Paul Rahe has recently published two important columns, here and here. Some in the Catholic church are very annoyed. If I were a Leftist Catholic, I would be too. h/t Nick
26 Replies to “Has Modern Catholicism Become Intertwined with Big Government?”
Frankly ALL churches have become gutless when dealing with Church members who don,t follow Biblical precepts. The Catholic Church should have ex communicated the arch abortionist Trudeau. Not be given him a Catholic funeral. The same goes for the pseudo-Catholics with power. In Evangelical or Protestant circles no adherents to Biblical doctrines has lead to moral decay. Once again by not bring miscreants to heel by kicking them out or not giving them communion.
This is the Biblical approach after talking one on one than taken before the Church as a whole. If they don’t repent they are out of fellowship. Christians don’t hurt apostates we shun them.
When people cease to believe or try to destroy your traditions why keep letting them? They can start tier own church. I figure to many Priests, Ministers or Pastors like being around powerful people, more than they love the flock of Christ.
Let alone The Messiah of Israel Joshua.
They are playing to the Devil for the praise of men.
Jews and Catholics love voting for those who least support their views. Better to side with the devil than a Protestant.
In Alberta Catholics have equal rights to publicly funded education larger thanks to the treasonous murderer Riel. I’m amazed how some school boards run essentially secular programs recruiting non-Catholic kids. They have the constitutional right to be different but often water down the message.
A couple of questions for you Revnant Dream: Is the Church to be a home for Saints or a hospital for Sinners? If it is to be a home for Saints who will decide which ‘Biblical’ precept will be followed and to what extent? Then of course what shall be done regarding ‘sinful’ acts that aren’t specifically mentioned in the Bible? A case in point. An angry old fellow went to see his pastor regarding the shameless drift of society. Why it had got so bad out there that women were wearing pants! The old fellow figured the preacher should mention this in a sermon or two. The pastor then asked the old fellow what size pants he wore. The old fellow told him and the pastor disappeared for a bit. He returned shortly with a nice pair of pants and told the old fellow to put them on. The old fellow snorted I’m not going to put them on their women’s pants.
Blame the boomers …
Up until my late teens I was a very devout Roman Catholic. But around that time I started realizing that the sermons being given by the priests didn’t resonate with me. It only occurred to me years later that the messages being espoused were not too different than what would be said by a devout socialist and/or kumbaya devotee.
It all sounds so good at first blush but then you realize that there’s no accountability and self-responsibility required. Many Canadians have woken up to this reality. Judging the dwindling numbers of Catholic parishioners in Canada, the verdict to these left-wing priests seems clear too.
Churchmen have long abandoned the mission of Christ and the Church He founded (read the Bible- Matthew 16:18 and John 21:16) and convinced themselves that the Church’s mission somehow meant trusting a government that would swallow them up. Now, things have gone too far to deny what the government will do to the Church.
Obama may have underestimated the backlash but it is the liberal Catholics who should give their heads a shake.
Joe
This has nothing to do with personnel sin but injecting politics over the Bible, with false beliefs in Churches to change them from a place of repentance with Worship of God by sinners. Which we all are by the way.You ask Joshua for forgiveness he gives freely if your sincere in sorrow. salvation is not by works or the flesh. He died on a cross for this. It was Gods greatest Victory. To turn a house from God to a Political Party where morals become less important than the culture of the World. See United Church or Anglican communion for what happens. The NDP on their knees. We are to be of the World, but not part of it. Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this World. We call people to repentance not social fads. A relation ship with God. Not the PM.
Some of these folks are wolves their to rend God Flock. People who want to purposely destroy. Those we call to repent. If not they can have their own organizations. Christs message. One only has to Sincerly ask Jesus for forgiveness tio get it.
What I don’t want is a house of politics of the World but a real place of learning the ways of the Living God. Not the latest social trends of a rotting dying civilization.
The Bible warns about this so many times I have doubts you have read it, & not seen it yourself?
From money preachers, to false teachers.
Catholics are left-wing and are hypocrites to their very core. Always have been, always will be.
“It only occurred to me years later that the messages being espoused were not too different than what would be said by a devout socialist and/or kumbaya devotee. ”
You nailed it Robert! Well said – hear hear.
TJ- all of them?
TJ, sadly I can’t concur with what you wrote. You’ve just stated that all Catholics in the world are left-wing hypocrites? Sorry, but I know more than a few who are not.
One of the things I like about Rick Santorum, is that he is standing his ground and not apologizing for what he believes. Whether he wins or not, I hope he stays in and gives people the courage to state what they believe unashamedly. The liberals have been using shame as a means of silencing people of faith for too long.
Only those who agree with them were allowed to speak.
“TJ- all of them?”
Enough of them that “all” is suitable qualifier. I don’t think it is an exaggeration.
Funny thing is I never realized that the Catholic religion was so liberal until I was in my thirties. Religion is a bit complex to understand when you are young, and I just assumed that all Christian religions were more or less equally conservative in their ideas.
As for hypocrisy, you only have to look at the nonchalant attitude of the Catholic church toward those Catholics who follow little of the church’s doctrine.
Timely article by Steyn here: http://www.steynonline.com/4829/the-catholic-state
I know a Roman Catholic who’s conservative. (me)
“All Catholics are left wing, if Obama wins the next term then he will make Catholics perform abortions.”
Neither of these statements is true. Also there is no such thing a left Catholic. There are however Leftist posing as Catholics. If all Cradle Catholics went through the R.C.I.A. they would realize that the Precepts of the Church have not changed. What is constant is the attack the church is under by Satan or Evil or Baal or whatever name you want to use .
Like it or not the tree of Christianity leads back to the Catholic Church and then to Christ. This is why the Church has always suffered scandal but still survives. It is not the scandal that survives but the image of Christ.
The latest attack has been on two fronts Social Justice and extremely disturbed men who desecrated that what is most sacred to satisfy their twisted desire.
Since both of these are not compatible with the Precepts of the Church they will be weeded out just like indulgences.
The leftist will leave the Church and the Church will shut down Hospitals before they do abortions.
Before any trolls attack me save your breath. I was raised Protestant left became an atheist and converted to the Roman Catholic Church right when the evil in Boston was in full melt down, so I have heard it all from trolls in real life.
There is a great evil in the world right now and sooner or later it will affect everyone and we all will have to chose where we stand on a lot of issues.
Peace be with you.
Conservativism(spelled properly),transcends religion. True conservatives easily embrace those of a different faith who share the same values while holding in veiled contempt those of their own faith who do not. The Catholic Centre Party (BVP) was formed in 1871. Originally the party sought to defend Catholic interests against the predominantly Protestant policies of Otto von Bismarck. However, it later became more concerned with the growth of socialism and communism in Germany. The BVP gradually grew in size and was able to join coalition governments in Germany. Chancellors supplied by the party included Matthias Erzberger, Wilhelm Marx, Heinrich Brüning and Franz von Papen. When Adolf Hitler became chancellor in January 1933 he invited the BVP to join his government and Franz von Papen became vice-chancellor. On 23rd March, 1933, all members of the BVP in the Reichstag voted for the Enabling Bill which gave Hitler dictatorial powers. In June, 1933, Hitler dissolved the BVP and forced its leader, Franz von Papen, to leave the government. http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERcentre.htm Fools, all of them.
“Fear Not” Joannes Paulus (Secundus) Magnus
The Catholic writers who are bestsellers tend to be converts, Newman, Chesterton, and, I have found the late Richard John Neuhaus, Malcolm Muggeridge, Evelyn Waugh even Cardinal Manning, and a hundred others. They have been called called anti-Semites and right wing radicals. Canadians like those found in Catholic Insight, which is well worth its subscription cost. Cradle Catholics, many of them, seem afraid to stick up their heads and give some of the Bishops, holy Hell!
@FORD PERFECT
I can understand where you are coming from as I never knew the lord or of the lord growing up , I herd the call but ignored it as a ute , till finally the holy spirt , was screaming so loud in my ear , and god was doing things to me in my life(and not nice things but he did what he did so I would listen to his call). But I was an atheist till I was 28 ..it was only after I asked Jesus into my heart and let the holy spirit start to work in me that I realized these things. I agree with all you said, I am a Lutheran but the LCC Missouri synod not the gay marrying ,female pastor one ..my congregation is young and growing and yes evangelical and brace yourself conservative.
@revnant dream read what I wrote to perfect ford….I want you to know our church split from the main body of the Lutheran church as they stopped teaching scripture as the perfect god inspired word. So no not all churches maybe some catholic or evangelical Protestant churches but not all many people are starting to see the devil at the pulpit and are leaving.
I see the usual anti-Catholic bigotry is out in force.
Are you guys all meeting down at the Orange Hall later?
Incidentally, it’s simply not possible to be a Leftist Catholic.
A Catholic Leftist, certainly. But that’s something quite different.
nice to see all the oranges asses out in the wind.
Robert’s an idiot Kate, haven’t you figured that out yet?
I was raised Roman Catholic Luke.
OMMAG, blame the Boomers ? Don’t know how old you are but I sure as hell hope you live in the USA and are paying your Social Security taxes so that I can collect them in about 4 years. Thanks in advance.
,
FTA ‘American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
Paul A. Rahe’: ” When entitlements stand in for charity and the Social Gospel is preached in place of the Word of God, heaven on earth becomes the end, and Christianity goes by the boards.”
Take that you heathens !
,
Where I come from my job as a preacher is to preach the Gospel. The message is simple: You need to be saved by Jesus. Any political thoughts on my part are simply my opinion. Christianity itself is politically neutral and can be used to support either a leftist or rightist position. However one of the great difficulties is taking the Christian gospel and developing a coherent world view out of it. Well that and keeping my own political view point out of my preaching.
There is a general misunderstanding of the difference between Catholic Theology and Catholic Doctrine. The latter is frequently abused and laced with questionable attributes. I live within a Diocese so divided that the practices of Parishes are easily differentiated. This is magnified by the unchecked spread of the Charismatic movement and the pedantic “New Catholic Mass”.
If this shakes your faith, read this: 1550 This presence of Christ in the minister is not to be understood as if the latter were preserved from all human weaknesses, the spirit of domination, error, even sin. The power of the Holy Spirit does not guarantee all acts of ministers in the same way. While this guarantee extends to the sacraments, so that even the minister’s sin cannot impede the fruit of grace, in many other acts the minister leaves human traces that are not always signs of fidelity to the Gospel and consequently can harm the apostolic fruitfulness of the Church.
If it shakes your conservativism (spelled correctly), God help us all.
It does not make one “orange” to point out failures of the Catholic church. Quite the contrary.
Cradle Catholic, grave conservative.
“Catholics are left-wing and are hypocrites to their very core. Always have been, always will be.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States#Shift_of_Catholics_away_from_the_Democratic_party
Catholics have been fleeing the Liberal Party in Canada and the Democratic Party in USA for quite some time now; we would be entering the 20th consecutive year of Liberal government were it not for the Catholic vote: http://www2.macleans.ca/2008/11/24/catholics-flee-liberals-in-droves/
I think Christ was a proto-Marxist in many respects, but its the atheists and “Christian Lite” protestant sects which are most stridently leftist, and that is a fact.
I gotta say, this post was stupid. Obama proposes a typically atheist abortion scheme, the Church freaks out, and somehow we get a post stating that Catholics and big gov are in cahoots? That’s the opposite of the logical conclusion here.
Three of the top 10 countries of origin of immigrants are very Catholic(Phillipines, Mexico, and Colombia); while the protestant sects are dying out, Catholicism is thriving, notwithstanding the misinformation in this thread. Go ahead and bash Catholics all you want, just get your facts straight first.
In Alberta Catholics have equal rights to publicly funded education
Equal Rights?
Don’t you mean special rights to have their schools funded by taxpayers, that no other religion in Canada has?
Equal rights, equal to what? You don’t even pay public school taxes yours are diverted to your own perverted religious school boards? How is that “equal”?
Catholic quacks.
Frankly ALL churches have become gutless when dealing with Church members who don,t follow Biblical precepts. The Catholic Church should have ex communicated the arch abortionist Trudeau. Not be given him a Catholic funeral. The same goes for the pseudo-Catholics with power. In Evangelical or Protestant circles no adherents to Biblical doctrines has lead to moral decay. Once again by not bring miscreants to heel by kicking them out or not giving them communion.
This is the Biblical approach after talking one on one than taken before the Church as a whole. If they don’t repent they are out of fellowship. Christians don’t hurt apostates we shun them.
When people cease to believe or try to destroy your traditions why keep letting them? They can start tier own church. I figure to many Priests, Ministers or Pastors like being around powerful people, more than they love the flock of Christ.
Let alone The Messiah of Israel Joshua.
They are playing to the Devil for the praise of men.
Jews and Catholics love voting for those who least support their views. Better to side with the devil than a Protestant.
In Alberta Catholics have equal rights to publicly funded education larger thanks to the treasonous murderer Riel. I’m amazed how some school boards run essentially secular programs recruiting non-Catholic kids. They have the constitutional right to be different but often water down the message.
A couple of questions for you Revnant Dream: Is the Church to be a home for Saints or a hospital for Sinners? If it is to be a home for Saints who will decide which ‘Biblical’ precept will be followed and to what extent? Then of course what shall be done regarding ‘sinful’ acts that aren’t specifically mentioned in the Bible? A case in point. An angry old fellow went to see his pastor regarding the shameless drift of society. Why it had got so bad out there that women were wearing pants! The old fellow figured the preacher should mention this in a sermon or two. The pastor then asked the old fellow what size pants he wore. The old fellow told him and the pastor disappeared for a bit. He returned shortly with a nice pair of pants and told the old fellow to put them on. The old fellow snorted I’m not going to put them on their women’s pants.
Blame the boomers …
Up until my late teens I was a very devout Roman Catholic. But around that time I started realizing that the sermons being given by the priests didn’t resonate with me. It only occurred to me years later that the messages being espoused were not too different than what would be said by a devout socialist and/or kumbaya devotee.
It all sounds so good at first blush but then you realize that there’s no accountability and self-responsibility required. Many Canadians have woken up to this reality. Judging the dwindling numbers of Catholic parishioners in Canada, the verdict to these left-wing priests seems clear too.
Churchmen have long abandoned the mission of Christ and the Church He founded (read the Bible- Matthew 16:18 and John 21:16) and convinced themselves that the Church’s mission somehow meant trusting a government that would swallow them up. Now, things have gone too far to deny what the government will do to the Church.
Obama may have underestimated the backlash but it is the liberal Catholics who should give their heads a shake.
Joe
This has nothing to do with personnel sin but injecting politics over the Bible, with false beliefs in Churches to change them from a place of repentance with Worship of God by sinners. Which we all are by the way.You ask Joshua for forgiveness he gives freely if your sincere in sorrow. salvation is not by works or the flesh. He died on a cross for this. It was Gods greatest Victory. To turn a house from God to a Political Party where morals become less important than the culture of the World. See United Church or Anglican communion for what happens. The NDP on their knees. We are to be of the World, but not part of it. Jesus said his Kingdom was not of this World. We call people to repentance not social fads. A relation ship with God. Not the PM.
Some of these folks are wolves their to rend God Flock. People who want to purposely destroy. Those we call to repent. If not they can have their own organizations. Christs message. One only has to Sincerly ask Jesus for forgiveness tio get it.
What I don’t want is a house of politics of the World but a real place of learning the ways of the Living God. Not the latest social trends of a rotting dying civilization.
The Bible warns about this so many times I have doubts you have read it, & not seen it yourself?
From money preachers, to false teachers.
Catholics are left-wing and are hypocrites to their very core. Always have been, always will be.
“It only occurred to me years later that the messages being espoused were not too different than what would be said by a devout socialist and/or kumbaya devotee. ”
You nailed it Robert! Well said – hear hear.
TJ- all of them?
TJ, sadly I can’t concur with what you wrote. You’ve just stated that all Catholics in the world are left-wing hypocrites? Sorry, but I know more than a few who are not.
One of the things I like about Rick Santorum, is that he is standing his ground and not apologizing for what he believes. Whether he wins or not, I hope he stays in and gives people the courage to state what they believe unashamedly. The liberals have been using shame as a means of silencing people of faith for too long.
Only those who agree with them were allowed to speak.
“TJ- all of them?”
Enough of them that “all” is suitable qualifier. I don’t think it is an exaggeration.
Funny thing is I never realized that the Catholic religion was so liberal until I was in my thirties. Religion is a bit complex to understand when you are young, and I just assumed that all Christian religions were more or less equally conservative in their ideas.
As for hypocrisy, you only have to look at the nonchalant attitude of the Catholic church toward those Catholics who follow little of the church’s doctrine.
Timely article by Steyn here:
http://www.steynonline.com/4829/the-catholic-state
I know a Roman Catholic who’s conservative. (me)
“All Catholics are left wing, if Obama wins the next term then he will make Catholics perform abortions.”
Neither of these statements is true. Also there is no such thing a left Catholic. There are however Leftist posing as Catholics. If all Cradle Catholics went through the R.C.I.A. they would realize that the Precepts of the Church have not changed. What is constant is the attack the church is under by Satan or Evil or Baal or whatever name you want to use .
Like it or not the tree of Christianity leads back to the Catholic Church and then to Christ. This is why the Church has always suffered scandal but still survives. It is not the scandal that survives but the image of Christ.
The latest attack has been on two fronts Social Justice and extremely disturbed men who desecrated that what is most sacred to satisfy their twisted desire.
Since both of these are not compatible with the Precepts of the Church they will be weeded out just like indulgences.
The leftist will leave the Church and the Church will shut down Hospitals before they do abortions.
Before any trolls attack me save your breath. I was raised Protestant left became an atheist and converted to the Roman Catholic Church right when the evil in Boston was in full melt down, so I have heard it all from trolls in real life.
There is a great evil in the world right now and sooner or later it will affect everyone and we all will have to chose where we stand on a lot of issues.
Peace be with you.
Conservativism(spelled properly),transcends religion. True conservatives easily embrace those of a different faith who share the same values while holding in veiled contempt those of their own faith who do not.
The Catholic Centre Party (BVP) was formed in 1871. Originally the party sought to defend Catholic interests against the predominantly Protestant policies of Otto von Bismarck. However, it later became more concerned with the growth of socialism and communism in Germany.
The BVP gradually grew in size and was able to join coalition governments in Germany. Chancellors supplied by the party included Matthias Erzberger, Wilhelm Marx, Heinrich Brüning and Franz von Papen.
When Adolf Hitler became chancellor in January 1933 he invited the BVP to join his government and Franz von Papen became vice-chancellor. On 23rd March, 1933, all members of the BVP in the Reichstag voted for the Enabling Bill which gave Hitler dictatorial powers.
In June, 1933, Hitler dissolved the BVP and forced its leader, Franz von Papen, to leave the government.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERcentre.htm
Fools, all of them.
“Fear Not” Joannes Paulus (Secundus) Magnus
The Catholic writers who are bestsellers tend to be converts, Newman, Chesterton, and, I have found the late Richard John Neuhaus, Malcolm Muggeridge, Evelyn Waugh even Cardinal Manning, and a hundred others. They have been called called anti-Semites and right wing radicals. Canadians like those found in Catholic Insight, which is well worth its subscription cost. Cradle Catholics, many of them, seem afraid to stick up their heads and give some of the Bishops, holy Hell!
@FORD PERFECT
I can understand where you are coming from as I never knew the lord or of the lord growing up , I herd the call but ignored it as a ute , till finally the holy spirt , was screaming so loud in my ear , and god was doing things to me in my life(and not nice things but he did what he did so I would listen to his call). But I was an atheist till I was 28 ..it was only after I asked Jesus into my heart and let the holy spirit start to work in me that I realized these things. I agree with all you said, I am a Lutheran but the LCC Missouri synod not the gay marrying ,female pastor one ..my congregation is young and growing and yes evangelical and brace yourself conservative.
@revnant dream read what I wrote to perfect ford….I want you to know our church split from the main body of the Lutheran church as they stopped teaching scripture as the perfect god inspired word. So no not all churches maybe some catholic or evangelical Protestant churches but not all many people are starting to see the devil at the pulpit and are leaving.
I see the usual anti-Catholic bigotry is out in force.
Are you guys all meeting down at the Orange Hall later?
Incidentally, it’s simply not possible to be a Leftist Catholic.
A Catholic Leftist, certainly. But that’s something quite different.
nice to see all the oranges asses out in the wind.
Robert’s an idiot Kate, haven’t you figured that out yet?
I was raised Roman Catholic Luke.
OMMAG, blame the Boomers ? Don’t know how old you are but I sure as hell hope you live in the USA and are paying your Social Security taxes so that I can collect them in about 4 years. Thanks in advance.
,
FTA ‘American Catholicism’s Pact With the Devil
Paul A. Rahe’: ” When entitlements stand in for charity and the Social Gospel is preached in place of the Word of God, heaven on earth becomes the end, and Christianity goes by the boards.”
Take that you heathens !
,
Where I come from my job as a preacher is to preach the Gospel. The message is simple: You need to be saved by Jesus. Any political thoughts on my part are simply my opinion. Christianity itself is politically neutral and can be used to support either a leftist or rightist position. However one of the great difficulties is taking the Christian gospel and developing a coherent world view out of it. Well that and keeping my own political view point out of my preaching.
There is a general misunderstanding of the difference between Catholic Theology and Catholic Doctrine. The latter is frequently abused and laced with questionable attributes. I live within a Diocese so divided that the practices of Parishes are easily differentiated. This is magnified by the unchecked spread of the Charismatic movement and the pedantic “New Catholic Mass”.
If this shakes your faith, read this:
1550 This presence of Christ in the minister is not to be understood as if the latter were preserved from all human weaknesses, the spirit of domination, error, even sin. The power of the Holy Spirit does not guarantee all acts of ministers in the same way. While this guarantee extends to the sacraments, so that even the minister’s sin cannot impede the fruit of grace, in many other acts the minister leaves human traces that are not always signs of fidelity to the Gospel and consequently can harm the apostolic fruitfulness of the Church.
If it shakes your conservativism (spelled correctly), God help us all.
It does not make one “orange” to point out failures of the Catholic church. Quite the contrary.
Cradle Catholic, grave conservative.
“Catholics are left-wing and are hypocrites to their very core. Always have been, always will be.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_politics_in_the_United_States#Shift_of_Catholics_away_from_the_Democratic_party
Catholics have been fleeing the Liberal Party in Canada and the Democratic Party in USA for quite some time now; we would be entering the 20th consecutive year of Liberal government were it not for the Catholic vote:
http://www2.macleans.ca/2008/11/24/catholics-flee-liberals-in-droves/
I think Christ was a proto-Marxist in many respects, but its the atheists and “Christian Lite” protestant sects which are most stridently leftist, and that is a fact.
I gotta say, this post was stupid. Obama proposes a typically atheist abortion scheme, the Church freaks out, and somehow we get a post stating that Catholics and big gov are in cahoots? That’s the opposite of the logical conclusion here.
Three of the top 10 countries of origin of immigrants are very Catholic(Phillipines, Mexico, and Colombia); while the protestant sects are dying out, Catholicism is thriving, notwithstanding the misinformation in this thread. Go ahead and bash Catholics all you want, just get your facts straight first.
In Alberta Catholics have equal rights to publicly funded education
Equal Rights?
Don’t you mean special rights to have their schools funded by taxpayers, that no other religion in Canada has?
Equal rights, equal to what? You don’t even pay public school taxes yours are diverted to your own perverted religious school boards? How is that “equal”?
Catholic quacks.