They’ve been lying at our feet for thousands of years, yet the average dog has a better understanding of English than the average Englishman has of Dog.
They hear “sit, stay, down, stand, come, fetch, outside, car ride, walk, cookie, toy, cat, sic em. Good dog!”
We hear “bark, bark, bark, bark, bark, bark. Bark? “
Our track record in communicating with other species isn’t exactly stellar.
Nonetheless, world leaders who can’t pronounce “Ahmadinejad” (much less solve him), insist on blasting “come git me!” cards into space.
I suppose there’s comfort in the notion that an alien intelligence with the technology to zoom across the vast distances between star systems would be equally progressive in their approach to foreign ecosystems and their cultures. We can hope so, anyway. It’s not like we can do much about it now – the invitations have been sent.
Still, when I look at this and then rotate it counter-clockwise by 90 degrees….
Not to worry. That bit of space junk is traveling through a very, very, very large volume of space. Space is really, really, really big. You may think it’s a long way down to the corner to the chemist, but that’s just peanuts to space. The odds of any other life form finding Voyager is mind-bogglingly small.
I’d be much more worried (and embarrassed) that our television signals have been traveling outwards at the speed of light for half a century. And our radio stations…
Voyager is one speck of space dust traveling extremely slowly and just leaving our solar system. Those radio signals extend in pretty much every direction and have traveled a distance many orders of magnitude greater than Voyager – with a much less inspiring message
All in the Family isn’t gonna make us look very good if the martians haven’t developed sarcasm…
Can you just imagine what aliens must think when they hear DISCO…. Surely an excuse to blow us all up real good.
Yup. With all this technology you’d think that by know someone would have figured out a way to micro-engrave “Get Well Soon” on a small pice of metal – let’s say about 7.62 mm diameter – and deliver it at warp speed to Ahmadinejad.
It’s already happened and the results weren’t very pretty for the “earthlings”. Imagine two Caribs, sitting on the island later to be named San Salvador, and staring east in 1491, and making the same speculations.
Technological people can be very naive.
Gee, was that wok comment racist? (insert smile face here_____)
>>Can you just imagine what aliens must think when they hear DISCO
And how long have we been beaming ‘rap’ out into the universe? I’m expecting the Death Star to appear here any day now.
If they are intelligent enough to know where we are, they are intelligent enough to know to avoid us.
What if the aliens look at the plaques upside down?
TV/Radio signals are not the most likely things to be detected in space. These were usually fairly omni-directional broadcasts.
Most likely to be detected are some of our high-power, focused (beamed) signals such as some radar systems.
However, we already have aliens here on earth and they aren’t intelligent beings. How else can one explain the followers of Al Gore?
Perhaps we should shoot him out into space and he could attract all the vermin of the universe, thus keeping earth pristine.
Frenchie, you’ve got it!
Perhaps we should shoot him (Gore) out into space and he could attract all the vermin of the universe, thus keeping earth pristine.
Bonus, the earth would immediatly cool .5 degree and we could reduce global warming.
Geez, next thing you know Stephen Hawking will tell us we are only A GREAT IDEA in an all encompassing MIND.
Hawking is correct; he’s going purely by mathematical analysis, where he suggests that the universe is so vast and so filled with stars and planets, that it would be mathematically improbable for only ONE of these mass forms to have developed some type of living organism.
This living organism may be only in microbe form, says Hawking, as was the state of our planet millions of years ago, or, it might have evolved, as did ours, into more complex physiological organisms.
Compare the universe to a lottery, and the universe is larger than any such set of numbers. Well, hundreds of thousands win the lowest prizes, akin to microbes, and a few hundred win the larger prizes, akin to more complex organisms, and one or two win the largest prize, akin to an intelligent organism. And this largest prize has to happen only once in that far-off planet.
So it is entirely reasonable to assume that life, i.e., an entity capable of metabolism and reproduction, exists elsewhere in the universe. That’s as far as we can go without evidence; but the deductive hypothesis (that mathematical formula) is an entirely valid reasoning and, in my view, probably correct.
Some of you may remember Fred Saberhagens ” Berserker” series of SF novels from the 70’s 80’s. Basically Misters Gore Suzuki Friedman Indian Railroad Engineer Mann et al ad nausaeum and etc. could be considered as ” Good Life”.
Sincerely,
Too Dumb to comment
This springs to mind-
youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI
From the “come git me!” link.
“NASA-Voyager Makes an Interstellar Discovery”
“The solar system is passing through an interstellar cloud”
I was curious about so many rather large earthquakes, volcano eruptions and other earth moving phenomena of late. There always is a perfectly good explanation of why. Now I know
Now if this came about every @5000 years or so, the Maya were on to something.
ET said: (I’m paraphrasing)
The universe is filled with stuff, so much stuff that it uncountable and, therefore, it is improbable that life does not exist elsewhere.
Of course, there are no numbers.
ET actually said: “So it is entirely reasonable to assume that life…exists elsewhere in the universe. That’s as far as we can go without evidence…”
Well, ET, I owe you one. You have put a smile on my face that will last all day.
P.S. If you want the numbers I would be glad to supply them.
The whole concept preceeds Hawking by a couple decades, and is known as the ‘DFrake Equation’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
I like ET’s comparison to a lottery, but keep in mind that there have to be multiple ‘big winners’ in the same draw. A big winner in the previous week wouldn’t have any influence. In the case of this topic, an intelligent life form that ceased to exist 20,000 years ago wouldn’t find Pioneer…we would have to find their ruins.
Sorry, slippery fingers.
That should be ‘Drake Equation’
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
ET,
Would you give an opinion on this mathematical analysis?
From a speech by Michael Crichton
http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-ourenvironmentalfuture.html
THE CASE FOR SCEPTICISM ON GLOBAL WARMING
National Press Club
Washington DC
January 25, 2005
“This is the famous Drake equation from the 1960s to estimate the number of advanced civilizations in the galaxy.”
N=N*fp ne fl fi fc Fl
Then he said,
“The problem with this equation is that none of the terms can be known. As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from “billions and billions” to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. The mathematical appearance is deceptive. In scientific terms — by which I mean testable hypotheses — the Drake equation is really meaninglessness.”
This note is not to diminish the idea of life elsewhere.
Lev is absolutely correct with his quote. Drake is empty mathematics which simply says “the universe is vast, therefore the chance intelligent like exists elsewhere is high.”
Anyone who understands how the Earth formed and how life began, was snuffed out nuerous times, should understand that components of the Drake Equation are infinitesimally small. How many planets have an iron core which creates a magnetic field, with a relatively large moon to stabilize the orbit, just the right distance from a stable star for liquid water and a large planet in the outer solar system cleaning up planet killing rocks? The Earth was formed by a large collision, fed mass and water by collisions, but relatively protected from collisions. It’s a Goldilocks planet.
I haven’t been on your web for years. Very interesting. I enjoyed the 22 comments at this time but of course the number of comments do change momentarily. I remember you talking about art and it adds so much to use art anywhere.
Anarchy is really what is going on right here in my life. No more for me right now.
victor – sorry for my black hole brain, but I don’t understand your point.
I didn’t say the universe is filled with numbers but with matter/energy. Nor did I say that it is uncountable for that would suggest infinity whereas I’m operating from a perspective that the nature of the transformation of energy to mass in the universe is of a finite nature. I doubt if there are utterly different chemicals elsewhere in the universe.
POWinCA – life wasn’t ‘snuffed out’ several times. The particular morphological form of life was ‘snuffed out’ (prehistoric animals, man, plants, etc) but life, as a mode of organization of chemicals into an organism that had a metabolism and could reproduce, DID continue and DID continue to become more complex in this morphology over time. Life wasn’t ‘snuffed out’ even once.
As for other planets, I disagree with your view of the uniqueness of earth. Life could exist elsewhere; there’s no need for it to duplicate the morphological nature that energy/mass took on this planet. It could take another form specific to that planet.
I don’t think that the Drake equation has anything at all to do with what I’m suggesting. I’m talking about the reality of energy to mass, which is a basic reality in our universe and that since this transformation is a ‘given’, then, this also suggests that the transformation could not always be to the most simple forms of matter but would necessarily (yes, I mean that term) evolve into more complex forms of matter. To prevent entropic dissipation.
I’m taking as a basic law not simply that entropy exists but that the constant transformation of matter to more complex forms ( and negentropy or the development of normative laws of morphological formation) is also a basic law.
Therefore, since matter cannot always remain in its most simple form(s) in our universe because that would result in ‘heat death’ entropic closure, it would HAVE to evolve to more complex forms. That’s a life form.
Stephen Hawking has a point,though with the vastness of space I wouldn’t head for the hills just yet.
Chances are another species may develop space travel,and their society could very well be a highly militarized one. The society that made advances in rocket technology was that of NAZI Germany.
So,what if the space aliens were products of that type of culture?
I think I’ll start a sort of “Doomsday” cult based on this, quit my boring job,and watch the money roll in.
Send donations care of my Accountant, Mr.Fenris Badwulf, Mitchieville,Ontario.
Wok, high heat – finally got it, heh !!
Must say, in order to cook up a post that is deep, but not so deep that few ‘get it’, requires the correct combination of sarc, humor and fact put together by someone of exceptional intelligence.
What amazes me about sda – whenever Kate occasionally posts something that is a somewhat new topic, we see a lot of new commenters as well. In this post alone, I see eight new (to me, at least) commenters.
What that suggests – there are thousands of deep thinkers out there who come to sda often but seldom comment. But they are reading and taking note and analyzing. The opposite end of the spectrum in which the MSM is heading – Tabloidism.
Yup, quite the crowd following them. Chicken littles, history begins anew every morning, reward failure not success, the intellectuals and Hollywood actually knows something crowd. The what could go wrongers?
We are not alone, and Windows 7 sucks.
Hawking is using mathematics and ignoring data. For example, only spiral galaxies can support life, all others (the majority) are eliminated. Only our type of star can support life, all others (98%) are eliminated. Those stars must be situated exactly where ours is in the galaxie, all others are eliminated. There is a very narrow habitation zone around such stars, planets outside it are eliminated. The planet an moon must be almost exactly like ours. Many more such criteria are required.
And then there’s the immense problem of life originating. The evidence that it is impossible for life to begin naturally would fill a book.
Many years ago Carl Sagan (and another scientist whose name I have forgotten) calculated that there should be 1 million advanced civilizations in our galaxie. Some years later as information accumulated, he glumly concluded that there should be no life anywhere in our galaxie, including on Earth, and that the existance of life here was akin to a miracle.
Hawking is engaging in wishful thinking.
More Folkfests from Liberal Iffy’s Dinner Clubbe. Beats pumping/pimping Iron.
Menu: NEP Grits & Dionky PET HotDogs (all pork). BYOFork.
Barf Alertalott.
…-
“Liberals outline national food policy
Globe and Mail – Jane Taber – 1 hour ago
Michael Ignatieff is continuing his efforts to try to win back Grit votes in rural ridings with a national food policy promoting homegrown fare.”
ahh, dirtman, you are setting up the ‘Mediocrity Hypothesis’ versus the ‘Rare Earth Hypothesis’.
But to declare, as do the Rare Earth proponents that the requirements for ‘life’ are so complex that it could only happen once is a hypothesis and unproven. All it does is describe THIS planet and its life forms.
But if we accept that our universe is made up of certain chemicals, and that these operate according to basic laws against entropic dissipation, then we must acknowledge that matter must evolve into more complex morphologies. And not just in one site in the universe.
This also suggests an entirely natural cause of the emergence of life. Are you suggesting a metaphysical cause? What evidence do you have?
Clipper
What know you about the Death Star. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away gangster rap was very popular:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6GIGm_wVow
40 light years from earth, you can get 1.3 odds on Boston beating St Louis for the Stanley Cup — take ’em.
Aw, and not a single comment here mentioning the bestest part of the wiki article.
Notice anything, any line missing on the female outline?
Why is it that great scientists are all left-leaning?
I believe more in “life out there” than obama’s accounting.
I have no doubt that life in some form exists but as yet most of us cannot comprehend anything that doesn’t look like us and in a similar environment of being intelligent life. It’s like saying you got to the end of the internet…
The likelyhood there is other life in the universe somewhere is high. The likelihood its smart enough to give us any trouble is low.
The likelihood that its smart, able to -get here- and inclined to give a rip what we’re doing or what we’ve got? Winning the lottery with one ticket looks like a sure thing next to that.
Don’t forget, its just SO much easier to extract organics and metals out of asteroids than it is to go down into a gravity well and do it. In space you just use a big mirror, on a planet you have to dig a hole.
Plus, why would they need to deal with the freaky Humans when they can just go -anyplace else- and have the joint to themselves?
Phantom nails it. Remember, FTL travel is made up fantasy – it doesn’t even qualify as science fiction. Of course there’s life out there, lots of it, but it’s never going to get here and we’re never going to get there, and neither are any civilizational artifacts either of us might spew out over the time scales we’re talking about.
Well, I for one welcome our new alien masters!
Goes to show how times have changed doesn’t it?
Today the illustration sent, would have been two gay black men, a feminist and some Muslim men beating their four wives, romantically singing Kumbaya and sipping lattes together in Al Gores massive bedroom hot tub…………
Not to worry though the new American president has realized that NASA seems to have been an exclusionary club regardless of affirmative action and has vowed to shut it down. So no embarrassing postcards to outer space from here on in for any rednecks out there…………….
Of course the twilight zone was way ahead of hawkings – check out the “to serve man” episode. To serve man was a cookbook.
Good ole Hawkins still trying to perpetuate the atheist mythology. Since life is a thoroughly natural occurrence then the universe equally a natural occurrence must therefore be teeming with life. I did get a chuckle out of his admission to the ‘rare earth’ concept when he acknowledged that we probably wouldn’t recognize alien life as being life.
However since Hawkins and all other atheists can’t define life beyond it being a bunch of amino acids bumping into each other discussing and debating life becomes pointless
No question the illustration on the Pioneer plaque has fulfilled its mission- to inform alien beings of the existence of intelligent life on Earth.
So effective in fact, that it lured one to this planet.
Oh look, there it is now! Just 4 threads previous under the caption “The Man as Metaphor”. Not particularily intelligent looking , or of physical prowess, it seems unlikely it would manage to function in this environment! It has also managed to assemble a motley gaggle of misfits to its aura, but they appear ro be of similar low functionality.
One can only hope it will soon be able to find its way back from whence it came!
Guys, its Stephen Hawking, of Hawking black hole radiation fame.
Not Hawkins. And I’m pretty sure not an atheist either.
Here’s what will really happen:
Aliens will discover the Voyager plaque, and then descend upon the Earth, giving us access to unlimited power sources, amazing farming and animal husbandry technology that will enable us to feed all of humanity, and generally keep the peace amongst the conficting factions of humanity.
And their plans will all be laid in their book (regratably, only available in their native language): “To Serve Man”.
(for all the Twilight Zone fans out there).
“However since Hawkins and all other atheists can’t define life beyond it being a bunch of amino acids bumping into each other discussing and debating life becomes pointless”
I could say the same for those that believe in an all mighty being that created everything from his/her mind. No need for debate, the science is settled.
The diagram is a pre-Internet Space Goatse.
Take that, aliens!
Ross Mckitrick touches on something germane to the discussion in his book, “Taken by Storm”, nascience, i.e. not knowing or not even being able to know enough about a given phenomenon to make any useful predictions or even to make any useful model of the phenomenon. Knowing the planetary/stellar/evolutionary parameters necessary for the development of some form of life and the frequency of those occurrences is something we simply don’t know. We have a crude understanding, we think, of the parameters within which life and especially intelligent life evolved on our planet. But we really don’t know beyond the very extremes, which of those parameters were necessary or sufficient for life to evolve on our planet, what the full range of potential life forms might be, let alone what forms and conditions amenable to the evolution of such forms could be on other planets. Similarly, we have no idea what the frequency of suitable breeding grounds for life is since we have no way of knowing what is “suitable” in the first place. Therefore, with all due respect to Stephen Hawking (loved his books) assigning the probability of life’s occurrence beyond planet earth is a fool’s errand. We plain don’t know.
On February 4, 2008, NASA beamed the Beatles’ song “Across the Universe” over the Deep Space Network in the direction of Polaris, to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the recording of the song, the 50th anniversary of NASA and the beginnings of the Beatles, and the 45th anniversary of the Deep Space Network.
In about 429 years, if there are any intelligent lifeforms in the region of Polaris capable of receiving and decoding that signal, they’ll know exactly where to find the tasty, tasty humans. 😉
The Drake equation is closely related to the Fermi Paradox: if aliens exist, why have we seen no hard evidence?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_paradox
If life is found on Europa or Enceladus, then we’ll be able to dispense with the Drake equation altogether and simply use induction. If life developed both here on Earth and elsewhere in the solar system independently, in what we would consider a lethal environment, then by induction life would be common throughout the universe.
I would rather that we didn’t wait for aliens to come looking for us. We should be the ones spreading out through the solar system and then the galaxy.
Thanks Indiana Homez you made my point.
Gee and all this time I thought it said: Get your free porn here!