How much bigger should the discrepancy in salaries & benefits get between private sector taxpayers and public employees?
Teachers are “falling ill in record numbers. This troubling, pernicious illness tends to strike hardest on Fridays and Mondays, particularly when the sun is shining.”
BC Teacher’s massage demand alone could potentially cost $120 million a year.
Will taxpayers stand up to financial shock of these lavish wages & benefits?
In Ontario we’ve proven rather obviously that we will not only take the financial shock we’ll roll over, stick our asses in the air and beg to take it without lube.
The ON election results were a repudiation of fiscal conservatism. No one really cares anymore about articles like this except us, so why bother?
Those that believe in living within our means, personal responsibility and accountability are in a huge minority in this province with 69% voting for Liberals or the NDP.
A few more days until I reach the 5th stage of grief – acceptance. After that it’s time to “enjoy the decline”.
“Will taxpayers stand up to financial shock of these lavish wages & benefits?”
Oh, absolutely! Not only will the private sector stand up to the shock, the Ontario election has shown us that the a good chunk of them can be relied upon to vote for their own demise.
Let it burn.
I can think of one solution …. make the first day off with any illness, an unpaid day. Not physical and injury that can be identified as such, but just the phone in type of “I don’t feel good”. After that, you get compensated from the second day on, but after the third day, you need a note from your doctor describing the illness …. gotta protect the kids don’t we. Sickly teachers should be monitored so they don’t infect others.
Think that could work? Think the teachers would go for it?
Whenever public sector workers scream that they’re not making enough money, I immediately suggest that they should each demand $10 Million per year. To this I get a confounded look. I then explain, “Who is to say that what they’re making now is not enough or actually too much?” Since there’s such a large public debt, how about ALL public sector employees take a 25% cut in pay for sufficient years until the debt disappears. Then we can talk about pay increases.
The BCTF is playing the age-old game of “we’re only the Nth best paid group in our profession in the country”. The moment after their wages are increased to #1, then their fellow teachers in other parts of the country start screaming the same thing. It’s a never ending ferris wheel where there’s never “enough”.
Let me see if I have this right. 20 sick days per year entitlement to the civil “servant” is twice the vacation days the taxpayer, who funds them, receives, with zero sick days unless they have short term disability coverage. Hint: the lowest paying jobs have the least incidence of benefits. To the argument they don’t pay tax – a client of mine make a grand total of $20,000, and after paying her business expenses, somehow holding onto her condo (has to rent it, the HST crushed her business), still gets a $2000 tax bill.
Spare me, I’ve had of enough of the self-serving sanctimony of public sector unions. They should all be subject to binding arbitration (so what if the government doesn’t want it either). If that isn’t good enough, then go work in the private sector and find out how tough it is to negotiate high wages & benefits.
24/7 public sector bargaining has to stop. It’s bad for the worker on the picket line with strike pay while the union execs get full pay. It’s bad for the taxpayer. Enough.
Thanks for the venting opportunity from a beleaguered BC taxpayer who’s had it with both sides in the teachers’ strike; though my heart goes out to the teachers sucked into the BCTF vortex.
To the taxpayers of Ontario. Please let me express my deep regret at your recent and future loss. We’ll all be diminished for it. Hang in there – you’re in for a tough, expensive, and interventionist 4+ years. Good luck and God bless.
I would like to see a full on Ronald Reagan..as in the air traffic controllers. Fire them all and bring in the surplus teachers that allegedly exist in B.C.. All the youthful enthusiasm, lower wages would be a bonus. Won’t happen, but would be nice to see.BCTF act as if they are a second government. The “entitlement” of these people smells.
Heh, how about we pay them for results?
As the students graduate we can judge the teachers work.
Fine and fire the failures, as the money will be necessary for the corrective studies of the students.
Congratulate the successful teachers, but then withhold their bonuses to pay for the damage done by their inferior comrades.
Might make these entitled parasites police their own.
Exactly Robert.
My argument back has always been, to this point, “Ontario and ALberta politicians bribed those teachers unions for their political support, it was never about ‘need’ or ‘performance’, it was an outright bribe. If things appear to be great there, then MOVE THERE.”
There are 1800 uni grads each year, qualified to teach in BC, and only 900 positions. Law of supply and demand. No need for outrageous wage or benefit increases whatsoever.
The problem with the BCTF (one of many for that matter) is that they are always trying to hit a Grand Slam while the bases are empty! They keep looking bakc at the last several failed negotiations, adn try to gain back everything over the last ten years. Their idea of negotiating is give us what we want or else. Their PR is poor, especially this time around, at grad. Very bad timing, and they have screwed their own, as the poor poor teachers miss their last paycheque of the year, AND none of them qualify for EI int he summer (yes, believe it or not, many qualify for this every year!).
Other issues with the arrogant teachers:
-An air of entitlement and superiority
-they are so much smaarter than the rest of us
-they are “saving every last child” (while admirable, its just a foolish sentimental idea
– that they have “a calling” (yikes)
-they believe that Christy Clark wants to eliminate the public school sytem, another non-sensical position.
-they cannot discuss or negotiate with adults successfully, as they are used to being the dominant voice on a daily basis.
I have one left in public school, next year Grade 12. For that matter, I hope the BCTF is kept on strike thru October, the teachers will be financially wounded, as they have already spent their strike fund on ongoing legal challenges with that evil, mean, awful, terrible (did I say evil already) provincial government.
One thing that is a real problem in the schools, is the inclusion of the “special” kids. This experiment (forced by a court decision) has been a dismal failure, adn helps nobody. They need to be segregated in their own classroom, where they can all get their help together, while not being disruptions in the regular classroom. Its defensible if any entitled parent of a special wants to challenge it,a s the current model is broken.
Best solution to all? A vouchure system, where we can pick the school, however after this year, I just wont care, other than the impact upon my taxes, which the BCTF doesn’t give a flip about.
“Its all about the kids, dontcha know?”
The problem is: would the politicians go for it?
WE all know the way to end this. Make public Unions illegal.
We now have rule in this country by government apparatchiks.
Yeah, except the Unionistas would vote as a block for whichever politician promised to legalize their ‘right’ to collective bargaining again. I think Governor Scott Walker of Wisconsin had it right, stop docking Union dues on public sector paychecks and let individual voluntary withholding kill the public unions.
Unionized public education is institutional organized crime. Public sector unions are a direct appendage of the NDP and are always engaged in political conspiracy, striving to unduly influence both sides of the negotiating table. The origins of public education were presumably to ensure universal access to education not to secure monopoly status for a pampered, deluded and thus self-abused guild. This system functions to the detriment of good teachers as much as it is a free ride for culls.
Ideally, all education should be privatized but barring that, vouchers, charter schools and breaking the monopoly of teachers unions should be a minimum goal.
Firstly, I don’t know if it is the same in Canada, but those in the USA studying education in university traditionally have the LOWEST SATs even lower than psychology majors.
I vaguely remember the era before widespread public sector unions. It was time when the public employees paid us the taxpayer a premium in the form of lower wages for the benefits they received. Those benefits included job security and a less stressful workplace since they were not generally required to work as hard as the private sector. They repaid this by generally doing an acceptable job.
Now things have slowly turned on their head with the public sector unions still getting job security, but they generally don’t do an acceptable job (yes there are exceptions but their idea of an acceptable job is much lower than ours), they get monstrously outsized paycheques and benefits. Too make matters worse, they not only feel entitled but hard done by.
They should never have been unionized. There employer has no competition to keep the agreements in line, nor do the negotiators have accountability.
Firstly, I don’t know if it is the same in Canada, but those in the USA studying education in university traditionally have the LOWEST SATs even lower than psychology majors.
I vaguely remember the era before widespread public sector unions. It was time when the public employees paid us the taxpayer a premium in the form of lower wages for the benefits they received. Those benefits included job security and a less stressful workplace since they were not generally required to work as hard as the private sector. They repaid this by generally doing an acceptable job.
Now things have slowly turned on their head with the public sector unions still getting job security, but they generally don’t do an acceptable job (yes there are exceptions but their idea of an acceptable job is much lower than ours), they get monstrously outsized paycheques and benefits. Too make matters worse, they not only feel entitled but hard done by.
They should never have been unionized. Their employer has no competition to keep the agreements in line, nor do the negotiators have accountability.
Every poll on the subject in BC has been severely flawed. Anyone with half a brain knows this strike is about salary increases and not the class size demands (which are just to ensure more jobs for teachers). The poll question that should be asked is do you want to see your school taxes increased to give the teachers the 20% raise they are demanding? You’d get a very different result than the one you get now.
My daughter and her husband just enrolled their eight year old in the Catholic school here for next year. They’re so fed up with the public system, just couldn’t stand another day of it. More than happy to pay the $200/mo. it will cost.
Couple interesting things mentioned during the interview. One, they’re atheist. No problem, becoming quite common in their school. Secondly, they mentioned that their daughter had had at least 15 substitute teachers this last year. The principal of the Catholic school replied that, over the last school year and for the entire school, they had enlisted the services of a substitute teacher exactly ONE TIME.
The whole damn thing is a shameless mess that’s way out of control!
Simplest solution is to just fire all of the teachers. Kids just need to be taught how to read, given a graduated curriculum and learn on their own. School was the greatest interruption that my education experienced and I’d be much further ahead now if I hadn’t been forced to sit through dumbed down versions of subjects.
Teachers are essentially grossly overpaid babysitters. Once one has fired all of the teachers, get babysitters for the students. What’s also needed are segregated classes with male babysitters for the boys and female babysitters for the girls. This alone would cause a 95% decrease in the incidence of “ADD” as female teachers haven’t a clue about male behavior. Great savings to the taxpayer overall and kids will learn about self-motivation early in life.
We have a winter home in Arizona, and as a matter of interest I started to keep track of professions of the snowbirds I met. Way and above all others it is teachers who have retirement homes in the warm climes. Second is law enforcement and third is farmers. My husband works in the oil industry but we do not have a pension , only what we have managed to do on our own. Cry me a river about teacher salaries they are rolling in dough on their pensions.
Clearly the BC teachers are looking for a happy ending with their massage demands.
I am hoping that after the muslims take over this will be resolved by much beheading of liberals.
I live on Vancouver Island and probably the most militant faction of the BCTF operates here. Last week, since he was out of school due to the strike, I took my 9yr old grandson for a hike. Without any prompting whatsoever, he began to talk about the dispute, saying that while his teacher likes her job, she HAD to carry a picket sign. I quickly disabused him of that notion, saying that she makes a personal choice to carry that sign. He also said that teachers don t get paid for summer, to which I explained that his Grandma and I did not get paid in January and February in our own business and that as adults, we simply learned to budget our annual income.
The point being, why is a nine year old, grade 3 student engaging in such conversations, unless they are being politicized in the classroom.
Of all the people in my circles of acquaintance none are as selfish, self-entitled and whiny, as those who are retired school teachers.
I forgot to add regarding the ‘massage therapy’ provision of their contract that I heard a teacher on the Bill Good radio show, trying to justify it. She (in a very whiny tone) claimed that it’s not a “free benefit” as they pay 12% of their wage into their benefit package – though I believe that includes their pension contribution, as well.
In any event, if they pay 12%, that leaves the beleaguered taxpayer picking up the balance. Many taxpayers struggle with paying for a dental appointment, while they enjoy the luxury of massage treatments. For teachers, it sounds like a ‘happy ending’.
I must have come from a disfunctional family. My father worked for the post office for 25 years and never took one sick day off. His sons learned from the example he set for us. I was a teacher for over 30 years and never took off more then two or three days a year and my brother had a government position with a similar sick leave record to me. We had learned from my father, a big factor in your job also consists of a responsibility to your employer and that is a concept that seems missing from many workers today. Just imagine the next generation who have watched their parents abuse the privileges of their government jobs this generation around.
EVERYTHING given to public sector employees is out of the private sector’s pockets.
They pay into their benefit package?!? With what?? Oh yeah…money they were given by the taxpayers!
They really don’t pay squat. “They pay” is just lefty common-core math.
I’m very close to pulling a Galt.
Perhaps the tax payers should go on a strike. Do you think the gov’t would notice? I think it is time to start pushing back. Maybe parents should withhold send sending their children. Or demand school vouchers …
Make the schools compete!
“I was a teacher for over 30 years and never took off more then two or three days a year”
That’s cute robw, especially when you consider that the school year is less than 200 days.
Self-employed people and people in the private sector take unpaid sick days if they require them but most of the time a business requires your presence every day, sick or not.
And no I don’t want you coming into contact with my children if you are sick, but the abuse now is something else.
Proving once again the immorality of Public sector unions and the Governments that cater to them for reasons of expediency, public image and incompetence. Fire them all and start again.
Many of us have already Gone Galt. This public strike you speak of has started.
Tell me more…please.
I”m planning to go Gallt soon. Doesn’t matter how hard I work, there’s no getting ahead …
Another conversation I like to have with ‘progressives’ is the need for unions in a monopoly environment. If my local unionized grocery store is undergoing a strike, I either cross the picket line to illustrate to the union members that they do not have my support, or take my business to a competing business, putting pressure on the employer to settle with their employees.
In a monopoly environment, the only pressure is on the customer. Both the union and the employer expect the customer to put pressure on their counterpart in order to extract a settlement. This is insanity.
The teacher’s union is less concerned with the well being of their members than with the control of the education system. That’s what it’s really about – who controls the system.
In a free market system, it’s ultimately the customer that holds the hammer because they vote with their feet and their wallet. In the public system it’s coercion, pure and simple.
My wife pointed out a salient point to me: Every day that they’re out on strike is a day that they’re not indoctrinating children with their lefty “progressive” amoral surreal illogical BS.
“WE all know the way to end this. Make public Unions illegal.”
…or pass a “Right To Work” law, allowing people to opt out of joining a union.
That’s the whole problem – if you want to teach in a public school in BC, you MUST belong to the BCTF.
Twenty four states in the US now have “Right To Work” laws – but not one Canadian province.
I vaguely remember the era before widespread public sector unions. It was time when the public employees paid us the taxpayer a premium in the form of lower wages for the benefits they received.
Posted by: vic in ont on June 15, 2014 2:50 PM | Reply
Indeed vic. It is exactly the same reason why government bonds sport lower yields than corporates.
Someone mentioned ending automatic paycheque deduction for union dues. That’s the only pragmatic solution to the problem. Ironically, I believe it was Milton Friedman who unwittingly came up with the magic solution to untrammelled government growth: automatic tax deductions at source. Imagine the difference if people had to cut a quarterly or annual cheque to these jokesters.
Also, think about the persistence of life insurance policies (at least in be past) as a result of automatic monthly debit.
HOWEVER are we aware of a single Canadian politician with the imagination or guts to pull off this systemic reform?
And of course there should be no public sector unions organizing against … what exactly?
The battle for who controls the minds of our kids was lost decades ago. We now reap the benefit in our society today. The vast majority view the education system as a cheaper day care alternative. When parents with kids in school look at their tax bill they realize they are getting a deal compared to forking out $1000 to $1400 per month to day care. Anything the children pick up in school that might provide means of supporting themselves later in life is a bonus.
Bottom line is the demographic continues to shrink the number of students and yet rationales continue to evolve in why the education budgets should continue increasing. A serious society would question why communication technology has not replaced the classroom. That conversation does not take place, why? Who controls the agenda? Jobs said before he died that his biggest regret was not focusing Apple on delivering a education alternative. Khan Academy has done this to some extent. The left is all in on supporting the current education system because they can control the message. So called conservatives wring their hands and do nothing!
this today from zerohedge:
English Industry Body Blames Increase In Worker Mental Health Problems On Austerity
Submitted by Tyler Durden on 06/16/2014 – 12:40
First the good news. According to the “Sickness Absence” survey of 330 firms, conducted by the EEF, or the UK’s manufacturing association, the number of days taken off work through sickness is at a record low. The survey found that over the past two years overall levels of worker absence reached a record low of 2.1%, equal to 4.9 days per worker per year
——————-
2.1% of a TEACHER’s year…. ???
http://www.otpp.com/members/your-working-years/contributions/contributions-q-as
The Ontario government and other employers match total annual member contributions…..
So they contribute, say $10500 (deductible, so they get $5K back), WE contribute
$10500, so into the pension goes $21,000 at a cost of $5K-6K…..