“Trapped” in the spiral of easy debt…
Callow said she went to easyhome because it requires no credit. She could also get the furniture the next day. “They’ve got nice furniture but boy, do they charge,” says Callow, who is on disability and lives in subsidized housing in North York. “It’s not fair. I’m on a fixed income.”
The phenomenon of experiencing negative outcomes due to spending beyond one’s means is a new one. Luckily, we have experts to help walk us through the statistics;
The Vanier Institute for the Family released a study last year that examined the assets and debts of Canada’s 15 million households. They found that, based on Statistics Canada figures, the poorest 20 per cent, approximately 2.6 million households, had a net worth of $34 billion but their debts totalled $40 billion.
“This is the only group where the debt is bigger than the (net) value of the assets,” says Roger Sauvé, a consultant who prepared the report.
Oddly enough!
I’ve always believed that poverty is very often the cause, not the result of, a lack of money.
As Vitruvius points out, the lady has not a money problem, but a spiritual one.
Yeah Kate, let’s put “these people” these poor people on cattle cars and ship ’em off to camps somewhere, learn ’em the meaning of money so they can handle money like you and your friends in the “real” world.
grrrr!
Listen up you twisted little man, I was the working poor – singer mother, mainly due to many surgeries, nonetheless I never took welfare, but I did ask for subsidized housing, esh, What a disaster!
I would be woken up frequently at midnight to 4:am with my partying neighbours… while I was trying to sleep so I could work the next day.
One day I happened to go to my home during my work day, all the neighbours who didn’t work were on their front lawns drinking beer and smoking pot! And the on site maintanence man was an abusive drunk, cursing his wife at night when he was drunk… calling her a ‘c*nt’ etc…(try explaining that to your nine year old daughter who never heard that word before)
They (the non working ones) all had newer furniture, vehicles, allowances etc. Many times the government would pay for furnishing a whole home for a non-working mom, only to see the whole place trashed within a few months. (I could ONLY afford second hand – for just about everything – including an really old console tv, but it worked for four years! Even had to get my office clothes second hand!)
No prescription – medication allowances for either of us either. Nor dental or eyeglasses…
It is exactly the ‘delayed gratification’ as mentioned above, if you don’t earn it you can’t appreciate it’s value.
And the johns of the world would like us to help “his poor friend” who never bothered to get a paying job to afford his housing but you think we should foot the bill?
Nuts to that! Or hey john my new glasses are going to cost $1,000.00 (again) I have very poor eyesight…
YOU gonna help me?
Come on John cough it up!
My daughter will go without something as I have to have this visual aid…as I can’t even get around my home without them.
(* 8 and 9 on that RX scale)
the poorest 20 per cent, approximately 2.6 million households, had a net worth of $34 billion but their debts totalled $40 billion.
“This is the only group where the debt is bigger than the (net) value of the assets,” says Roger Sauvé, a consultant who prepared the report.
Somebody doesn’t understand the meaning of the phrase “net worth”. Net worth is, uh, “net” – of liabilities. It’s assets minus liabilities (or at least it was back when I was studying accounting). More likely, the group has assets of $34 billion and debts of $40 billion, for a net worth of negative $6 million.
On the subject of many of the previous comments, I have no television, no cell phone, a DVD player only because a CD/ROM drive in a PC is ipso facto a DVD player, no iPod, and no MP3 player. I drive a ten-year-old Corolla. I’m definitely NOT poor. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that the fact that I’m not poor is, at least in part, a result of the fact that I haven’t felt the need to spend money on things like a television or a new BMW.
Kate, Just a comment on the Vanier report. “Net worth” is the value calculated by comparing assets to liabilities (debts). If low income families have a net worth of $34 Billion, that is after $40 Billion in debt has been deducted, not before.
BTW, I work in credit/Accounts Receivable
There is no reason to ship them anywhere for re-education. All one has to do is simply leave them alone and the marketplace will give them all the education that they need. Cutting these folks off from the law of cause and effect just will not work.
Show some sympathy people. I still remember the day I suffered a home invasion at the hands of a 55″ plasma screen — knocked on the door, forced its way in and wouldn’t leave ’till I bought it.
Seriously, I actually watch a 26″. When I was a rural GP, I made several house calls to people on disability who were living in far bigger homes, in far nicer areas, with far better furnishings and appliances than I had. They’d moan incessantly about the costs of prescriptions while reaching for the pack of cigarettes. Likewise several retirees who complained that they actually had to pay for their prescription medicines which they were picking up before they climbed into their Winnebago to head down to their second home in Arizona for the winter. The word “priorities” seems to have been written out of many people’s lexicons.
Also recall reading an article from Halifax a year or more ago, about this young mother who, while not working was attending a government education program on a part time basis. She went and got a dog from the local SPCA, then a year later the dog developed sever gum problems requiring the removal of it’s teeth!
So she was in conflict with SPCA about paying for the care of HER dog.
She stated: “They should have known my financial situation BEFORE they gave me the dog.”
Classic example of what this post is about IMHO.
This story is suppose to make us feel sorry for the family?
They made some stupid choices, and now have to live with them.
If this family is the face of poverty in Canada, then Canada is doing well. All they need is a grade 5 math course, and some common sense and they will be well on their way to recovery.
These folks. Those folks. Kate’s game: identify a group. Them. Those Muslims. Those Leftards. Those people, if they lived in the “real world” (translation: if they agreed with my world view…) they would understand. Folks in the real world just want the right to hunt small animals. Particularly colourful ones. Have a nice day Kate.
John Daly and Johnny Maudlin are the same person. Its like he might have some personality disorder, thinking he’s some super lefty out to save the world, but he keeps forgetting who he is.
John, did you lose your pills? should we call someone for help for you? Reply as John Daly if you understand.
Mr. Maudling, you forgot “identify a failed culture”, and “identify a corrupt regime”, and “identify charlatans”, “identify fraud artists”, “identify incompetent judiciaries”, “identify moral bankrupts”, etc.
Kate did not mention your group johnny girl,asshats.
“colourful” heh, you bet!
My colour, obvious olive skinned. So’s the kid and she’s beautiful! Has been pointed out to me my whole life.
All my sibs are darker though if that helps the johnny’s of the world.
Even nurses would ask, do you tan?
LOL like I could afford THAT luxury…gees.
Oh sure, even my language is considered ‘colourful’ at times and when appropriate.
Mainly towards the ones who throw sharp sticks down at this small animal.
The same person?What a pathetic sock puppet.
Johnny, I know it is hard for you being a leftard and all, but try to understand. People go to work, to buy goods and services. They get so much for a paycheque each week. A sensible person tends to take care of their physical needs first, such as food and shelter. The fluffy stuff, like a large screen tv, a vacation in Paris, a case of beer and good herb, are secondary. They are not needs, but wants. You can live without them. I know that common sense is a dirty word in leftard world, and the belief that governments will always take care of you, is embedded. Everything has a cost to it Johnny. Everytime you let the government wipe your ass, they are taking control of you Johnny. You might like that Johnny, being one of the kept people, but it has price Johnny. They own you, you are kept man.
Well put Honey Pot!
It’s way better not to be beholding to those who consider you beneath them…even if you don’t have a flashy tv and all the bling bling things.
I don’t have credit card debt. Have car payments and usually bills AND the kid’s future in my hands! 🙂
I happily give up anything for her, (well except the glasses thing) and she works as well as goes to school full time.
But Johnny(s) I really really need these damn glasses so what do you say, float me a free plug like your non working musician friend, k?
…yeah, like that’s gonna happen! lol
Good post Kate and good comments all.
Daly you need to grow up along with the folks who find themselves in the unfriendly position of running out of financial rope while dangling on the brink of financial abbyss.
I am pushing 60yrs and have been without an income for the past 10 yrs…yes I too am one of the unfortunate “life ain’t fair” handicapped (car accident,neurological damage)people who aren’t able to meaningfully work for a living.
I don’t collect ANY disability $$ and I don’t intend to. My wife brings home $30K a year,and we live reasonably well on that sum. The trick is and was NOT being in debt and living within our means.
To those sceptics who can’t figure it out(no names mentioned Mr Daly),I suggest they reread the comments above…its all there.
Someone above said Its Attitude and yes it is because attitude is the paintbrush with which we colour our lives.
I have good days and not so good but Life is Good.
Have a good day…stay out of needless debt.
I know that Toronto is expensive, but since when does an income of $ 50,000 put you into the ‘working poor’ category? This family’s income was cut in half by an unfortunate event, but instead of cutting back, they continued living the same lifestyle ($ 3,800 for a TV, plus how much in interest on top of that?).
What bothered me about the article is the implication, repeated over and over again, that if you get into debt buying luxuries you cannot afford, IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! It’s the fault of the stores, who should have refused to sell you the stuff, and the financial institutions, who should have refused to extend credit to you, since you cannot afford it…
Oh wait, if they did refuse to sell you the stuff or extend credit to you, they’d be discriminating against you on the ground of social status! That would be illegal! In fact, you could haul them in front of a HRC!
So, it’s up to you to assume responsibility for your own financial mistakes…but wait, that’s contrary to liberal ideology! After all, you’re a victim – and victims cannot possibly be responsible for their situation! And besides, you’re entitled to have all the same goodies as someone earning three times your income. Anyone who tells you that you should be buying essentials before luxuries and sticking to a budget is obviously mean-spirited, judgmental and …worst of all…(shudder) conservative!
Maudlin, Daly,
Just how mentally deficient do you have to be to assume that some idiot who buys a $3800 TV they can’t afford deserves sympathy instead of a kick in the ass?
Seriously. Are you retarded? 50k isn’t poor, and blowing money you don’t have on frivolous spending isn’t victimhood.
My wife and I make several times what these two twits make and we could buy about 6 of our TV’s for the price of the one these idiots bought. I drive a 14 year old car (which I refuse to replace until it dies) not because I couldn’t buy another one but because I don’t spend extra money on a quickly depreciating asset unless I have to. My wife’s car is 6 years old. We live in a 1400 square foot home because a bigger one just costs more to finance, heat, pay taxes on, etc. – not to mention it’s more space to clean and furnish. That’s living within your means. All of this means we save. As a result of our savings, the government decides we need to be punished for this responsible behaviour in the form of higher taxes. When we retire, we will receive less of our money back in government retirement benefits which will be generously provided to those like these twits who don’t save for their own retirement.
Our system rewards poor behaviour and discourages – and even punishes – responsible behaviour. The acknowledgement and recognition of this fact is apparently limited to conservatives.
These people are where they are because they deserve to be. They did it to themselves, did it unnecessarily and you talk like we’re nazis for pointing out the bad behaviour like there should be a government program to bail out the irresponsible (to add to the already over-generous subsidies to stupid that already exist.)
Yup, you’re both leftards.
Thanks for the expressions of concern. I have not lost my pills. Yet. Barbara (and others who subscribe to ideas about “real” worlds…) are you seriously trying to suggest this debt problem is monopolized by “those” low income folks? Jesus! Never heard of a business man declaring bankruptcy, protecting personal assets in the process. Not trying to save the world, just here to remind you Kate is enabling you to feel better about yourself by identifying someone else to feel better than.
I mean, who exactly gets to belong to the group inside the margins? Female hockey helmet painters who show dogs in live in Saskatchewan?
Warwick; what group do you belong to, please? I would really like to know about “you” people.
“This is nothing more than people exercising there right to be victims, I will exercise my right to ignore them.”
If only it was that easy, I have a hard time ignoring the deductions on my paycheck. What are we going to do when all of the boomers are past their best before date. Their political clout and their “me me me” attitude are going to break us all.
This John Daly/Johnny Maudlin is the same self righteous piece of rat dung who cannot find a moral difference between Canadian soldiers and the Taliban head cutter they are hunting.
He is filth, and probably mentally disordered to boot.
Shows brilliant understanding of the concept of ‘net.’ Last time I checked: gross – debt/costs = net. That would make their net worth -6 billion.
Moving on, I have no sympathy to waste on people who ruin themselves with self inflicted wounds, be they physical or economic. I save it for those who are crushed by genuine accidents.
As to this business of lending to the “poor”, if you start following the money chain back up hill, you’ll discover a whole industries devoted to keeping these people in debt to the eyes. The auto industry, for example. The consumer products industry, for another.
Joke being, “the poor” DON’T PAY THE MONEY. They default. Go bankrupt. Do a moonlight flit. Go to jail. Die. Whatever. But pay they don’t.
That’s what this ABCpaper business is all about. Since the 1980’s banks and other lenders have been packaging this “toxic waste” debt and -selling it- to people who think the hight interest rate is worth the risk.
They were wrong, eh? Who’s finally paying the piper? Everybody. Me. As bloody well usual.
“I mean, who exactly gets to belong to the group inside the margins? Female hockey helmet painters who show dogs in live in Saskatchewan?”
There we have it folks…Daly suffers that ‘left out feeling’, and now we know he can’t paint and his dogs lost at the show.Hang in there Daly…hey have you tried to fit in at Kinsella’s?
Let’s watch for more news from the Social Justice Reporter, Tanya Telaga. Could be entertaining. Wonder if she has tea with Olivia and Jack?
Progressives just see the world differently than conservatives or libertarians. Progressives want to break down all issues into victims and oppressors. Conservatives and libertarians favor personal choice and personal responsibility.
In this case (according to progressives), the banks and businesses are oppressing these poor victims by extending them credit and goods. Therefore the victims deserve to be excused and compensated for this offense.
The conservatives may sympathize with these people but also realize that the responsibility and solution is up to the individuals involved not the government. If you want better outcomes, make better choices.
“Stupid is as stupid does!”
They should bring back the old movies they showed in the 50’s to high school students such as this one, “Your Thrift Habits” (1948)
http://www.archive.org/details/YourThri1948
It’s not rocket science!
“Warwick; what group do you belong to, please? I would really like to know about “you” people.”
I thought I spoke in plain English but apparently not clear enough.
The group I belong to in this situation is the group of people who DO NOT spend more than I can afford and who DO NOT then whine and cry that I’m a victim because I put myself in a bad position.
I’m a member of a group which lives within my means and doesn’t think blatant stupidity should warrant a government program.
I’m quite aware of what group you belong to, leftard.
To John Daly – no, I don’t think the debt problem is monopolized by low-income earners. I’ve known several high-income professionals who’ve had to declare bankruptcy because they spent, spent, spent. And I’ll bet you feel terribly sorry for the family which blew $ 3,800 on a TV, but not for a doctor who took too many vacations and bought too many cars.
However, we all have to live within our means, no matter how much or how little we earn, and not blame others for our problems. Look for solutions to our problems and learn to make responsible decisions – that is the true meaning of empowerment, which you seem to deny low-income earners.
Hey Johnny Asshat, not that Kate needs anyone to defend her (she DID wipe the floor with you, however). Although I can’t speak for Kate, nor for anyone else here, I have absolutely NO PROBLEM in declaring that I AM ‘better than’ the two in the article. (Financial responsiblity speaking…perhaps they are better square dancers than my wife and I)
Simple cause and effect, they lived beyond thier means by exercising irresponsible judgment and fell on thier faces. I don’t feel sorry for them. The husband’s condition, however, is unfortunate but not the end of the world.
FYI, I also suffer with a sciatic nerve condition like the husband does, which at times can be incredibly painfull. I work out 5 to 6 days a week for 1.5 hours and this helps quite a bit.
I have a new motorhome, a (small) house almost paid for, just bought a new Toyota Camry a few weeks ago and have my eye on a $3000.00 Nikon D-300. I have no cedit card debt, but my RBC Avion Visa is going to get me to the Dominican next winter because I pay off all of my purchases BEFORE the end of the month. I also have a 42″ Plasma tv and a fair chunk in RSP’s. If I sound like I’m tooting my horn I AM and frankly I don’t give a rat’s ass if you don’t like my ‘tone’ because I’m prod of my acomplishments, both material goods and a good home life with a well adjusted responsible teen age son I will never have to worry about.
All of my purchases have been well thought out and painstakenly researched. Although I could pick up the new Nikon today, I’m concentrating now on getting a few more bucks in the bank before I do this. I don’t exactly NEED it right now, my point and shoot digital will suffice until then.
Being self-employed like Kate and many others here,I work countless hours and weekends and have no company pension to look forward to. It was a lifestyle choice, just like that couple chose to buy the big tv and furniture. Thanks to the Alberta Advantage I’ll probably pay the Camry off next month. I paid CASH for my motorhome and make no apologies that I work hard for what I have.
Aside from a piddly Canada Pension which probably won’t exist when I turn 65 in 22 years (and pay a big chunk for every year at tax time) I refuse to be a burden on anyone. I try my damndest to make good choices because every choice has a consequence, either positive or negative.
On that note, stop blubbering, no one likes a sissy. This is Kate’s house, if you’re going to come here and get all pissy pants over us ‘mean-spirited’ conservatives, perhaps you’d feel more at home over at Kinsella’s hovel or some ‘progreesive’ crybaby, world-owes-me-a-living, this-isn’t-fair stich and bitch blog.
these people are not poor
My wife is an absolute pitbull when it comes to spending, if the bank owes us $5 she is on to them. We have zero debt outside of our mortgage, which is coming down nicely. If you are a spender, marry a saver and learn to compromise, thanks to my wife we are putting away a good amount of money.
I read once in a Ric Edelman book that “Poor is a state of mind, broke is a state of wallet. You can fix being broke, it’s not so easy to fix being poor.” How can these people be considered poor when they make 50K?
When my wife and I bought our first house five years ago, we bought much less than we could afford at the time on our two salaries, knowing that in a few years we would start our family and our income would be reduced by my wife’s salary. People need to plan their futures better and take a little responsibility for their actions. It’s not rocket surgery.
Colin,
Our wives must be related. Mine has the same attitude. Her chequebook is the ‘other’ family Bible!
Wouldn’t the paper know better than to choose this particular couple? They are not a good example of poverty. They’re not a good example of anything.
Why would someone go on permanent disability for a condition related to sciatica? Right at the moment, I am in excruciating pain from a pinched sciatic nerve. I’m receiving treatment which is helping and take codeine to get me through this rough patch. O.K., I’m not employed, but live alone and the doctor hasn’t mentioned home care.
Their spending habits are ridiculous, but – permanently disabled? If he is, then I’m insisting on home care.
This reminds me of a neighbor who drove a bus in a relatively large city in Ontario ( … no not the center of the socialist universe Toronto ).
One day he remarked to me that he could always tell when the welfare checks were mailed or handed out . I asked him why , and he said that the number of riders on his bus route jumped on that particular day and the most popular stop was the beer store … not the grocery store !
You said it Brian. My dad drove a cab and could tell you the same stories: grocery store to stock up on chips and pop, followed by the beer store, all with dad’s meter running.
Yep, your hard earned tax dollars at work.
I have sympathy for low-income people who have problems meeting basic living expenses so I don’t begrudge subsidized housing and daycare. I do have a problem with people who live beyond their means, spending money they don’t have on things they don’t need and then try to put the blame elsewhere.
You can not be a victim if you have volunteered.
I’m working about 10hrs a week overtime so that I can take home a little over 50K to my family. Our financial plight is a bit better than when I was going to school and working part time. We spend more than we should on things like a 32″ LCD TV ect…
This winter my wife went to Mexico with her sisters because we couldn’t both afford to go and she deserves it. Unfortunately because of our naivety my wife called home collect often at $20+ /min(it makes me sick just thinking about it). Who is to blame? Me? My Wife? George W. Bush?
I guess it doesn’t matter, when we got our $1000 phone bill something had to be done. Instead of phoning a reporter, we cut off our TV programming witch saves us about $150.00/mo (sound familiar). In the grand scheme of things it is not a big sacrifice; but, for the first time in 20yrs I’ve missed the March Madness tournament, and am missing the NBA & NHL playoffs for the first time ever. The bright side is the bill is down to $300 and getting smaller, where if we wouldn’t have cut our bill I don’t think we’d have made a dent. In a few months we can re subscribe to our cable company and get their $50/mo sign up bonus. Bonus (I love silver linings)
Frank said WRT New York “If you can make it here, you can make it anywhere”; my spin is this “This is Canada, if you can’t make it here, you can’t make it anywhere”.
We are not poor, we are fortunate!
I rotated and extended my sciatic joint during martial arts,causing nerve and ligament damage,total time off work,six months.I just finished a very painful session with an ISM therapist where she sticks needles deep into my lower back to stimulate the muscles,oh yeah,I,m still working tomorrow.All in how you approach the matter.And sitting on your duff is watching the idiot box is probably the last thing you want to do for your sciatic,that is if you really do want to recover.
Brian…in the hood that I grew up in there was an actual line up outside of the bank running all the way down the street,unheard of any other day other than welfare day.First stop was the beer store to pay off your debt and to stock up.Second stop was to the local coke dealer to pay off your debt and to stock up.The groceries and other essentials can come later,a vicious circle passed on from one generation to the next,right to this very day.
Kathy Shaidle: I’ll bet you your dad was white too, eh?
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again…if you really want to see what racism is about, you have to observe a liberal. Our self-hating friend Maudlin/Daly is a perfect example. I pity him.
Gellen re your pinched sciatic nerve, are you on a statin drug to lower cholesterol like Lipitor, Crestor, Zocor.
Years ago. . . Many yeas ago, I rented a self storage unit for business supplies. I kept personal extra tools and STUFF there too.
Stuff turned out to be a burden around the neck. Stuff I may use. Stuff that was costing a monthly fee.
I was not too bright then.
Have not rented a unit for 25 years now.
Consider the vast numbers of self storage warehouses that are full today. 10 at least in this small town.
Guess many are like I was. Not very bright.
Better to give the stuff away to friends, than to store it. = TG
What an appallingly racist thing to say, Mr. Maudlin.
Oh BOOOO HOOOO ….. I am almost out of tears now.
How will I weep for poor Brenda Martin?
a friends money burned a hole in his pocket, he drank, he smoked, gambled, bought musical instruments on sight alone(he was a good organist). After getting married they bought a small house, new furniture, appliances, etc. and were over 100k in debt and He wanted to move into a new bigger house. She put the skids on and took away his chequing acct and gave him an allowance monthly. Last time i saw him he asked to borrow $20. sheesh.
Social Justice: the stubborn application of unworkable solutions to imaginary problems.
🙂