Can anyone think of a logical reason why the Social Security Administration would be purchasing ammunition? Via
73 Replies to “174,000 rounds of .357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point”
It is for forcing grandma at gun point to eat her cat food. And liking it.
Americans lost their freedom to a coup last January.
The effects of it have not surfaced yet except in a minor way to date. That will change slowly but preceptively.Like when Octavius took over the Old Republic after Cesare. The voting of councils still happened. The other abutments or appendages of a Republic still appeared to work. Like a seemingly free Senate. What changes is all power now ran towards one road. To the Emperor over all. Where does a real President of a Republic have the power to overrule both houses privileges as Augustus did over the Senate & tribunes?It began in earnest the act in which Obama made it legal to hold citizens without limit or bail last January.Let alone charges.
Freedom of speech has degraded to the point, people are purged for even saying a dissenting opinion. Demonized for even talking about over taxes. Private Property seized. Said President hides his past in a mythical well hid cocoon. The press now owes almost absolute homage to one man.
Same with our cultural outlets.
Slowly but surly with the alphabet soup gang he is raising his own Praetorian Guard. Loyal only to Him while debasing the armed forces. Even taking their votes away, while allowing illegal Citizens no scrutiny at all.
There is no way Obama will give up power. He already owns it all.
America you have been punked!!!
The executive now owns you. Through debt companies or Public property, he is making the USA a debt slave state while Immigration colonists that he can rely on. Its not the bullets you need worry about , he doesn’t need them. How many times has he now ridden over the Judicuary, Congress, Senate? All power gopes to him, all streams enter his river.Its the laws hes enacted that has killed your Republic..
“Note for instance that every state has its own army (the National Guard) under control of the state governor. To me it’s silly and inefficient , but they seem to prefer it that way.”
Silly? Inefficient? No.That would be centralized gubermint and armies.Just ask the Russians,Chinese,NORK’s,etc. how silly and inefficient their decentralized gubermints where,before Stalin,Mao,Kim il-sung,etc. took over.
But then to an obvious socialist like you,Bob,not wasting and stealing tax payers money to support pixie dust and unicorn farts would be silly.
It wouldn’t be the government has plans to loot public and private pension funds when it becomes the insolvent trustee of a bankrupt economy and collapsed dollar?
Folks may not take kindly to having their pensons looted to prop up too big to fail klepto-nomic institutions. Better arm up.
Bob “Note for instance that every state has its own army (the National Guard) under control of the state governor. To me it’s silly and inefficient , but they seem to prefer it that way.”
We are really not sure how decentralized the National Guard is or how much real control the states have. About 20 states have their own State Guard not under federal funding and control.
I seriously believe that IF Okenya ever truly attempted any serious ‘takeover’ or similar $#!t, it would be well-armed GOVERNMENT “security guards” who would be the FIRST line of armed resistance to him and his leftist minions.
DHS tells border patrol agents to run and hide
I am not sure why anyone would use hollow point for target practice? Extra cost.
I see Bob has yet to explain why any of these alphabet soup outfits needs expensive hollow point ammo for -practice-.
Let us cease pretending that such big purchases of combat ammo, not practice ammo, are normal for non-police agencies shall we?
The 357 sig is a pretty hot round. The JHP would cut down on through and throughs as stated earlier.
When ordering in bulk, JHP would only add a few pennies per round. Better to deal with only one type of round for work and practise and avoid mixups.
Political patronage is usually the answer.
Spend like crazy to thwart your opponents
if they win power.
.
Ugh, People read the actual GSA contract please. IN the SSA request for bid (from Disabled Veteran small business owners) there is a link to an excel spreadsheet. On that spreadsheet they tell you it is going to 41 SSA offices nationwide. Now 174,000 sound like lot however that is only 4,244 rounds per office on average. The actual amounts to each office vary some more some less due to office size.
Now besides that they have a list of Acronyms in the address and in this case it is SSA/OIG/OI.
Those Acronyms tell you who it is going to:
SSA – Social Security Administration
OIG – Office of the Inspector General
OI – Office of Investigations
The rounds are going to the sworn investigators of the Office of Inspector General who go out and arrest people for Fraud. The FBI doesn’t arrest Social Security and Medicare Fraudsters the SSA does that themselves.
Now why you are seeing a rush to by ammo by these agencies is because the end of the budget year is coming up and if they don’t spend it all they get their budget cut next year. See how it works in DC you get penalized for saving money. That is why they never save and buy consumables such as paper, pencils and bullets at this time of the year.
The mission of the SSA Office of Investigations:
The Office of Investigations (OI) (S8B) conducts and coordinates investigative activity related to fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement in SSA programs and operations including wrongdoing by individuals such as applicants, grantees, or contractors perpetrating criminal activity against SSA programs and operations. OI also investigates allegations of employee misconduct in the performance of their official duties. This office serves as the OIG liaison to the Department of Justice on all matters relating to investigations of SSA programs and personnel, and reports to the Attorney General when OIG has reason to believe Federal criminal law has been violated. OI works with other investigative agencies and organizations on special projects and assignments. In support of its mission, OI carries out and maintains an internal quality assurance system.
Sure Bob. Except that now DHS has started redacting the information regarding amounts to be purchased in their published solicitations.
Except that the redacted info is regarding .223 ammo, not service pistol ammo.
Except that as I mentioned earlier, -nobody- practices with hollow point.
Oh, and except that this has been going on more than six months now, so the “end-of-budget-year” argument falls a bit flat. “End-of-year” does not start halfway through the year.
Bottom line Bob. The US government is buying really -large- amounts of “duty” ammunition, not practice ammunition, for a really -large- number of federal agencies whose mission is not usually understood to be law enforcement. How much pistol, rifle and shotgun ammunition, body armor, helmets, night vision gear and armored vehicles would you expect the Department of Education to need, Bob? New purchases by the way, not replacements for old.
Its almost as if somebody got in to an office four years ago, read the Posse Comitatus Act for the first time and said “Well, we’ll have to do something about that!” Almost. And given Fast&Furious we know the current administration is -stupid- enough to go with grand plans.
But I don’t believe in Grand Plans and conspiracies. I think its a fad in the Federal bureaucracy. Computerizing everything in existence used to be a fad, now having a SWAT team is a fad. Mission creep, turbo-nitrous version. And you know damn well Bob, you hand a bureaucrat a shiny new toy and he’s going to take it out for a spin. Just think back to how well that worked out for the ATF under Clinton, and multiply by thirty other federal departments.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, how far do you want to bend over backward trying to object that it might be a dog?
Oz – That I goofed on who the guards work for is pretty obvious. Again, I was trying to show how fast just a few armed people can burn through a great deal of ammo, making the quantity in question in reality pretty small.
You are challenging me to provide proof that this small ‘police force’ is constitutionally legal. Get real. They’re there; nobody in the USA has successfully challenged their existence on constitutional grounds. You’re the one challenging – the onus is on you to provide some evidence of that claim.
As to their being status, how about testimony to the House of Representatives Social Security Committee from the SSA Inspector General himself, James Huse. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/legacy/socsec/107cong/5-10-01/107-30final.htm#huse. Some excerpts:
“Well, right now the office of the Inspector General has its actual police powers, it has law enforcement powers provided by a deputation from the United States Marshall Service. Our agents are special deputy United States marshals. And we do not sneer at that. That is a pretty good status. But as an OIG, we lead all of the inspector generals in government in terms of arrests, in terms of what we do in our investigative activities.”
The significant bit there is that the SSA OIG agents are out on the street doing a lot of arrests. Still clearer for those who need it is a Q&A between Huse and a Texas Congressman during that hearing:
“Mr. JOHNSON. Right. Are your guys trained as law enforcement officials? Do they carry weapons?
Mr. HUSE. They do now, and they are trained exactly the same as any other Federal agent with the same requirements and maintain the same standards of physical fitness and firearms prowess. I would submit that in the past 5 years, we have become one of the best and most professional pieces of Federal law enforcement there is.”
In short, they’re cops. They do a lot of arrests. They are armed. They have to, “maintain the same standards of… firearms prowess.” That means they have to shoot regularly. That means the SSA needs bullets, lots of them, (This is just for the Office of the Inspector-General; there may well be other groups within SSA required to carry weapons on duty as well, but the SSA’s use of ammo is clear.)
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So sorry to expose this ‘plot’ as nothing more than a govt department making a routine purchase. I realize that must be disappointing for those who view the world as one big cabal, but this is nothing more than a normal buy of (in context) a small quantity of ammo. Not everything – not even everything the US govt does – has to be a conspiracy and those trying to warp everything they see into ‘evidence’ generally wind grasping at straws.
Why hollow-points? One reason is that you train as you want to operate. Use low-powered rounds for training and people get used to only firing low-powered rounds. Moreover, having just one type simplifies things on the supply side. Also, while I haven’t personally fired the pistols in question, some automatics are somewhat fussy about what they shoot; it’s possible that lower-powered, cheaper rounds might not operate properly. Different loads tend to shoot to a different point of aim as well. Lots of possible explanations, in other words. (For perspective, the Canadian military doesn’t use ‘training’ rounds for target practice; their range shoots are all done with ‘battle’ ammunition.) All in all, the ammo in question is nothing more than normal cop/security guard ammo. Nothing sinister about its nature, sorry.
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For those challenging the need for any guards at all, consider the following from another SSA website:
“The Office of the Inspector General received e-mail survey responses from 2,141 randomly selected SSA employees whose duties were likely to involve interaction with the public. The employees provided general opinions on workplace safety as well as SSA’s threat reporting process. About 13 percent of respondents indicated they were threatened at work during the past three years-half of those respondents were threatened more than once. ” http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/news-releases/social-security-inspector-general-report-threats-against-social-security
In the USA, that translates to, “We need armed guards.”
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Justhinkin @ 7:05. Normally, I thought, it’s the lefties who start throwing insults and epithets around when they run out of intelligent things to say. Sure you haven’t strayed from another website by mistake?
Bob said: “For perspective, the Canadian military doesn’t use ‘training’ rounds for target practice; their range shoots are all done with ‘battle’ ammunition.”
My previous large comment got stuck in the filter, so I’ll just say this:
Bob, the Canadian military uses hardball because the Geneva Convention bans hollow points. They never get issued JHP. Ever. I find it interesting you don’t know that.
Cops don’t practice with JHP. They purchase hardball for training, JHP for duty carry.
Still haven’t heard from you why Dept. of Education needs armed men and a SWAT team.
The Phantom – First, not all the CF uses hardball; some elements definitely use HP.
Secondly, whether or not JHP is legal under the Conventions is immaterial. My point was that Canadian troops are not issued special training rounds for their rifle, pistol or MG range practises; they use the same thing they would use in battle. It was used as an example, to respond to somebody’s question as to why a distinct type of ammo wasn’t being purchased if the intent was to use it in training.
As to why the DOE needs its own cops, seach me. The Yanks seem to like every agency, department, organization and institution to have its own separate, independent police force (by whatever name). This is nothing particularly secret, nor is it anything particularly new; it’s been the norm for a long, long time. To me, it seems pointless, needlessly complicated and even counterproductive, but it’s how they do things.
Why they have cops is in any case not particularly germane to this discussion, which centres on why SSA would need ammo in the first place. That the SSA has armed officers is a given and from there it’s simple logic that, as cops need to shoot regularly, it’s no particular suprise that they will need to buy ammo from time to time.
Bob said: “First, not all the CF uses hardball; some elements definitely use HP.”
Given the Geneva Convention Bob, I think you’re going to have to come up with names here. What units, for what duty. Because its a crime for military operations to use hollow point ammo.
Canadian Forces soldiers most definitely do not use JHPs in range practice or on operations.
“My point was that Canadian troops are not issued special training rounds for their rifle, pistol or MG range practises.”
Yes. Because they shoot FMJ in the field and at the range both. Pistol and rifle the same. Because JHP is never issued.
However there is another issue you’re implying, which is that “training” ammunition loads smaller charges and lighter bullets. This is incorrect. FMJ hardball is fired for training because it is -considerably- cheaper than duty-issue ammunition for pistols. Like, half the price or less than Federal Hydrashok or Speer Gold Dot, or whatever snake-charmer round the agency specified. Ballistics and bullet weight are the same, FMJ just doesn’t carry the large mark-up that patent ammunition carries.
Your arguments fail to convince, sir.
What Phantom said.
No one trains with hollow point for cost reasons unless running defensive loads to ensure reliability.
Why are people entertaining “Bob”.
Mao and Stalin had a hundred million Bobs telling the rest to “go to sleep, everythings fine.” Bobs are a dime a dozen, although this one seems to keep himself personally armed.
I wouldn’t be betting any farms on what Bob has to say. Take the effort to get informed instead of listening to online armchair philosophers that claim to have all the answers you need.
It’s important that you do.
The real issue (which a lot of people seem to be tap dancing around) is why so many agencies have armed enforcement units to begin with. The idea of petty bureaucrats with weapons should be frightening (especially if you have ever had to deal with one in person).
In the American context, consider that many government employees have been applying the law in very “partisan” and selective ways (Wisconsin was a very illuminating example, with the Police rather openly siding with the people attempting to disrupt the lawful operation of the State government), With weapons, bureaucrats now have the means to ensure that the public really does shut up and listen to their betters rather than agitate against ever higher salaries, pensions and benefits.
President Obama called for a force armed and equipped to military standards for deployment in the United States, it looks like he has figured out a way to get there with minimal attention.
Alcibiades >
Bingo!
And they needn’t bring up the crime rates comming from the liberal ghetto systems of their creation either.
They did that to us as well.
It is for forcing grandma at gun point to eat her cat food. And liking it.
Americans lost their freedom to a coup last January.
The effects of it have not surfaced yet except in a minor way to date. That will change slowly but preceptively.Like when Octavius took over the Old Republic after Cesare. The voting of councils still happened. The other abutments or appendages of a Republic still appeared to work. Like a seemingly free Senate. What changes is all power now ran towards one road. To the Emperor over all. Where does a real President of a Republic have the power to overrule both houses privileges as Augustus did over the Senate & tribunes?It began in earnest the act in which Obama made it legal to hold citizens without limit or bail last January.Let alone charges.
Freedom of speech has degraded to the point, people are purged for even saying a dissenting opinion. Demonized for even talking about over taxes. Private Property seized. Said President hides his past in a mythical well hid cocoon. The press now owes almost absolute homage to one man.
Same with our cultural outlets.
Slowly but surly with the alphabet soup gang he is raising his own Praetorian Guard. Loyal only to Him while debasing the armed forces. Even taking their votes away, while allowing illegal Citizens no scrutiny at all.
There is no way Obama will give up power. He already owns it all.
America you have been punked!!!
The executive now owns you. Through debt companies or Public property, he is making the USA a debt slave state while Immigration colonists that he can rely on. Its not the bullets you need worry about , he doesn’t need them. How many times has he now ridden over the Judicuary, Congress, Senate? All power gopes to him, all streams enter his river.Its the laws hes enacted that has killed your Republic..
qwerty 6:24 PM
LOL, funniest thing I’ve read today.
“Note for instance that every state has its own army (the National Guard) under control of the state governor. To me it’s silly and inefficient , but they seem to prefer it that way.”
Silly? Inefficient? No.That would be centralized gubermint and armies.Just ask the Russians,Chinese,NORK’s,etc. how silly and inefficient their decentralized gubermints where,before Stalin,Mao,Kim il-sung,etc. took over.
But then to an obvious socialist like you,Bob,not wasting and stealing tax payers money to support pixie dust and unicorn farts would be silly.
It wouldn’t be the government has plans to loot public and private pension funds when it becomes the insolvent trustee of a bankrupt economy and collapsed dollar?
Folks may not take kindly to having their pensons looted to prop up too big to fail klepto-nomic institutions. Better arm up.
Bob “Note for instance that every state has its own army (the National Guard) under control of the state governor. To me it’s silly and inefficient , but they seem to prefer it that way.”
We are really not sure how decentralized the National Guard is or how much real control the states have. About 20 states have their own State Guard not under federal funding and control.
I seriously believe that IF Okenya ever truly attempted any serious ‘takeover’ or similar $#!t, it would be well-armed GOVERNMENT “security guards” who would be the FIRST line of armed resistance to him and his leftist minions.
DHS tells border patrol agents to run and hide
I am not sure why anyone would use hollow point for target practice? Extra cost.
I see Bob has yet to explain why any of these alphabet soup outfits needs expensive hollow point ammo for -practice-.
Let us cease pretending that such big purchases of combat ammo, not practice ammo, are normal for non-police agencies shall we?
The 357 sig is a pretty hot round. The JHP would cut down on through and throughs as stated earlier.
When ordering in bulk, JHP would only add a few pennies per round. Better to deal with only one type of round for work and practise and avoid mixups.
Political patronage is usually the answer.
Spend like crazy to thwart your opponents
if they win power.
.
I found this and don’t endorse this but despite a coupla cameos Of Alex Jones it doesn’t seem that tin-foil hat to me.
Worth pondering….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=nXg2WsNCrW4
Ugh, People read the actual GSA contract please. IN the SSA request for bid (from Disabled Veteran small business owners) there is a link to an excel spreadsheet. On that spreadsheet they tell you it is going to 41 SSA offices nationwide. Now 174,000 sound like lot however that is only 4,244 rounds per office on average. The actual amounts to each office vary some more some less due to office size.
Now besides that they have a list of Acronyms in the address and in this case it is SSA/OIG/OI.
Those Acronyms tell you who it is going to:
SSA – Social Security Administration
OIG – Office of the Inspector General
OI – Office of Investigations
The rounds are going to the sworn investigators of the Office of Inspector General who go out and arrest people for Fraud. The FBI doesn’t arrest Social Security and Medicare Fraudsters the SSA does that themselves.
Now why you are seeing a rush to by ammo by these agencies is because the end of the budget year is coming up and if they don’t spend it all they get their budget cut next year. See how it works in DC you get penalized for saving money. That is why they never save and buy consumables such as paper, pencils and bullets at this time of the year.
The mission of the SSA Office of Investigations:
The Office of Investigations (OI) (S8B) conducts and coordinates investigative activity related to fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement in SSA programs and operations including wrongdoing by individuals such as applicants, grantees, or contractors perpetrating criminal activity against SSA programs and operations. OI also investigates allegations of employee misconduct in the performance of their official duties. This office serves as the OIG liaison to the Department of Justice on all matters relating to investigations of SSA programs and personnel, and reports to the Attorney General when OIG has reason to believe Federal criminal law has been violated. OI works with other investigative agencies and organizations on special projects and assignments. In support of its mission, OI carries out and maintains an internal quality assurance system.
Sure Bob. Except that now DHS has started redacting the information regarding amounts to be purchased in their published solicitations.
Except that the redacted info is regarding .223 ammo, not service pistol ammo.
Except that as I mentioned earlier, -nobody- practices with hollow point.
Oh, and except that this has been going on more than six months now, so the “end-of-budget-year” argument falls a bit flat. “End-of-year” does not start halfway through the year.
Bottom line Bob. The US government is buying really -large- amounts of “duty” ammunition, not practice ammunition, for a really -large- number of federal agencies whose mission is not usually understood to be law enforcement. How much pistol, rifle and shotgun ammunition, body armor, helmets, night vision gear and armored vehicles would you expect the Department of Education to need, Bob? New purchases by the way, not replacements for old.
Its almost as if somebody got in to an office four years ago, read the Posse Comitatus Act for the first time and said “Well, we’ll have to do something about that!” Almost. And given Fast&Furious we know the current administration is -stupid- enough to go with grand plans.
But I don’t believe in Grand Plans and conspiracies. I think its a fad in the Federal bureaucracy. Computerizing everything in existence used to be a fad, now having a SWAT team is a fad. Mission creep, turbo-nitrous version. And you know damn well Bob, you hand a bureaucrat a shiny new toy and he’s going to take it out for a spin. Just think back to how well that worked out for the ATF under Clinton, and multiply by thirty other federal departments.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, how far do you want to bend over backward trying to object that it might be a dog?
Oz – That I goofed on who the guards work for is pretty obvious. Again, I was trying to show how fast just a few armed people can burn through a great deal of ammo, making the quantity in question in reality pretty small.
You are challenging me to provide proof that this small ‘police force’ is constitutionally legal. Get real. They’re there; nobody in the USA has successfully challenged their existence on constitutional grounds. You’re the one challenging – the onus is on you to provide some evidence of that claim.
As to their being status, how about testimony to the House of Representatives Social Security Committee from the SSA Inspector General himself, James Huse. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/legacy/socsec/107cong/5-10-01/107-30final.htm#huse. Some excerpts:
“Well, right now the office of the Inspector General has its actual police powers, it has law enforcement powers provided by a deputation from the United States Marshall Service. Our agents are special deputy United States marshals. And we do not sneer at that. That is a pretty good status. But as an OIG, we lead all of the inspector generals in government in terms of arrests, in terms of what we do in our investigative activities.”
The significant bit there is that the SSA OIG agents are out on the street doing a lot of arrests. Still clearer for those who need it is a Q&A between Huse and a Texas Congressman during that hearing:
“Mr. JOHNSON. Right. Are your guys trained as law enforcement officials? Do they carry weapons?
Mr. HUSE. They do now, and they are trained exactly the same as any other Federal agent with the same requirements and maintain the same standards of physical fitness and firearms prowess. I would submit that in the past 5 years, we have become one of the best and most professional pieces of Federal law enforcement there is.”
In short, they’re cops. They do a lot of arrests. They are armed. They have to, “maintain the same standards of… firearms prowess.” That means they have to shoot regularly. That means the SSA needs bullets, lots of them, (This is just for the Office of the Inspector-General; there may well be other groups within SSA required to carry weapons on duty as well, but the SSA’s use of ammo is clear.)
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So sorry to expose this ‘plot’ as nothing more than a govt department making a routine purchase. I realize that must be disappointing for those who view the world as one big cabal, but this is nothing more than a normal buy of (in context) a small quantity of ammo. Not everything – not even everything the US govt does – has to be a conspiracy and those trying to warp everything they see into ‘evidence’ generally wind grasping at straws.
Why hollow-points? One reason is that you train as you want to operate. Use low-powered rounds for training and people get used to only firing low-powered rounds. Moreover, having just one type simplifies things on the supply side. Also, while I haven’t personally fired the pistols in question, some automatics are somewhat fussy about what they shoot; it’s possible that lower-powered, cheaper rounds might not operate properly. Different loads tend to shoot to a different point of aim as well. Lots of possible explanations, in other words. (For perspective, the Canadian military doesn’t use ‘training’ rounds for target practice; their range shoots are all done with ‘battle’ ammunition.) All in all, the ammo in question is nothing more than normal cop/security guard ammo. Nothing sinister about its nature, sorry.
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For those challenging the need for any guards at all, consider the following from another SSA website:
“The Office of the Inspector General received e-mail survey responses from 2,141 randomly selected SSA employees whose duties were likely to involve interaction with the public. The employees provided general opinions on workplace safety as well as SSA’s threat reporting process. About 13 percent of respondents indicated they were threatened at work during the past three years-half of those respondents were threatened more than once. ” http://oig.ssa.gov/newsroom/news-releases/social-security-inspector-general-report-threats-against-social-security
In the USA, that translates to, “We need armed guards.”
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Justhinkin @ 7:05. Normally, I thought, it’s the lefties who start throwing insults and epithets around when they run out of intelligent things to say. Sure you haven’t strayed from another website by mistake?
Bob said: “For perspective, the Canadian military doesn’t use ‘training’ rounds for target practice; their range shoots are all done with ‘battle’ ammunition.”
My previous large comment got stuck in the filter, so I’ll just say this:
Bob, the Canadian military uses hardball because the Geneva Convention bans hollow points. They never get issued JHP. Ever. I find it interesting you don’t know that.
Cops don’t practice with JHP. They purchase hardball for training, JHP for duty carry.
Still haven’t heard from you why Dept. of Education needs armed men and a SWAT team.
The Phantom – First, not all the CF uses hardball; some elements definitely use HP.
Secondly, whether or not JHP is legal under the Conventions is immaterial. My point was that Canadian troops are not issued special training rounds for their rifle, pistol or MG range practises; they use the same thing they would use in battle. It was used as an example, to respond to somebody’s question as to why a distinct type of ammo wasn’t being purchased if the intent was to use it in training.
As to why the DOE needs its own cops, seach me. The Yanks seem to like every agency, department, organization and institution to have its own separate, independent police force (by whatever name). This is nothing particularly secret, nor is it anything particularly new; it’s been the norm for a long, long time. To me, it seems pointless, needlessly complicated and even counterproductive, but it’s how they do things.
Why they have cops is in any case not particularly germane to this discussion, which centres on why SSA would need ammo in the first place. That the SSA has armed officers is a given and from there it’s simple logic that, as cops need to shoot regularly, it’s no particular suprise that they will need to buy ammo from time to time.
Bob said: “First, not all the CF uses hardball; some elements definitely use HP.”
Given the Geneva Convention Bob, I think you’re going to have to come up with names here. What units, for what duty. Because its a crime for military operations to use hollow point ammo.
Canadian Forces soldiers most definitely do not use JHPs in range practice or on operations.
“My point was that Canadian troops are not issued special training rounds for their rifle, pistol or MG range practises.”
Yes. Because they shoot FMJ in the field and at the range both. Pistol and rifle the same. Because JHP is never issued.
However there is another issue you’re implying, which is that “training” ammunition loads smaller charges and lighter bullets. This is incorrect. FMJ hardball is fired for training because it is -considerably- cheaper than duty-issue ammunition for pistols. Like, half the price or less than Federal Hydrashok or Speer Gold Dot, or whatever snake-charmer round the agency specified. Ballistics and bullet weight are the same, FMJ just doesn’t carry the large mark-up that patent ammunition carries.
Your arguments fail to convince, sir.
What Phantom said.
No one trains with hollow point for cost reasons unless running defensive loads to ensure reliability.
Why are people entertaining “Bob”.
Mao and Stalin had a hundred million Bobs telling the rest to “go to sleep, everythings fine.” Bobs are a dime a dozen, although this one seems to keep himself personally armed.
I wouldn’t be betting any farms on what Bob has to say. Take the effort to get informed instead of listening to online armchair philosophers that claim to have all the answers you need.
It’s important that you do.
The real issue (which a lot of people seem to be tap dancing around) is why so many agencies have armed enforcement units to begin with. The idea of petty bureaucrats with weapons should be frightening (especially if you have ever had to deal with one in person).
In the American context, consider that many government employees have been applying the law in very “partisan” and selective ways (Wisconsin was a very illuminating example, with the Police rather openly siding with the people attempting to disrupt the lawful operation of the State government), With weapons, bureaucrats now have the means to ensure that the public really does shut up and listen to their betters rather than agitate against ever higher salaries, pensions and benefits.
President Obama called for a force armed and equipped to military standards for deployment in the United States, it looks like he has figured out a way to get there with minimal attention.
Alcibiades >
Bingo!
And they needn’t bring up the crime rates comming from the liberal ghetto systems of their creation either.
They did that to us as well.