Evening Update – via a reliable source:
This story started with a Canadian Press story that obviously did not understand House of Commons procedure. The Ways and Means Motion being voted on Monday is for tax measures only. The elimination of political subsidies will be in the enabling legislation for the fiscal update as planned, it will be a confidence vote.
With the Liberals held hostage, Jack Layton has reportedly laid out his list of demands – including both the finance and environment portfolios.
I told you this’d be worth it!
Bourque seems to be on top of the other news headlines, so I’l redirect you there…
Original post continues below:
Opposition hold coalition talks, Grits may dump Dion
One option under consideration is to suspend plans for the May 2 leadership convention and just go straight to the cage match…. developing….
Updates:
A CBC poll goes horribly wrong.
Breaking – after calls to the Saskatchewan “a leadership convention date has yet to be decided” Liberals produced a “this number is no longer in service” message, opposition parties are reported to be seeking advice on coalition-forming from Jean “when I’m finished with Paul Martin he won’t get elected dog-catcher” Chretien.
ROTFLMAO Update… via John Gormley Live. … With the opposition parties on record vowing to take down the government over the “lack of a stimulus package” in the economic update … Harper The Merciful has announced he’ll remove the party funding portion and separate it from the confidence vote… developing…
To the Liberal/NDP supporters whining that the CPC is exploiting the opposition’s financial vulnerability to play “partisan games”, I offer this advice – get out your checkbooks and shut the hell up.
This is one of the busiest threads I’ve ever seen on SDA. I can’t possibly read all the previous entries before I forget what I want to say.
This whole situation is stupendous. I can’t say whether good or bad; but certainly monumentous. It will go down in history.
I do not know how things will transpire.
I hope the Liberal coalition with the Bloc (notice in press reports, the Bloc is rarely mentionmed. It’s all talk of a liberal-NDP coalition – can’t form a government with that) is rejected by teh GG on the grounds that (1) it wasn’t the subject of the previous election 2 months ago and (2) no one openly demanding the destruction of Canada can be part of Canadian government (see laws of treason).
Write to you local newspapers.
This is one of the busiest threads I’ve ever seen on SDA. I can’t possibly read all the previous entries before I forget what I want to say.
This whole situation is stupendous. I can’t say whether good or bad; but certainly monumentous. It will go down in history.
I do not know how things will transpire.
I hope the Liberal coalition with the Bloc (notice in press reports, the Bloc is rarely mentionmed. It’s all talk of a liberal-NDP coalition – can’t form a government with that) is rejected by teh GG on the grounds that (1) it wasn’t the subject of the previous election 2 months ago and (2) no one openly demanding the destruction of Canada can be part of Canadian government (see laws of treason).
Write to you local newspapers. Write the GG.
“With Kate’s permission perhaps it is time to speculate on a name for the coalition.”
2 choices:
(1) Four Weddings and A Funeral
(2) UAE – United Arab Emirates
Experts doubtful a coalition gov’t would work
Updated Fri. Nov. 28 2008 8:55 PM ET
By Parminder Parmar, CTV.ca News
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20081128/coalitions_past_081128/20081128?hub=TopStories
Barry Cooper, a political science professor at the University of Calgary, … says the NDP and Liberals are just too far apart on issues for their MPs to agree on a working alignment.
Cooper says it doesn’t matter that party elders are behind the coalition talk. …
“The Governor General has to be convinced that this coalition is real,” he said, noting the party’s MPs won’t necessarily listen to Broadbent or Chretien. …
… “If she thinks it’s [a Liberal/NDP/Bloc coalition] doable, she is in deep doo doo.”
Liberal + NDP + Bloc = Green Shift
How about the Three Stooges!
The Three Amigos starring Steve Martin, Chevy Chase and Martin Short. Steve looks like Duceppe.
We also need a movie with a dog in it, preferably a metrosexual one to play the role of Kyoto. On second though, maybe a cat will do.
Garfield?
This whole scenario is getting crazier by the minute, but I’ll speculate that Dion may be orchestrating this because it’s essentially his last and only chance to be Prime Minister of Canada.
As we saw during the election, he’s not averse to the idea of forming alliances with other parties.
I’m gathering that Iggy isn’t too keen on the idea, since he believes he has a better chance to form a government when he is the leader. Look for him to dump cold water on this move in the coming days.
I still think it’s a Hail Mary move no matter who’s in charge, with little chance of actual success. If the opposition parties do actually press on with this tactic, Harper’s best bet is to ask the GG to call an election.
Essentially, Harper must tell the Liberals that if they insist on bringing down the government, they should be forced to go to the voters and try to make a case that firstly, there’s an advantage to having a coalition with the NDP and the Bloc, and secondly that the coalition has a chance of surviving more than a few months. I doubt that they voting public will be too keen on endorsing that, and I think that for that reason the Liberals will have a number of “sick” MPs on December 8th.
Tom @7:45 AM, but the GG cannot possibly allow a separaist [party, wanting the destruction of Canada, into the Canadian government.
Watched the National tonight and noticed a glaring underplay of the BQ factor in all this and how separatists would be in government under such a scenario. “Informally” or “on an issue by issue basis” as the CBC is trying its best to spin it is just semantics. The BQ would de facto be in government since the LPC and NDP don’t have enough seats combined to form a gov’t. Harper may not have a majority, but he doesn’t need the votes of the BQ to pass legislation. It can be done with any combination of the other two parties. Under the coalition scenario, if every Opposition Conservative MP voted against “government” legislation the Liberals would need the support of the BQ, making the separatists an “integral” part of the coalition government, even as the CBC attempts to minimize that party’s role in their slanted reporting. “Liberal-NDP coalition”… “Liberal-NDP coalition” we hear in MSM, over and over again and again, in spite of the BQ having to join too for it to work.
And funny that the term “separatist” wasn’t used on the National because when Martin accused the Conservatives of being in bed with separatists to topple his government, it got plenty of play by CBC. Harper accuses the Liberals now of the same, but his comments in that regard are expunged from tonight’s reporting on The National. And it was quite a lengthy series of reports devoted exclusively to this “crisis”… 9 minutes worth in fact. 9 minutes of reporting and nowhere are the Bloc mentioned as separatists by either the PM himself or any reporter and the pundits, analyst, etc., that were interviewed. Such a pejorative descriptor such as “separatists” need only be used when the Conservatives work with the BQ, I guess. Besides, if you’re the CBC you don’t want to scare Canadians by telling them separatists will be in government. And not the ones that were in the Mulroney government the CBC always likes to criticize… you know, those who at least ran under a PC federalist banner? No, these are a crop who are CURRENTLY separatists in parliament, in a separatist party whose sole mandate they acknowledge is to break up the country. THESE are the ones given a free pass by the CBC this go around. Anything it takes to restore the “natural governing party” to power, I guess.
The liberals are so desperate,and desperate times call for desperate measures,resurrecting Chretien is a fine example. They know that if their public funding is pulled they will cease to exist as a legitimate option with-in a year or two. Actually I doubt if they will make it far past their ‘leadership’ convention. They are a cornered rat,just not as dangerous. The greens will be drooping ,the Bloc is french toast,and the NDP will be dipping for change in fountains, their base will feed their families before they feed Layton’s. If the ‘coalition of the wilting’ actually pulls it off they will last until the first opposition day. Then the conservatives will table a confidence motion that calls for the public funding to be pulled. They will have to vote for their lifeline,or it lights out, and I don’t think Canadians will stand for this blatant greed. This is the beginning of the end for this edition of the left side of Canadian politics. They will pop up again,as they should,but it will be a decade or more before they will be a force.
The NDP are going to hop into bed with the separatists and Chretien, Dion, and the Adscam liberals?
Bad move Jack.
From the Toronto Star comments:
“Why is it when Obama was successful at grassroots fundraising it was good but when the Conservatives do it it is bad? Why can’t the Liberals do what Obama did?”
Bring it on, Mr. Harper. Don’t back down. Canada does not need these desperate clowns heading anything, let alone a coalition governement: It would be a coalition of whining, entitled brats intent only on further feathering their nests at the usual expense of the rest of us plebs.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
If PMSH goes down, I want him to go down fighting all the way.
Today on the news bloody Broadbent in his fur hat looked just like a puffed up Russian Commie –concerned, of course, only for the working class, never mind that the working class is being asked to heavily subsidize Canadian political parties whether or not they vote for them or agree with them.
Like Ignatieff and Rae, Broadbent attended tony Trinity College. ‘Nothing wrong with that, it’s a good college, BUT these guys with silver spoons in their mouths and plenty of money in the bank are just a tad out of touch with the “working class” they keep saying they care about.
I’m sick of their posturing and lies. Totally sick of them.
I think the “name the coalition” needs a thread of its own.
Then, after a few good suggestions, we narrow it down to about 4-5.
Then do the official “SDA name the coalition” poll.
Posted by: morgan at November 28, 2008 11:10 PM –
“THESE are the ones given a free pass by the CBC this go around. Anything it takes to restore the “natural governing party” to power, I guess.”
The Media bias is palpable in this story.
Duceppe’s Separatists governing in Canada in an unholy leftist alliance.
Where is MSM outrage?
They are as corrupt as the proposed trough sucking coalition.
“Trinity College”
Andrew Coyne and Adrienne Clarkson went there as well. And Michael Ignatieff.
Just what Canada needs to fight the global slow down is Dion as Prime Minister and able to tell Canadians what he will do when asked.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=p5hoSfvIFFE
How about we just call them the Axis of Evil.
Where’s the mention of the Green Shift in all this? Didn’t Dion say if he was elected PM he would implement the Green Shift right away in spite of the downturn in the economy? Didn’t he say the Green Shift was good for the economy, that a struggling economy needs the Green Shift, that the Green Shift would create jobs? If he truly believes this, will he tell Canadians up until Dec. 8 to expect it if the junta he’ll lead seizes power? Was he lying to Canadians? Or is he against creating jobs? Which is it?
“Broadbent in his fur hat”
That means Ed was wearing a Small Dead Animal on his head.
Put somethin’ in the tip jar, Ed.
How about we just call them the Axis of Evil.
…and the axis of the terminally stupid.
Idiot savants they are.
Ed Broadbent…he’s like a turd that won’t flush! Cretin too…why isn’t he in prison?
If anyone thinks the West will just take this suffocating Junta sitting down, their dreaming in a cloud of opium.
The West will want out. How will Dion deal with another North West rebellion, or even greater separatist movement in the West?
The East has no idea how enraged people here would be, no idea at all. It would be the unpardonable Political sin. We actually believe in Democracy. Putting Federal Separatists in power is folly. There only goal is this Countries break up. This is the greediest, most disgraceful thing I have lived to see. Canada is no more a Democracy. Can BC grow bananas?
Harper will just eat them up if this goes ahead. I say call another election on this issue post haste. No compromise.
The alternative could get ugly & no sane person wants that. The other three parties clear betrayal of democratic principles with a cushy money grab, by elitists in a phony cause. Will erupt into a firestorm. Whets next’s machine guns in the street? With the NDP anything is possible.
Just look at the despicable characters behind the plot. Its inconsolable. The evil legion of hosts regurgitating their rot from liberal past crooks are that are back again to rob us of even our right to elect. The Liberals are demented with power worshiping insatiability. Money with privilege have become their god. The people they swore to protect there rights have become Marks to these thieves.
It may be legal to do this, but the spirit of Liberty has been lost to the Entitlements of would be aristocratic tyrants.
“…the Harper government has been insensitive to the angst, pain and fear of the Canadian people…”
As opposed to the, uh, loyal opposition parties, who want to INSTILL “angst, pain and fear” into the Canadian people until they get their way. Petulant, shameful, hypocritical childish behaviour.
Is there no possibility whatsoever that Bob Rae supporters and Michael Ignatieff supporters could stage a mini-coup of their own and vote with the CPC, keeping the government afloat and further discrediting Stephane Dion, a.k.a. the Failure?
More.
In America, if you want to see the mindset of the Radical Left you go to the DailyKos.com. In Canada you just go to the CBC News website. Read the comments on what’s going on in Ottawa these days. Here’s the comment that I just left there:
I am deeply ashamed by so many of the comments I’m reading on here.
Let’s remove the spin and ascertain two facts remain crystal clear:
1. The ONLY reason why the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc Quebecois are considering this takedown of a democratically elected government is because the taxpayer-funded $1.95 per vote going towards ALL parties may be eliminated.
2. If this occurs, it may very well be constitutionally legal but is nothing other than a Coup d’Etat.
Don’t insult us by pretending anything else.
The fact that so many of you are so willing to, not just to let this happen, but to actually encourage it, is a clear sign of the deeply undemocratic mindset so pervasive in Canada these days, especially those on the Radical Left side of the political spectrum.
The Conservatives were elected as a minority government just 45 days ago. Back then many of you were saying, “I’m glad that Harper only got a minority. It’s what Canadians want. They’ll all be forced to work together.”
Now, at the very first chance, your politicians in Ottawa are saying, “Ahhh, we didn’t really mean that. We’re going to seize power instead.” And you all are cheering them on.
What absolute hypocrisy! Ashamed you should be, but too arrogant to realize it in fact you are. You must truly all be mad to think that the best course of action for Canada is to have Stephane “Defeated” Dion as its figurehead PM but the real reins of power clearly in the hands of the Bloc Quebecois.
Just remember that for every action there is a reaction. If you think the people of Western Canada are going to see their duly elected government thrown out of office, you truly are dreaming. Should this occur, I expect permanent negative repercussions to affect Canada for the next 50 years … and that is if Canada even remains together should this disaster unfold as you’re hoping.
Revnant Dream wrote: “Will erupt into a firestorm. Whets next’s machine guns in the street? With the NDP anything is possible.”
Perhaps the opposition can turn in their limousines for Somali-style Toyota landrunners complete with a gun mount in the back
Diplibloc
Re the “missing stimulus package”. If we look to the south, we see that they are throwing hundreds of billions of dollars (maybe trillions) at the problems down there. And it has not helped. I’m very glad Harper has been much more prudent, considering we are nowhere near the dire straits of the U.S.
If this Coalition of the Entitled comes to pass, in a year’s time we’ll be broke as hell, be paying a carbon tax, higher GST, have no military, free childcare/homecare/welfare for any who want it, and a French citizen for PM. Yippeee. And the rest of the world will laugh at what we squandered.
Free Western Canada!
Hi All.
Hi Kate.
First time posting. Love the site. Hope I make you proud…
This stuff here is heroine to a political junkie like me. And my suggestion for this creepy collection of goons…
The Coalition of the Swilling.
Thanks,
Sam
Though I hope SH has things well in hand I worry he does not.
While on the face of it letting the opposition run things for a while looks to be a way of showing Canadians that these guys are as inept at running the country as the penguins in Madagascar 2 were at flying an airplane, I am concerned that they may fluke their way into a successful coalition that not only helps repair their current situation(s) but also allows them to do serious long-term damage to things should the Conservatives manage to get back into power.
I’m thinking here about the ability for them to reload the Senate with 18 new anti-conservative appointees, creating an even worse legislative log-jam than we have now.
Second:
Stephen Harper’s opponents have always made the mistake of underestimating his political abilities (same goes for GWB). We would be wise to not underestimate the abilities of Jean Chretien and his minions to manange this coalition should they get a hold of the reins of power. Granted, Jean Chretien’s reputation for genius is largely supported by evidence of how well he did during a time when his traditional conservative opponents lay in pieces on the floor. But do we really want to give this guy any chance to get his hands on the tiller again?
I and a lot of other conservatives hope that Stephen has a end game mapped out – that he so far is seeing everything going as (he) planned.
….
And is it possible that the opposition was planning to bring down the government in any event? I have commented in the past that many Liberals consider the removal of Joe Clark as one of their greatest acheivements and they would love nothing better than to do the same to Stephen Harper. Just wondering if SH did what he did as a pre-emptive strike…
@ EBD at November 28, 2008 1:49 AM
No, they’ll have to wear it within days. Even the Liberals and NDP combined don’t have enough seats to defend against an immediate no-confidence vote brought by the 143 Tories.
So, an election would happen no matter what.
The whole thing is so simple really (but not to Stéphane “I Am A Retard” Dion): if a party cannot sell its ideas to members and supporters, and thus generate revenue from donations, as Barack Obama has done so expertly, it loses its legitimacy and does not deserve to be kept alive at the expense of taxpayers.
Jeffrey Simpson isn’t so bright either, because in a total lapse of judgment and suspension of logic, he argues that the subsidy is an important incentive for Canadians to donate to political parties. Quite the opposite is true: when voters know that their tax dollars are used to prop up (f)ailing parties, they will feel no obligation whatsoever to send their hard-earned cash to them.
It is at times like this that people have a chance to see the real nature and character of their politicians. When the Liberals are willing to thrust the country into a political and economic crisis of immense instability – and this would trigger not only a recession, but a full-blown depression in Canada – over a lousy $1.95, voters realize that there is a reason why the Liberals have been unable to raise funds to stay afloat: because they are a joke and really have no place in the political landscape any longer.
BTW;
I read somewhere that doer in MB is considering scrapping goverment grants to parties too.
Don’t presume to speak for “Canadians”.
Posted by: Kate at November 28, 2008 1:07 PM
—
Sure thing. Just as soon as you stop claiming to speak for the people of Saskatchewan. Or wait, that’s no longer the tag line on your blog. Did it have something to do with the Sask party throwing you under the bus?
Gord Tulk: “I read somewhere that doer in MB is considering scrapping goverment grants to parties too.”
No rumour — it’s true. The Cons here are roasting him over it and seem to be gaining a little traction.
“The province’s opposition leader wants Manitobans to decide where money from a political subsidy his party has declined should be spent.
Hugh McFadyen has renewed his call this week for Premier Gary Doer to scrap a new law that gives political parties $1.25 per vote, similar to what is happening in Ottawa.
McFadyen, who has said he won’t accept the 800 thousand dollars the law will provide for his party, believes a public contest should be held on how to spend the funds.”
http://www.cjob.com/News/Local/Story.aspx?ID=1042878
But [Steve@November 29, 2008 12:47 AM], Saskatchewan DID elect a conservative government, didn’t it.
So the voters spoke and apparently agreed with Kate, tossing out the Lefties.
I realize how difficult this may be to understand for you, this concept of those smelly, icky voters making decisions you don’t like. How dare they! It’s offensive!
It might be the scotch talking but IanV gets my vote.
Brilliant!
Diplibloc.
Revnant Dream at midnight. I agree. The conservatives have a huge power base in Ab. and Sask. If we lose the man we voted for to a sleazy band of highwaymen, there will be many that will be very upset,to put it mildly.The western seperation movement will not be a posture to obtain favours from the ROC like the Quebec gang. We are the money.The ‘coalition of the wilting’can paste together a composite of Obama,Mother Theresa,and Gretzky,and it will not matter.We will have been bent over for the last time. I don’t think that the opposition have thought their ploy out all that well.
If these a$$#oles get their coalition in can they load the senate vacancies with their puppets?????
Herb said: “I’m curious, with all the talk of the libs and ndp’ers and bloc to be destroyed, do you all want’one’ party in this country?”
Oh please, Herb. Are you actually suggesting that the only way the other parties can survive is with monies grabbed from other Canadians? If they can’t convince their own supporters to pony up, what does that say about their positions or platform.
If the Conservatives can do so, why not any other party? I’m not interested in ‘destroying’ another political party, but why should I be forced into supporting them against my wishes?
Manny wrote: “Yet it is democratic to make the taxpayer support freeloading, conservative voting farmers.”
Manny, shame on you. You have no evidence regarding how any given farmer votes. Besides, Saskatchewan probably has more farmers than just about anywhere, and it went NDP for how many decades? So much for your theory.
Manny also wrote: Food is suppose to be free? “No, but education is, orvict.”
What a freaking fool. Yeah, education is free, just like health care, Manny. I just checked and noted that ‘school tax’ was 62% of my property tax bill. When I read your postings I realize that even if education were free, you still didn’t get your moneys worth.
Wallyj. BC voted heartily for PM Harper’s Conservatives. My riding went Conservative two months ago and my MP is in cabinet. I can guarantee that if Dion or some other Liberal is forced on us as Prime Minister when Canada elected the Conservatives, many here in the West WILL talk separation. It will be THE hottest topic on online radio shows. I find it ludicrous that the ones really pushing this are not even in Parliament. Jean Chretien and Ed Broadbent.
As the seizure of power by the Separatist/Liberal/Communist alliance continues, and Dion, Layton, and their ideological comrade Duceppe go into hiding, who slithers out of the bile but the two cockroaches of nightmares past, king criminal Chretien and the commie overlord Broadbent. That explains a lot about the stench coming out of the cess pool back in Ottawa. Two old dictators brought back to explain the complexities and machinations of running a dictatorship…nice. I heard Bob Fife yapping about the coup currently under way, and when asked if the coup will succeed he said “We’re not there yet” We ?
First,I want to congratulate Stephen Harper for offering to give up $10 million tax dollars in these tough economic times.
Second, shame on those in the media who consider 30 million tax dollars as ‘small potatoes’ not worthy of a fiscal plan. Give me another nine of these small sacrifices and we have saved $300 million. Give me another twenty modest reductions, well, see it adds up.
Third, if you are you one of those who thinks that we could never find thirty $30 million reductions in all of Ottawa, Then you probably need to dig out a dictionary and look up the word ‘sacrifice’. Because we will all have to make them and very few of them will be painless.
Finally, when you are unable to make your own sacrifices, don’t expect that anyone else is willing either. Of all the current leadership wannabes, I would trust that Bob Rae appreciates that concept better than any.
As the Christmas Season approaches, I would suggest that all of our political mentors remind themselves of that old adage “’tis better to give than receive”.
Ted your right.
I had hoped Mr. Harper would LEAD this country into these tough times.
Instead he is playing games. His lack of respect for the people and their opinions shows
he is lacking in character. He called an election against his own law in the hope he would have
a majority government. This looks a whole bunch like the old saying about power corrupting.
Here is hoping that responsible individuals take control of our government and protect our democracy against
these dark economic times.
Went down and talked to my MP,Linda Dalton,NDP,and she said she would let her leader decide what to do. Ah,Linda.Just another teat sucking,socialist scum! You can’t make up your own mind??
Here is hoping that responsible take control of our government and protect our democracy against
these dark economic times.
That may well be the funniest sentence ever written.
Let me give you a hint. When “responsible individuals” “take control” of “democracy” they tend not to give it back and democracy dies. Who are these responsible people? Dion? Layton? They won less seats than Harper but what does that matter? This is about being responsible and protecting democracy!
Democracy does NOT need protecting against “dark economic times.” It DOES need protection against those that would use them as cover for naked ambition
I’ve just made another donation in support of Steven Harper and let my MP know that I’m in agreement with removing this ridiculous subsidy. When times are tough, the “little” unnecessary things should be the first to go! The opposing parties are only worried about their empty pockets and how they’ll soon be even emptier. Their concern about our economy has nothing to do with this proposed coalition. I’d like to think Canadians are smart enough to see though that.
Duhwhite, my poor misguided creature, this attempted coup will not come to be. In spite of the support of the propagandists, of cbc and ctv, there is no future in this venture. Socialist dogma will not seize power. Sanity will prevail. It surely is fascinating how the totalitarians in this country are trying to justify treason. That Cretin and Bentbroadly are being idolized by the media as statesman with a plan is tragically hysterical. I only wish Mr. Flaherty would also dispose of the pensions that taxpayers have to gift these two treasonist members of the bright red nose, big floppy shoe guild.