Wuhan Flu

COVID-19 has cracked open the vulnerabilities in Canada’s beef supply chains, exposing some disturbing realities about the challenges faced by this workforce so important to the success of Canada’s beef sector.

Related.

Yet currently, deaths in the US are dropping: Scott Gottlieb MD: New projections from CDC in documents obtained by New York Times shows steady rise in number of cases and deaths from #covid19 over next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1st and about 200,000 new cases each day by end of the month. (pdf)

Update: The study above “obtained by the New York Times”? The researcher who developed a model predicting a steep surge in the country’s coronavirus cases and deaths has said that he was not aware that his work, which “was not in any way intended to be a forecast,” had been drafted into a government report. OH.


Click to enlarge.

Meanwhile, in a Texas seniors home: Armstrong doesn’t call the Hydroxychloroquine a cure and is aware of all the recent reports that say the drug shouldn’t be used to treat COVID-19. But he points out only one of the nursing homes COVID-19 patients has died

Thread is open for related links.

65 Replies to “Wuhan Flu”

  1. Deaths are dropping in the US even as they are double counting cov2 death in Virginia and NY is listing just about every death as cov2. Just who do you believe. I know I believe nothing except the real thing. I said I was finished commenting but hey the insanity is still with me, I think it has pushed me over the edge.

    1. And EXACTLY as advertised … with more testing … the cases of CHICOM-19 are exploding … yet at the same time, not only are CHICOM-19 deaths falling … but so are hospitalizations. So which statistic do you think Gavin Newsom’s “science” and “data” “experts” are citing as reason to KEEP THE (conservative, Orange County) BEACHES CLOSED!

      Gavin Newsom is a Nazi Fascist. Strong words? Not. Strong. Enough.

      1. You do all understand that “this disease is dangerous and requires mitigation” and that “certain legislators are stupid and evil” can exist in the same brain space? That conflicting data or forecasting models can simply be the result of gaining new knowledge and revisions of preliminary data — and not a sinister plot on the part of thousands of doctors and epidemiologists all working for TEH NEW WORLD ORDER?

        If your reasoning abilities are truly this binary, then you really have no business wandering through life without a personal assistant. Or commenting on these pages, for that matter.

        1. Kate, I understand that it is nowhere near as dangerous as advertised and it is easy to see. The same efforts could apply to the seasonal flu with similar results yet it never has been.

        2. Ouch! Kate … and here I thought you and I were “buds” … I come here every day for your wit, wisdom, and curation of news. No my dear, the old brain is still fully functional and can multitask concepts with great multiplicity. I am not mocking Doctors … esp. those in the trenches actually treating CHICOM-19 patients. Those who have radically altered our misunderstanding about this a purely respiratory disease. Those doctors and researchers are HEROIC! But I AM mocking bureaucrat Doctors at the CDC who sit in cubicles and construct CRAPOLA computer models of what “might” happen with the worst possible pandemic ever.

          Yes, our knowledge and data and understanding of CHICOM-19 is evolving, and yes, Gavin Newsom is a hardcore leftist ideologue. All in the same sentence. No personal minder necessary.

          But let me understand? You honestly believe that Gavin Newsom’s closure of ONLY Orange Co. beaches wasn’t purely political? I am complaining that Gavin is USING “data” and “science” as his rationale. That irritates the hell out of me as he is cherry picking what “data” and what “pictures” of improper social distancing in order to exercise his “authority” over the residents of Orange Co.

          As I’ve mentioned before, my daughter lives in a beach-town in Orange Co … she WALKS to the beach with my beautiful 3mo. old grandson. Yes … the same beach Gavin has just SHUT DOWN. If I thought for one second that my daughter was endangering herself or her beautiful little boy … I would drive to LA and barricade her. But, quite the contrary … by getting sun, she is doing one of the BEST things possible to fight the CHICOM … and that is getting vitamin D3 from the sun (see … I’ve learned some evolving knowledge about the virus). Gavin Newman is a fascist ideologue … and yes, the CHICOM is dangerous. The wife and I, both in our early 60’s have been the BEST possible “quarantiners”. Why? Because we take this virus deadly seriously and understand we are on the cusp of high risk with the disease.

          But I have also not gone into some apoplectic insanity with regard to “safety”. I have been grocery shopping every TWO weeks, making trips to the Home Depot as I am rebuilding a section of fencing … and just this morning, I made a semi-monthly trip to Costco, where in the meat Dept. there was an employee holding a sign and shouting “6ft. separation! Obey the social distancing”. Yes, at least 50 people were pawing through the meat cases violating the 6ft. rule. Should Gavin Newsom SHUT DOWN the San Ramon Costco? Yes! According to his “data” and “science”. It’s GAVIN! Not me who is making a mockery out of “data” and “science” … same as with his draconian embrace of global warming “data” and “science”.

          The same “data” and “science” he cited would slaughter 200,000 Californians and had already created the need for 50,000 new hospital beds! Now! Urgently! in CA. Hurry! Orange Man Bad needs to pay CA for 50,000 new hospital beds!! Hint: the Hospital ship moored at Long Beach never saw more than 20-30 patients. Nothing drives me crazier than JUNK “data” and “science” worshipped as the new god … replacing religious faith … with faith in manufactured and manipulated scientific “truth”.

          Can we be friends again?

          1. yes Kenji, and the biblical stories are as much bullshit as the model and data you don’t like. Use logic, instead of emotions to do your thinking! My usual routines have hardly changes since this over blown bullshit has started, as I need to catch it first, and out here in the sticks, the probability of doing so in much reduces. This flue is only deadly to those who git it. Not to those who avoid it. Math good sir, math, think in logical terms. I am over 70 have had cancer, had heart problems just a year ago, and a stroke 6 months ago, and I still do damn near every thing I did before. Even when I had cancer, the people at the hospital were I got treated couldn’t figure out why I was happy and clowned around a lot, think positive and logically. Gavin newnuts doesn’t do either

          2. Phew! Thank goodness! I admire you so much, Kate that I would honestly be crushed if you thought me a numbskull. Although I do tend to like most of what OWG goes on about. And I may have a thin skin, and hahahahaha ha … think EVERYTHING is about me … but I am willing to get called out when I stray from logic and reason.

            Like my favorite NME … who thinks that because I am a faithful Christian, that I ignore science and data. Silly, silly, NME. I just ignore JUNK science … which for me has become virtually EVERYTHING that spews out of a “model”. Virtually every mathematical model has become about as accurate as all the polls which predicted a landslide win for HER. Models!! What a contemporary crock of shit.

            And remember NME! As Tucker Carlson reminded us tonight … Your PM said that Jesus wants you to STAY home! On Easter. *snicker* I can only assume you were outside on a bike ride or something … just to poke Jesus in the eye … if not your PM. Wow! What a two-fer! for you. But I am truly impressed with your toughness and resilience … and attitude. Rest assured I’m more of the “God helps them who help themselves” kind of Christian. I don’t wait for my Savior to deliver an angel to rebuild my fence. My only sibling/brother died of cancer at age 28 … gone after a short 5-month battle to a rare and aggressive cancer. I admire anyone who can survive that ordeal. Perhaps God was with you … I wish he were with my brother. I prayed as hard as I could … but to no avail. My brother deserved to be saved … because he was a GOOD person. A generous and helpful friend to all. My faith took a blow, but remained intact.

          3. I dunno, Kenji, some models are better than others. For example, personally I prefer swimming suit models to fashion models.
            Seriously, the problem with those who work with models come to view them as reality and not construct. Models by definition use only a limited set of parameters because reality is too complicated. How close models come to real life depends on how important the particular set of parameters picked are, as well as those omitted. Very few models work as well as Reynolds number or Quantum Electrodynamics. All anthropogenic global warming models have been proven to be garbage.
            I remember at work once, when the analysts told a project manager he is not doing well against the model. He flung down graphs in their faces and told them this is the real life data. It isn’t nice and clean and regular, but full of spikes and noise. He said that’s what he was trying to work against, not your nice clean models.
            As to NME666, he labors under the illusion that science and religion are dichotomous. He is not irreligious, he is anti-religious.

        3. “That conflicting data or forecasting models can simply be the result of gaining new knowledge and revisions of preliminary data — and not a sinister plot on the part of thousands of doctors and epidemiologists all working for TEH NEW WORLD ORDER?”

          Fantastic. I’ll remember that the next time I engage a climate skeptic. I’ll simply say…”Hey, scientists are gaining new knowledge from their climate forecasting models so don’t sweat the umpteen hundred revisions.
          Besides, 97% of scientists say climate change is real…so quit being a nutjob!!”.

          No one is saying the virus is a plot to rule the world. You want to lock me down and stop me from visiting my grandchildren, municipal parks, golf, boating and other activities because the virus is so damn “deadly”? Fine…I’m in. All for one one for all. But don’t tell me Canadians have to wait in Soviet style bread lines for groceries while Vancouver, Pearson, Ohare and JFK airports are conducting business as usual with respect to international flights… and all this while the gov’t lectures the plebs how we all have to do our part, because I’ll be frank with you, it’s starting to wear a little thin. And avoid sermonizing me on how deadly this disease is given that my sister in law’s mother died from it. How? Coming into contact with someone from Portugal. Nice huh?
          Want to convince me? Do better with the numbers and start walking the talk with respect to “mitigation”.

          You don’t want me over here Kate? Fine, I’m good with that as well.

          1. No Pearson is not business as usual, as they fly over head here, and the sky has been silent lately. But I’m sure turD’Oh is letting in those he should stop.

          2. NNME666. Yes, Pearson is business as usual from what I’ve seen. I have flight tracker and I look at it religiously.
            Vancouver has Int’l flights every day and from China as well in case people here are wondering…the same goes for NY and Chicago.
            It’s one big heaping pile of B.S.
            But hey, maybe those passengers aboard those flights walk to Vancouver instead of taking public transit…it’s possible I guess.
            And I’m sure they’ve been told/advised not to take domestic flights to reach their final destinations, so I think we’re all good here.
            Yayyyyyyyyyy!!!!! We’re winning!!!!
            *sarc off*

      2. *
        just picked up my son from ontario hospital after surgery.

        diagnosed at one hospital… had to drive him to another for
        actual procedure. ambulances being saved for plague victims.

        guy with badly broken arm was splinted and told to
        drive himself as well.

        arrived at second hospital… two ambulance crews sunning
        themselves in parking lot. greeted in lobby by four nurses in
        full biohazard costumes… seems they have no other really
        pressing duties.

        at one point in his stay, son was told nurses were being sent
        home because not enough work to go around. worked out for
        my boy… absolutely no beef about quality of care.

        this kungflu deal has been overblown from the start.

        follow the money.

        *

        1. Geez, maybe the nurses were exhausted from their tik tok dance videos so were sent home early.
          You know…we all deal with stress differently, so don’t judge them, ok?

        2. Burton … hahaha ha ha … tiktok dance videos. I must say that I get really weary of all the UNIONISTA activist Nurses capitalizing on this outbreak to shill for more $$ more, more, more … and I’m sorry … I will thank MY OWN Nurse if she treats me well (like the Nurses who helped me after my hip replacement) … but I’m NOT going to make YouTube videos “thanking Nurses EVERYWHERE for their service”. Should I thank CalTrans engineers for their service because I drove on a CA highway today? I’m sorry. Nurses are doing their JOB! nothing more. As Clint Eastwood told Chief Ten Bears … “I ain’t asking for nothing extra”. Nurses are paid extremely well here in N.CA. Stop bitching. Stop making videos of yourselves wearing trash bag PPE … esp. when we can see your REAL PPE underneath your trash bags. Sheesh … I hope that crew are thinking through their nursing work better than their whiny video work.

    2. Owg, since you missed? my previous attempts…

      Wrt “fear is our enemy & the enemy is winning”

      My updated, second attempt…

      You are not wrong in so much that fear can be a problem, but there is more going on, more to consider.

      Further, you are wrong wrt those you accuse of being full of fear, or of fear mongering. Trudeau & his type peddle in fear, you wrongly label anyone here not in lockstep, of being afraid &/or being a fear monger.

      If we don’t understand the nature and metrics of the threat confronting us, we can not expect to overcome it.

      A constant concern over the past 3 months pertains to vast numbers of voters who seem to misunderstand at least part of what is happening.

      The wuhan flu is a new hazard and we have lots of gaps & misinformation in our collective understanding.
      It’s a new & massive front in the culture war that imo, we are losing.

      The goal immediately in front of us, should be the safest & quickest exit from lockdowns, whilst trying not to blunder into the jaws of the next stage, battle, front, whatever.

      Quick by itself is not a great plan.
      To play on your words a bit… we need to fear more than just fear.

      We need to understand how the disease spreads, how it infects, why it is a mortal threat to some but minor to others.

      The fear of the chi-com-covid represents a weapon to some & they are using it effectively. But saying “buck it up butter cup” to everyone not already in lockstep with you is not an effective defense.

      The PERCEPTION of the threat, in the minds eye of the urbanite voter – who typically defers more to experts (both real & questionable), follows the MSM for news etc etc, is very important to us. They elected Trudeau. They elected Notley. They elected Wynne.

      The Wuhan flu is the latest, greatest invasion of gators into the culture war swamp.

      Your assumption that Wuhan flu is no big deal & your constant refrain to stop being afraid, just carry on etc completely & utterly misses the mark.

      The message is condescending & will not sway nearly enough urbanite voters. As bad as some may think Kenney or Ford is, can you imagine Notley or Wynne in charge right now?

      My apologies to Kate for veering off topic. And my thanks, for persevering & staying on this massive threat.

  2. I do have one question that I have not seen answered yet.

    How and where are these livestock processing workers being infected?
    Are They becoming infected on the processing lines, and in the plant itself?
    Or
    Are they being infected in the lunchrooms, restrooms, and locker rooms?
    Or
    Are they being infected in their outside the job lives and activities?

    The article mentioned carpooling, imagine breathing the same air with 3 or 4 other people every morning and evening. I know several probably illegal workers that are living in houses eight to twelve to a two bedroom house here in MN. I bet that would help spread something like Chinese Coronavirus to everyone in the house, and their friends too.

    I wonder what the Contact Tracing would show? Is it infecting everyone on line A, or in Department B? Or is it Person X, and his roommates, carpool buddies, and his girlfriend?

    Until these questions get answered, we are not likely to stop the spread of the virus. Not in any processing plant, or the surrounding community. If we get it right, we can stop the spread in the future at dozens of other plants and communities too. And we can apply the same lessons to the fruit and vegetable processing plants too. What happens if they shut down a canning plant in the middle of their harvest seasons?

    1. rd, it is impossible to stop the spread of that type of virus, much like it is impossible to stop the spread of the common cold.

      1. *
        “impossible to stop the spread of the common cold.”

        they crashed the worldwide economy for no reason. i’m guessing
        more people will suffer and/or die from this headlong plunge
        into hysteria than the actual kungflu.

        but justin et al got their moment in the sun.

        *

    2. The answer is in the 2nd sentence of the article. “These plants employee thousands of newcomers to Canada” .

      1. Indeed. Much like a lot of Canadian farms, it seems the beef processing plants have become addicted to cheap foreign labour. TFWs flown in by the planeload to fill the jobs that “Canadians won’t do.” I.e. “That Canadians won’t do at the wage we’re willing to pay.”

        I’m not ignorant about the reality of food processing though – as long as you permit lower-cost jurisdictions to export their foodstuffs here, consumers will vote with their wallets and buy the cheaper stuff, forcing the local producers to slash costs or go out of business. It’s a mirror of how we’ve ended up with so much cheaply made garbage from China; the west simply can’t match Chinese labour & environmental costs (aka hundreds of millions of peasants and who cares about pollution).

        Not sure what the long term answer is, to be honest. It seems like either import tariffs or watch domestic producers continue to try racing to the bottom.

        1. Some of this is directly downstream from the growth of regulations that forced small local abattoirs out of the pipeline decades ago.

          Small facilities employed small numbers of local workers, distributing the demand for employees evenly across the regions. With increasingly stringent and costly regulation, many just closed up and meat production plants became highly centralized with huge demands for workers that the local population had no hope of supplying. And so we are where we are.

          1. Exactly. Not only do we see this in meat processing but almost every other business. Large businesses love regulations because they become a barrier to market entry for small business. If you are making 10 million dollars a year in profit, it’s easy to hire a team of lawyers and accountants to guide you through the morass of loopholes and regulations. (many of which I’m sure were brought into being by lobbyists) IF however, you are a small mom and pop abattoir or starting one up with 5 employees it becomes very hard to navigate all these regulations that mostly don’t accomplish anything.

            If anything comes from this I truly hope we see a decentralization of these big industries and go back to supporting small local business as much as possible.

            And we quit supporting China. And Alberta separates.

          2. Indeed, as Kate says,crushed by regulatory zeal and endless self reporting requirements,small operators found better ways to spend their days.
            For this is Canada where if it is not PERMITTED, any activity shall be forbidden.
            Strangely even though traditional small butchering operations never poisoned anyone,the “experts” insisted they must meet the “Government Gold Standard”.
            If it saves just one life..And creates another whole bureau of overseers..

          3. well Kate, your point also argues against open border policies, as , if the conglomerates couldn’t hire cheap imports they would push the government to drop a lot of regulations. They could then save in other areas to make up they for $$$$ they save on cheap labour. So, open borders are a financial disaster, a health problem, and they destroy existing social fabrics

    3. Until the “experts” say it is so, it isn’t so.
      Mind you the “experts” are the last to know.
      What if they stick their head out and are wrong?
      That’s the shut up line.
      Remember the video of the 2 doctors in California? Could be they had some numbers wrong or not, though their talk on isolation was appropriate.
      Sez non expert.

    4. Agreed. We desperately need granular data … not these big dull meaningless numbers. We need contact tracing … names … and places. However, we will never get the ethnic data for the spread of the CHICOM-19 … until … it is so widespread into our communities as to cut across all ethnic persuasions. The early ethnocentric spread of the virus was the TIME to provide that essential data … but … but … but … “racism”. Certain TRUTHS can never be spoken.

    1. LindaL, it says what I have been saying and the dummies here and in America have decided that being chattel is an acceptable lifestyle. No one is mad enough, no one is courageous enough, no one will do anything. Reading responses to my posts shows me that most people lack critical analysis skills and think that if it sounds scientific then it must be . They think that computer projections are really dead people, it is nuts.

      1. OWG, we are travelling a similar road, but as you see, we all differ on the fine points, but thats what makes things interesting.

        So, where to start? Oh yes, this has been a cluterfk of cowardly government decisions, that have snowballed. And now, especially in BC, where the provincial government has ceded all decision making to a shrew of a doctor with a speech enunciating fetish, they are stuck to their previous decisions. So where are the mistakes?
        Not locking down all seniors care homes early on.
        Emptying the hospitals and cancelling all surgeries. The great rush on ERs never happened. Yet, still the hospitals are largely empty. How many will die of cancer, heart disease, etc, due to this hamfisted decision?
        Closing public parks and outdoor sites. The best disinfectant is sunlight and fresh air, where dissipation is quick and easy. Yet, they want large groups in people in enclosed spaces like grocery stores.
        The PROMISE of vaccines in 18 months. Just more nonsense. There is no guarantee, period. Many coronaviruses, the common cold and its strains, do not have vaccines. Neither does AIDS. anyone in the press ever ask Dr Enunciator what happens when there is no vaccine?
        The destroyed financial lives of the young will live on for years. All they are learning is to rely on government handouts. Just like the Indians, we all know how well thats worked out for them.
        And last but not least, the acquiescense of the Canadian public to roll over and play dead. I’m tired of that awful Sam Roberts song. I’m tired of the garbage stories on the infotainment hours. I’m tired of the media fawning over PM Stupid and his insipid speech impediment.

        I’m tired of being lied to, and having this endless propaganda spewed, watching Canadians swallow this garbage.

        Can’t wait until it blows up in Bonnie Henry’s face, and in Tam the Man’s face, what a wretched puppet of China. Unfortunately, that means many more lost lives, due to an ideological war against the virus, one that has ignored inconvenient science, like the efficacy of HCQ.

  3. I am most interested in total deaths to avoid the endless arguments about with Corona virus or from it. This article has a plot of total deaths for New York City, by month going back to 2000.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/10/upshot/coronavirus-deaths-new-york-city.html

    The worst month for deaths was Sept 2001, showing the effects of the 9/11 attacks.

    The typical winter peaks range from approx. 4800 to 5500 deaths per month, with Jan 2000 being the worst at approx. 6200.

    Now to 2020. March total deaths (including 4 days of April) were 9780.

    I went to the NYC COVID web page and added up their COVID only deaths for April 2020. The total is 11176 deaths .

    Now some say NYC is over counting COVID deaths. Well let’s assume the 11176 figure is total deaths from all causes. 11176 is much higher than the previous worst month of 6200 deaths. Clearly something abnormal is happening in New York City.

    1. Thanks Joe, I agree.

      Focusing on current & historic death totals should help cut thru some of the noise.

    2. Of course something abnormal is happening.

      Set aside the fact that ER doctors and trailers filled with dead bodies in NYC are clearly saying so — the total deaths vs historic averages for this time period have spiked in all of the regions heavily affected by COVID. Excess death data is something even the most obtuse should be capable of processing without the help of experts or explanation. Yet, some cling to the “fraudulent death certificats” and “but the models” narrative as tenaciously as do the “Trump colluded with Russia” moonbats on the left.

      Yes, people. That’s who you have become.

      1. Yep Kate, there is something unusual going on in NYC, and that unusual is the health care system is over loaded, and hobbled . They are focusing on the wrong things, throw in they are hobbling them selves with “cautious” measures, and you get many people not being cared for as they normally would, like heart patients, ordinary flue patients, and any and all other illnesses, and also COVID 19 patients. They are just doing things wrong, period, and that is what is unusual.

  4. It’ll be interesting to see how Sanctuary Cities conduct flu tracing. Apps to track citizens but not illegal immigrants?

  5. Well, here’s a very well presented explanation and description of the man-made virus.

    Not hoopla, but science. Sit down, pour a drink and listen carefully. From Peak
    Prosperity. Dr Mortenson has been a well of good information regarding the virus. It looks like the connected science community is dirty, dirty, dirty, hello FAUCI.

    Bombshell! Covid-19 Virus Lab-Made? Fauci Connected?

    https://youtu.be/R6y8dlhoMpo

  6. DanBC thanks for this.

    Martenson is good. Not enough people are taking the time to follow his vlog imo. I first ran into his work back in the 08 financial crisis.

    Has expertise in two of the intersecting forces beating on us right now.

    1. The open war on HCQ should concern everyone.

      It’s a valid treatment. It has 70 years of use to confirm the concerns and benefits.

      There is no money to be made by Big Pharma. This is why Big Pharma is at war with HCQ instead pushing Rendesivir, a very expensive and unproven treatment.

      The media is also at war with HCQ. Massive death is fun for the media, they encourage it.

      The silence of our own governments on HCQ is more than concerning. The Ponce wants to lock down this country “until a vaccine is found”. 40 years and waiting for an HIV vaccine, longer than that for several common colds strains. The flu vaccines themselves are only 80% effective at best.

      It’s clear, we’re being lied to, still, by the MSM, and by our governments and health authorities. Power and control, power and control, by the hand wringers, Tam the man, Bonnie Henry, stand up. Our governments have ceded control to worry warts and pseudo-intellectuals, alleged expert doctors that never set foot out of their gilded offices and lecterns. I suppose than, said governments have their scapegoats when things really go off the rails, don’t they?

      1. so Dan, yer sayin climate change is a hoax? And that it is also about $$$$ . We are finding out the experts are lying to us just to scare us , all for $$$$$$.

  7. You just gotta love it: the Worldometer not only pulls figures like “total US cases = 1,215,457” out of their .. ah, souls but they do it with precision to the 7th significant figure. And what happened to the million “cases” that didn’t die or “recover” (whatever that means)? Calling Schrodinger.

    1. Those are still active cases. There are people in hospital for weeks with this thing. One doctor in Wuhan was hospitalized for three months.

  8. A question for Dr. Craig Spencer MPH, on his way out of the ER:
    “Is the number of ‘Covid-19’ cases in your ER significantly different from the usual number of seasonal cold/flu cases?”; and, supplementary, “How many of the ‘Covid-19 cases’ were there only because of the hype – ie. they would have stayed home and sweated it out in other years?”

  9. Covid death numbers make no sense. Are we to believe NYC has a covid death rate 200 times higher than let’s say Tokyo, Dubai, Mexico City et al., cities that are veritable sardine cans with respect to population density??? Data taken from John Hopkins btw. Now the CDC are projecting 3000 daily deaths by June???!!!??? HUH???!!!??? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
    Two possibilities – They’re either padding the numbers in NY or the others are suppressing theirs. Take your pick. I’m not saying the virus isn’t real, but at least give us data we can believe.

    1. Actually there may be more factors at play. For example:

      a) number of people using masks in public places and on transit.

      b) number of elevators and subway riders. I suspect this is higher in New York than in many (but not all) other cities.

      c). General health of the population. Do New Yorker’s have more existing health conditions such as diabetes, high blood pressure etc.

      d) Are there more long term care facilities in NYC than other cities? I suspect there might be. As we have seen, LTC facilities can be fertile breeding grounds for the virus.

      I suspect there may be more.

      In the real world complex problems often have many inter-related causes. Similarly, the solution may be a variety of steps. Each one by itself, only of limited effectiveness.

      1. 200 times more worth of differences???? Uh uh. I’m a numbers guy…I’d be more than happy to toss NYC into an outlier pile but the spread is just too high to ignore.
        I can hear my boss already…”Burton, what’s going on in NY?”

  10. Re the death count – above or below historical rates. In certain countries and states, the death rate did indeed spike – despite lockdowns, while other areas also under lockdown did not experience spikes at all.

    So I question whether using death spikes as an indicator is a valid way to determine the mortality of Covid 19.

    Also if you look at the 24 countries in the Euromomo charts, you will see that 15 of 24 did not experience much higher than normal death rates.

    Of those that did – all except England have death rates that are now near or below baseline, following what appears to be a flu season type spike and drop.

    https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

    What I find unforgivable is that at this point that we have had no large scale zelenko protocol studies. There certainly is no shortage of patients or resources. We would have an answer in about 3 weeks. Why have there been none? We keep seeing “anecdotal” evidence that it works.

    1. There is no dismissing the fact that there have been a lot of deaths in March, April, and into May. And there is no disputing that when counting excess deaths, we are seeing a spike. But what remains to be resolved is the long term effect.

      At the euromomo site I found that one countries spike has peaked and now is dipping below the line, substantially. If you look at the Netherlands’s z score you can see that perhaps what is going to follow the spike will be a correction where the folks who died suddenly during this pandemic are not now dying across a longer period. What is even more interesting, is that looking at the past, there does not seem to be a sharp correction downward after any of the flu seasonal deaths.

      All I know is that we are going to have to monitor this ourselves because sure as sh*t the media and experts are not going to be telling us.

  11. Owg, I have 3 comments inspired by, & directed to you on the whuhan transmission thread. 1st is snarky, 2nd an apology, 3rd I spent way too much time on, sincerely hope you’ll read it and ponder on it.
    We all need to up our game here.

  12. In my opinion much of the COVID problem is public health officials, politicians, and maim street media being less than honest with the public. For example:

    1. Justin Trudeau’s mandate letters to his three health ministers so far—Philpott, Petitpas-Taylor and Hajdu—are public. None mentioned preparation for an infectious disease outbreak. Oops.

    2. Maim street media: for example CNN’s Anderson Cooper on Mar 4, “the flu right now is far deadlier. So if you’re freaked out at all about the coronavirus you should be more concerned about the flu”. Oops

    3. Andrew Cuomo. Mar 2 “We think we have the best health care system on the planet right here in New York, so when you’re saying what happened in other countries versus what happens here, we don’t even think it’s going to be as bad as it was in other countries.” Oops.

    4. Dr Thresa Tam Appearing before the Health Committee on January 29, Tam strongly dismissed the notion even of having all travellers from COVID-19 hot zones self-isolate for 14 days. Now we are told to self isolate.

    5. Take a look at WHO’s recommendations for the use of NPIs (non-pharmacutical interventions) during pandemics. How many are your health authorities following? How many did they say are useless?

    See Table 1 in this report: https://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/329438/9789241516839-eng.pdf
    For a pandemic of high severity (surely this is one) they recommend facemasks for public. Yet how many public health officials like Dr. Tam dismissed the use of masks?

    Also in the table note that the WHO says quarantine of exposed individual is not recommended in any circumstances. Yet we are now quarantining exposed individuals.

    As a result of these and many other instances, people are losing faith in public health authorities, politicians, and the media.

    Its time for politicians and public health authorities to say: “There are many things we don’t know about this virus. Until we do, we need you to take these precautions. As we get more data, we’ll share it, and then adjust our precautions accordingly.” They should have done this on day one.

  13. What I am lacking here,is terms of reference.
    Where on this planet has this virus gone full exponential spread?
    What crowded,failed state is living the dream?
    And where has full tight lockdown been applied?
    South Korea?
    Japan?
    This would give me some idea of what is real.
    Because the contradictory horse crud from our fearless leaders has been quite dismaying.
    Models say hundreds of thousands might die..
    We must lock down,to flatten the curve..
    Save the healthcare system from collapse..
    Now ,stay imprisoned till vaccine is created..
    Yet the numbers are so fluid as to be nonsense.
    Deaths/Infected persons so far is glibberish.
    The holes in the testing for infection are classic bureaucratic speak.
    I trust the denominator as much as I trust the Canadian Crime rate,which is handicapped by the Police refusing to investigate or even take reports of theft,property damage and madness..
    But see,crime is going down in Canada..
    Number of infected,when”We will only test those with these symptoms” followed by 20% asymptomatic….
    And last weeks little treat,numbers dead from Wuhan Flu, less than Normal Flu..Immediate response”Flu numbers no good,they are an estimate” from the same dishonest employees who have been using those same numbers to extort us for years..
    Trust is the real issue.
    I have learnt,Kleptocrats cannot be trusted.
    Actions speak,for their words are worth nothing.
    And the Wuhan Flu actions,essentially amount to kill the economy to prolong the sickness…
    For our own good of course..

    Cancel all elective surgery..Make room for the doomed..Hospitals mostly empty..

  14. And yet they keep phoning for different members of my family to work at health care facilities inspite of one being treated for cancer and another retired because ? Oh the bulk of the staff has or is showing signs of covid. I am sure it’s nothing.

  15. Back in February I repeatedly said this was nothing but a bad flu. I was universally mocked for it. And here we are a few months later with empty hospital beds and still immensely fewer deaths than the Hong Kong flu in the 60’s which few who were around at that time still even remember. I stand vindicated.

  16. Was just over at Jo Nova’s Site.
    two really interesting posts.
    Blood oxygen sensors,apparently asymptomatic people have been found with deathly low blood oxygen levels and zero other symptoms..
    Then blood clots,major and micro.In all age groups.Not a pretty picture.
    Did covid #1 have any of these symptoms/side effects?
    Using google fu I found an African Country with claimed exponential growth of Covid 19 infection..But timing seems off as the death rate/infected was 0.05,given as >500/10 000..and after getting sidetracked at WUWT and JoNova..I forgot the countries name.

    1. Oopes, my bad..
      Not a country whole of Africa and numbers from our trusty friends at W.H.O..
      Never mind.
      Has anyone an example of a region where Covid 19 has spread exponentially?

      1. Sorry I missed it.
        or read without comprehension.
        completely missed the people suffering very low oxygen levels while showing no flu like symptoms..If I read it right .

  17. The fascists and their workers are the majority. That’s the only statistic anyone needs to know.
    Last one out, turn off the lights.

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