This handy primer courtesy of the Blue Maple Leaf;
When Gurmant Grewal first notified the public that he had been offered a cabinet post, the liberal party, including the Prime Minister, denied that anyone had ever talked to Gurmant.
When Gurmant said that he had been recorded his conversations with liberal party members, the Prime Minister changed his story and said that liberal party members were negotiating with Gurmant, but that Gurmant initiated the negotiations. Paul Martin added that at no time did he ever agree to meet with the Conservative MP.
However, the audio tapes clearly show that the chief of staff for Prime Minister Paul Martin said, “The Prime Minister is prepared to talk to you directly both by phone and in person.”
During question period in the House of Commons Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper asked the Prime Minister why he said he was unwilling to meet with the Conservative MP when clearly he was.
Paul Martin answered by repeating his previous lie, that Gurmant initiated discussions with the liberal party. The Prime Minister also said that he gave specific instructions to senior party members that no offer could be given to entice a defection and at no time was the Prime Minister prepared to meet with the Conservative MP. Then Paul Martin ended his answer by saying, “obviously anyone would meet with somebody that was interested in crossing the floor.”
[…]
Paul Martin again changed his story by saying that he would not be willing to meet with the Conservative MP unless he joined the liberal party with no preconditions or offers from the liberals.
Now, go back to the beginning and review the first sentence;
When Gurmant Grewal first notified the public that he had been offered a cabinet post, the liberal party, including the Prime Minister, denied that anyone had ever talked to Gurmant.
I cannot believe that people call the CPC inept and fumblers. They are honest. Pure and simple. It is the dishonest who are trying to deflect the glare of scrutiny by hollering about ‘clicks’ on a tape. It is NOT the ‘clicks’ we are interested in it is what is ON the tapes that cannot possibly be altered no matter what: The unmistakable voices of TM and UD. And what they say or ‘don’t’ say in their non-speak and non-offers.
Let’s get on the ball here: The Liberals have been caught ONCE AGAIN on TAPE.
There is NO question what they were doing and what they were done. We see people sitting on the Liberal side of the aisle right now and we know why.
We see from Gomery and the Finance committees who said what, who did what. Canadians are not morons but the Liberals and the CBC, CTV THINK we are and they are calling the shots on discussion. Just as they did with : “Canadians don’t want an election” : YES we do. We NEED one. The liberals are so terrified of that reckoning they will do anything. And have DONE everything and anything.
They can put talking heads on tv all they like it doesn’t change the truth. Truth we can see and hear with our own eyes and ears.
The liberals and it’s leader Paul Martin are liars. Cheats. Theives. Mobsters. They act like mosbsters. Rather than the party infiltrated by the mob they ARE the mob.
It is past time to take matters into our own hands and tell the media we know what they are doing and will not put up with it. The more we speak up the more influence we will have. The CPC need to know we support them and get behind them and the Bloc to erase this blight on our political landscape. Clear the air and get on with having a hand in getting our democracy back.
Sigh…
From the Globe and Mail’s website this afternoon:
“Meanwhile, the Canadian Press reported the Conservative party is recanting its insistence that the tapes were not altered or edited. For days the party has claimed the tapes were copies of the original. Deputy Tory Leader Peter MacKay has now refused to defend the veracity of the 90 minutes of audio.”
Never mind whether they were altered or not. Now MacKay, as a result, is actually refusing to associate himself with any firm claim that the tapes’ content is even true.
So to respond to those criticizing those of us who are dwelling on the medium, rather than the message, sorry, but if the medium is corrupt, there’s no hope for its message.
‘Fraid it’s time to turn out the lights on this one.
(OK… What about this for a message? Try making some positive policy statements in public for a change! Hmmmm.)
Mike – here’s some policy for you – one of many news releases the CPC puts out on poklicyu that NEVER get reported on by the media.
Strange how that works:
Harper says changes to Access to Information will bring back government accountability
02 June 2005
CALGARY � Leader of the Opposition Stephen Harper today released details of the Conservative plan to improve Canadians� access to government information.
�We need to put in place mechanisms and measures to bring back accountability and integrity to government,� Harper said. �We will only achieve this through better access to information from every aspect of government where taxpayers� dollars are spent or public functions are performed.�
In improving the Information Act, Harper said a Conservative government would:
Expand the coverage of the act to all Crown corporations, all officers of Parliament, all foundations, and, to all organizations that spend taxpayers’ dollars, or perform public functions.
Establish a Cabinet-confidence exclusion, subject to review by the Information Commissioner.
Establish a duty on public officials to create the records necessary to document their actions and decisions.
Provide a general public interest override for all exemptions, in that the public interest should come before the secrecy of government.
Make all exemptions discretionary and subject to an injury test.
Harper decried the Liberal government�s record on access to information, pointing out that the current Information Act is 22 years old, outdated, badly administered and open to abuse by officials who might wish to control or impede the flow of government-held records to the public. The Liberal record, he said, has been �to release a Discussion Paper � instead of a bill � which proposes to make the government more secretive than it already is, to propose a new 20 year gag order on draft internal audit reports and working papers, and to try to prevent the release of consultant reports for agencies for 20 years.�
Harper added, �John Reid, the current Information Commissioner, recently told the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy, and Ethics that if the government had improved the Access to Information Act and provided for the ability to gain access to Foundations and Crown Corporations, the recent scandals would not have occurred.
In a speech today to the Canadian Community Newspapers� Association in Banff, Alberta, Harper said, �the pattern is clear. During their mandate, instead of making government information more accessible, the Liberals have in fact tried to suppress more of it. Instead of improving the Information Act, they would like to toughen it. Only a Conservative government has the political will to truly improve Canadians� access to information.�
-30-
For more information: Carolyn Stewart Olsen (613) 297-9479 and Tom Lukiwski, MP: 613-992-4573
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Snowbunnie,
Remember that OJ was acquitted because of incredible tactical errors by the prosecution. The reason why people get upset with avoidable errors is because they want people like UD and Tim Murphy to pay the piper for the acts they have committed….let alone all of “the gomery gang”
The CPC needs to play a harder, better game, they are Team Canada playing in Russia in 1972…ties go to the home team and you need to expect a number of unwarrented penalties…so no need to be getting ones all on your own. I am pleased the media is not really buying the “doctored tape” story. I think we better start warming up the
“bye bye Ujall…bye bye ujall…it so sad to see you go”
He will be resigning his cabinet post by the end of next week at the latest and Tim Murphy will also be stepping aside. PM the PM needs to be protected here and he cannot expend any more of his “capital” on loyal allies. If this is a brouhaha by Wed of next week then caucus is going to be unbearable for everyone involved.
But just keep reducing the rookie errors and things should be fine. There is a mighty fine cabinet on that CPC bench and many in the observers in the MSM have said so.
Has anybody heard more about the two east indians in Vancouver who claim that Kallia was bragging to them on April 30th that the Liberals through Dosanj had asked him to “bring them Grewal”.
And, what is this about 23 phone calls from Kallia to Grewal.
Will the RCMP and ethics commish be gathering all phone records – even from the PMO? If not then no investigation would be credible.
Snowbunnie, The CPC bring forward four hours of incriminating audio tape revealing unethical and potentially criminal conduct on the part of our ruling party. This should be the last play of the game to score a winning touchdown right? But no, now we’re into overtime and the Liberals, for a brief moment were actually in possession of the ball.
The stakes here are higher than winning a damn ball game so I’ll lay off the sports analogies.
It is the CPC’s JOB to bring down a corupt government. I expect more from them than just earnestness or they will be pulled down with the Liberal government flaming all the way! They’ve got to work harder and smarter as a Party. And this is not something we should be “hoping for” – we should expect it. Stop acting so, dare I say, Canadian and let’s get the government the we truly deserve.
I’ll skulk away now from my position as Monday Morning Quarterback and retrieve my pom-poms.
p.s. they should fire Anne McLellan as PR; I don’t like the spin she’s been putting on things.
Hey Mike, from the same story in the G&M… Headline could be…
“Audio Expert Backs up CPC Claims”
“The Conservatives have said the gap occurred when the master tape was transferred to CD. Mr. Pausak acknowledged “it is possible” such a transfer process could produce the gap.”
The fact that we now have newly transfered audio files reposted on Grewal’s website for all to examine should stop this distraction from going any further and focus things back on the real issues the tape brings to light.
Tom,
EXACTLY….problem fixed, back to our regulalry scheduled talking points…..thats the way to do it.
Perhaps the first conversation between Grewal and Dosanjh wasn’t recorded was because Mr. Grewal didn’t realize just how significant this was going to be, until he had an “Inky Mark” moment and realized he’d be scorned, mocked, derided, abused and accused of lying if he didn’t have something on record. Mr. Grewal is a seasoned politiican and with all the non-deals not being offered, you’d think if he’d really wanted to join the Librano$, he’d have shut off the bloody recorder, minced across the floor a la Hillary Rodham Stronach, and be done with it. There should be rebellion among Martin’s Liberals, unless they are all totally devoid of ethics, integrity and backbone. Life has suddenly become more interesting again. BTW, this is standard for B.C. politics. We have yet to see the drama that will unfold as a result of the raid on the BC legislature, which, at the time, had federal implications. The House of Commons has become a house of cards.
You are correct Bill, This is a diversion. In fact this is a criminal squabble carried on for free in the House of Commons.
This small potatoes spat belongs in Civil court with the Liberals and CPCs paying their bills like we have to.
The house of commons is for the important business of Canada.
The tapes are clear and proven genuine. Grewal asked for a cabinet post. Dosanje said no, but send your level-headed wife over and we may have something for you later.
Grewal got mad and lashed back using the tapes. The edits are probably nothing more than removal of filthy language.
The real crime, and business of Canada, is the Liberals spending hundreds of millions of our dollars, without debate, to keep the N.D.P. vote onside.
Now that looks like a simple case of blackmail to me. Am I too crude?
Get out of the house with your pettey tapes crap.
But the Libscams are hamstrung and can’t get much done in the house anyway.
Exactly! Now is the time for the Govenor General to do her sworn duty. Dissolve the house. Call an election now, so we can get back to fixing the Libscam’s damage.
The note you can use is at BendGovernment.blogspot.com
73s TonyGuitar
Thank-you for the ‘credentials’ on John Dooher Tim r. I just saw that seedy looking critter on CBC and was about to try to find out about him on the net. You bloggers are fast with finding the facts. Thanks for saving me the time. I commend everyone here who has stepped up to the plate to rid our nation of the stinking corpse of the Liberal/ND governing body. The sooner we get that mass of pus and maggots to the graveyard the better off we will be.
The tape topic is being foistered on the Canadian people as a ‘light weight’ issue. Don’t worry – it is ‘horse -trading’. My uncle used to raise registared Quarter horses and the ‘horse -traders’ who carried cash, always had a Colt 45 (not a young horse -information for the left-wing wacko crowd ) in their briefcases. Is this the situation as the press gang see it? Or is Duffy ignorant about ‘horse-trading’?
Mr. Grewal has proved his point, now we all know that the Liberals bought BS and a klennex (or scottie tissue) with positions and appointments that did not belong to them (the Liberals) – Canadian taxpayers pay the bills so our collective M.P. s are responsible for appointments and positions on our behalf. It is, of course, illigal to barter with property that does not belong to you (ask any ‘horsetrader!’) so now on to the next – ‘insult’and criminal.
Mr. Mark and Mr. Grewal are, according to Reg Alcock, not high enough in the gene pool to get cabinet positions; also this apparently also goes for Keith Martin and Mr. Matthews (they did not ‘get’ positions or appointments). Does her gender, money or her hair make BS higher in the gene pool? What about Scottie? We, the people who pay these people should demand a pedigree for OUR aquisitions (that is what ‘horse-traders’ do). We are on the line for these trades and they might be glue factory material. We should get the mighty MSM on this, esp Duffy since he says he knows all about this ‘business’ and how it is carried out.
Try turning on a tape recorder and then turn it off and then back on. Geez, where’d that click come from?
Unless Gurmant invited Mssrs. Dosanjh and Murphy into a recording studio this surreptitious recording will not be audiologically pristine.
Someone should point that out to the msm.
But this issue IS being poorly handled by the CPC’s communications department. I think its time for big changes over there.
Two huge scandals in a row have been fumbled, pull the pitcher, change goalies, whatever…just do it…
Good Day to all
I just phoned gurmant Grewals office in Surrey to let them know that I am proud of Gurmant for sticking his neck out and recording the conversations, so as not to get called a liar by the media, ala Inky Marks.
Show your support – call, fax, email
Phone: 604-501-7900
Fax: 604-501-7901
E-mail: grewag1@parl.gc.ca
Now there’s useful advice. “Whatever it is, just do it.” What should they be doing, Colin? Who should they replace, and with whom?
Do you seriously believe that the Conservative communications office could prevent the CBC from disinforming the public? Or could force CTV and Globe to stop being paid-up Liberals? How?
Look, the main enemy here is the television news, and the Conservatives have just gotten two weeks of coverage, all very damaging to the Liberals, out of the enemy in spite of everything the enemy can do to prevent it. You can see how desperate the Liberals are here. This is working.
Just a reminder: this can be kept up indefinitely. There is so much corruption to be exposed. The agony can go on a lot longer than Paul Martin can survive it. He’s showing every sign of losing his mind as it is. Keep piling the pressure on him and he will pop. Understand – the Liberals CAN NOT win a majority again. They are dead in the West and in Quebec, and there aren’t enough seats in Ontario to give them power, even if they gain seats there. Yes, the Ontario voter is eager to reward corruption, but the only reward will be that this agony goes on until Martin finally hangs himself.
Be patient. And keep at it.
Shapiro has announced that he has launched a formal investigation into the actions of both Dosanjh and Grewal.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050603.wethicsta0603/BNStory/National/
But what do you know:
“The Prime Minister’s chief of staff office falls outside the scope of the ethics commissioner, and Mr. Murphy will not be investigated.”
That’s a good tip.
As well:
“The ethics investigation will also examine whether Mr. Grewal deliberately tried to trap Mr. Dosanjh by taping their phone conversations.”
So,we’ve got lots of dirt to look forward to over the next little while.
I suggest for you all to do what I have just done, and that is to click on to CFRA and on their main web page is a list of staff, then click on “swinogrens email,” and tell them what I just did, that they are still lying for their political masters, as they are still running that phoney story on how so-called “experts” are saying the tapes have been altered. I told him that the Blogs are now the MSM and that he and his ilk are exposing themeslves as being no less than mouth pieces for Herr Martin. I heard Lorne Green is leaving the station, the only one there I can trust, I think he has had enough of the lies comming out of Ottawa’s CFRA with their phoney polls and their so called “experts” that know more than God.
There’s no question, the Conservatives could do a much better job with their communications. However, trying to get a message through the rose-coloured filter of CBC, CTV, G&M, and increasingly, Global & the National Post, is like smacking your head against a brick wall. In fact, anything coming out of the Conservative National Office becomes part of the game – “now how can we use this to make the Conservatives look bad?”
Our journalists are pathetic. Those tapes raise a thousand questions, the least of which are “how accurate are they”, etc. Anyone with half a brain knows the tapes can’t possibly contain every second of Grewal’s conversations – unless someone out there is TAPING HIS ENTIRE LIFE, there’s no chance at “complete”. However, the voices on the tape speak for themselves. For God’s sake – they’re tapes of LIBERAL MINISTERS AND OPERATORS IN THEIR OWN VOICES! They don’t even deny it!
Why aren’t there smart reporters out there interviewing every NDP MP (starting with Ed Broadbent) and asking, “how do you feel knowing Belinda got cabinet, Grewal was offered ‘Senate, not Senate…’, and Layton sold all 19 of you for a signed napkin?” Some great stuff would be bound to emerge. And while they’re at it, they should be getting quotes from every Liberal backbencher.
Galla Placida- did you say that the ethics commish CANNOT investigate Murphy? That he cannot probe the inner workings of the PM’s own office?
Does that mean that they do not have to hand over any minutes or phone records.
What the …..
Who exactly can investigate Murphy? And, who wrote the rules about what the Ethics Commish can and cannot investigate.
Did the Liberals build in their own immunity?
I am with Broadbent that this Ethics lapdog MUST resign pending an investigation that Murphy implied the PMO can influence him.
So, why would the Ethics Commish be investigating an incident where his own non-objectivity is in question?
Quote from Stephen:
“Remember that OJ was acquitted because of incredible tactical errors by the prosecution.”
Implying, I suppose, by comparison, that Stephen Harper and the Conservatives are beating themselves by committing tactical errors.
Well, I do not buy it. Not for a second. The media has been and is still to a certain extent , carrying the liberal water here.
The Conservatives do everything right. They make statements and they give press releases. And they fight the fight in Question Period, in the Scrums and on some of these shows like Duffy’s. Who is as lame a liberal apologist as you’ll find. He lets his liberal guests get away with absolute out and out lying and spinning and twisting. So does the CBC. They continually belittle openly and cut off the Conservative representative.
I have never seen a bunch so decent as the Conservatives. Even when they get their noses clipped like Don Newman did by Rona on the Day Care Issue the day Ken Dryden was making a fool out of himself announcing the liberal plan, they find a way to minimize anything coming from the Conservative party. The best media attention on the Conservatives was on Peter McKay when Belinda broke his heart and saved sorry liberal ass for
one or two more weeks or so.
Wonder if BS thinks it’s worth it now.
Of course, I am of the school of thought that she was a liberal plant all along. ( too many cosy connections to Power Corp not to be suspicious of her and her motives)
So, I say again: The Conservatives are doing it just right: Make sure they are right and forge ahead. Not flinching. Non stop , quietly moving forward and just keep it coming boys.
That is not to say I would not just love to see Peter and Stephen get all fired up.
Last time that happened the headlines blared: Stephen Harper ANGRY. Well, hell, yes. He should be angry just like the rest of us who have been had.
Oh, and Stephen: The prosecution in the OJ case lost more because they didn’t have a case and doctored the one they did have. If they had really wanted to convict the man of a double murder they should have gone about it as though they had to prove something rather than assume they had a slam dunk.
Their forensic evidence was shot to hell by Henry Lee and their dna was shot by Barry.
They were bad at their job rather than making tactical errors.
Dr. Lee and the Glove did it.
Oh, and the “glove” found at Rockingham was “still wet when we found it at 6:15 am” right out of Furhmans mouth… exoneration.
Sorry about that, Kate… not the topic of course , but then again, it IS about lying. And there was a LOT of lying going on in that trial.
Back to the subject:
I am so sick and tired of everybody hacking away at the Conservatives when the liars, thieves, crooks, and screechers ( had to get Annie in there) [Man am I sick of HER!] are hammering away at our very democracy.
The Conservatives are our tool to retake this country and we fling it around like we don’t know what it is for nor it’s potential. Geez!
Saw this headline on today’s Google News:
“Health committee asks Dosanjh to delay decision on breast implants”
I had no idea Dosanjh was considering breast implants?! Is this an attempt to make himself more appealing to voters in an upcomming election?
I think this warrants further investigation…
…Sorry, its been a long day
THE JOURNAL
Latest News
Chretien gets off lightly in scandal;
Only Quebecers blame former prime minister more than Martin.
Mark Kennedy
Ottawa Citizen; CanWest News Service
Friday, June 03, 2005
1 | 2 | NEXT >>
CREDIT: Canadian Press
Twenty-nine per cent of poll respondents say Prime Minister Paul Martin is solely responsibility for the sponsorship scandal
OTTAWA – Prime Minister Paul Martin is wearing the blame for the sponsorship scandal even though it occurred under the watch of his predecessor, Jean Chretien, a major new poll has found.
The nationwide survey was conducted by SES-Research for the Institute for Research on Public Policy (IRPP) and its flagship magazine, Policy Options. The results will be published in the magazine early next week, but were released Thursday to CanWest newspapers.
The poll shows that, by a margin of two to one, Canadians are more likely to finger Martin — not Chretien — for being solely responsible for the mess.
nealenews.com
######################################
Martin is being fingered by Canadians!!!!!
The bird is being flipped at Payola Adscam Martin, he of the Librano$$$$.
Martin is being fingered by Canadians. The rout of the Liberals is on; ride the surf; vote Honest Stephen Harper and the Conservatives into office.
Go Canadians. Go, go ,go.
Down with National Socialism.
Long live freedom and democracy
Some people have asked if I�m serious about switching. I am. Some people have pointed out that Grewal�which seemed to them to be the catalyst of my change�looks just as bad as the Liberals and that strictly speaking, no offer was made. That�s not the point. Martin�s disingenuous posturing is not the issue; it�s an example of the issue.
Marriages don�t usually go bad overnight. They go bad slowly, bit by bit. Small indignities become patterns of behavior. Similarly, corruption and bad government doesn�t suddenly arrive one day. It grows slowly. It builds on past behavior. It builds on itself.
That�s no great insight. Every Jane and Joe knows that the longer a government is in power�especially if it�s unchallenged�the greater the corruption and the more arrogant, bad behavior you can expect.
There was a chance�one that I embraced for a while�that the new Martin government would do the required house cleaning. There was a chance that the Martinite purging of the Chretienites would put new people in charge and force the slow, inevitable growth of bad behavior to start from scratch again. Certainly Martin wanted us to believe it with his bold talk of fixing the democratic deficit and his �mad as hell� speeches. It didn�t happen.
If you look back over the last month or so Paul Martin has shown us a pattern of escalating indignities: opposition days have been cancelled; their own budget was filibustered to forestal defeat of the government; there was no vote of confidence called when it was clear that the Liberals had lost control of the house; and an unwarranted one week delay in the confidence vote was used to negotiate for additional votes. That�s some democratic deficit!
But so what? Isn�t it just politics?
It�s not. It�s more than that for two reasons.
1. People become inured to the bad behavior. The outrage dies down and even greater misdeeds are required to stir the electorate again.
1. Politicians see that the increasingly dramatic tactics work. If the government is allowed to continue then politicians come to understand that the public will wear it; there are no consequences. They add those actions to their toolbox and will use them as the new safe baseline. The next time they will go at least that far. Probably further.
Changing the leadership of the Liberal Party was not enough change to clean the house. More change is needed but change is uncomfortable. What are we putting at risk by changing because, let�s face it, life in Canada is pretty sweet. We have a good economy, a good standard of living, and a good decent society. Are we putting all that at risk?
I have a couple of things to say to those who still cling to the scary stories about Harper and the CPC.
First, take a deep breath, and read their policies. Don�t read them to prove to yourself that they are this bad thing or that bad thing. Just sit down in your favorite reading chair or in the yard or wherever and read them. Read them with the intent of understanding where they are coming from and what they�re trying to achieve. Just read them honestly. You might find they�re not as frightening as you think. You�ll probably find some of them are better solutions.
Second, Canada is not a fragile duck�s egg that we dare not disturb for fear of breaking it. Canada is much bigger than that. The overprotective premise is wrong. Let�s face it, Canada is strong enough to endure whatever kind of government is in Ottawa as long as we don�t let our expectations of good government slip away from us.
It�s time for a change. Almost no one disputes that. Almost no one disagrees that the Liberal party has lost it�s way, that they have become overly focused with retaining power.
Take a look at the CPC. Take a look at the NDP. Take a look at the Greens. Choose a party whose policies you can support and support them.
Comment [4]
http://www.harperliberals.ca
I’ve copied the following from the Government of Canada’s website:
Background
The Office of the Ethics Commissioner was created as a result of Bill C-4 , An Act to amend the Parliament of Canada Act (Ethics Commissioner and Senate Ethics Officer) and other Acts in consequence assented to, on March 31st, 2004. It became Chapter 7 of the Statutes of Canada, 2004.
Dr Bernard J. Shapiro was appointed as the first Ethics Commissioner by Governor in Council after a resolution of the House of Commons adopted on April 29, 2004. The Ethics Commissioner reports directly to Parliament. Dr Shapiro assumed office on May 17, 2004.
The Mandate
The Mandate of the Ethics Commissioner is to administer:
* the Conflict of Interest Code for Members of the House of Commons adopted by the House of Commons on April 29, 2004 and,
* the Prime Minister’s Conflict of Interest and Post-Employment Code for Public Office Holders. (PDF) Within that responsibility, the Ethics Commissioner is also charged with the Public Registry for Public Office Holders, including Ministers, Ministers of state and Parliamentary secretaries
Here’s the link:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/oec-bce/site/pages/ethics-e.htm
A Lame Defense
According to this National Post article, Liberal party officials have emailed Liberal MP’s some talking points to use when questioned about the Grewal tapes. Some of the spin they are to use:
– The quality and accuracy of the tapes remains in doubt.
– It was Grewal who approached the Liberals, not the other way around.
– No job offer was ever explicitly made.
– Grewal has at least twice in the past claimed he was lured and offered an appointment.
– Given that the government’s survival was at stake in a confidence vote, “it was only natural” that Liberals would speak with Grewal.
What really struck me as bizarre were Liberal M.P. Jim Karygiannis’s comments when interviewed for this article. He said that “horsetrading happens every single day”. He also tried to turn the whole thing into a women’s rights issue by accusing Grewal of making deals for his wife without his wife’s presence.
“You’ve come to Canada. You are a politician in Canada,” Karygiannis said.
“Respect your wife. Respect your mate. She is an equal.”
“I hope this story just goes away”
Susan Delacourt commenting on the Murphy/Dosanjh tapes on Politics with Don Newman.
Oy.
If you can’t link to the Globe & Mail article try CTV at:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1117824898575_113234098/?hub=CTVNewsAt11
“Shapiro’s spokesman Jonathan Choquette told CTV.ca the ethics commissioner would have to drop the case if the RCMP opens a criminal investigation into the matter.”
Is there or isn’t there an RCMP investigation?
Also:
“The ethics office would be looking at three issues, Choquette said:
* If Grewal sought inducements in exchange for changing his vote on the budget
* If Dosanjh and Harper offered inducements
* If the surreptitious audio taping by Grewal was an attempt at entrapment”
Sounds like Deepak Throat may have cooked his goose. “I was just pretending to seek inducements to catch them offering inducements!” Not the best sting op, but hey, thanks for helping out
All of these scams and scandals are about Paul Martin’s Liberals abusing their positions of trust and corrupting the democratic system by bribery, theft, bullying, manipulation and outright lies.
THEN, we have this recent episode being referred to an Ethics Commisioner who, according to the tapes, can be manipulated by the very people he is going to investigate. And, he can’t investigate Murphy or the PMO’s henchmen-the very people who claim they have power over him.
Does anybody, including Jack Layton who called for this, see anything wrong with this story?
You mean Murphy, not Harper right Galla?
Layton acted like he was champion of the world a few weeks ago. Now, every time he’s on camera, he looks like he’s about to cry. He knows he’s been had, he knows he’s been bought, and he knows he was bought CHEAP!
If only Inky Mark had a tape of the phone call(s) he got from Goodale when Paul Martin was in Regina offering the same thing then Grewal would not have had to resort to this.
The way the Liberals bold faced lied and made Inky look like a fool and then the media joined in their character assasination of Inky to where it looked like HE was the bad guy.
Apparently there are several more Conservatives who were made similar offers and the media of course would not believe them. They screamed for proof. Now that they have the proof the guy with the proof is the bad guy. Sigh.
None but Belinda were corruptable.
I wonder if the Liberals trolled for any members of the Bloc?
C’mon guys, the title said “A Brief History of Lying” – and this is 82 posts.
Am I supposed to get a brief history of lying here or did I click the wrong link?
A couple of thoughts:
Regarding the communications strategy … The CPC CAN NOT replace anyone. IF they do, the MSM will be all over it: How incompetent they. How they can’t get together the right team. How they’ve bungled x number of situations dating back to Moses. Interviews with ‘communications experts’ at how things should be handled. And the Grewall tapes will disappear like they never happened.
For crying out loud. The CPC must do everything very carefully and a shake up with PR people will only highlight what the MSM already wants to believe.
When someone’s got a gun to your head, don’t hand them the bullets.
Second, I’m surprised this ‘doctoring the tape’ allegation has been given so much weight. Of all people who should know about the perils and pitfalls of taping a conversation it would the MSM. They tape people all the time for interviews and articles, etc. There are all kinds of wacky sounds that can get on the tape when you’re talking to someone. Plus, it depends on what kind of technology is being used to record the conversation. Then it depends on how it was transferred into an MP3 format. A host of things can go wrong. I’m just surprised my colleagues in the MSM won’t admit they know this.
But then again, in the current Canada nothing should surprise me.
Don’t count Inky Mark out yet.
He can still produce his phone records. Not as good as tapes, of course, but it could be another cut in a death of a thousand cuts.
Don Newman and press pundits (CBC “Politics”)were truly something to behold. I saw A.Cooper’s post re Susan Delacourt (she wrote the book on Paul Martin, remember?)but all the press guys were laughing it up about how the Libs got away with this one because they’re so good at it, and how they’ve turned the guns back on the Tories, and Tories are trying to distance themselves from it, blah blah blah. Now would be a great time for the Tories to get a younger, edgier PR bunch before the election rolls around. This is imperative, I think, because there is so much fodder out there, but I really believe this bunch of communication hacks they now have are very old school and do not know the meaning of the word spin. It’s all a game in this day and age, and there are absolutely no rules. Harper can take the high ground while still being brutally realistic about lack of integrity in the Libs. It is so frustrating the way this whole Grewal thing has been handled. As Kate pointed out ?last week, the tapes should have been fed a bit at a time. Instead, we get 8 minutes then nothing. This was a spinmeister’s dream – what the hell happened?
Glad to see somebody saw that irksome round with the press pundits on Don Newman this afternoon. It made me want to gag.
They are so smug and self-serving. Talking so openly admiringly of how well the liberals are at spinning and turning the tables on someone who has them by the short curlies.
NOT a word about WHAT the tapes clearly show was going on. NOT ONE WORD. That Scott Reid I could cheerfully slap every time I see him.
My count is now three of the libs I could slap as soon as I see their faces: Scott Reid. Tony Valeri and ( Lord help us all , that Sreech: Ann McClellan.
They are quite happy to sit around the table today and prattle on about how well the libs spin.
They ought to turn in their press passes and hang their heads in shame.
Of course they will not and that is part of the problem. Maybe we should step up the heat on these bench warmers while we kick up the fire under the libs.
Snowbunnie, how could you possibly overlook Joe Volpe. Projectile vomitus…..
Newman is the one I’m most disappointed with. He’s had a pretty distinguished career, and I say this as pretty much a polar opposite of his views. Since Adscam broke though, he has become petulent and regularly shows flashes of elitism he managed to hide for years.
Case in point was allowing the suckhole Don Boudria to whimper about his domain name taken over by a group opposed to SSM. I think it’s dirty pool (and I don’t support the religious groups views), but I hardly think it qualifies as a national emergency to take to the airwaves.
AC, I agree. Eric Sorenson covered for Newman for a week and he was great. He didn’t take any crap from anybody, and was quick to jump in with his own credible views. Newman’s been hugging a desk for too long. No longer a journalist. Time for a seat in the senate (Jim Munson) or a posting as a consular general somewhere (Pam Wallin). Eric would probably be bored stupid after a while, and certainly couldn’t keep up the rah rah Liberals bias that dominates the Mother Corpse.
The sad part Iron Lady, is that Newman’s show *could* be a hard-hitting and topical news program. How I long for a balanced and evenly represented political roundtable type show. (cue the anti-American remarks from the left).
I guess that’s pretty much the nub of it. In the States, even though Republicans and Democrats hate each other’s guts, they recognize each other’s *legitimacy*. This has not existed in Canada for decades, and the libs are to blame for the cultivation of this mindset.
Just sent this to the CBC:
“I wish it would just go away”??
“I wish it would just go away”??
How on earth do you justify putting a so-called political commentator on a national telecast discussing one of the most serious issues facing this miserable excuse of a federal government, when all she can offer for insight is, “I wish it would just go away”?
You do political discourse in this country an extreme disservice by so cavalierly brushing off such a serious issue. You are in your own way directly feeding into the cynicism of Canadians who are increasingly tuning out of the political process, by refusing to do your duties as journalists and hold the government to account for its actions. You refuse to show disgust, you refuse to call the Liberal actions all the disparaging names they deserve — undemocratic, corrupt, morally and ethically bankrupt — you refuse to demand better.
If Ms. Delacourt wishes it would all just go away, by all means, grant her wish — do not feature her on your program again unless she can offer some actual insight in place of vacuous Liberal-slanted apologies.
Snowbunnie,
We are in agreement that the CPC is doing “God’s work.” But if you think they are doing everything right way then I think your passion has gotten in the way.
I am NOT saying that their tactical errors are the story or should be the story…but boneheaded manouvuers like not copying a file to a damn CD properly, not double checking it is bush league…you cant say that it wouldnt have been better if that didnt happen…you cant say that taking 13 days of silence after revealing it was a good thing as opposed to Kate’s suggestion of a quote of the day release….
It isnt about convincing you and me…..it is about convincing about 1/4 of the people who voted Liberal in the last election, people who dont look as deeply in to the issues. Playing like little league doesnt help.
Re OJ….they had a case and they let it get destroyed….unless you are saying you think OJ was innocent…destroyed by opponents who knew it better, presented it better and played to their audience, the people who voted on the question, better….despite the truth. Sound familiar?
This isnt monday morning quaterbacking just saying the CPC needs to act tighter and more cohesively if they are going to maximize their votes and grow beyond you and me and a couple of others on the board. And generally they are doing a decent job…and yes they ARE decent people.they just need to be better, better than the other guys because they arent the natural majority in this country, and they arent the incumbent…
I think the CPC is in dire need of some professional help. Maybe Dick Morris is available.
I know its now pretty much a dead horse… the CPC has been vindicated and the proof is now up at Grewal’s site, but isn’t editing tapes to distort perceptions and only show the side that the editor wants to show the bread and butter of (specially Canadian) journalists? Why is the press so up in arms about a (FALSE) accusation of something they do on a daily basis?
Stephen,
Your points about the ineptness of OJ’s prosecution team are valid but your conclusion is wrong. The verdict was pay back for the acquittal of the cops whose vicious and brutal beating of Rodney King was caught on videotape.
The jury was sequestered for 266 days but took only a couple of hours to reach a verdict. They had their minds made up before they began deliberations and were determined to acquit despite overwhelming evidence of guilt.
The same may be said about MSM (and those who take their lead from MSM) and the Liberals. The focus of MSM is not whether the Liberals offered Grewal implicit rewards for not voting against the budget but whether the tapes of those conversations are pristine. It’s a distraction which enables them to avoid deliberating over the ethical shortcomings of “their team”.
Could somebody please explain why all the fuss over whether Grewal was offered a bribe when we know Stronach was offered and accepted a bribe and no one’s talking about her ethics or the ethics of her receiving a cabinet post in return for keeping the Liberals in office. Why does she get a pass? Does anyone believe she would have crossed the floor without getting a cabinet position?
The main distinction between the two tranactions is that in the case of Stonach the bribe was offered and accepted and in the case of Grewal the transaction was not completed. If the overt and explicit bribe to Stronach was above board then why are we bothering with the implicit bribe to Grewal?
There is more to the tapes than the mere hint of bribery – there is coaching on how to lie; on how to maintain “plausible deniability” for the Prime Minister; coaching on what “spin or story” to give as in: not wanting to allign with the Bloc; “my constituents don’t want an election right now” …do these statements sound a bit familiar as in Belinda and Cadman.
Two of the most powerful men in our country are caught coaching someone how to lie and saying they will to and so will the Prime Minister.
The ethical bar is now so very very low that the suspicion of deceipt will taint the Liberal government until we can get rid of the liars at the top.
If they will lie about the little things what more have they lied about?
For those who are amazed by the indifference shown by the average citizen to the recent events. Here’s an example of why that is.
“Joan Felt, a contemporary of Woodward and the daughter of “Deep Throat” himself, didn’t know who he was.”
Scroll down to – Bob Who?
(Not Joes brother.)
Snowbunny and old squid, I watched Newman today too. It all went pretty much as expected and I’d like to add to your list of those I’d like to slap: Screecher, Brison, Volpe, Dosanj (I wanted to slap him when he was Premier of B.C. – a sorry useless bag of jelly he was there!), NEWMAN, and Greg Weston who was the ‘tokan’ Conservative. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
The ONLY part of that Liberal ‘Love In’ that caught my attention was Newman stealing a line from The Captain, over at Captain’s Quarter’s. He referred to this ‘tape thing’ as “the dog that didn’t bark”. It was out of context ,of course, but he could never think of a line like that himself so he just had to use it. I laughted out loud.
The Captain has that as a heading for one of his American blogs. MSM ‘reporters’ are a disgrace and I think they know it, they avoid talking about the corruption because they lack the vocabulary to spin the angle in favor of the Liberal/ND outfit that they MUST please. Didn’t any of them go to school?