY too much time on their hands.

Nice to see SDA is shaking them up.

FREEDOM LOVERS RULE, socialists drool.

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