If it was me in the uniform I would have prefered a night stick to the taser for this little terrorist.
To me he sounded like a professional protester. He’s a victim and they are the bad abuser of power. This will be a protesters teaching manuel now.
While watching this, I was asked by my wife in the other room if I was watching Question Period in the House of Commons! I’m not suggesting we need tasers there, just more respect,as well as more respect at UCLA. Whatever happened to simple compliance to the request by a legitimate authority? This escalated way beyond what it needed to. Sad times.
I also would not have used a Tazer on this individual. There are plenty of ways to convince the human body to move even when the brain housed in it is non-compliant.
A Tazer puts the muscles into siezure thereby making it impossible for the Tazed to comply. A wrist/finger/elbow lock or applied pressure on any of a number of nerve clusters with the pressure applied in an upward direction would have achieved exactly what the officers wanted.
Having said that non comliance can not be excused. Resistance is futile.
I laughed, I just couldn’t help it. It was funny. Aaahhhhahhhha,uuhhh, hahhhhhhaaaaahhhhhhh, *gurgle*, ooahhhahahh. LOL. He could have just stood up right? Some people will do anything to get into showbiz.
From a UCLA students blog…
At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.
The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.
——————————
So, he had begun to leave, when he’s grabbed.
——————————
The student began to yell “get off me,” repeating himself several times.
——————-
Which, quite frankly, I would be saying…
——————-
It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.
——————-
Tasered, for what. He was leaving.
And he mentioned a medical condition
and further on
——————-
As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.
——————-
Threatening to taser bystanders? Who, FREE, are the terrorists here?
——————-
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.
——————
Threatening someone for…what exactly? Wanting his name and badge number?
——————
As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said “stop fighting us.” The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.
——————
If the muscles are spasming from the first tasing, would he be able to stand? And after saying he has a medical condition, why did the shoot him again?
If he had been a white conservative, would he have been asked for ID? Would the police have been called? Would he have been shot? http://www.bruinsnation.com/story/2006/11/15/175055/24
I had a dude show up at my place accompanying some broad who demanded cash she figured I owed her. I didnt.
gets to the point where Im telling the dude to get the f out of my house and he refuses.
so despite his taller stature I shove him out the door and kick him in the nuts, and remind him its all on video if he chooses to file a complaint about the fact I used force to remove a stranger from my living room.
what part of LEAVE NOW dont these people understand?
Murray Rennie: Despite the multiple accounts, what actually transpired and how exactly it transpired is not entirely clear.
As I interpret the multiple accounts, the campus cops asked him to leave after he was unable to produce campus ID…he didn’t leave. So the campus cops left and got the cops. He was still there when the cops arrived and likely only started to slouch out when he saw the real cops. I suspect that the real cops wanted NOT to evict him, but to get his ID and question him…hence they attempted to stop him from leaving. The moron then starts to resist and starts to scream. After warnings, he was tasered.
The guy should have left when the campus cops told him to. He should have stopped when the cops told him to. He didn’t so he paid the price…he deserved what he got.
If they had strong-armed him, the same outrage would have undoubtedly occurred, but with an increased potential of someone getting physically hurt (especially the cops).
Campus Cops should explain just about most of this….I doubt real police officers would have done this.
That being said….he should have stood up….
As well, Murray….how in the world could you tell if the person was “conservative”…Should non-white people never be asked to comply with a rule that white people are asked to comply with.
The guy is an idiot, whether he should have been tasered is another point all together.
Lose the ‘tude when you are in the wrong, ie no ID past 11:00
Posted by: Hassle at November 17, 2006 12:18 PM
“If they had strong-armed him, the same outrage would have undoubtedly occurred, but with an increased potential of someone getting physically hurt (especially the cops).”
Not so. Do this, take your index finger find the little hollow spot just under/to the rear of your ear lobe. Press in and up at a 45% angle toward the opposite side of the top of your head. Stop when it hurts ;-).
Training in simple come-alongs such as this is?/should be a part of any police officers arsenal. The Tazer obviously did nothing to lessen the outrage did it.
With this or some similar tactic our resident moron would have been out of the room and away long before anyone with a camera phone got close enough to film the spectacle. By the way, many come-alongs leave absolutely no bruising and certainly have no possibility of inducing a heart attack due to electrical shock.
Actually, I find Pepper Spray more entertaining than a Taser.
On the topic of whether some other method should have been used rather than a taser I’ll just point out that a taser is considered an acceptable non-lethal method of forcing compliance. That’s why the police have them.
Some of the other suggestions may be perfectly functional, but you can bet your sweet ass that if they had been employed someone would have been screaming torture.
On the topic of tasering bystanders, its perfectly legitmate to request a police officers name and badge number, but not while they are trying to subdue an unruly suspect. Once he has been subdued I would expect any police officer to comply with such a request. Failure to do so would simply make me question whether the police themselves felt they were acting reasonably.
Hassle writes: I suspect that the real cops wanted NOT to evict him, but to get his ID and question him…hence they attempted to stop him from leaving.
Not so. According to a UCLA Police Department statement, the police asked Tabatabainejad to leave ‘multiple times’ (as reported in the LA Times, “A third incident, a new video” (Nov 16)).
We’ll never know the true details of this incident; perhaps it was justified, perhaps not (my own opinion, given that Mr. Tabatabainejad was by all accounts not an imminent threat to anyone, is that it was not). Regardless, I’m uneasy with the prospect of living in a society in which simply failing (intentionally or otherwise) to obey the verbal instructions of a law enforcement officer results so quickly in being shot with a Taser gun. It is (usually) non-fatal violence, but violence nonetheless, and thus should be exercised only where the circumstances clearly warrant.
Hassle
What part of
“By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go”
Don’t you understand. This indicates he was leaving. At least it does to me. Maybe it means something else to you.
So after saying he had a medical condition, he deserved to be tasered…twice. The second time, of course, while his muscles were probably twitching from being tasered the first time.
And tasering is not strong-arming? And why do you avoid the statements where the cops threatened to taser bystanders?
As for your ” likely only started to slouch out when he saw the real cops”… the blog states…
“police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack”
By the time the cops got there, the student was already leaving. By the sounds of it, he was leaving BEFORE the cops were visible.
Why did the cops overreact so much?
Stephen
Yes, one cannot tell a “conservative” by looking at them (of couse a suit may be a good indication). Leaving that off, if he were white, would he have been hassled or tasered? Especially the tasering bit.
Tasers work because they require little skill to use, you need little training to run them and they get the job done. Pressure points, Nerve cluters, and joint manipulation work fine, IF your protestor isn’t too motivated to stay and if you are well trained in using them. (In my opinion too many police try to use these methods and get their A**’s handed to them as a result.)
The police did the right thing. Remember the police do not show up assuming there is a peace loving misunderstood loving human being to deal with, they assume there is a problem that could get uglier. That is what they see and expect to see every day.
When a policman says stand up or sit down, do it. It will make both your and their day better, and you may avoid getting lit up like a X-mass tree. Trust me a taser is much easier to recover from than a good old fashioned beating.
Seems pretty straightforward. Checking ID after a certain time is a security measure obviously identitified as important by the University. If this “student” had commited a crime, would the same people not be blaming campus security for not doing their jobs?
The debate over the use of tasers can be had, but the bottom line is that a non-lethal method was used to subdue a suspect. If it were up to me, dude in the white T-shirt would have received a jolt as well, along with a citation for obstruction of justice.
HiMe nailed it.
Actually, I find Pepper Spray more entertaining than a Taser.
Posted by: Hi Me at November 17, 2006 01:22 PM
========
One shot of bear spray and this whole entertainment would never have developed. = TG
Moose Javian asks, “Whatever happened to simple compliance to the request by a legitimate authority?”
Well, Moose, it’s been shot to H*ll, starting in a lot of North American homes, where as it happens in many cases no one’s home, and continuing into the schools. Too many parents and school principals and teachers have abdicated their authority, so there are a lot of North American kids out there who have no idea what “legitimate authority” is.
ANY authority, as far as they’re concerned, is illegitimate: “Hey, nobody tells me what to do, any time, any place.” This attitude has been aided and abetted by “children’s rights” advocates and by a lot of television, music videos (Much Music), and video games, and by a lot of these kids having no parents at home to make them toe the line.
What bothered me just as much as the moron who wouldn’t stand up was the other students taking his side against the campus and city police. That’s “peer orientation,” where one’s peers take precedence over everything else: “He’s gotta be right, because he’s ‘one of us.'” Adults, or “legitimate authority,” don’t count in this mindset; they often don’t even “hear” an adult voice, or as soon as they do, they tune it out.
Scary.
Murray Rennie: I’m sure the police wanted to talk to this young man who was in the library without an ID card. And why shouldn’t they? They would have been negligent if they hadn’t stopped him on his way out. You think that just because he was leaving, they should have left him alone? You’re on his side?
What daycare did you attend?
“Tabatabainejad”, huh ???
Any kin to Almadinejad ?
“been around the block”—heh
Murray Rennie: I’m sure the police wanted to talk to this young man who was in the library without an ID card. And why shouldn’t they? They would have been negligent if they hadn’t stopped him on his way out. You think that just because he was leaving, they should have left him alone? You’re on his side?
——————–
Grabbing him as he was leaving (leaving aside the question as to why he was targetsed in the first place)…tasering him….hearing he has a medical problem…tasering him while he’s down and unable to get up…threatening bystanders with tasering?
This sounds like a standard ID check?
What daycare did you attend??
Murray Rennie: Your retort to MY response does not in the least refute anything I said. He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up. Try reading for understanding sometimes.
Besides, you are basing your rant on only one account, not the multiple accounts in the article.
Zip: Point taken, but in order to apply pressure to the spot behind the ear, the cop has to be within arm’s reach of the “bad guy”…that means the “bad guy” is ALSO within arm’s reach of the cops. So, yes, there are other methods that could be used, but the cops could be struck or knifed while trying to use the alternate method. It’s safer to Taser or pepper spray from more than an arm’s reach away.
As much as I enjoyed watching that, there is really NO excuse for tazering a handcuffed suspect, just like there’d be no excuse for using a club, or kicking, or punching, or any such violent act. Some of you have claimed that using physical force could have resulted in the officers being injured, but with a handcuffed suspect that’s simply not the case. I have absolutely zero sympathy for the perp – he’s an idiot and deserves what he got – but those cops WERE out of line.
One of the posters here has already pointed out a pressure point which could have been used. There’s a (in my opinion) much better little nerve cluster right behind and underneath your jawbone. Whenever I’ve had to move a handcuffed, resisting suspect in the past, I’ve always used that. Simply place the outside fingers of the left hand on the side of the head, and hook the thumb under the jawbone. Grasp his arms, or the back of his shirt, with your right hand. Now simultaneously pull up with your right hand and press in with your left thumb. He’ll come up like a friggin’ jack-in-the-box.
The thing that most struck me is the bystander students did nothing to encourage the student in question to simply cooperate with the police. Man those are the kind of friends I want! Rather than try to persuade me to do the right thing I want the cops to have to resort to extraordinary measures in dealing with me just so my bozo friends can then denigrate the cops about the way they deal with my ignorant behavior.
I counted at least 100 “stand up” orders. This whole thing would have ended with the dude standing up and cooperating with the police. Thank god we have the ACLU there to advocate for idiots. Only other idiots would do that.
Good thing this guy wasn’t there!
“A clumsy New Zealand policeman attending a domestic dispute accidentally shot himself and a teenager with a stun gun before pepper-spraying an innocent woman, reports said on Friday.
The constable was loading his weapon when he accidentally blasted himself with the stun gun’s 50,000 volts while trying to stun a man at the centre of the incident last month, the New Zealand Herald reports.
Another shot hit the man’s 16-year-old son.
After five attempts to hit the man, the officer eventually used pepper spray, but succeeded only in hitting the man’s 21-year-old daughter – an unintended target.
The wanted man eventually gave himself up.”
The cop should have just shot him with a real gun. At least the screaming would have subsided and then someone would arrive and calmly carry the guy out…
Tazered for not showing ID and some you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.
It’s comment threads like this that make me wonder why I consider myself part of the political right in this country. Maybe I’ll just stay home next election for the first time in 30 years of voting. If voting Conservative means I’ll get lumped in with you lot, I’d just as soon not vote.
Tazered for not showing ID and some of you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.
It’s comment threads like this that make me wonder why I consider myself part of the political right in this country. Maybe I’ll just stay home next election for the first time in 30 years of voting. If voting Conservative means I’ll get lumped in with you lot, I’d just as soon not vote.
hoooeeee! That dope smoking barber starver got himself tasered good. Bet he had tofu stains all over his shorts!!
Although I may not like the way leftoid liberal kooks vote, you gotta admit they are damn entertaining! They can sing, dance, scream and act like total morons.
I found this video fairly funny, but I think it would have been way better if the dude running the camera would have been an actual nerdling from the audio visual club or something. And to be honest…I have a feeling that the cops should have kept tasering the dude till they had to recharge the batteries. Some pepper spray at the little weasel asking for badge id etc would have added to the overall cinematic appeal as well.
All these clowns that do the pie in the face, etc think that they can do as they please with no repercussions. Just like the little cry baby that pied Klein. These DUDES think they’re hot sh#$T until it’s time to pay the piper. Then they’re astonished that they are being held accountable for their actions.
This will make all security guards etc second guess themselves and be more inclined to let something like this slide next time. And maybe, just maybe…that was the purpose of this whole exercise.
“Tazered for not showing ID and some of you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.”
Last name? Please. That race card garbage (or religion card in this case) doesn’t go far here. Personally I can think of quite a few white kids that would have ended up getting the exact same treatment if the cops on the scene hadn’t had a bit more restraint. He deserves it because he’s a moron, not because he’s Muslim.
His last name was mentioned as justification, but let’s ignore that and I’ll retract that part of my comment.
The reaction here is still _ing pathetic. Yours included, Alex.
johnboy: “And to be honest…I have a feeling that the cops should have kept tasering the dude till they had to recharge the batteries. Some pepper spray at the little weasel asking for badge id etc would have added to the overall cinematic appeal as well.”
Well, aren’t you just the poster child for mouthbreathers everywhere?
Boy, if I want your lip, I’ll rattle my zipper.
And all this happened in a LIBRARY.
Not in the Capital Building or the White House.
Not in a munitions factory.
Not in a nuclear power plant.
Not in …. well, you get the idea.
Gee, maybe people are finally starting to get serious about security?!
It’s about time.
‘Don’t know where you popped up from, djb, but you’re out of line, as Alex pointed out, for playing the race card. NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE even mentioned the guy’s name or implied that he “deserved it” because he was a Muslim.
What were the police supposed to do? Because he is a Muslim, do nothing? Treat him with kid gloves? Not tell him to stand up? Let him walk out of the library and not look into why he didn’t have an ID card with him?
If anything, this guy gives Muslims a really “bad name” by behaving like an entitled idiot. Too bad he did that. But if the kid’s name had been Jack Smith, I’d have said the police did exactly what they needed to do.
And resisting a police officer is an offence. Period. Whether you’re Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, atheist, whatever.
BATB writes: NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE even mentioned the guy’s name or implied that he “deserved it” because he was a Muslim.
How about Ratt, who wrote (Nov 17, 04:52 PM): “Tabatabainejad”, huh ??? Any kin to Almadinejad ?
FREE’s comment is also open to interpretation (Nov 17, 10:31 AM): If it was me in the uniform I would have prefered a night stick to the taser for this little terrorist.
Hassle: He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up.
As I noted earlier, the UCLA Police Department statement on the incident notes that officers asked Tabatabainejad to leave ‘multiple times.’ So, the cops were also interested in him vacating the premises, not to detain him inside the library for questioning. So, yes, there are other methods that could be used, but the cops could be struck or knifed while trying to use the alternate method. It’s safer to Taser or pepper spray from more than an arm’s reach away.
True, except in this incident, the taser was set on ‘drive stun’ mode, which requires the officer to jab the weapon directly onto the subject, rather than shoot those little wired projectiles from a safer distance. So, being within an arm’s reach of the UCLA kid evidently wasn’t a concern for officers in this case.
OK, A, there was ONE comment out of 36 that named the young man, and FREE used his right of free speech which, last time I looked, was still one of our rights in Canada, to be, shall we say, a little colourful, and that justifies djb’s first comment, “Because of his last name?” and then, “The reaction here is still _ing pathetic”?
I repeat, my main concern here is the utter disdain, disregard, contempt of a young person asked by legitimate authorities to stand up, when that would have been the instruction to anyone in his situation, regardless of their race, nationality, gender, or colour.
The young man’s reaction was stunningly over the top. He decided he was going to make as much a spectacle of himself as he could, while resisting arrest, and had probably already figured out that because he is Muslim, his community could make a big fuss about his civil disobedience and turn it back on the police.
I’m getting sick of our law enforcement officers being put in the dock instead of the person breaking the law. This kid BROKE THE LAW, for crying out loud. He was resisting arrest. That’s the beginning and the end of it. He had no ID; he was asked to show ID; he wouldn’t leave when asked to leave, for the security of the other students, and then when the police tried to apprehend him–obviously the next step when dealing with this kind of thing–he wouldn’t co-operate.
WELL, EXCUSE ME. He deserves no sympathy. He brought this on himself and is now hiding behind his multicultural tag. ‘Enough to make you sick, just like the people who are trying to justify his behaviour.
Clockwork Orange anyone? It’s on it’s way like a speeding bullet.
Murray Rennie: Your retort to MY response does not in the least refute anything I said. He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up. Try reading for understanding sometimes.
—————————-
Hasle, I suggest you take your own advice sometime.
You SPECULATED that when he saw the police, he started to leave. The source I quoted indicated he was already one his way out when they arrived.
Do try to read.
—————————-
Besides, you are basing your rant on only one account, not the multiple accounts in the article.
—————————-
Yes. But my other sources are “left-lib”…blogs and “left-lib media”. You wouldn’t want to hear from those, would’ya?
Humour me:
What does UCLA stand for?
What does ACLU stand for?
The site is arrogant assuming everyone knows.
If it was me in the uniform I would have prefered a night stick to the taser for this little terrorist.
To me he sounded like a professional protester. He’s a victim and they are the bad abuser of power. This will be a protesters teaching manuel now.
While watching this, I was asked by my wife in the other room if I was watching Question Period in the House of Commons! I’m not suggesting we need tasers there, just more respect,as well as more respect at UCLA. Whatever happened to simple compliance to the request by a legitimate authority? This escalated way beyond what it needed to. Sad times.
I also would not have used a Tazer on this individual. There are plenty of ways to convince the human body to move even when the brain housed in it is non-compliant.
A Tazer puts the muscles into siezure thereby making it impossible for the Tazed to comply. A wrist/finger/elbow lock or applied pressure on any of a number of nerve clusters with the pressure applied in an upward direction would have achieved exactly what the officers wanted.
Having said that non comliance can not be excused. Resistance is futile.
I laughed, I just couldn’t help it. It was funny. Aaahhhhahhhha,uuhhh, hahhhhhhaaaaahhhhhhh, *gurgle*, ooahhhahahh. LOL. He could have just stood up right? Some people will do anything to get into showbiz.
From a UCLA students blog…
At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.
The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.
——————————
So, he had begun to leave, when he’s grabbed.
——————————
The student began to yell “get off me,” repeating himself several times.
——————-
Which, quite frankly, I would be saying…
——————-
It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.
——————-
Tasered, for what. He was leaving.
And he mentioned a medical condition
and further on
——————-
As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.
——————-
Threatening to taser bystanders? Who, FREE, are the terrorists here?
——————-
Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.
——————
Threatening someone for…what exactly? Wanting his name and badge number?
——————
As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said “stop fighting us.” The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.
——————
If the muscles are spasming from the first tasing, would he be able to stand? And after saying he has a medical condition, why did the shoot him again?
If he had been a white conservative, would he have been asked for ID? Would the police have been called? Would he have been shot?
http://www.bruinsnation.com/story/2006/11/15/175055/24
I had a dude show up at my place accompanying some broad who demanded cash she figured I owed her. I didnt.
gets to the point where Im telling the dude to get the f out of my house and he refuses.
so despite his taller stature I shove him out the door and kick him in the nuts, and remind him its all on video if he chooses to file a complaint about the fact I used force to remove a stranger from my living room.
what part of LEAVE NOW dont these people understand?
Murray Rennie: Despite the multiple accounts, what actually transpired and how exactly it transpired is not entirely clear.
As I interpret the multiple accounts, the campus cops asked him to leave after he was unable to produce campus ID…he didn’t leave. So the campus cops left and got the cops. He was still there when the cops arrived and likely only started to slouch out when he saw the real cops. I suspect that the real cops wanted NOT to evict him, but to get his ID and question him…hence they attempted to stop him from leaving. The moron then starts to resist and starts to scream. After warnings, he was tasered.
The guy should have left when the campus cops told him to. He should have stopped when the cops told him to. He didn’t so he paid the price…he deserved what he got.
If they had strong-armed him, the same outrage would have undoubtedly occurred, but with an increased potential of someone getting physically hurt (especially the cops).
Campus Cops should explain just about most of this….I doubt real police officers would have done this.
That being said….he should have stood up….
As well, Murray….how in the world could you tell if the person was “conservative”…Should non-white people never be asked to comply with a rule that white people are asked to comply with.
The guy is an idiot, whether he should have been tasered is another point all together.
Lose the ‘tude when you are in the wrong, ie no ID past 11:00
Posted by: Hassle at November 17, 2006 12:18 PM
“If they had strong-armed him, the same outrage would have undoubtedly occurred, but with an increased potential of someone getting physically hurt (especially the cops).”
Not so. Do this, take your index finger find the little hollow spot just under/to the rear of your ear lobe. Press in and up at a 45% angle toward the opposite side of the top of your head. Stop when it hurts ;-).
Training in simple come-alongs such as this is?/should be a part of any police officers arsenal. The Tazer obviously did nothing to lessen the outrage did it.
With this or some similar tactic our resident moron would have been out of the room and away long before anyone with a camera phone got close enough to film the spectacle. By the way, many come-alongs leave absolutely no bruising and certainly have no possibility of inducing a heart attack due to electrical shock.
Actually, I find Pepper Spray more entertaining than a Taser.
On the topic of whether some other method should have been used rather than a taser I’ll just point out that a taser is considered an acceptable non-lethal method of forcing compliance. That’s why the police have them.
Some of the other suggestions may be perfectly functional, but you can bet your sweet ass that if they had been employed someone would have been screaming torture.
On the topic of tasering bystanders, its perfectly legitmate to request a police officers name and badge number, but not while they are trying to subdue an unruly suspect. Once he has been subdued I would expect any police officer to comply with such a request. Failure to do so would simply make me question whether the police themselves felt they were acting reasonably.
Hassle writes: I suspect that the real cops wanted NOT to evict him, but to get his ID and question him…hence they attempted to stop him from leaving.
Not so. According to a UCLA Police Department statement, the police asked Tabatabainejad to leave ‘multiple times’ (as reported in the LA Times, “A third incident, a new video” (Nov 16)).
We’ll never know the true details of this incident; perhaps it was justified, perhaps not (my own opinion, given that Mr. Tabatabainejad was by all accounts not an imminent threat to anyone, is that it was not). Regardless, I’m uneasy with the prospect of living in a society in which simply failing (intentionally or otherwise) to obey the verbal instructions of a law enforcement officer results so quickly in being shot with a Taser gun. It is (usually) non-fatal violence, but violence nonetheless, and thus should be exercised only where the circumstances clearly warrant.
Hassle
What part of
“By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go”
Don’t you understand. This indicates he was leaving. At least it does to me. Maybe it means something else to you.
So after saying he had a medical condition, he deserved to be tasered…twice. The second time, of course, while his muscles were probably twitching from being tasered the first time.
And tasering is not strong-arming? And why do you avoid the statements where the cops threatened to taser bystanders?
As for your ” likely only started to slouch out when he saw the real cops”… the blog states…
“police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack”
By the time the cops got there, the student was already leaving. By the sounds of it, he was leaving BEFORE the cops were visible.
Why did the cops overreact so much?
Stephen
Yes, one cannot tell a “conservative” by looking at them (of couse a suit may be a good indication). Leaving that off, if he were white, would he have been hassled or tasered? Especially the tasering bit.
Tasers work because they require little skill to use, you need little training to run them and they get the job done. Pressure points, Nerve cluters, and joint manipulation work fine, IF your protestor isn’t too motivated to stay and if you are well trained in using them. (In my opinion too many police try to use these methods and get their A**’s handed to them as a result.)
The police did the right thing. Remember the police do not show up assuming there is a peace loving misunderstood loving human being to deal with, they assume there is a problem that could get uglier. That is what they see and expect to see every day.
When a policman says stand up or sit down, do it. It will make both your and their day better, and you may avoid getting lit up like a X-mass tree. Trust me a taser is much easier to recover from than a good old fashioned beating.
Seems pretty straightforward. Checking ID after a certain time is a security measure obviously identitified as important by the University. If this “student” had commited a crime, would the same people not be blaming campus security for not doing their jobs?
The debate over the use of tasers can be had, but the bottom line is that a non-lethal method was used to subdue a suspect. If it were up to me, dude in the white T-shirt would have received a jolt as well, along with a citation for obstruction of justice.
HiMe nailed it.
Actually, I find Pepper Spray more entertaining than a Taser.
Posted by: Hi Me at November 17, 2006 01:22 PM
========
One shot of bear spray and this whole entertainment would never have developed. = TG
Moose Javian asks, “Whatever happened to simple compliance to the request by a legitimate authority?”
Well, Moose, it’s been shot to H*ll, starting in a lot of North American homes, where as it happens in many cases no one’s home, and continuing into the schools. Too many parents and school principals and teachers have abdicated their authority, so there are a lot of North American kids out there who have no idea what “legitimate authority” is.
ANY authority, as far as they’re concerned, is illegitimate: “Hey, nobody tells me what to do, any time, any place.” This attitude has been aided and abetted by “children’s rights” advocates and by a lot of television, music videos (Much Music), and video games, and by a lot of these kids having no parents at home to make them toe the line.
What bothered me just as much as the moron who wouldn’t stand up was the other students taking his side against the campus and city police. That’s “peer orientation,” where one’s peers take precedence over everything else: “He’s gotta be right, because he’s ‘one of us.'” Adults, or “legitimate authority,” don’t count in this mindset; they often don’t even “hear” an adult voice, or as soon as they do, they tune it out.
Scary.
Murray Rennie: I’m sure the police wanted to talk to this young man who was in the library without an ID card. And why shouldn’t they? They would have been negligent if they hadn’t stopped him on his way out. You think that just because he was leaving, they should have left him alone? You’re on his side?
What daycare did you attend?
“Tabatabainejad”, huh ???
Any kin to Almadinejad ?
“been around the block”—heh
Murray Rennie: I’m sure the police wanted to talk to this young man who was in the library without an ID card. And why shouldn’t they? They would have been negligent if they hadn’t stopped him on his way out. You think that just because he was leaving, they should have left him alone? You’re on his side?
——————–
Grabbing him as he was leaving (leaving aside the question as to why he was targetsed in the first place)…tasering him….hearing he has a medical problem…tasering him while he’s down and unable to get up…threatening bystanders with tasering?
This sounds like a standard ID check?
What daycare did you attend??
Murray Rennie: Your retort to MY response does not in the least refute anything I said. He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up. Try reading for understanding sometimes.
Besides, you are basing your rant on only one account, not the multiple accounts in the article.
Zip: Point taken, but in order to apply pressure to the spot behind the ear, the cop has to be within arm’s reach of the “bad guy”…that means the “bad guy” is ALSO within arm’s reach of the cops. So, yes, there are other methods that could be used, but the cops could be struck or knifed while trying to use the alternate method. It’s safer to Taser or pepper spray from more than an arm’s reach away.
As much as I enjoyed watching that, there is really NO excuse for tazering a handcuffed suspect, just like there’d be no excuse for using a club, or kicking, or punching, or any such violent act. Some of you have claimed that using physical force could have resulted in the officers being injured, but with a handcuffed suspect that’s simply not the case. I have absolutely zero sympathy for the perp – he’s an idiot and deserves what he got – but those cops WERE out of line.
One of the posters here has already pointed out a pressure point which could have been used. There’s a (in my opinion) much better little nerve cluster right behind and underneath your jawbone. Whenever I’ve had to move a handcuffed, resisting suspect in the past, I’ve always used that. Simply place the outside fingers of the left hand on the side of the head, and hook the thumb under the jawbone. Grasp his arms, or the back of his shirt, with your right hand. Now simultaneously pull up with your right hand and press in with your left thumb. He’ll come up like a friggin’ jack-in-the-box.
The thing that most struck me is the bystander students did nothing to encourage the student in question to simply cooperate with the police. Man those are the kind of friends I want! Rather than try to persuade me to do the right thing I want the cops to have to resort to extraordinary measures in dealing with me just so my bozo friends can then denigrate the cops about the way they deal with my ignorant behavior.
I counted at least 100 “stand up” orders. This whole thing would have ended with the dude standing up and cooperating with the police. Thank god we have the ACLU there to advocate for idiots. Only other idiots would do that.
Good thing this guy wasn’t there!
“A clumsy New Zealand policeman attending a domestic dispute accidentally shot himself and a teenager with a stun gun before pepper-spraying an innocent woman, reports said on Friday.
The constable was loading his weapon when he accidentally blasted himself with the stun gun’s 50,000 volts while trying to stun a man at the centre of the incident last month, the New Zealand Herald reports.
Another shot hit the man’s 16-year-old son.
After five attempts to hit the man, the officer eventually used pepper spray, but succeeded only in hitting the man’s 21-year-old daughter – an unintended target.
The wanted man eventually gave himself up.”
The cop should have just shot him with a real gun. At least the screaming would have subsided and then someone would arrive and calmly carry the guy out…
Tazered for not showing ID and some you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.
It’s comment threads like this that make me wonder why I consider myself part of the political right in this country. Maybe I’ll just stay home next election for the first time in 30 years of voting. If voting Conservative means I’ll get lumped in with you lot, I’d just as soon not vote.
Tazered for not showing ID and some of you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.
It’s comment threads like this that make me wonder why I consider myself part of the political right in this country. Maybe I’ll just stay home next election for the first time in 30 years of voting. If voting Conservative means I’ll get lumped in with you lot, I’d just as soon not vote.
hoooeeee! That dope smoking barber starver got himself tasered good. Bet he had tofu stains all over his shorts!!
Although I may not like the way leftoid liberal kooks vote, you gotta admit they are damn entertaining! They can sing, dance, scream and act like total morons.
I found this video fairly funny, but I think it would have been way better if the dude running the camera would have been an actual nerdling from the audio visual club or something. And to be honest…I have a feeling that the cops should have kept tasering the dude till they had to recharge the batteries. Some pepper spray at the little weasel asking for badge id etc would have added to the overall cinematic appeal as well.
All these clowns that do the pie in the face, etc think that they can do as they please with no repercussions. Just like the little cry baby that pied Klein. These DUDES think they’re hot sh#$T until it’s time to pay the piper. Then they’re astonished that they are being held accountable for their actions.
This will make all security guards etc second guess themselves and be more inclined to let something like this slide next time. And maybe, just maybe…that was the purpose of this whole exercise.
“Tazered for not showing ID and some of you laugh? Others think he deserved it? Because of his last name? Pathetic. Utterly Pathetic.”
Last name? Please. That race card garbage (or religion card in this case) doesn’t go far here. Personally I can think of quite a few white kids that would have ended up getting the exact same treatment if the cops on the scene hadn’t had a bit more restraint. He deserves it because he’s a moron, not because he’s Muslim.
His last name was mentioned as justification, but let’s ignore that and I’ll retract that part of my comment.
The reaction here is still _ing pathetic. Yours included, Alex.
johnboy: “And to be honest…I have a feeling that the cops should have kept tasering the dude till they had to recharge the batteries. Some pepper spray at the little weasel asking for badge id etc would have added to the overall cinematic appeal as well.”
Well, aren’t you just the poster child for mouthbreathers everywhere?
Boy, if I want your lip, I’ll rattle my zipper.
And all this happened in a LIBRARY.
Not in the Capital Building or the White House.
Not in a munitions factory.
Not in a nuclear power plant.
Not in …. well, you get the idea.
Gee, maybe people are finally starting to get serious about security?!
It’s about time.
‘Don’t know where you popped up from, djb, but you’re out of line, as Alex pointed out, for playing the race card. NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE even mentioned the guy’s name or implied that he “deserved it” because he was a Muslim.
What were the police supposed to do? Because he is a Muslim, do nothing? Treat him with kid gloves? Not tell him to stand up? Let him walk out of the library and not look into why he didn’t have an ID card with him?
If anything, this guy gives Muslims a really “bad name” by behaving like an entitled idiot. Too bad he did that. But if the kid’s name had been Jack Smith, I’d have said the police did exactly what they needed to do.
And resisting a police officer is an offence. Period. Whether you’re Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh, atheist, whatever.
BATB writes: NO ONE, I repeat, NO ONE even mentioned the guy’s name or implied that he “deserved it” because he was a Muslim.
How about Ratt, who wrote (Nov 17, 04:52 PM):
“Tabatabainejad”, huh ??? Any kin to Almadinejad ?
FREE’s comment is also open to interpretation (Nov 17, 10:31 AM):
If it was me in the uniform I would have prefered a night stick to the taser for this little terrorist.
Hassle: He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up.
As I noted earlier, the UCLA Police Department statement on the incident notes that officers asked Tabatabainejad to leave ‘multiple times.’ So, the cops were also interested in him vacating the premises, not to detain him inside the library for questioning.
So, yes, there are other methods that could be used, but the cops could be struck or knifed while trying to use the alternate method. It’s safer to Taser or pepper spray from more than an arm’s reach away.
True, except in this incident, the taser was set on ‘drive stun’ mode, which requires the officer to jab the weapon directly onto the subject, rather than shoot those little wired projectiles from a safer distance. So, being within an arm’s reach of the UCLA kid evidently wasn’t a concern for officers in this case.
OK, A, there was ONE comment out of 36 that named the young man, and FREE used his right of free speech which, last time I looked, was still one of our rights in Canada, to be, shall we say, a little colourful, and that justifies djb’s first comment, “Because of his last name?” and then, “The reaction here is still _ing pathetic”?
I repeat, my main concern here is the utter disdain, disregard, contempt of a young person asked by legitimate authorities to stand up, when that would have been the instruction to anyone in his situation, regardless of their race, nationality, gender, or colour.
The young man’s reaction was stunningly over the top. He decided he was going to make as much a spectacle of himself as he could, while resisting arrest, and had probably already figured out that because he is Muslim, his community could make a big fuss about his civil disobedience and turn it back on the police.
I’m getting sick of our law enforcement officers being put in the dock instead of the person breaking the law. This kid BROKE THE LAW, for crying out loud. He was resisting arrest. That’s the beginning and the end of it. He had no ID; he was asked to show ID; he wouldn’t leave when asked to leave, for the security of the other students, and then when the police tried to apprehend him–obviously the next step when dealing with this kind of thing–he wouldn’t co-operate.
WELL, EXCUSE ME. He deserves no sympathy. He brought this on himself and is now hiding behind his multicultural tag. ‘Enough to make you sick, just like the people who are trying to justify his behaviour.
Clockwork Orange anyone? It’s on it’s way like a speeding bullet.
Murray Rennie: Your retort to MY response does not in the least refute anything I said. He was asked to leave by the campus cops and didn’t, so the campus cops LEFT and got the real cops (that would have taken a few minutes). He was STARTING to leave when the real cops grabbed his arm…that was what I said, except I SUGGESTED he likely only STARTED to leave when he saw the real cops show up. Try reading for understanding sometimes.
—————————-
Hasle, I suggest you take your own advice sometime.
You SPECULATED that when he saw the police, he started to leave. The source I quoted indicated he was already one his way out when they arrived.
Do try to read.
—————————-
Besides, you are basing your rant on only one account, not the multiple accounts in the article.
—————————-
Yes. But my other sources are “left-lib”…blogs and “left-lib media”. You wouldn’t want to hear from those, would’ya?
Humour me:
What does UCLA stand for?
What does ACLU stand for?
The site is arrogant assuming everyone knows.