The following figures were taken from the Canadian Dairy Commission website dated in 2006:
Provincial Shares of Milk Share Quotas (MSQ) for Industrial Milk
Province / Percentage
Nfld & Labrador 0.3
PEI 1.8
Nova Scotia 1.1
New Brunswick 1.2
Quebec 46.5
Ontario 31.2
Manitoba 3.6
Saskatchewan 2.6
Alberta 6.3
British Columbia 5.5
would be interesting to see that data lined up with the population
quotas… didn’t they try those in the Soviet Union?
why dairy, and not shoes as well?
Yes: lets get everything in line, we need a shoe quota…only fitting!!!
“It might be that those figures had reasons behind them when the Canadian Dairy Commission was set up thirty or more years ago”
A single reason. That is approximately the proportion that existed when the commission was set up.
Why is it still?
Multiply your numbers by 100 and assume that’s the number of farms and everyone produces the same. You get 10,000 units of production in Canada (4650 in Que and 260 in Sask). Now ask yourself how to expand the production 5%. Easier to add 500 units of production and infrastructure to Quebec? or to Saskatchewan?
On the same hand you also have land use models like Von Thunens model: (http://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/eng/ch6en/conc6en/vonthunen.html) showing land use. Such models are based on the economics of transporting product to the market and inputs to the “manufacturing” site.
While a place like BC should have more, a place like Saskatchewan will never have much production like dairy until they have the people to consume the product.
and remember, the Quebec Farmer’s Union is a strong supporter of an independent Quebec BUT they still believe they would maintain their quota in the rest of Canada after they leave.
Terminally stuck on stupid.
the Quebec quota seems to correlate pretty closely with the Federal Equalization Handout Program
for 2006-07 fiscal, Ottawa took in $11.54 BILLION taxpayer dollars that they then used for “equalization” and of that, they sent $5.54 Billion to Quebec.
48 % of equalization handout money and 46.5 % of the milk quota handout.
Or in a free market, if people in Saskatchewan want to produce more milk they can. If they cannot sell it, then they don’t.
enough
buvez !! toute le monde buvez le lait !!!
if quebec opts out out will they arrange via francophone sympathetic lieberal leader to keep the quota ??? or is the quebec share of the quota going to be divied up according to the proportions existing now with the rest of the provinces ???
or maybe, just maybe, viewed as an opportune time to review quotas including the notion of quota at all ???
truth is stranger than fiction here in canukistan ……
it appears the cartoon is correct in more ways than one.
Ontario’s population, 2006: 12.7 million
Canada’s population, 2006: 32.8 million
Ontario % population: 38.7%
Ontario % milk quota: 31.2%
Ontario gets screwed again!
Barc’s…It’s INDUSTRIAL milk..nothing to do with population…..milk products can be made and shipped anywhere! A pure commodity situation.
In fact the location that can produce the lowest cost product should have the highest concentration of producers.
The milk marketing boards are the most politically motivated creations and in the East…..have always been about propping up Quebec.
And wackos at the PCRM wanted to stick stupid warning labels on milk becuase of their junk science connection milk and cancer what rot
It’s frustrating that even a conservative government won’t end this monopoly which has soaked Canadian consumers and farmers for a generation.
in a free market that is how it would work. but in a marketing board situation the things that cost the most are the allotments or quotas, these are purchased as well, new quotas are not created, they are bought and sold.
quebec in effect – “hogs” the milk quotas.
BTW -dairy farms would likely be outside the greenhouse gas emmision as are car plants.
Respectfully disagree with you OMMAG. The economics of any business rely heavily on population. More specifically where it is.
Wheat and cattle in large quantities are ideally suited to the current situation on the prairies. Milk is not. It is more expensive to ship than wheat (refrigeration). So when you set up a milk processing plant you do it next to population centers (your consumers). (I think Saskatoon still has a small plant which caters largely to Saskatchewan). Producers set up near such plants to retain low transport costs. The farther away you are the less competitive advantage you have.
Set up a plant in Nunavut and try to compete with the guys in Toronto if you don’t believe me.
12 years ago I sent a (paper) letter to then ag. minister Ralph Goodale asking why this is so.
His response was that this is the percentage of the market the dairy producers in these provinces had at the time the commission was set up. So change? why change?
It bothers me when I know there are famers in the west that would like to go into this line of work, yet cannot because change in the ag. sector is just not done. The crow rate, and the wheat board come to mind?…
I know there is no shortage of yogurt and cheese sold here in the west from Quebec… please don’t think I don’t “read the label”… first…
I don’t think the Alberta beef producers http://www.albertabeef.org have any agreement in place where they don’t have to worry about market share…
In the west… we have 9.9 million people (this year), almost a third of the poplulation of Canada, yet we settle for 18% of this market.
The Atlantic provinces have 2.3 million people (7% of Canada?) and 4.4% of the market
…ah, I know what yer thinkin’, “at least they have all those Senators to help them…”
I double check when I buy cheese. If its from the east it stays on the shelve or I jump the boarder and buy it in Blaine. If we want freedom from these scum we all must do our part.
HHmmmm Safeway Davis Street butter 5.09 a lb
corner gas station in Blaine 1.99 a lb
I wonder where I spend my butter money?
Goes for all dairy products. Why would anyone pay more than they have to?
As we’ve seen over the past few days here at SDA, ROC is and has been getting royally screwed by PQ, by virtue of their leverage: with the political power shape in the country (need PQ for majority in commons, senate more than useless); a Librano party that divides and conquers; an MSM in the Librano pocket that sells the “you can have something for nothing” pap. All this, and you get insulted when you travel in Quebec, to boot.
Triple E senate is high on my list if we’re ever going to free ourselves from the Librano “quagmire” into which we’ve descended.
A conservative knows there is no such thing as “something for nothing”. A Librano knows that the illusion is easily sold, yields power when you do so, and is delivered by stealing from the productive.
Kyoto is a little different – in this case, you dupe the productive into giving away their wealth, rather than stealing it. But that’s only because there is no international governmental infrastructure for stealing. Yet.
Free markets for dairy. For eggs. For poultry. For grain. For beef. For labor in Quebec. Let individuals take the risks in production, and let the most able producer win.
Canada – stealing from the productive to empower and enrich a few, aided and abetted by a complicit, concentrated MSM. It could be different. Start with senate reform to take the PQ chains from our necks.
“Ontario % population: 38.7%
Ontario % milk quota: 31.2%
Ontario gets screwed again!
FLASH . . get this news to Dulton . . he is losing his “fiscal imbalance” argument so he needs to do a bait & switch real fast to the “Bovine Balance . . NOT ” scheme.
I remember when prices and supply of milk varied wildly and farmers were doing the boom and bust thing. People at the time including consumers were crying for a way of managing the chaos thus the Quota system was born. However, along with the system came corruption and politicized agriculture which in the end will always benefit Quebec. The system brought stability for the lucky few able to get Quotas and higher prices for consumers. It is now almost impossible to get a Quota unless you are connected or your parents hand it down to you. People got what they asked for and now no one has the courage to take on the radical Quebec farmer and end the protection they now enjoy.
You buy and sell your milk quota…the quota holds its value and actually increases its value as the years go by.
My family decided to get out of the small family dairy business and sold their quota alone for a cool $0.5M (much more than what they originally paid)…if they wanted, I don’t see why someone from Alberta or Saskatchewan couldn’t have bought it. I’m not specifically aware of any restrictions.
The quota system protects the little family farms that keep many people employed (an entire family…2 parents, 2 grandparents and 4 kids) and off pogey. Get rid of quotas and marketing boards (like the Americans want…even though they subsidize their farmers, too) and the little family farms go belly up…and the farmers go on pogey. I think it is a relatively small price for Canadians to pay to keep folks off pogey and to keep a local supply of food.
But then, I’m not an economist and I have (had) a vested interest.
Eeyore said “The quota system protects the little family farms that keep many people employed (an entire family…2 parents, 2 grandparents and 4 kids) and off pogey.”
So what about the 35 or 100 or ???? people not working in the industry because a few scum have all the quota?
If I want to sell cheese or milk or grain or whatever if it belongs to me its mine and you have no say.
“If I want to sell cheese or milk or grain or whatever if it belongs to me its mine and you have no say.”
Why then do we have a say if you want to sell cocaine, or marajuana or opium???
Why do we insist we have laws to control some products like milk, eggs, marajuana etc.
Lets remove all the laws based on your “right” (read – entitlement) to do what ever you want??
Milk, eggs, marijuana…
Too much.
Why not everything that is produced? Why not a planned economy? Why not make any unplanned production of anything illegal? Why not make ownership of capital illegal?
I didnt know that milk was an illegal substance. Jerk Off!!!!!
Utterly ridiculous.
Barcs:
Can’t have people doing whatever they want. That would lead to freedom and prosperity, and next thing you know you’d have income disparities.
Best to just let government control everything. Safer that way.
Couldn’t have said it better rabbit.
I thought communism was a failed experiment?
Very good points, shaken. Well said.
I have my own idea about the Liberano/Dipper/Bloc push for the Kayota thingie. I think that the plan is to recycle taxpayers and carbon credit $$$ through Mo tse Strong outfit in China. Old Mo is already lerking over there so it would be quite easy…is that bank in France, used to funnel ‘money for oil’ $$$ that the Liberanos and Saddam used before The Coalition of the Willing derailed that pipeline for ‘blood’ $$$, still open? Fino Elf, or something, it was/is called.
Things that make me go hummm?
The quota system in Canada ensures that we have cruel chicken farms with force fed foul producing like machines and desposed of with pitchforks while they are still alive. Farmers should sell their produce in a open market directly to the customer. We should have local butchers and local markets. Excess produce should be sold directly from farmer/rancher to buyer. The internet would make this easy. It would not employ legions of paper shufflers like the CWB does but it would make farm life profitable and would end stockyard life for cattle and short, cruel cell life for foul.
I grew up in the beautiful Cypress Hills. Our chickens lived five or six years. They lived outside in summer and inside a hut with access to outside in winter. Our dog kept them out of the yard. They produced eggs, replacements for themselves and fried chicken that tasted delicious – something city folk could never imagine. Our cattle lived outside too, the calves and cows had grass under their feet in summer and snow in winter. My Mom and Dad took good care of all our creatures because they took good care of us.
We need the Right to own Property in our constitution and it is time most of the crown land and Reservations were put up for sale to individuals so we can get our people out of the rat hole cities. IMP.
Things that make me go hummm?
”people not working in the industry because a few scum have all the quota?”
”I didnt know that milk was an illegal substance. Jerk Off!!!!!”
Excuse me kate. Do you tolerate this idiot FREE because he espouses rightwing dogma?
Truth to close to home?
1.20 US a pound, someone is getting jacked- the ROC consumer.
http://www.dairyline.com/prices.htm
He sure is tolerant isn’t he 🙂
The point FREE, is your assertion that property rights should be supreme. If you strike down marketing boards because what you grow is yours and your own business then why don’t we strike down drug laws if what I can grow is mine to do with as I please.
If you’d read rather than just typing slogans and garbage you would notice that I haven’t said we SHOULD have marketing boards I have only expanded the argument of why it is in place. And asked a couple questions to clarify your point of view.
You cannot have a debate without actual information. Although you certainly convinced me of the righteousness of your argument with your “Jerk Off!!!!!” argument. I stand corrected of… of something… I think
Jema54:
We need the Right to own Property in our constitution
You found the worm at the base of all of this gross favoritism, eating away at any freedoms we had before collective rights took president over Individual rights. With its attendant responsibilities.
Thank you for pointing this out. Most people think they actually own there land. They pay a lease & can sell it, but in reality there only allowed to own it at the governments pleasure. Including farms or any home
If you don’t own land or property, your not considered a real citizen in any Country. Its the major reason so many came here to settle. Land!!! The liberal socialist scum divers have taken our right to be our own people by this tactic.
Time for a renewal of private property rights including mineral rights. Not having all land under the steel grip of all levels of governments. Provincial or Federal. Sell Federal lands, & this Nation will bloom.
By the way. Include a clause that forbids Imminent domain. Where any group (Usually rich business firms or government elitists) or developer who can show a government. That they can make more taxes on any land. Can with the connivance of civic , state or federal powers. Have the right to kick generational families or home owners, ranchers or whomever, off there estate is not Property rights. Its Theft by plutocracy. Period. An oligarchy of the greedy, with powers over the tax payer while, they abuse hard fought rights. Notice this does not touch them.
Funny thing we used to have them, before WW1. That with no income taxes. Gee this temporarily enacted measure is how old now?
The usual road to slavery is that first they take away your guns, then they take away your property, then last of all they tell you to shut up and say you are enjoying it. – James A. Donald
Barcs….Normally that would be right.
Thing is though that it may be cheaper to produce milk in areas other than Quebec…..if so processors could be set up to take advantage of the situation.
Without government interference that would happen.
I’d say that In Winnipeg for instance we could have a booming milk products industry.
Low cost feed….being the root for dairy operations
leading to processors who could transport the end product milk powder, whey, fat wherever it was needed.
The population model only works if you have everything close to the markets.
In this world the market is CHINA, INDIA, ASIA…not Canadian Milk Drinkers!
Thank you for your recognition, Kate. It is much appreciated. As I have just done over at the Shotgun, I would like readers who are adept at digging up dirt to start at the Canadian Dairy Commission and the Canadian Egg Marketing agency
websites: http://www.cdc.ca/cdc/index.asp and http://www.canadaegg.ca/bins/index.asp and dig up who the Commisars, er Chairmen are, Their remuneration, their expense claims, political donations and to whom (if that is still possible)
how large their staffs are, who doles out quotas and how it is done and see if we can determine if their total costs bear any relation to the srvices they provide to producers and consumers. Under “Audits” I found one item where the auditors found something wrong with about forty companies purchasing products from the the Dairy Commission or at least the producers and ordered over $400,000.00 returned to the producers. If they found that much of a discrepancy in one year how much have they missed or overlooked before?
Our experience with Milk board was the neighboring dairy farm.He went in to huge debt to get the quota, but if his cows had a good day and they produced too much milk it was poured down the drain,by the tankful…or the hard working farmer paid a $$ penalty.He went belly up in less than 5 years. A shame really…he had the property and initiative to get into dairy after agicultural college. He soon got the message…’hard work is not a good thing’
One of my friends whose family farmed near Beausejour had those quota problems..Milk and Eggs…..the Mom had both for household money and ended up lucky not go broke. You still have to feed them even if you can’t sell their product.
We ended up with a lot of boiler / stew-pot hens in our freezer.
Somebodies dogs had a lot of ground beef to eat!
BobWood… these ‘marketing boards’ do plenty of advertising, do they not? Librano-stacked commission and advertising agency… a recipe we already know.
Can’t get the Libranos to stop ripping you off? Stop cooking with cheese!
OMMAG you are right the competitive/comparative advantages have probably changed since the board was set up. I would love for at least the quota dispersal to change if not fade somewhat to allow others in.
Quota is a large barrier into business. But not more so than any other business that requires a big building or large tracts of land. (I myself am only 2 million from owning a grain farm.)
“The population model only works if you have everything close to the markets.”
No, population/transportation models are always relevant. While Von Thunens is centered on a city others take into account transportation costs of inputs as well as products. Labour and capital costs (including taxes). And all sorts of other stuff. A savvy investor setting up a business will tray to take as much into account when setting up a business. A wheat farm is no more likely to spring up in downtown London than a hog processor is to set up a 50 million dollar slaughter plant in Hawaii.
“50 million dollar slaughter plant in Hawaii.”
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/LM-8.pdf
HAHAHA
I dont think quotas are transferable between provinces.
to paraphase our dear comrade leader.
“da quota is da quota is da quota.”
“let the wests milk curdle in the dark”.
maryjane,
Let me get this straight. You the farmer hating, farmer despising venomous troll who sees farm subsidies as the cause from everything from global warming to cancer is now insulted that someone else used language you have used dozens of times to describe farmers? I think you need to up those meds cause your schizophrenia is acting up again.
Be nice people, after all Quebec deserves to have almost half the equalization payments,
and almost 1/2 the dairy quota, and most of the jobs in Ottawa. In return we less fortunate get the benefit of la belle provence that produces a large percentage of our Prime Ministers? Who, then in turn are fortunate enough to have a support staff that can speak fluent French and broken Anglais.
After all, this is Canada and fair is fair.
“Hawaii cannot compete in the production of grain-finished beef from the mainland USA because of the high cost of inputs here.”
And in the first paragraph FREE…. Boy you sure showed me.
oh, and here is several Canadian projects which could handle the slaughter capacity of all the Hawaii islands put together and then some…. Most process more per day then Hawaii processes in a week. And most of them are less than 10 million.
Mythality said: “After all, this is Canada and fair is fair.” …. Most people seem to confuse “fair” with “equal” these days. They do not mean the same thing.
“Hawaii cannot compete in the production of grain-finished beef from the mainland USA because of the high cost of inputs here.”
And in the first paragraph FREE…. Boy you sure showed me.
oh, and here is several Canadian projects which could handle the slaughter capacity of all the Hawaii islands put together and then some…. Most process more per day then Hawaii processes in a week. And most of them are less than 10 million.
http://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/custompages/stories_story.aspx?mid=31&id=498
Mythality said: “After all, this is Canada and fair is fair.” …. Most people seem to confuse “fair” with “equal” these days. They do not mean the same thing.
http://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/custompages/stories_story.aspx?mid=31&id=498
(sry missed link)
grossness alert !!
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so, where does cbc weigh in on the issue of milk quotas and milk production?
after all, they are the ones did the story on pus and blood in milk around late summer 2003.
which prompted me to permanently remove that frequency 93 something from my car fm radio selector buttons.
pus and blood, the old lefty refrain about unhealthy milk.
Utterly ridiculous.
Posted by: Milk Me at January 15, 2007 05:13 PM
make that ‘udderly’ ridiculous !!!
You should read the whole report, dimwit.