Further to the Desnethe – Missinippi – Churchill River election story, more details are coming in. John Gormley LIve is doing more on this at the moment, if you want to listen on streaming audio. I’ve received information privately, as well – it’s worth noting that both the NDP and Conservative campaigns have recieved complaints.
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For example, the poll in question from the Ahtahkakoop reserve came in 3 hours late, and in addition to around 380 voters who were on the voters list, another 240 people were sworn in.
Update – Conservative candidate Jeremy Harrison appeared later in the day with CKOM host David Kirton. They have collected a number of affadavits and it sounds as though the complaint and request for an investigation is going ahead. Furthermore, the chief of Ahtahkakoop, Larry Ahenikew, has reportedly acknowledged on camera that a television set was raffled during the election – a violation of the Elections Act. Although Ahenikew issued a news release a couple of days ago, attempts by media to contact him since have proven fruitless.
Nothing to see here people, move along!!
Does this seriously suprise anyone??
Close results often result in recounts, regardless of where or when they occur. This should not be a surprise for anyone who plays party politics.
We all have a stake in ensuring that the electoral process has been properly followed.
I’ve sent an email to Jeremy Harrison to wish him luck. My support from Ottawa doesn’t help but the thought for him is there… if you would like to do the same you can email him at jeremyharrison@shaw.ca
Why don’t you conservatives wait for once and see what the results are of an investigation, rather than coming to a conclusion without all the facts. Remember, these are allegations by a guy who lost his seats by a very slim majority.
For people who believe in a tougher justice system, you sure don’t have any idea of the concept “innocent until proven guilty.” He’s a Liberal! He must be guilty!
I will really be surprised when no evidence gets uncovered and a statement is issued by elections canada. There could never be a problem with the way our system is run could there?
It’s not about the count — it’s about the phony voters. For example, people who have been dead for years are on the voters list, and anybody showing up with their (easily obtained) voter card can vote for them. I received a voter card for a tenant at my house who moved out in 2001. I could have easily voted twice. Was listening to AM 640 in Toronto yesterday, dozens up people fessing up to having voted multiple times. What a crock.
Solution is simple: show ID. Any bleeding heart who says that’s an infringement on human rights is full of it. That same infringement is a requirement to receive health services in this country.
peter i agree with you.
liberal = lies.
Maybe these guys don’t have to go abroad.
Sowing freedom abroad
Thomas S. Axworthy, Leslie Campbell and Rick Anderson, National Post
Published: Friday, January 27, 2006
Canadians are often hard on themselves, but the 2006 election was a credit to our democracy. It was largely a policy driven campaign. The new televised debate format allowed our leaders to coherently present their ideas and they performed well and treated each other civilly. Despite being held in the middle of winter, turnout was up 5 points to 65%, still too low, but a welcome change from a decade of decline. Our parties demonstrated that Canadians know something about how to run a democracy.
For that reason, the Centre for the Study of Democracy at Queen’s University has released two papers that advocate the creation of a new foreign policy tool – Democracy Canada. The concept is that our parties should come together to form a new institute, reporting to Parliament instead of the Government: its mission would be to take the best of Canadian political expertise and make it available to emerging democracies or countries requesting governance help. Canada is a multicultural, federal state with a parliamentary democracy: these are attributes that many countries share and there may be something in our tradition that would be of use to citizens around the world.
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/editorialsletters/story.html?id=12fb8342-f781-42ba-9a42-f97123bfa27f
Sounds good, Donna, but we have to fix our democracy first. Nothing worse than a teacher who doesn’t know the subject…
Let’s encourage the Swiss to do it, instead. One should always strive to find the most qualified teachers!
Rick Anderson is as sleezy as he looks – this man is irresponsible and self serving – always at the expense of others. I never liked him – he was the worst mistake Preston ever made -Preston hired him as an adviser!
I note that in order to vote in Quebec provincial elections, the voter has to produce two pieces of photo ID and you have to be able to prove Canadian citizenship to get on the roll.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Jema 54, perhaps you should review a text on libel laws.
The concept of innocent until proven guilty is a criminal law concept. This is not a criminal proceeding (yet). I believe there is an obligation to investigate statistically wildly improbable events during an election, to maintain confidence in the system.
Perhaps, you might want to talk to the scrutineers of the candidates at the Desnethe – Missinipi – Churchill River since they have had ample opportunity to object during the count of the ballets. Any newly sworn in people should be recorded in the poll book.
Scrutineers do not have access to, for example, citizenship proof, dead people voting, people voting with someone else’s voter card, etc.—we just get to check the ballot marking.
There has to be a concerted efort to id every voter who voted as to residency, citizenship, dead or alive, voting more than once and on and on. Our voter registration is so lax–I once saw a dog on a voters list, a child of 7 on a voters list. Our system is a farce and rife with scams. An American journalism student voted in TO with his student id card and a proof of residence–who is checking this out. The more we here, the more we realize that our system is easy for anyone with intention to corrupt the system–and EC seems more interested in protecting themselves than the system.
The First Nation which was the last poll to report, 3 hours late, had a voter turnout of 31% in the 2004 election. They voted almost 80% for their Liberal candidate last election. I guess it is possible that their voter turnout could have improved by 350%, but it seems highly irregular. I wonder how many dead people voted.
This is a ‘no-brainer’! ID should be mandatory at the polls.
I wonder what the probability is of finding 331 dead people on the 2006 elector’s list of Desnethe – Missinipi – Churchill River?
Is there a specific reason why we don’t use the “finger dipped in ink” method that identify those having voted already?
reasons? From the top of my head: cost, allergy reactions to the ink, messy to administer?
With all due respect, you guys (Liberals) are really learning a lot from our Democrats on how to preform voter fraund. Ironically, you are becoming more American than anyone would think.
v man because we don’t care One american went in to vote with a hydro bill and they let him.
No birth certificate etc etc.
Peter D says
“Why don’t you conservatives wait for once and see what the results are of an investigation,”
Tried that with the $2 billion Human Resources Theft,.. er uh, how did you phrase it … Oh Yeah “investigation”
Still waiting Peter.
3 years
E.J. Hosdil: There are good Americans and there are bad Americans just like there are good Canadians and there are bad Canadians. It would not surprise me if the distribution between law-abiding and non law-abiding groups is the same for Americans and Canadians.
When someone arrives at a polling station and wants to vote and he or she is not on the elector’s list, he can still receive a ballot to vote. He needs to register to get a certificate of registration.
However, before he gets the certificate, he or she has to either show satisfactory documentation and that could be any document with a name, address and signature. I am surprised that the hydro bill had a signature (they could have shown the hydro bill together with a valid Drivers licence which would have a signature). Or, the person could take the Oath of Qualification.
The crux of the matter, these things when they happen are duly noted in the poll book. If the scrutineer would have objected it also would have been documented in the pool book.
There-in lies the problem–a drivers licence is not proof of citizenship. You do not have to be a citizen to have a drivers licence or a healthcard–or for that matter a SIN # — all you need currently is proof of residence and one piece of picture id and a signature. That is where the electric bill comes in–or any other official piece of mail addressed to you. Unbelievable, eh–who needs hanging chads when we have these rules?
The American student was testing the system (apparently wants to be an investigative journalist – hope he’s not doing it from a jail cell) and did indeed provide a drivers licence and his hydro bill. He was not however a Canadian citizen. He did vote but spoiled his ballot.
Does the certificate of registration require a signature declaring citizenship?
This sort of nonsense could be stopped if the practice of swearing people in ceased. If you are not on the electoral roll at the start of the election, that’s it. You can’t vote.
I voted in Regina Lumsden, by showing my Alberta (photo)drivers licence, and my car registration currently from Saskatchewan… that’s all. No, I didn’t vote more than once, and I really do live here, but it is far too easy… I never thought I’d want to see the day when a “citizen’s id” with photo becomes the rule of the land… but it’s making more sense to me with all the allegations of vote fraud.
perhaps a photo on the social security card? as a newly renamed “citizen’s card”?
and ennumerators (my spelling?) that walk from door to door.
“Does the certificate of registration require a signature declaring citizenship?”,/b>
yes on the certificate form there is a box for a signature to the effect that you are saying that you are, on the polling day, at least 18 years of age, a Canadian citizen and an ordinary resident at the address given on the certificate.
“This sort of nonsense could be stopped if the practice of swearing people in ceased. If you are not on the electoral roll at the start of the election, that’s it. You can’t vote”
yes but in fast growing communities like Calgary, Edmonton, Red Deer, Fort McMurray, Brooks, etc.., it is not fair for those people who move in after the election has been declared. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of people moving to Alberta every day
All the signature on the COR proves is that you can sign your name–are these certificates verified? I doubt it. Our system is set up for scamming and no one seems to care. EC makes no comments, we never know if they check up on these stories. I for one think we owe that American student a big thank-you–he has proven what so many of us suspected but no one talks about, and worse yet, no one in charge does anything about. We hear things like this but it is forgotten and nothing is corrected.
I take Robert Bedet’s point, but wouldn’t that person vote in the community they had just moved from.
But then again, in a country as large as Canada, I accept that might be difficult, so I suppose there has to be other ways of tightening up the system
I live in the UK so please forgive me if my comments were a bit unfair.
Well, whatever, short of embedding a microprocessor with a GPS transmitter and receiver in each and every Canadian of voting age, … that is probably only possible in totalitarian states like Iran and the like.
To “The Fog is Clearing”,
There is also the problem, that the sending out of voter cards is extremely innaccurate. I have lived in the same apartment for 2 1/2 years, filed my taxes twice from this address…and yet for both of the last 2 elections I never received a voter card. Yet, my wife did. On top of that, we received a voter card addressed to my apartment, but the name on the card was not my own, nor anyone who has lived in the apartment for at least the last 30 months.
For me to vote, I just showed my driver’s license that had my address printed on it. However, I didn’t have to swear that I hadn’t voted elsewhere. Not that swearing will stop those cheating the system. But the very presence of these control weakness suggest that the likelihood of voter fraud in Canada is very high and something has to be done about it.
Methinks M. Bedet doth pro-test too much.
The process at my polling station was a joke. The one worker said my that the regulations required my wife to have X, the other one said it was okay don’t bother.
Usually irregularities (cheating) is not enough to change the result. But in a close call we could end up with the debacles they’ve had in the US. Seems like we have one is Saskatchewan but lucklily the formation of the government will not turn on it.
I’m all for inking fingertips as they did in Iraq with apparent success.
I moved from Edmonton to Mississauga after the election was called and was able to register to vote in the Mississauga-Streetsville riding by showing my Alberta drivers license and a rental agreement for my residence. I could have faked but in my case I was just glad I could vote. A fat lot of good it did, though.
I don’t know why Mississauga became a sea of red. I had assumed I was moving into a hotbed of Liberalism on the street and worried about what my kids were going to be taught in the schools. But I was pleasantly surprised. Everyone, literally everyone I spoke to voted Conservative. People at stores, the guy who cut my hair, co-workers, teachers, my kids swimming instructor, my son’s classmates in grade 9 (not that they voted but they represent a lot of voters in their families). My son’s civics class sounded like the conservative blogs during the election campaign. A lot of people had absolutely no patience for that “Islam has won” guy, but he did win. I am not sure who voted Liberal here but a large majority did.
George is right. Anyone who knowingly commits voter fraud, will sign anything, or swear to anything, as many times as they can get away with. Id cards,passports — whatever it takes, you had better be ready to prove you are a citizen, and prove you live in your riding to vote. I am positive what happened in Edmonton, is also going on in other cities, and Elections Canada seems to not really care. Heck if it means chip implants, where do I line up (but I will have to put the double foil cap on in between elections — to ward off big brother and his mind control).
my mother in law got 2 voting cards. she is in a nursing home. when EC came for an advance poll not to many people in the home knew about it and consequently did’nt get to vote. all kinds of irregularities.
When Victor had Elections CA revise the list, they FORGOT to include 135 nursing home residents. So the mobile poll had to register/swear all of them in so they could vote. At 3-5 minutes each, there are barely enough hours in the day for them all to be able to vote.
Which ministry looks after this? BS’s “Democratic Reform”?
Wait a second…Larry Ahenikew? He wouldn’t happen to be any relation to that fellow that made anti-Semitic remarks and was stripped of his power as a result, would he?
probably , but its difficult to trace fathers on a reserve.
First of all, Cal2, that’s not very funny, original or helpful.
Now, to the isue: democracy is very imperfect on reserves because civil society is weak: there is hardly any middle-class, there are hardly any churches, or self-regulating professions or service clubs to speak of: nothing but a ruling class that dispurses government money. Democracy hardly functions because the people are not truly free, they are like modern day serfs. It is hard to imigine a worse system: it’s similar but even worse than communisism as practised in the Soviet Union. This is a problem that is found elsewhere in the world, but the fact that we have created this misery here unnessecarily is disgraceful.
What should bother us is that this system is being perpetuated: life on reserves is not good, but political correctness, ignorance and corruption keeps it going.
It is a Canadian tragedy and disgrace.
There is good reason to beleive that the election was very flawed: it may have been stolen: it must be investigated.
What is important is to remember that we want to help native people. We respect them. We do not respect or tolerate corruption. We want to help native people get out of poverty and dependance and we know assist in this regard. Unfortunately, many chiefs and policitians and activists and professors and beureacrats (and Liberals) will be opposed to any changes to the miserable status quo.
Good catch Ninja. The link to that reserve leads to cheif Barry Ahenakew, which is same spelling as David Ahenakew. So I’m guessing the spelling here is an error? “a” instead of “i”? Tried Googling Larry and David, but it takes me forever.
Yes, Barry is the old Chief, related to Chief Larry and David. They are all from Ahtahkakoop, so no surprise that they are related, just like many people named Holmes could be related to Sherlock Holmes (had he really existed).
And yes, David is old and probably insane: his lawyer (at trial and for appeal), who is known for representing the same kind of ilk, can be judged accordingly.
Bushman; what do think of this Conservative idea to give First Nations People title to their own land? I confess I don’t know a whole lot about the details, other than the Liberals shouted it down as paternalistic. I’m not sure where or how to start or how far they’d let it go if it doesn’t work.
The giving of title of land to the First Nations is a good idea. In the end, it enforces practises that lead to good, strong government. Once First Nations have title to their land, they can use it as collateral to develop their communities.
In the United States, a number of Indian bands had title to their land. There were instances where Chiefs/Councillors/Elders sold that land and pocketed the proceeds. The Band ended up losing some of their land base.
I guess there are come “cons” that go against the idea.
Hi Cheri, I don’t know if we’ll see provatization in our lifetime: leasehold interests have begun on at least one SK reserve, and that’s a start.
There are many small steps that can and should be taken: privatization is a big step.
Ever gone to a concert, school dance, sporting event etc. What do they when you come in, in many instances. They stamp your hand so if you leave you can get back in without paying again. So why not a stamp with I HAVE VOTED TODAY put on your hand when they hand you the ballot. I don’t hear complaints from kids or adults attending events, so why should they camplain about getting stamped at the polls. Also, any utility bill should be dated the month prior to the election. People move so really could have utility bills from several addresses. As a start, anyone elected by less than 1000 votes, are the lists to start with, checking for addresses and names (aka Edmonton) Also, when a person dies,there are forms to send in to remove this person from OAS,CPP, Child Tax Credit etc, but there is no form to remove a SIN, or from the voters list. A lot of people die between April 30 and an election date, or even after a voters card has been received. Persons hired by EC to work as poll clerks, DRO’s, etc are usually picked by the party in power at the discretion of the local org. One or two days training is not enough. They all assume that the powers that be have done their job, and voters lists are correct. No questions asked. It will take a lot of work to get all the lists up to date, but if you have to have a photo ID to get into Costco, why not for voting.
maryT; THAT is BRILLIANT! I’m sure libertarians will have a problem with it, but it doesn’t involve fingerprinting. I see now that this same riding has in some cases 123% voter turn out and some polls still to be counted: (http://www.civitatensis.ca/archives/2006/01/28/1034)
MaryT, almost perfect, I have been saying the same thing.
There is the tricky issue of the advance voters though plus the mail in ones. The other problem that I have is that on the reservations candidates cannot have scrutineers representing them.
Where I am the reservations make up a significant portion of the polls. Many of these people live off the reserve and reside in one of our many towns for school, medical, temp. work, etc. On election day I personally witnessed hundreds of these folks registering to vote because they could not get home to their reserves. I think it’s great that they vote but due to the “almost 100% turn out” at many of these reserves I also question whether someone is voting for them there too. Getting this information is proving to be a major task.