Apparently, voicing the same opinion as Jack Layton and Gille Duceppe – that Tim Murphy committed an offense under the Criminal Code in suggesting that rewards would come the way of certain Conservative members if they were to abstain – can get you sued;
Andrew Coyne is being sued by the Prime Minister’s Chief of Staff Tim Murphy for libel. There’s no other details on exactly what Coyne wrote that was so libelous, but I’m guessing it’s the column in the National Post that directly accused Murphy of breaking the law. Coyne has not put the column up on his site as he usually does, and his site has shut down comments and has had no new content added for a couple of days. Something’s happened; it may be the thuggish hand of the Liberal Party, or it may be a bad case of stomach flu.
Debbye Stratigacos of Being American in T.O. and I feel that the Prime Minister’s office should not be able to shut down the questioning of their ethics with legal threats and have decided to post the column. Because of copyright issues, we’ll both post just half of it. If Andrew Coyne requests we take it down, we will, but for now, here’s the first part of the offending column.
Debbye has more.
Correction According to this Globe & Mail piece titled “Layton joins call for probe into MP’s allegations”, Murphy is “considering” suing Duceppe, too.
Now, why not Jack Layton, do you suppose? Or is he granted “immunity” so long as he remains a member of da Family?
update
Coyne explains why his comments section has been closed. It’s a reminder of why I asked a couple of days ago for folks here to keep it in check. It’s one thing to get pissy – indeed, I think that having a place to allow readers to let off steam is an important function of blogs – it’s quite another to piss in your own bed.
another update: My presumption that Coyne was “voicing the same opinion as Jack Layton and Gille Duceppe” is inaccurate. (The original quote at Autonomous Source has updated as well).
ET: Excellent. It’s amazing how effective a well-considered post can be without resorting to an exercise in name-calling and false accusations. As an example, on AC’s blog a woman posted an objection to a “gentleman” referring to a senator as a “broad” rather than “woman” and of course the “gentleman” responded with a huge dose of what he considered to be witty vitriol which was extremely embarrassing to me and, I’m sure, the woman. Hey! I’m OT. To return, your post is the stuff I look for when I get the time to surf the blogs. Thank you and thank you too, Kate for hosting him.
BC Con:
Thanks for your third polite reinforcement of the “no vitriol” code.
At the risk of sounding uncharitable, I think everyone has the point by now.
What’s happening to AC should outrage other journalists, but as Lorrie Goldstein pointed out this a.m., they’re too self-absorbed/serving to jeopardize their own skins for something as lame as free speech. Let’s face it, journalism these days is more a case of marketing and rewriting press releases, and that’s about it. The MSM are marketers not reporters. Somebody earlier pointed out to CPC media relations. I think they need an overhaul.I’m going to offer my services to my local guy ’cause that’s what I do in the sometimes real world. There is a lot more that should be done than is being done. Have you noticed the Libs are putting their young women out front and centre to appeal to that segment of voters? Tories need an image overhaul that doesn’t include reinventing themselves. And more than anything, they have to give the brush-off to MSM excluding Tory-friendly media like the Sun and (grudgingly, here) the NP. You won’t get respect by being a pushover, particularly among a group who have no code of ethics to begin with.
andrew is probably shaking in his boots right now, and for good reason i might add: he is running against a set of ruthless individuals, whom have pulled the first ever dethroning of a sitting prime minister. the same gang has just trashed hundreds of years of parliamentary tradition.
given the goliath he is up against, i can respect his decision to scrub his blog. the name calling in the last entry in the blog, imo, is an insight into the mind of a guy threatened by the liberal party, with court action. given that around 90% of the judges named in ontario in the past 12 years are liberal, what is the probability of judging the case in front of one?
and don’t think for a second that going to appeals will solve the problem!
as i’ve said yesterday, i am willing to put money where my mouth is and contribute to his defense fund. i urge the rest of the gang think about that too.
“…the name calling in the last entry in the blog, imo, is an insight into the mind of a guy threatened by the liberal party,…”
What did you mean by that, EPU? can you flesh it out for me?
clearthinker:
“overrun with western separatists, Bilderberg conspiracy theorists and various other cranks”
“I have no desire for this site to serve as a clubhouse for hard-right wackos”
Thanks, EPU, but did you mean he was denouncing and insulting western separatism because he was afraid of the Murphy legal imbroglio?
clearthinker:
my own interpretation: start the name calling and try to dissociate as fast as possible, to have a reasonable defence if needed. it’s only logical, imo, for him to try to build defences as fast as possible. the libs don’t play games!
I am a former member of Reform/Canadian Alliance and an active member of the CPC. I also fully support Stephen Harper’s leadership.
And, I have no problem with Joe Clark becoming GG.
He’s a much better choice for GG than most people I could imagine Paul Martin choosing.
Boy, if it were true, that would be a shame.
AC always struck me as unflappable in matters of principle. But as I wrote in an earlier comment, I was certainly taken aback and even insulted by his unnecessary condemnation of western separatists as a group of right wing wackos.
I happen to be one of those people who believe it must be considered and threatened, even as a last resort — as a viable way in which to regain our rights as western Canadian taxpayers and citizens.
Maybe he was just having a bad day….
You’re right, two cents, he could do far worse. And probably will.
I hear David Akhenakew (sp?) is available.
clearthinker: Then again the volume of postings and some of the crankiness really were starting to crowd out the host. Check out the following artistic rendering of the last days of his blog:
http://art.half.ebay.com/prod130/2416910.jpeg
His stated reasons are a fairly good place to start. And of course the suit doesn’t exactly leave him extra free time.
You’re probably right, HRW.
LOL (Where did you get that link?)
Just googled for “thidwick”. It’s from a Dr. Sueuss story.
The first premise of a serious discussion is to start from seriously stated intentions and to seriously demonstrate otherwise. Assuming the worst and putting the burden of proof on the accused, just doesn’t cut it.
Not lumping you in their clearthinker, but AC was probably getting diminishing returns from the time he invested to generate serious discussion on his blog. He’ll likely find another way to try another version of his experiment.
Here we go folks. The loonies have decided its time to start slagging AC. How soon the worm turns. Twenty-four hours ago he was a hero. Now he’s (a) a wimp who caved into the Libs and MSM or (b) a Dr Sueuss psuedo-scientist who has the gall to question the motives and behavior of the right-wing wackos. I’m a social AND fiscal conservative and I dislike red tories but good god what’s to become of the CPC with these back-stabbers around? Obviously they belong in the LPC.
Happy to contribute to AC’s defence. I think we’ve seen the shape to come vis a vis media, if today’s Toronto Star profile of Tim Murphy is anything to go by. It appears that the media no longer care about freedom of speech since they rely on PMO news releases anyway. That said, the Sob & Wail has been diligent in its coverage of Gomery, which I find puzzling for a Liberal mouthpiece. Asper could make life very difficult for the Librano$ if he turned his staff loose – really loose – to write what they want. I think his liberalism might be too in-bred. AC doesn’t strike me as the type who will be cowed by this. Rather, I think it’ll get his back way up and he’ll call in some markers for backup (Steyn, Frum, and of course, Christie Blatchford).
BC Con, Calm down and re-read. I post the Seuss link. ‘m a Geissel fan AND an AC fan. As AC stated his blog and the quality of discussion were getting overwhelmed of late. Kudos to him for saying so.
I’ll never know whether I was one of the “whackos,” but I wasn’t prepared to get involved in the “Joe Clark” thread. That was just plain off-the-wall…
As for Western Separatism, I don’t remember advocating it — I’m more of a reluctant Alberta separatist myself. Emphasis on the “reluctant,” with a side order of sadness.
Anyway, lots of people are missing one important point: it’s Andrew’s blog. In the end, he can bloody well do what he wants, ’cause he’s paying the dime. He’s not infringing on your right of free speech — he’s simply saying “Stop crapping on my couch and get outta my house!”
He’s got that right. As for the other stuff he’s removed, he may be doing it for simple legal expediency, until such time as the whole Tim Murphy imbroglio gets resolved. Can’t say I blame him.
The loss of comments at Coyne’s is a real shame. I enjoyed reading the best of those as much as Andrew’s words. There are many very articulate people that were frequently contributing to a usually excellent discussion.
I hope it will continue here, and that we have learned enough from Coyne shutting down that Kate won’t have to do something similar here.
These forums are necessary – at least for me. I learn a great deal from the community that develops around these blogs.
Thanks for remaining open for business, Kate, and I promise I will do my part to allow you to keep comments open.
Where are we headed? The Third Reich?
Posted by: ET at May 22, 2005 12:19 PM
T, not he third recih…..
…. the second familly compact!
The Desmarais Familly.
Garth and BC Con:
Please settle down, people. Nobody’s slagging AC here. In fact, if you read back, every one of us has sympathized not only with his current legal woes but also that he had to close down his comments board. Harmless speculation about the potential reasons he shut down is not disrespectful in any way. To a person we have said how much we admire and respect the man.
As for you in particular BC Con, for someone who was so very concerned about decorum and civility just a short time ago, it didn’t take you long to unsheath the machete and show your true nature.
“The loonies have decided its time to start slagging AC…. now he’s (a) a wimp who caved into the Libs and MSM or (b) a Dr Sueuss psuedo-scientist who has the gall to question the motives and behavior of the right-wing wackos.”
Nice.
ET: You better be carefull or you will lose your job. I used to work in the Education system too, trouble was I really liked it and I taught FACTS. I had grade five students writing compound-complex sentences and learning the parts of speech!! I was teaching ‘special ed’ and my students were tutoring the rest of the class and sometimes the teachers. I was ‘let go’ for no reason. My Principle gave me top marks but my Principle was the wife of the Reform Candidate in 1995 and I was supporting her husband. The Lib/ND outfit who control education were “not amused.” The Principle lost her job right after the election on some trumped up charges on too much control over students. It was all bogus,and people were caught in lies but it happened anyway. A lot of those accusations were leveled by ‘Red Tories” proping up the Lib who had won the riding. Does Belinda suprise me? Not at all, I too ,saw it comming. Like a recurring nightmare.
Since then I have applied for many government jobs that I am qualified for and I don’t even get an interview – I am on the ‘do not call list’ I can’t even get substitute teaching days. I am not rich and I have no power here in Whitehorse so I cannot raise a stink and get any notice. Whitehorse is the petrie dish for Canada, it is a 29,000 population of gov’t employees and gov’t dependant business’s – open your yap and they starve you economically until you are FORCED out. The real Yukoners have almost all left this territory and it has been ‘repopulated’ with gov’t friendly ND/LIb supporters (take note Alta.).
There is nothing for me to lose so I say what I like – I wonder if I would do this if I had a $100,000.00 a year job on the line? I hope so – but I don’t know, money for not much work is a pretty nice way to live and you get interested in ‘other things’. The smug are always affluent – Canada is no exception. Read “We the Living” by Anne Rand.
If it smells like a rat, looks like a rat and stinks like a rat it probably is a rat. If it has a tail, four legs, whiskers, eats garbage, ruins your walls and moves in uninvited and unwelcome, is a rodent and is unhealthy for humans it is a rat or a mouse – it is not a chipmonk.
I forgot to add this with my Anne Rand novel; read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms given to the Soviet citizens in 1928 – it is online – then read Canada’s. I think Mr. Trudeau copied that when he was over there supporting Stalin. Trudeau was too far left for the CCF so he joined the Liberal Party.
I had a dream…. that sounds familiar….. in the dream I was surfing the web when I found a site http://www.you have been conned, upon entering the site ( remember this was a dream) I found out how so many Canadians have been conned into beliveing things that are just not true. It also broke down all Liberal promises so that people could see these things from the eyes of a con-artist explaining in a legalese fashion where the con is. It explained why “waiting for Gomery to finish” does not mean what most think. You can all imagine how sad I was when I woke up and I realised there was no http://www.you‘ve been conned site. Should have called it a nightmare.
I was part of AC’s posts last night. There was a lot of emotion but also some very good posts.
These are emotional times for many Canadians and we do have to maybe focus more on all of the positive steps so many people are taking in trying to become informed.
I think the newscast about the Liberals saying conservatives were angry and narrow minded quite incenced many. One post pointed out that NDP, liberals, the BLOC and many Canadians of no political stripe are rightfully angry these days.
Maybe we have to put our blinders on to these kinds of divisive and broad brushed slurs.
First They Came For The Bloggers
And I didn’t speak out, because – Hey! Wait a minute! Via Debbye of Being American in T.O. and Kate of Small Dead Animals comes the news that Andrew Coyne is being sued for libel by the Chief of Staff…
Sorry but I don’t agree with your ‘don’t piss.. comment.’
I was in the thick and thin there yesterday as many here will tell you..
Sure Andrew is nervous due to the lawsuit and he would be.. but he could have shut the site to comments before he did if that was the issue..
Yesterday, there were to many people what you might call ‘weird comments’ but to others they may have been insightful and truthful too.
Coyne has on a few occasions emailed me and told me that there are certain boundaries he doesn’t want crossed on the site. I respect that, since it is his place, but on the other hand I have to wonder why certain issues are a problem for him and not others?
Oh and he summed up the whole deal last night but saying: Bilderbergers and gay infiltration of politics…
Nuff said..
Brian Walsh: We’ve been wondering when you would show up.
You wrote “I was in the thick and thin there yesterday as many here will tell you..” Absolutely right! And you were one of the worst with intemperate and inane remarks.
You further wrote: “Coyne has on a few occasions emailed me and told me that there are certain boundaries he doesn’t want crossed on the site”. Why was it necessary for Coyne to email warnings to you? You obviously didn’t listen and were one of the main players who have caused the suspension of the comment part of AC’s blog.
No one quarrels with fair comment and the expression of diverse views. I trust you will keep your comments within the bounds of good judgement (I hope you saved and will review AC’s emails to you) and refrain from the wild-eyed stuff that could place Kate’s blog in jeopardy to the degree she would need to take the same action as AC.
Whatever happened to “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”?
BC Con: Sorry, but today you’re in real danger of coming off like a geeky hall monitor trying his best to please the teachers. Please keep that in mind as you lurk behind the cyber-lockers with the shiny PC badge you pinned on your lapel and wait to pounce upon unsuspecting “wrongdoers”.
Clear: Please read the first para of my last sentence. I believe in free speech and the right of expression but these are rights and privileges that are in danger of being lost when abused. I’m not lurking here or anywhere but I am certainly pissed that when things got out of hand the other night on AC’s blog and I posted to suggest toning down the racist and sexist comment certain folks crapped all over me and a couple of others who express opinion similar to mine. Remember the poor woman who posted that she thought it inappropriate to refer to Senator LaBreton as a “broad”? Remember the abuse she got for her trouble? And how about the fellow who identified himself as a Canadian of Japanese extraction? Remember the comment he got when he stated his reservations toward the remarks of the MP for Winnipeg-Charleswood even though he ended up by saying the MP offered an apology and he forgave Mr. Fletcher? I won’t even bother to mention the Joe Clarke and “gay-MP” garbage that was posted. Those things were over the top and now we know the results of those intemperate remarks; no more comments on AC’s blog.
All I’m interested in is to try to see sda remain as it is – a free expression of various opinion without the loonies going bonkers and causing Kate to either edit or shut down the comments section.
Sooooo …. if you are serious when you offer the quote “I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it”, I am asking that you will extend me the same courtesy without a need to follow it up by dumping on me or anyone else you may not like.
I’m not dumping on you, BC Con. Far from it.
I’m just suggesting that you have already made your self-evident point countless times and that you were in danger of undermining your own cause by doing so. So stop the harping and contribute something worthwhile. You’ll get a better reaction, I assure you.
With respect to your attempts to instill civility into the AC slugfest the other night, I have no comment, because I wasn’t there and I have no idea what transpired. Perhaps you were justified.
I will say though, that a few of those instances you shared with us are hardly earthshattering. IMHO calling someone a “broad” in the heat of the moment is not a cause for hyperventilation. Far worse things could have been said.
As for the Japanese fellow, I’m afraid I have zero sympathy. I speak and write Japanese, have many Japanese friends, I am married to a Chinese woman and I have been an avid student of Asian history and literature for decades. You will not find a person with more admiration for the Japanese race and culture than me.
HOWEVER, the incontravertible fact here is that the Japanese (or Japs, as they were known) WERE bastards in the period leading up to and during the second World War. They were animalistic, bloodthirsty and sadistic in their treatment of Koreans, Chinese and fellow asiatics (the Rape of Nanjing, etc.) , never mind the way they mistreated and slaughtered countless western prisoners and combatants. (see Kate’s recent post for just one example)
THIS IS HISTORY. YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT, OR WISH IT AWAY.
Mr. Unknown of Japanese descent might feel uncomfortable when confronted by these facts, but he can rest assured that he is not being held responsible for them. The MP was referring to the behaviour of Imperial Japanese forces during a war 60 years ago, not him or his kids. I would advise him to GET OVER IT. IT HAPPENED. Any idiot can see that, and only a goddamn self-centered fool would expect sympathy or an apology from someone stating the truth.
Read a few books about the war, my friend. Then you’ll realize that the MP was actually being kind when he referred to them only as “bastards”.
As for the Joe Clark stuff I have no comment. If it was gay bashing then perhaps it got out of hand. I don’t condone that sort of stuff.
But do us all a favour and get off your high horse, will you?
Clear: email
I just checked in here, and I’ve read the comments, and I have to say that the opposition to what BCcon has said is quite suprising to me. Perhaps some of you didn’t read a certain someone’s response to the woman who simply pointed out – politely I might add – that his thoughtless and aggressive – and frequent – comments were completely destsructive to any reasonable discourse. What he said to the woman made you feel like you were in a bar listening to some distressed drunk who hated women, but who was so far-gone that he felt his comments were clever. You could almost hear his buddies grunting in the background.
Why anyone here would defend his right to post, on a site which we all apparently valued, is beyond me. I bet that those who have posted here tonight would not tolerate someone being that aggressive and threatening to their sister or mom or girlfriend or wife.
Wide-ranging discourse is STOMPED by such shit, not enlarged.
EBDresden:
Thanks for your comments. It’s all sorted out now by email.
Coyne is not a blogger, just a newspaper columnist with a keyboard.