He’s been granted a new trial on his hate crime conviction. No link yet, (Via Rawlco reporter Mervin Brass talking to Charles Adler).
He’s been granted a new trial on his hate crime conviction. No link yet, (Via Rawlco reporter Mervin Brass talking to Charles Adler).
Imagine the uproar if he had made those comments about Muslims in Toronto this week.
The Liberal state apparatus is alive and well in Canada. The Libranoapparatchiks remain in place.
How else does one explain this?
Like I’ve said before, in Canada, according to the bizarre leftist ideology, it’s ok for Aboriginals to be racists…
Anyone wanna bet he’ll get off scot free?
Unlike Ernst Zundel, that is…
Yes, it’s morning in Canada, but there are still many dark grey clouds in the sky… don’t plan on going to the beach just yet…
Free speech! We must all demand it!
This hate law shit is just that.
I should be able to say what I want when and where I want.
Speaking of free speech: FINALLY someone slaps a lawsuit on somebody for being accused of an -ism, in this case sexism:
“Margaret-Ann Blaney is a hypocrite when it comes to women’s issues, says the Liberal MLA who is suing the Conservative legislator for slander.
Mike Murphy filed the suit against Blaney on Wednesday after she accused him of making a sexist remark.
Murphy used the term “weather girl” in a discussion about the transportation budget during question period last Friday. Outside the legislature, Blaney told reporters Murphy had used the term in a way that was offensive to women.
Murphy said he never intended the term as derogatory, and immediately slapped Blaney with a slander suit.”
http://www.cbc.ca/nb/story/nb-blaneysuit20060608.html
I don’t see why more people don’t do this. It would seem to me that given our reverse onus/”truth is no defense” libel laws here in Canada it would not be difficult to sue the fear of God into somebody for calling you a racist, or sexist.
I had problems with the fact that charges were laid.
If what Ahenakew said was hate speech, then what do you say about any number of mainstream media guests who say very nearly the same thing about “Americans”?
He wasn’t advocating violence, only saying stupid things.
Denounced, condemned, fired – yes.
Apprehended by the state – no.
This should be a slam dunk for the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court if it comes to that. I am curious to know though, which statements count more. Is it the drivel that he spewed during his speech to other natives or those made in the interview. (You know. The one he granted but didn’t know was an interview, recorded by a tape recorder that was hidden in front of his face.)
This is good, as far as I’m concerned. The proper response to racism is to expose it to the public. Everyone knows what kind of person he is now, and he lost his Order of Canada.
“Denounced, condemned, fired – yes…”
Exactly. Take away his shiny little Order of Canada badge (do we really think pond scum like him represent the best of our country?) and then let him rot away into well-deserved insignificance.
He’s a creep. His statements were dispicable. But, the best court to try him him is the court of public opinion. When you open the Pandora’s Box of prosecuting hate speech(who gets to define it?), so vigorously loved by the left as part of their pc enforcement, democracy loses.
This reminds me that the Liberals passed a bill making it a crime to say anything unkind about (cough)… ahem… sexual minorities… punishable, even, by imprisonment.
Besides, didn’t Ahenakew praise the Holocaust? Isn’t that illegal to do?
We deported Zundel to face trial in Germany. Why let the other guy off? Losing a medal might not bother him a bit.
Just asking for consistency here.
We should have a one-tier justice system.
Stealing someones right to say as they wish is justice? I dont agree with the guy but I stand 100% behind his right to say whatever he damn well pleases.
Sentinel….He won the appeal of his conviction. What aspect of due process don’t you understand.
I agree completely with Kate. The state has no business interfering with his free speech. He wasn’t preaching akin to a non-disputable religious dogma. He was stating his opinion, and that is the right of every individual in a free society. No charges should have been laid.
Again, we have not only the MSM saying this kind of thing about Americans, but, we have bloggers saying these kind of things about many, many ‘Others’, from ‘the Evil people in Ontario, to Bush, to Torontonians, to Harper, to etc, etc.
Whether we like the opinion or not, it’s irrelevant. It’s open to debate, to question, to rebuttal. He should never have been charged.
He should be granted an appeal. However, it will fail due to a poor defense team.
Ahenakew made the first of his anti-Semitic comments in December 2002 during a fiery, profanity-laced speech he gave at a Federation of Saskatchewan Indian Nations conference. In that speech, he accused Jews of starting the Second World War.
He went further in a tape-recorded interview with a newspaper reporter from the Saskatoon StarPhoenix, who approached Ahenakew after the speech.
“The Jews damn near owned all of Germany prior to the war. That’s how Hitler came in. He was going to make damn sure that the Jews didn’t take over Germany or Europe,” Ahenakew said on the tape.
“That’s why he fried six million of those guys, you know. Jews would have owned the God-damned world. And look what they’re doing. They’re killing people in Arab countries.”
This is an insidious personal view but, in my opinion, does not meet the criteria for a hate crime –
CC 319.(1)Public Incitement of Hatred- Everyone who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of .., (I’m assuming that this is the section that he was convicted under)
Ahenakew believed that the extermination of 6 million Jews by the Nazi’s was justified because, according to him, they “Damn near owned all of Europe prior to the 2nd World War . Well, that is pure unadulterated spiteful hatred, but I’m not aware that there is a law against hating, per se. He simply did not, as a result of his beliefs, encourage anyone to go out and attack Jewish people. As for calling the Jewish people in the current era a Disease , that is logically consequent to his personal reading of history. Still, no incitement to attack the Jewish community.
However, Akenakew’s appeal will be lost because his defense team is putting forth untenable grounds for his acquital. Akhenahew’s was in no way a private conversation under even the most strigent dissembling of semiotics.
free speech in canada…what a joke. just as bad as “innocent till proven guilty”, when the exact opposite is the case.
he should lose his order of canada and whatever titles he holds or held, but he should not be charged with promoting hatred or whatever it is. i don’t agree with what he said, and i think he showed poor judgement for saying those things but i thought everyone in this country has a right to their own opinions and to free speech.
Harper should take this opportunity to repeal the law criminalizing “hate” speech. Defining hate to a precise legal standard is impossible, and the law only criminalizes speech targetted against a few politically correct sacred cows rather than all hate speech.
Then he should eliminate the Order of Canada, awarded more for political reasons than for merit.
While I think that Ahenakew’s comments are at the very least grossly offensive, do they constitute a hate crime? I would say no,but this whole incident did bring him condemnation in the court of public opinion..Stripped of his Order of Canada…removed from the FSIN….and exposed as the narrow minded old windbag that he is. So to play devil’s advocate do some white folk get to run around and say things like “its too bad General Custer didnt finish the job” without fear of prosecution?
There should only be laws against direct incitement to violence. With hate crimes, when you punish people MORE because of their attitude toward the victim you are criminalizing thought, never a good idea. When you punish offenders MORE because a victim is a member of an official identity group, you value some victims higher than others. Another bad idea. When you criminalize someone for expresing negative opinions which may make other people have negative opinions you are punishing someone for have a thought that might change someone else’s thoughts. Even worse idea.
The law should never have been on the books. He should never have been charged. Let him put his drunken and vile stupidity freely on parade, let his filthy idea-germs die from direct sunlight.
And though I am an unabashed and solid Israel supporter I would also argue that Holocaust Denial should not be banned. How can we deny spurious claims of “Islamophobia” when we put people in jail for denying the Holocaust.
Our fear of expressing extreme disapproval of islamism feeds the terror-teaching imams. How can we expect moderate muslims (and oh yes, they’re out there!) to speak out if we ourselves are afraid to speak.
Rescind all hate laws. Let us never be afraid to express an opinion!
Finally, ban victim impact statements in the courts. Punishment should never depend on the theatrical performance of the friends and family of the victim. That too is an insidious form of injustice.
I think that Akhenakew’s defence team would do better to base their appeal on the Constitution Act; Part 1 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms – Guarantee of Rights and Freedoms –
Fundamental Freedoms –
(2) Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion, and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
I think that this section of the Constitution Act protects the personal opinions and beliefs of all Canadians sufficiently from CC 319.(1), so long as one does not incite others to do harm against any other Canadian.
After reading this, I was thinking back to the June 06, 2:06pm piece entitled “ACLU defends Nazi’s right to burn down ACLU headquarters.” If anyone wants a good laugh they should go back and read it in the context of David Ahenakew’s Nazi sympathies and continued insistance that the holocaust was right and justifiable.
“That’s why he fried six million of those guys, you know. Jews would have owned the goddamned world. And look what they’re doing. They’re killing people in Arab countries.” David Ahenakew
According to the ACLU article, this is pretty tame.
Myself, I disagree with Free, I think there should be limits when it comes to spreading hatred. Free would be singing a different tune if he had spent time in the death camps and all of his living relatives were gassed and turned to ash.
We can say that everything goes from the perspective of our comfortable North American upbringing but walk a mile in the other guys shoes…
Daniel
Calling Jews a “disease” isn’t inciting others to do harm? I mean, that’s probably legally the best way out for Ahenakew, I agree, but either way — give me a break, Ahenakew. You were caught making racist remarks and are still trying to justify it on the basis of … surprise, race.
And even if he’s acquitted on second trial, he shouldn’t be given his Order of Canada back. He’s already admitted to making the comments.
MarkM – read more closely. He just won his appeal.
Hmm… how about if the state refuses to treat everyone equally when it comes to free speech… then all hate speech laws will have to be stricken down by the SCOC as unconstitutional as they don’t apply to everyone equally?
We know that such laws definitely aren’t applied fairly across the diverse peoples living inside the Federation.
I must admit this discussion gives food for thought.
It is politically volatile, though, isn’t it?
And Maryjane, why would you assume from what I did say above that I don’t understand that Ahenakew “won his appeal”? Can you carefully explain precisely how you came to that conclusion? Besides, my point is that he did indeed break the law against saying hateful things about an identifiable group. Therefore I contend he won his appeal because he’s an “Aboriginal”. I think the court let him off due to that.
But if he gets off completely… then we’ll have to abolish the “hate speech” laws! This is the implication of this piece of news!
We can’t let off an Aboriginal antiSemitic speaker and then turn around and imprison a nonAboriginal citizen for saying similar filthy crap about Muslims or homosexuals… it would violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, wouldn’t it?
Further, as long as the law is in effect, I demand that it be applied equally to all regardless of race, sex, burqha or whatever…
It is indeed worthy of discussion, though.
Just wait till the leftists arrive… oh, boy!
“The Canadian Jewish Congress had argued that Christie’s position threatened the integrity of Canada’s hate laws”.
“The anti-hate laws are extremely important for minority communities that are targeted and vulnerable, and Canada would not remain a multicultural democracy for very long if segments of its society could be attacked and vilified with impunity,” executive vice-president Manuel Prutschi said in April.
Hate crime laws, what an absurd perversion of justic. Add extra value to the life of select members of society, then
show no will to prosecute the perpetrators.
For what good works did Ahenakew receive the Order of Canada? Was it real or was it political correctness? If he truly deserved the award, it should not be taken away over hateful remarks. It cheapens the award itself.
Should we, like the Hollywood moguls of old, require a “morals” contract with each person about to receive the “Order”?
When this case first hit the MSM, I wrote to the local MSM, asking if the then living WW2 hero “Smoky” Smith,had made similar remarks, would the government have taken away his Victoria Cross?
The editor called me and said it was not a fair comparison, so they never printed the letter.
So, what does a Canadian award really mean? You can keep it only if you live an exemplary life?
Ahenakew is, in my opinion, a bigoted idiot, but if he deserved the award in the first place, it should not have been taken away.
BTW, did the NFL take away O.J.Simpson’s MVP award, and expunge his name from the record books?
Well maybe Ahenakew is a member of CUPE and his comments were in reference to a discussion he had with Sid Ryan.
What this chap said was not racist; Jewish folk are not a race. Judaism is a religion.
Nevertheless, what he spoke constituted hate speech.
My question is this: If someone went into a mosque and taped an imam spewing venow, what legal repercussions would there be? Deportation? Incarceration” What?
This is actually a very important case if you take it into context of todays’ problems…..
Just my thoughts….
Uh, venom, not venow. Ouch.
I wonder how Elections Canada made out with his reserve re: the voting irregularities and TV raffle?
Sentinel…”Why would you assume…?”
Because you would seem to attribute Ahenakew’s successful appeal to the” Liberal state apparatus”, whatever that is, and the “bizzare leftist ideology”, and not to due process in a court of law.
Frankly, I’m in agreement with most on this post.
Limiting speech is much more egregious than the most vile expression of speech. Hate speech should be countered with speech.
He won his appeal. Let it go. We all know what a scum bag he is and he knows that we know. He no longer has his Order of Canada. That is good enough for me. Lets move on.
What “rips” me about this whole thing is that there will be valuable court time and taxpayers money spent on this that should be used for more important matters. We all know that he is no longer an authority figure, his credibility and political career are gone forever. As Robert J says, let’s move on.
D Morris: “When this case first hit the MSM, I wrote to the local MSM, asking if the then living WW2 hero “Smoky” Smith,had made similar remarks, would the government have taken away his Victoria Cross?”
Well, I doubt if Mr. Smoky would’ve made similar remarks… as, after all, he risked his life to fight and kill antiSemites…
But if he made anti-homosexual remarks, then the Libranos would’ve taken away his medal and charged him with hate speech, probably… after all, sometimes, under Liberalism, homosexuality does seem to be the most rabidly protected-by-the-state ideology, next to Islamism…
No offense to any homies or Mussies… (oops… did I break the hate law?)
I don’t have any medals, therefore I can say whatever I please, I guess…
D Morris: “When this case first hit the MSM, I wrote to the local MSM, asking if the then living WW2 hero “Smoky” Smith,had made similar remarks, would the government have taken away his Victoria Cross?”
Well, I doubt if Mr. Smoky would’ve made similar remarks… as, after all, he risked his life to fight and kill antiSemites…
But if he made anti-homosexual remarks, then the Libranos would’ve taken away his medal and charged him with hate speech, probably… after all, sometimes, under Liberalism, homosexuality does seem to be the most rabidly protected-by-the-state ideology, next to Islamism…
No offense to any homies or Mussies… (oops… did I break the hate law?)
I don’t have any medals, therefore I can say whatever I please, I guess…
Canadian Sentinel. I know Smoky Smith would never have made remarks like Ahenakew’s. I have nothing but respect and admiration for men like Mr.Smith. Probably should have used a different person for an example.
But you understand my point, sometimes the “good guy” of today, can be , with a few ill-conceived remarks, tomorrow’s pariah, but his good works still stand.
Perhaps I should have used the OJ Simpson analogy and left it at that. Do you not agree that it cheapens the value of the Order by taking it back for mere words. Again, I hate to play the Devil’s advocate here, I was totally disgusted by Ahenakew.
Did he deserve the Order, or was it another p/c move to placate a very vocal minority? No one seems to know, or want to reply.
My dad was a veteran of WW2. His unit was attached to th British Army’s bridgebuilders. They were among the first Allied troops to enter Germany. He saw the Camps, and it haunted him for the rest of his life. He probably would have decked Ahenakew if he’d been there when those infamous remarks were made.
I made a poor choice in using the name of a real hero, but my point still stands, the Government of Canada has, IMO, become an “Indian Giver”. There’s a politically incorrect term for everyone, chew on it for awhile, then call for my beheading. No wonder the Hollywood Indians used to say,”white man speak with forked tongue”.
All it equals is a COLOSSAL WASTE OF MONEY. Taxpayers are paying for all of this b.s., now we are paying for another b.s. trial.
Free speach is free speach, and while I think that David Ahenakew is a stupid foolish man, I don’t think we need to be wasting this much money, or tying up our legal system with this garbage.
ALTHOUGH: Despite being a profoundly stupid law, it was encouraging to see that it was applied to a Third World Nation person! I had come to feel that it only applied to hetero-white-males.
Will “the embattled native leader” head west to Caledonia?
Will “the embattled native leader” run for the Librano$.
Will the “embattled native leader” turn his back on the non-native residents of Canada?
Will Paul Who? issue a press release demanding “the embattled native leader” be awarded an immediate Sponsorship Programme in the Kelowna Accord?
Stay tun…. to the CanBroadCorp for the details on the award program/telethon: “Save David” Fund.
$$$
Ahenakew’s Order of Canada won’t be restored
Globe and Mail – 2 hours ago
David Ahenakew’s membership in the Order of Canada will not be restored despite a court decision this week overturning a hate-crime conviction against the embattled native leader. Lucie Brosseau, spokeswoman …
Maz2, are you retarded?
Canadian Sentinel:
Bang on!!!
Canadian Sentinel:
Bang on!!!
People, people…when are you going to stop and realize that whites (and, to a large extent, Jews) are the only ones capable of racism?
See, when somebody like Charles Barkley makes a statement to the effect that he ‘doesn’t like white people’, this is an amusing statement that should elicit chuckles.
Once you realize that whites/Jews are the only ones capable of hate, we can finally address the real problems in this world and eventually live in a world full of rainbows/unicorns/hugs.
And for those who may wander in here without a sense of irony, allow me to simply add…
/sarcasm