(Trivia – When I first got on the net in 1999, I still had a rotary phone. Finally upgraded to touch-tone about two years later.)
Via Captain Capitalism
(Trivia – When I first got on the net in 1999, I still had a rotary phone. Finally upgraded to touch-tone about two years later.)
Via Captain Capitalism
The guy is half right. Its an astounding era to be sure. That people don’t appreciate it is to be expected. Sure its generational to some degree, but its fundamentally human nature. People who don’t have to struggle become indolent. I noticed this in a job I once had. I chiefly babysat a building all night. I had no stress, no challenges, with a good wage. It got to the point if I was asked to do extra jobs. I got mad with an attitude. All because it was effortless.
Humans need trials for their best traits to show. Other wise they go into idle mode. Which causes mass imbecility & ingratitude. You find the same thing in criminals who just throw their money away because it has no meaning, not being earned.
Its called dissolution for good reason. Don’t worry though we will have plenty of adversity’s ahead.
The greatest Generation is called that because they overcame their illusions & won a long peace. Not because of obvious parenting flaws that developed in the popular culture of that time. Dr. Spock for one, No not the Alien. They won the struggle of the time by rejecting a naive view of their age, than fighting fore the right to survive as free beings. Now Its time for us to wake up to our challenge of the new century. Re-democratizing the world with true Liberties, holding down the Barbarians with the totalitarian horde in our own wigwam. If we don’t the next generation may be called Heroic or Slaves.
JMO
I first saw that clip while sitting on a CHAIR in the SKY (had a crap, watched a movie and I was there). It had me LOLing and I still watch it again every now and then.
“Humans need trials for their best traits to show. Other wise they go into idle mode.”
Yes I think thats a very insightful post. I’m a Gen-Xer but my dad was actually part of that Generation that fought WWII. Although he didn’t actually do battle he lived under German air raids night after night for about four years. That generation of folks learned not to waste anything, save whatever you can and never go into debt. And it was as a consequence of the environment they had to endure. Depression, war and rationing. My generation and those thereafter haven’t had to sacrifice anything, and doesn’t understand real hardship. Perhaps we will shortly.
Speaking of rotary phones, in the house where I grew up, we had a party line. This basically meant you literally had to wait until one of your neighbours got off the phone before you could use it. (and we were DAMN glad to have it!!) 🙂
Incidently, a party line also meant you had to be careful of someone listening in on YOUR conversation.
I’m still deeply appreciative of indoor plumbing. Hot water at the turn of a knob! (I’m dead serious)
Oh yeah. Party lines. Rotary dial phones. My mum saved for hours over a wringer washer, hung the laundry out on the clothesline, brought them in stiff as a board. No snow blowers, lots of shovels though. One car per family (if you were lucky). One TV station from 1956 – 1969 then it doubled to two(black & white). The most jazzy gadget was a reel to reel tape recorder. You stood in long lines at banks to get cash, or deposit, no one talked, only whispers. Never locked a door until 1968. You paid your Doctor and Dentist cash. Your best friends were your dog and your bicycle.
Dishwasher, washing machine, birth control pills!
The big problem I have with the upcoming generation is the fact that they don’t read books.
Phil, I hear you. (And I’ve got Me Generation kids.) I’ve been in classrooms for over 50 years, as a student and teacher, and the difference in the attitude and behaviour of kids today is light years away from what it used to be. The idea of “respect” has, generally, gone the way of the Dodo.
I attribute this to the takeover—sometime in the ’60s—of the anti-God squad. People could have kids—no stigma attached, and paid for by the more stable and productive members of society—at the whim of each individual (bye bye family: hello huge numbers of confused, angry, ENTITLED kids and guilty parents); man became the new god and was then, by governments, endowed with a myriad of rights, that said governments could then take away: no mention of responsibilities, though.
All of this stupidity was encoded in Trudeau’s 1982 Charter and many UN declarations, including the rights of the child. (Hello, disenfranchised parents and teachers—a huge part of our problem). Everyone here should read the multitude of rights endowed on kids: e.g., a right to privacy, a right to religious belief, a right to freedom of association (“I can have any friends I want!”); a right to be respectfully listened to (after you’ve just told the teacher to f*** off?); a right to live in the same country as your parents (bye bye sound immigration policies), etc. This deeply subversive document, like Canada’s own Charter—and the activist judges who have used it to recklessly socially engineer our poor country—are utopian.
When individual rights trump responsibility almost every time, it’s the irresponsible opportunists who benefit. Then standards drop—heck we’re no longer allowed to ENFORCE standards: that would be against some, usually, lowest common denominator person’s rights. Thus starts and continues the downward spiral. Generation X kids are the unfortunate “beneficiaries” of the lowering of standards and, often, like the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water, are unaware of the lethal fallout.
Yes, it’s often not their fault that standards are so low, but many of them milk it. I believe in natural law: I’ve taught multitudes of “lowest common denominator” behaving kids. Given strict guidelines and lots of encouragement, they DO know how to behave: but watch them turn it off the minute they think they can . . . A society that functions on a daily basis on the false and destructive assumption that the lowest common denominator needs more leniency and coddling versus less structure and consequences—sounds a lot like Canada to me—is going to be in very serious trouble. Turn sows’ ears into silk purses? It ain’t gonna happen.)
Rampant consumerism has been part of the fallout. In the economic downturn, if that’s no longer an option, maybe other, less selfish values will reassert themselves. But, without even the IDEA of a self-sacrificing God—who’s been tossed out of our schools to make way for Gaia: now isn’t Mother Nature a benign force?!—who expects the same altruism (what?) of us, I don’t see that a positive change is very likely. (Let’s think about it: when left to themselves, how do toddlers act when there are five of them and only two cookies?)
Kyrie eleison—but only a few of us seem to care about that anymore . . .
Whoops, in paragraph five, make that ” . . . MORE structure and consequences. . .”
Indiana Homez wrote“This bit was linked about two months ago on the tips thread.”
That was probably me (the timing’s right, I was flying to attend my son’s graduation). The clip Kate posted doesn’t show the bit where he talks about his young daughter and the sun exploding. Here’s the full clip (8:24) of Louis CK on Conan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS9TbJpuRuA
This is very tangential to the main point, but for those of you who are “now capable of having seniors moments”, you may take great delight in this video I put together of how a long distance call was made back in 1949: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfjwvGREiJA&feature=channel_page
The audio comes from a Dragnet episode. Way before my time, I found it utterly fascinating!
We still have rotary phone service. It drives the phone company nuts (because they claim it costs them more to service us) and confuses people who go to use our phones (they here the digipulse and think the phone is broken.) But I refuse to change over because it costs more to have touch tone service and it is not necessary. I press the * on my phone and it switches to touch tone mid-call so I can use automated phone systems just like everyone else. Or I can just wait on the line and get served first by a real person!
Had to laugh at the line about people with 0 in their number. Our business phone number has four 9’s in it and my dh wondered if we should ask for another number when it was offered to us 10 years ago. I had to point out that most people won’t notice the delay in calling our number because so few people have rotary service these days!
I can’t believe I just used the wrong ‘here’ in my last post. Geez, what a thread to make that mistake in!
Stephen at 3:40
If it was a horse drawn ice-box and in Winnipeg, that was probably my grandfather. ca 1920.
hijack/off sorry Kate
Phil, heh, what bothers me about the current generation is the HORRIBLE SPELLING! “hear” for “here” and don’t get me starting on “there”, “their” and “they’re” or “your” and “you’re”. (sorry Kate)
Posted by: Erwin Gerrits at December 18, 2008 4:04 PM
==============================================
Erwin
damn good example of your own ignorance
I’m 61, and my spelling and grammar is pi$$ poor
I’ll leave it up to you to figure out what the possible reason could be. I’ll give you a hint, it ain’t a lack of education, nor is it my smarts level!!
This evening, when I phoned a major communications provider, about a total loss of service for my aged parents, I was, once again, reminded of the almost total lack of AFFECT—emotional presence—in those to whom I spoke.
These people seem to be perfectly at ease, parroting the junk they’ve been given by their companies’ script writers. These, “I’ve sold my soul [which soul?] to the company” toadies are the perfect drones our public education system, in a secular—me first— society, has made them.
This non-thinking obeisance to the status quo and a total inability to connect with another’s point of view, either intellectually or emotionally, is on the rise, and lethal to an altruistic—how about an even functioning?—society. Trying to reason with one of these Charlie McCarthys—Charlie is a famous ventriloquist’s dummy—is an exercise in frustration: we both use the English language, but the deeper—emotional, spiritual—meaning, for them, is spinning around somewhere in space.
Kyrie eleison.
I too still have rotary service. Refuse to pay Bell the extra couple of bucks they STILL want for tone, after 45 years (on their digital and tone driven network). Technology has of course blown away the need to convert to tone. I need tone on a phone I push a button, or program a speed dial.
The most delicious irony: I’m surfing SDA at warp speed on the same line that my pulse dial phone is running on. I should get out the old rotary phone, a pencil, and reminisce, just for the hell of it…
As to rude kids, I think we’ve actually passed that phase a bit. The younger kids (oh, 12 and down) seem somewhat more courteous and polite. The older ones have generally grown up into rude adults, but then their parents are too. Their parent’s parents were the last polite generation for a bit.
Lookout, you may be being too hard on the csr/kids. Nowadays their every word is monitored, recorded, reviewed for “quality assurance” There is pain to be felt for deviating from the “script”…
Skip, I’m not unsympathetic to what you say, however, I deal with the younger kids to whom you refer: many are extremely rude and some are little psychopaths.
Re the telephone “responders”: tone of voice can make a huge difference. Most speak in a monotone, quite devoid of real emotion/communication. I don’t think I’m being too hard on them. However, it seems to me that their deficient behaviour would be in the realm of “Forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
Whatever the reason, this kind of behaviour does not build community.
Plus, Skip, “taking too much time” helping customers (you know, those people who give their money to the company in exchange for “service”) is discouraged. It’s become assembly line customer service, no doubt lorded over by some petty bean counter-type counting syllables uttered. Many CSRs read from a prepared script, but sometimes you can find a real gem who will go out of their way to resolve your problem.
What I find really annoying is having to listen to ads trying to sell me something while waiting on hold.
Satori Kato (Japanese scientist) invented the “crappiest generation” in 1901. George Washington introduced it to Americans in 1910, NestlĂ© introduced it to the ROW on April 1, 1938 in Switzerland.
The sordid tale of instant gratification can be found here (wiki warning):
http://tinyurl.com/6lgasf
When I was a boy in East Texas our community didn’t have electricity, a reliable water supply, or indoor plumbing. The nearest phone was in town about 8 miles away, and it didn’t have a dial. Most people didn’t have a job, let alone a car. Doctor’s made house calls and didn’t charge much, but they also couldn’t do much to cure the sick. My granddad had a radio powered by a huge battery. Aside from that luxury, our living style was about like the 1800’s. The poorest people in Texas now are living better than the well-off folks were where I lived during the 1930’s. Most people do not realize how lucky they are to be living now.
I nominate Revnant Dream for the “wisdom of the week” award:
“Humans need trials for their best traits to show. Other wise they go into idle mode. Which causes mass imbecility & ingratitude.”
Posted by: Imethisguy at December 18, 2008 6:37 PM
LOL
“…..and when we got home, our mothers and fathers would slash us with bread knives and dance over our graves singin’ hallelujah….”
Finally, someone has uploaded the Graham Chapman ashes clip to YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox9bcx_LZMs
“Monty Python Live at Aspen was a reunion show featuring all the surviving members of Monty Python. Graham Chapman was also allegedly in attendance as his “ashes” were brought out in an urn. The Pythons looked back at their work and received an award (AFI award). It also featured some memorable moments when…”
We live in the age of instant gratification.
I am not an alarmist or anything but it strikes me that when a society stops using the tools that enforce a societies rules (Politeness, respect, self-sacrifice) that society soon ceases to exist.
This is the true threat to the western world and one that makes it vulnerable to many threats.
I often find myself agreeing in a way with Islam in that they view our culture as corrupt. We are. When I say we I am generalizing and really can anyone argue when the media only portrays the indolent garbage that passes for entertainment today? Just look at common T.V. programs or pop music. Mindless cradle to grave opiate that many people view as important. Seldom do people have a sense of perspective. Step back and imagine if you didn’t have just one luxury like clean running water. We only need look at countries less fortunate than ours to see what that life is like.
All too often people just change the channel.
“People who don’t have to struggle become indolent… Humans need trials for their best traits to show”
Insightful, and very well put, RD! I’m gonna bogart that one, from time to time. Hope you don’t mind 🙂
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
Great rant.
I’m over 80 and get upset if the info I want doesn’t appear on my screen in a nanosecond. There was a time it would have meant a 40 mile round trip, and a full day at the city library.
I’m glad I no longer have a washing machine with wringers and hang the washing out in zero temperatures. Remember the long drawers stiff as a board.
I’m glad I don’t have to get up to change the TV channels.
I can’t think of anything I would go back to, but feel very nostalgic about the kinder, gentler generation: good manners, civility and modesty to name just a few.
Posted by: Phil>
Long past your last comment Phil but I’ll agree with you anyway. The ills of today’s youth can be put squarely on the shoulders of the baby boomers and especially on the hippies in my opinion!
Actually having raised kids to and though University I can attest that they and the years of friends are generally far more responsible, for their health, the environment and such oddities as drinking and driving that my generation took for granted. This of course is probably a bit of a regional exception and not inclusive of the whole country, the inner cities for example.
That said, the growing indifference, the rising crime rates and the glorified gettoization of our cities is extremely troubling to people who remember a better time, when indeed things were simpler but they were also safer and more civil.
The importation of gansta getto subcultures into our mainstream has not at all helped. This again is a hippy “devil may care” philosophy coupled with a boomers desire to make money at all costs (yuppies = old greedy hippies). The mainstream ideologies today about multiculturalism and the “strengths through diversity” show a naive world view and an acceptance of dangerous philosophy’s and ideologies dumped on our doorsteps.
Add some legalized political correctness along with socialist bending of the will, and the passing generation has some misplaced views regarding why things aren’t as good as they were before. Blame the youth. Unfortunately for that cleansing of the soul things didn’t get this way overnight.
Well said Lookout.
Thanks, Jema 54.
Yes, instant gratification: when a critical mass of people over 18—legally considered adults—do not or cannot—because of deficient formation—take on the responsibilities of adulthood, including the proper formation of their own children, the downward spiral I mentioned earlier spins faster.
Root causes? Banning the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Jesus from the public square in the West and the subsequent collapse of the natural family: mother, father, and child(ren).
WARNING: State Banned Ideas Ahead: Have others noted that nearly all the horrendous tragedies to befall the children in our societies have taken place in circumstances where the kids are not living with their own parents, but in some conglomeration of adults, including various unrelated boyfriends or “guardians”? Nature is a severe taskmaster: when we rattle our sabres in its face, we always lose out. The “any self-identified grouping is family” myth is turning around to bite us—especially our unfortunate kids. Are these kids likely to make good citizens? No, because they’ve not been properly socialized: manners, respect for others, perseverance, etc., are sadly lacking from their experience. (Although possessing more resources to hold on, even intact families are surrounded and bombarded by our barbaric 21st century culture, which becomes more pagan by the minute.)
Add to this toxic stew the “Entitlement Game” (Canadian and UN Charters. . . .) and society’s got one, big mess. Our kids—all of them—are being ENCOURAGED to be selfish—and aggressive about being selfish. gellen mentions “the kinder, gentler generation: good manners, civility and modesty to name just a few”. I remember those days. The raw materials to reclaim a “kinder, more responsible” society—stable families, high behavioural expectations, self-control, boundaries, discipline, now all proscribed by the state, which is busy stripping parents and teachers of their legitimate authority—just aren’t there anymore.
I have an image of Western souls and minds being dulled and tarnished, so, even though many have an inkling that their behaviour’s destructive to themselves and others, they simply do not have a vision of the best or the inner resources to get there. Western, state bureaucracies seem to like it this way: they are increasingly responsible for creating much of the mess and then demand more power and money to “fix” it.
Kyrie eleison.
Skip, lookout, PiperPaul:
I won’t name the company since I’m still employed here but about ten years ago I worked with our call centre customer service department (a year or so on the phones, a couple years training/managing new hires) and I can attest to the ‘deadening’ effect idiotic corporate policies have on otherwise reasonable, decent people.
Granted, some are spoiled little SOB’s who think the world owes them and treat customers (and probably everyone else in their lives) like crap, but many become lifeless automatons simply because they are given no incentive (indeed they are disincented) to provide good customer service. Spending extra time fixing major screw-ups (or simply going the extra mile) results in a visit from the boss asking why you’re still on that call, instead of thanking or rewarding them for dealing with a challenging situation, customer, etc. Add in idiotic scripting and extremely hard to attain productivity and sales targets and you get extremely bitter, cynical employees who generally don’t last more than a year or two. It’s idiotic long term strategy, which I’ve explained in great detail many times to upper management.
Anyway, I’m not excusing the rude behaviour, but I’ve seen where a lot of it comes from.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. That said (and libertarianish person that I am aside), I’ve long said that all citizens in free market democracies, regardless of socio-economic status, should be obliged to serve in some sort of ‘customer service’ job for at least two years (along with mandatory military service).
A more polite, disciplined citizenry that knows the value of a dollar and isn’t petrified of guns would provide innumerable benefits to society.
This guy is funny! He’s also right. Here in Hamilton the Canadian Warplane Heritage periodically flies the -only- Lancaster bomber still airworthy in the Western Hemisphere. Huge frickin’ thing, four twelve-cylinder Merlins roaring loud as Hell let out for noon, the most beautiful engine sound in the world. Times four.
This giant piece ‘o history flies over the supermarket at maybe 800 feet, VRRRRRROOOOM! I’m pointing and yelling “WOOHOO! YEAH BABY!!!!”… and not one person looks up. Not one. Happens every single time.
Somebody fill me in here. Am I crazy, or is everybody else in this town an oblivious dork?
Matt Hillier, many thanks for that enlightening post. That the powers that be are good at churning out automatons is no surprise. It’s the same in education, my field: the best are hounded and harassed. They get out if they can, leaving the field to the “zombies” or merely defeated.
This society—for the reasons I’ve posited above—is churning out people with numbed minds and spirits, who, in turn, numb the minds and spirits of those over whom they have power. The downward spiral . . .
This is the season of Advent, when Christians await, with great anticipation, the coming of the light. What a promise! But, in Canada today, Christians are being actively persecuted by the state. Talk about moral inversions.
Western societies are suffering from a spiritual malaise and the very path to sanity and health—reclaiming our Judeo-Christian roots, at a deep level—are not allowed by the state, which has embraced an enemy culture: “multiculturalism” to which no sane, integrated person can have any allegiance. Thus, our society is, literally, DISintegrating. The widespread listlessness we see does not provide for us either the impetus or strength to fight back. T.S. Eliot, poet and Christian prophet: “This is the way the world ends: Not with a bang but a whimper.”
Kyrie eleison.
Phantom, I think I’ve just described the “zombies” you describe: their personalities appear to be minus affect—emotional presence.
I wish I could be with you when one of those Lancasters—“L for Lanky”!—flew over. I’d be jumping up and down and cheering with you!!
I’ve got a “hot” personality in a cool age: a difficult fit. I think we’re sinking into a spiritual ice age: the AGW scam is part and parcel of this. Ironic . . .
“I’ve got a “hot” personality in a cool age: a difficult fit. I think we’re sinking into a spiritual ice age: the AGW scam is part and parcel of this. Ironic . . .”
Lol…nicely done lookout. And I agree with your well stated assessments and reasoning.
Thanks, Matt.
I have nearly driven off the road in the presence of that Lancaster, trying to get a better look and listen. No sound like it.
To have heard a hundred of them at once fly over…glorious if you were on the giving end, not so much otherwise.
I was nearly off the road one time in Arizona, I got overflown by a Heinkel He 111.
Managed to pull over and bailed out to hear it. Two Merlins. I was like WTF?!! Turned out is was General Franco’s personal ride. They have it at the Confederate Air Force, I went there and climbed all over it.
Lookout, take a drive to Hamilton Airport, go to where the silver jet fighter is standing on its tail. That’s Canadian Warplane Heritage, you can go inside and drool on the airplanes all day long. Awesome.
CWH is the -only- place I donate money, because they fly that huge old bird over my house. Worth every penny.
nicola. yes people don’t read and those who do seem to lack the ability to understand what they have read.
I dont think it really changes
http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html
We used to sleep on rusted springs, for years, because we couldn’t afford a new mattress.
Posted by: The Phantom at December 19, 2008 10:10 AM
Phantom, not everyone’s a dork*. I’m in Oakville, and I make a beeline for the door whenever I hear the Lanc on flyby. The first time I saw it a few years ago I stood frozen in the middle of a shopping mall parking lot*, and it was only the impatient HONK of a driver that got me moving. I just turned to him & pointed upwards, and shrugged, “What ELSE would I be doing but watching that plane, man?”*. He wasn’t impressed.
Too bad for him.
I usually grab my sons 11/13 to have a look (the 3yr old is still a bit young to figure it out), and I get a bit of interest from them. Heh, then again, I’m the local helicopter nut, and have been known to bomburst from hosting a dinner to the backyard whenever a chopper flies by at low altitude*… LOL
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
* maybe on 2nd thought, I’M the dork haha
Thank God, mhb. I thought I was the only one who did that.
We are not dorks. The ones who don’t look up, THEY are dorks. ~:D
mhb,Phantom.You guys have to pay now!!! I still yearn to hear the sound of 4 Argus engines pounding away on take-oof!!! You want pure,unadulterated piston power! And it was check the gas,fill the oil on landing…heh
With all the “I want it all and I want it now” going on maybe we need another depression for people to really appreciate the little things in life, the things that really matter. Hearth and home, warmth, food on the table, healthy children and happy living. A feeling of accomplishment because you’ve made a place in the world where you and yours are comfortable and safe.
Kelly: I don’t know if I want a depression (could I make it?), but “I want it all and I want it now” attitude reminds me of that commercial with the perfect suburban family who wanted to watch movies, who wanted to talk with relatives in Vancouver and Moncton, who wanted a faster internet connection (WAY faster!!), and who wanted it ALL, for LESS!
G*d damn, they were annoying, not because they were exceptional, but because they were the presented as the NORM!
BTW, when is the Lancaster scheduled to fly again?
Was watching a documentary on MSNBC (I know, I know) about runaway kids. Street people. They were texting each other on cell phones.
Far cry from the Hobos of the 30s.