Y2Kyoto: Laws Were Made To Be Repealed

60 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: Laws Were Made To Be Repealed”

1. The first link reminded me too much of high school.

2. Flatulence capture technology .

3. The next question is, how?
   Answer: “I get paid to breed, not to read”

4. They say what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It is unfortunate they can’t same the same about California.
   In answer to your question:
   They are going to conserve energy by replacing bright ideas with dim bulbs. They have already started in Hollywood.

5. …maybe like in Rocky Mt Picture Horror show, we can harvest oil from zits off teenages?

6. Only a state that would elect a wack-job like Barbara Boxer could come up with a law like that. Man, Arnold must have lots of sleepless nights out there.

7. I work in this industry. It will mean enormous profits to whoever wants to lie in the most convincing ways.
   Electronic devices have a half-life of about 3 years. The maintenance costs of these houses will be enormous.
   There will be one advantage though. What was the name of that spaceship in the Hitchhikers series that had the telephone sanitizers, hairdressers, and advertising account executives? California?
   Derek

8. “Arnold must have lots of sleepless nights out there.”
   I presume anytime he utters something remotely conservative his Kennedy clan MRS. Smacks him and has him on the couch.

9. There is a new solar cell process that delivers the product in rolls of Mylar like plastic at about 20% the cost of current solar cell production.
   There were photos of the modern plant and a big roll, like newsprint, but black, of the solar cell product.
   Link when I find it. = TG

10. Hey, I saw a Los Angeles, California house this AM on KTLA that was generating its own energy.
    Ya, it was speeding down a hillside in pieces, apparently caused by water running somewhere under the ground it was sitting on.
    Funny how back a few (ok many) decades, the govts of the land, made it a priority to electrify the rural areas.
    They installed poles and wires to every farm house and small town all over North America.
    Before that each house had its own little power plant, usually a windmill, that generated electricity to be stored in batteries and was used very sparingly.
    Terribly inconvenient but useful.
    One wonders where we would be today using alternate power sources and less oil, if the govts had not decided to make those ‘improvements’ back then.
    We wouldn’t be cutting butter with a chainsaw, I’ll bet.

11. I guess California has screwed-up energy production with its policies so much so that they will hold potential home-owners and developers to ransom to produce electricity (solar panels and mini-wind turbines) where no utility in its right mind will increase capacity. Feel-good legislation that will only hurt voters far enough in the future so as to get away with it now.
    Arnold Shriver is doing a wonderful job turning around Caleeeefornia!

12. Wouldn’t it just be easier to pass a law banning global warming?
    Take *that* CO2!

13. Rockyt,
    Excellent points made.
    Farms and rural homes with standby power could make a real difference during a grid overload. Nothing wrong with being at least partly self sufficient.
    Not the link I wanted, but good anyway.
    news.com/Solar-cell-breaks-efficiency-record/2100-11395_3-6141527.html
    = TG

14. When someone comes up with a way to harness the energy my kids expend every day, our house will be self sufficient. Well, at least closer to net zero.

15. Coal. Coal-burning stoves. Heat water, house, generate electricity. Perfect.

16. Wood, is good.

17. My grandfather’s place was completely energy self suffieient, back in the first thirty years of the last century. In fact, it might have even supplied more energy than it consumed. Of course, it would be a bit unwieldy for everyone to live on 360 acres of forest land.
    Although theoretically unattainable, it’s still an interesting target – way too many people think that room temperature means 80 degrees Fahrenheit.
    Our new house is 50% larger than our old one, and so far appears to consume about 50% as much electricity. We’re happy about that.

18. Wood stove heats house, cooks meals, makes steam for steam motor generator, charges household battery pack and humidifies home.
    A four in one device. = TG

19. “The laws of thermodynamics do not particularly concern themselves with the specific how and why of heat transfer, which makes sense for laws that were formulated before atomic theory was fully adopted. They deal with the sum total of energy and heat transitions within a system, and do not take into account the specific nature of heat transference on the atomic or molecular level.”
    Does the Governator know about this?

20. *
    are you kidding… think of all the hot air
    that emanates from la-la land.
    *

21. “The next question is, how?”
    Arnold’s looking at the script right now: Total Recall meets Bladerunner. Guaranteed blockbluster.

22. Remember, this is Hollywood…their likely thinking dilithium crystals.

23. It’s eezzz to go zero net energy. Just like the money in Alberta except with homes it’s done with smile power. Sheesh you people are so naive.

24. I can give you a “zero net energy” house. It is called a cave.

25. a cave, yep, and if we don’t kick these agw assholes up the side of the head that’s all we’ll be able to afford

26. This is possible in California. Given a very small house, well insulated with limited AC and a decent sized yard with lots of solar, it is possible.
    However, it will add $500,000 to the cost of the house to save maybe $5,000 per year. And the solar will have to be replaced every 25 years.
    Imagine in 2021 how the usual suspects will be complaining that how unaffordable housing has become.

27. Calif. has a bill pending where the government will control the themostat in your home remotely…how Orwellian is that?…sorry I mean how “Kinsellian” is that?

28. Wood stove heats house, cooks meals, makes steam for steam motor generator, charges household battery pack and humidifies home.
    A four in one device. = TG
    and generate electricity—your kidding right.
    here is something about the right power expectation.
    http://cgi.ebay.ca/Antique-Fan-by-ALL-COOL-FAN-Co-Hot-Air-Stirling-Engine_W0QQitemZ180214092612QQihZ008QQcategoryZ4037QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
    big coal plants or gas fired generators are about as efficient as the laws of thermodynamics allow. woodstoves and other hippytech are about as low in efficiency as you can get. dont be fooled by the men in beards, suzuki included.

29. P.J. O’Rourke has a great piece on California’s stupidity crisis when they froze the retail price of electricity and not the wholesale price.
    It’s pretty funny.
    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=4277
    “President Bush was wrong to grant an extension of executive orders requiring out-of-state utilities to supply power to California. And everyone is wrong to listen to Californians whine about electricity deregulation. There never was any deregulation. The California Public Utilities Commission merely changed its regulations, which apparently weren’t stupid enough to meet Golden State standards.
    Under California’s 1996 re-regulation plan, electric companies sold their generating plants and became distributors. They were required to buy their power on the wholesale spot market and forbidden to enter into any long-term power supply contracts. Retail electricity prices were lowered by 10 percent and frozen at the new rate until March 2002.
    This is like requiring A&P to sell you porterhouse at $2 a pound, no matter what the price of beef on the hoof. Imagine how many steaks there would be, and how many supermarkets. Go to one of those boarded-up grocery stores, purchase a phantom T-bone, screw it into a ceiling fixture, and try to light your house. You’re in California.
    La-la Land, however, is a state of mind as well as a state of the Union. The world is full of mental Californians who, despite a century of socialist catastrophes, are willing to blame the free market for things like the California energy crisis. “What brought [California] to its knees is … blind faith in the market to provide for people’s basic needs,” says a piece in the Toronto Star by a member of the Star’s editorial board.
    The critics of economic liberty are right: the free market did cause California’s energy crisis. Hooray. Capitalism is doing its job. The critics are right without knowing what they’re talking about. The free market isn’t a means “to provide for people’s basic needs.” It doesn’t come in or out of political fashion or lose its mind. The free market is a precise measurement of voluntary price settings.
    Californians devised a system of electricity sales that ignored every dimension of the free market. (Interesting that the “Information Economy” is centered in a place that’s immune to information.) The free market is a yardstick, and Californians got smacked with it. Mideast oil jitters, cold weather, natural gas price spikes, and the plain unpredictable freedom of the free market caused wholesale electricity costs to rise and California utilities to go $12 billion into the red.”

30. Way past time for other regions to stop following the lead of Kalifornians.
    The state is a train wreck of failures that all stem from moonbat idealism. They’ve managed to destroy their own industries and infrastructure while accomplishing nothing of value. They’ve been doing this for over 30 years and they still have not learned a single thing from the experience.
    Kalifornia is a living lab that demonstrates the following the populist trends at the expense of rationality.

31. I don’t think the greens get it…
    No matter what stupid changes they make to the system, people smarter than them (aka conservatives) will figure out a way to game the system and take advantage. The only way to make people use resources efficiently is to charge them the actual cost of producing and delivering the resources. This seems to be counterintuitive for someone who only consumes fair-trade granola.
    For coal that should include the cost of carbon sequestration. We need to remove the subsidies that we give energy producers so we pay what the energy is actually worth. Only then can I see the average folk using energy more efficiently.
    //rant off

32. Demonstrates the FOLLY of following populist trends.

33. Government controlled thermostats? In Canada? Just wait for it. Chimpy Mcliar and his merry band of moonbats have already floated a “voluntary” connection to big brother. Voluntary will turn into mandatory once the sheeple have been lulled into believing it is for the “greater good”.
    Damn social engineers will never connect to my home, even if it means disconnecting from the grid.

34. The golden state should stay the golden state and not become the green state to make a bunch of tree hugging eco-freaks happy over this global warming poppycock bull kaka

35. Our company will be producing home solar power generation units that will cost less than a dollar a watt (retail) within the next six months. Capitalism is wonderful.

36. Don’t you see the plan? This will be a revenue bonanza when they announce the fees for non-compliance.

37. With leftards, I think the evil robots in the Matrix had something worth looking at.
    If hollywood half-wits and Marin country commies want to generate energy, let’s plug’em in!
    A leftard isn’t as valuble as a duracel anyway!

38. You will never get 25 years out of solar panels or almost any other electronic device for that matter. Plus, there is no way to store enough power to run a home at all times from solar panels. I work in the industry and know that it can be done in theory, but economically will never work until new technology is discovered.

39. Oh, the solar thing can be done. You just need a second building(or a sealed off, with ventilation, part of the house)for the battery plant. Not unlike a telephone company central office(phones run on DC, and most CO’s can keep up for approx 4 hours with no external power source).
    It is all in the batteries folks.

40. RagingKozak,
    Did you say new tech? Did you see ED Minchau @ 11:01?
    George Bush, the Enviro – Guy.
    The 40.7 percent cell was developed using a unique structure called a multi-junction solar cell. This type of cell achieves a higher efficiency by capturing more of the solar spectrum.
    In a multi-junction cell, individual cells are made of layers, where each layer captures part of the sunlight passing through the cell. This allows the cell to get more energy from the sun’s light.
    For the past two decades researchers have tried to break the “40 percent efficient” barrier on solar cell devices. In the early 1980s, DOE began researching what are known as *multi-junction gallium arsenide-based solar cell devices,* multi-layered solar cells which converted about 16 percent of the sun’s available energy into electricity.
    In 1994, DOE’s National Renewable Energy laboratory broke the 30 percent barrier, which attracted interest from the space industry. Most satellites today use these multi-junction cells.
    Reaching 40 percent efficiency helps further President Bush’s Solar America Initiative (SAI) goals, which aims to win nationwide acceptance of clean solar energy technologies by 2015. By then, it is intended that America will have enough solar energy systems installed to provide power to one to two million homes, at a cost of 5 to 10 cents per kilowatt/hour.
    The SAI is also key component of President Bush’s Advanced Energy Initiative, which provides a 22 percent increase in research and development funding at DOE and seeks to reduce our dependence on foreign sources of oil by changing the way we power our cars, homes and businesses.
    For more information, visit the Solar America Initiative website at:
    http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/solar_america/
    ==============================
    Texas Oil pres goes green? = TG

41. They way net zero works in Germany is that there are two meters in your house one that supplies power to the grid at a huge mark up and the other the meter that actually powers your home. This means it is economically advantageous for a home to generator electricity.
    The reason for this is the inherent instability of the power grid. This grid problem is the main factor in our energy policy. This the reason there isn’t a whole bunch of commercial Cogen in Saskatchewan. In reality many companies should be Co-generating, businesses like pulp mills, and hog barns, and even the steal mills, the universities and legislature. But our grid cannot support it, because power use is instantaneous and supply must meet demand.
    Moving back to single source power in housing instead of a grid based power system is folly. California has it wrong and so do many in the Net Zero circles. Houses by their very nature use more energy then they could make. It would be much better to build smaller combined natural gas and coal power plants near residential communities and use the waste heat to heat these homes and to provide cooling with adsorption chillers. But no one wants to have a power plant in their back yard and few people would want to pay for the cost of distributed power.
    By the way the easiest way to go net zero is dump air conditioning, good luck doing that in California.

42. That ones kinda dry… This one is better.
    http://www.energy.gov/news/4503.htm
    = TG

43. By the way the easiest way to go net zero is dump air conditioning, good luck doing that in California.
    Actually, that depends a whole lot on where you are in California. I don’t have air conditioning in my condominium in Mountain View, and, in a typical year, there are only two days or so in which I wish that I did. That’s true of anywhere between San Franciso and Sunnyvale (with a population of about two million), and it’s true of anywhere on the coast north of San Luis Obispo or so.
    Not that I’m in favor of having government at any level tell me what temperature I can keep my home at.

44. [quote]because power use is instantaneous and supply must meet demand.[/quote]
    Heric Holmes,
    I know you mean one has to control (Adj) supply such that it only meets demand. That is what the NUTS just don’t understand, they think AC power comes from a KVA bank, of sorts.
    The Coal issue will not be an issue, they will be given “exceptions” in any Bill. They can’t bond out upgrades & a 30% drop in output efficiency.
    The Dems have split their side of the Senate 20 to 8 against California, now would be the time for a frozen boot to the 90’s outdated technology equation, Gore’s Friends
    California has to be “contained” in that wacky world of Crap. Bush/ Congress needs to stop backing their worthless Bonds & let the F…s die

45. RagingKozak, kingstonlad:
    Batteries are good for anything mobile, but houses (even mobile homes) generally aren’t mobile. Flywheels and compressed air are where it’s at for home electrical storage.

46. Silicon Valley Jim,
    Your area is one of the biggest users of Electricity in the USA. Your Data centers are energy pigs. If you want to talk about air conditioning there is no better example of the need for cooling and the problems with green then Data Centers.
    Who cares about housing. Data Centers and Mainframes will easily use more electricity then the housing requirements of your area and it is only going to get worse.
    The thing that most greenies don’t understand is that their computer uses a lot of electricity. At home the load may be small. But the Data Centers used by search engines and Data hosts is incredible, but they don’t have to see those numbers because they don’t pay for the energy.
    Your right, it is fairly easy to control the residential cooling requirements in Northern California, Oregon, Washington State and Coastal BC. They don’t get hot enough to use large amounts of cooling and don’t require much heat in the winter. Southern California requires cooling though.

47. What a load of rubbish being bandied about.
    The energy equation is simple … You use = You pay.
    Any effort to get around that creates imbalances and greater cost.
    Simple … PAY = USE !
    Don’t want to pay? Then don’t use.
    Kalifornians think they can use and NOT pay … really expecting everyone else to pay for their use.
    Whether through subsidies or government backed junk bonds it does not matter these people want YOU to pay for their existence. They want you to give up your existence to subsidize theirs.
    They want you to pay premiums to subsidize their cost of living.
    You know what?
    Kalifornia should be cut off and made to live on their own.
    Vive le Kalifornia Libre!

48. The market for existing homes in California just jumped 60% . . .

49. I’d like to see those do-gooders pushing the merits of ‘zero energy’ try it themselves for a change.
    I chose that lifestyle, but it helps to own 30 acres of standing wood, and to have the time on hand, and health, to harvest, cut, split, dry and burn that wood season after season. You can of course have the wood delivered, but then you’re no longer ‘zero energy’; you depend on someone else’s resources.
    As for the solar panels, they provide enough power for some basic stuff (one fridge, water pump and a few lights) most of the time. In winter though, our batteries run low quite often. If we still need power I have to run the generator, but otherwise I just do as my grand-dad did: store food in the root cellar, use the outhouse, and go to bed early.
    I like that life, but that’s me. I’d be the last to preach to others to adopt it in the name of saving the planet. Do whatever suits you.

50. Our company will be producing home solar power generation units that will cost less than a dollar a watt (retail) within the next six months. Capitalism is wonderful.
    It is isnt it. so for a quick $2000 I can run my stove on a sunny day.
    how much would it cost for batteries to hold say 50KW , which would take an average vancouver house thru 4 days of rain, at min load.?