You’ll eat bugs, own nothing, wear earmuffs and be happy.
17 Replies to “‘In a cold winter, the pump can howl like a small jet engine’”
All the heat pump owners I know are happy with theirs. Split air conditioners too. I have a feeling this issue is specific to a few models.
Ah, yes. With true cost electricity at approximately $0.175 per Kw you are getting 19.400 Bthu`s per $1.00. With a gas cost of approximately $0.40 per cu. m. you are getting 75,000 Bthu`s per $1.00. Advantage to gas at 3.9.
The Heat pump proponents will tell you they perform with a COP of 3.5, maybe even 4.0, which must be true because it says so in the catalogue. The COP is a formulae produced in a similar manner to the EPA mileage figures. And we all know those figures are perhaps good for comparison purposes but little else. House furnaces last a long time, heat pumps, not so much and are expensive. They run all year, surprise. Life cycle costs ?
If you intend to air condition your home, go ahead, use a heat pump. But for heating only, not so much.
Were they told of the ‘cost savings’ when the thermometer goes below -7C? My brother was. His is turned off during those cold days (and nights). The reality is that a heat pump is MORE expensive to operate than more traditional energy sources the colder it is outside.
And yes… with that knowledge, he too is “happy ” with his heat pump, despite the sunk capital costs he incurred to install one. I don’t see him getting any carbon tax breaks though. He didn’t live in the right place.
But I will ask… how does the noise from a heat pump compare with that of a central air conditioner? I’ve never lived near anyone with a heat pump, but I have had Central A/C in my house, along with pretty much all of my neighbors in a tightly-fitted neighborhood in Ottawa.
Ask any insomniac, sleep is underrated.
Can confirm.
Ditto.
My old place had a mini split in one room. I doubt the outside part was as loud as the inside part once the fan got going. Definitely not much different than the regular AC. Worked good summer and winter except around -20 you’d better get a fire going.
We have a ground source heat pump (no subsidy!!!); have had it since the house was built in 1995. It works well, but once it gets to about -20 C, it does get loud. As it gets colder (i.e., down to -40 C) and windier than that, it gets nosier and runs at a high speed for most of the night (during the day, much better as the house has a passive solar design and extreme cold in winter is usually quite sunny). We use a wood stove as supplement when it gets cold, burning about 1 1/2 face cords during a typical winter. Ground source heat pumps are generally much more efficient than ASHPs. It ticks me off – big time – that governments keep subsidizing people to encourage them to adopt their ‘preferred’ technology.
Yea they are loud if a heavy frost takes place it clings to the blades and makes quite a racket.
Prediction:
1. Government solves the loudness of the heating unit by removing the decibel threshold requirement.
2. Trucks pull into Ottawa and blow their horns.
3. Government reinstates the decibel threshold.
4 Rinse Lather Repeat.
And, that is a microcosm of how Government can solve problems. 😀
We’ve been using Heat pump / AC units combined with an high efficiency oil furnace, forced air, since we purchased this house 30+ years ago. We replaced both units about 11 years ago. Re-did most of the insulation and replaced old windows also. Went with a metal roof about 20 yrs ago too.
We use about 250 liters of oil a year, only when very cold outside or when doing defrosting. 1000 ltr oil tank.
Ottawa Hydro has very decent rates, comparably. Built in a manual generator set up in case of power lose, which is also too frequent an occurrence (4 events, about 45 liters of gas this year).
Compared our averaged annual costs against neighbours with gas and AC systems, and we’re a little better.
Yes, they are noisy. Depending on the house layout it may be difficult to place the HP/AC unit away from windows. The forced air fan is also louder than I’d like as it is right under the living room.
It is Canada, it is Ottawa, it gets pretty cold often here as well as quite hot and humid. Cost of doing business.
“Re-did most of the insulation”
_______________________
That’s always a big one that people tend to overlook. Use the wrong R-value in the northern climates and you’re living in a sieve.
Fortunately I do the majority of the work, saves a s**t pile of cash.
All rooms that were redone had the exterior wall studs strapped so I could increase R value, though just replacing the old tar paper/green battens would have been a big saver. Every exterior wall was very heavily air sealed, thicker plastic sheeting and a little more than needed sealing glop at joints and edges.
Blown in insulation is hip deep in the attic, and extra ventilation to insure proper air movement.
Unfinished basement so easy to improve that insulation.
The only part of these jobs hired out was drywall, I hate tape and plastering.
Just another reason why I’m planning my ESCAPE FROM CALIFORNIA …
Can’t afford to heat our house … heat pump or nat. gas
Can’t afford to dry our clothes
And God help us if we use energy during PEAK hours of the day or at the PEAK of winter/summer
And why does the PUC … who is supposed to be protecting the consumer from monopolistic public utilities greed? Simple. Global Warming. The CAPUC is fully on board with economically PUNISHING energy consumption on the theory that energy consumption is “destroying the planet”. So why not bankrupt anyone who cannot afford usurious energy rates? Bankrupt all those little people. Let ‘em all freeze in the dark.
An air source heat pump sounds exactly like central air-conditioning, only it makes noise during the winter months. We had one in Sudbury, Ontario. Their main problem is below a certain temperature they don’t throw off enough heat and you have to switch to an “emergency electrical heating coil” – powered by the electrical grid. Big electrical bills from December to March. In those days natural gas was super cheap so I switched over when the heat pump went TU. $70/mn for nat gas in Sudbury in 1999.
I now have 2 geothermal units (Tetco). They work down to -19 deg C and then the place gets cold. And yes, they are noisy. But it’s not the fan. It’s the heat exchanger. So we have them in an enclosed furnace home. The noise is very low frequency so, if you listen carefully, you can hear it through much of the house. Me? I sleep like a baby.
Bravo, Minister Duncan! Wonderful to ‘walk the talk’ with this fine move, and to state that he takes responsibility for the decision to remove the tax. Excellent.
I installed a Mitsubishi cold climate heat pump in a new house at the beginning of this year. Good to -20C and puts out enough heat to keep the house warm without using the heat strip. Also have a propane fireplace for backup. The noise is not bad, up to 55db when the outdoor fans are running but don’t hear it much. Indoor blower not noisier than a gas furnace. HVAC must be designed properly to realize the efficiency from the heat pump. House is also super insulated. No natural gas in my area just propane. System works for me (southwest Ontario).
All the heat pump owners I know are happy with theirs. Split air conditioners too. I have a feeling this issue is specific to a few models.
Ah, yes. With true cost electricity at approximately $0.175 per Kw you are getting 19.400 Bthu`s per $1.00. With a gas cost of approximately $0.40 per cu. m. you are getting 75,000 Bthu`s per $1.00. Advantage to gas at 3.9.
The Heat pump proponents will tell you they perform with a COP of 3.5, maybe even 4.0, which must be true because it says so in the catalogue. The COP is a formulae produced in a similar manner to the EPA mileage figures. And we all know those figures are perhaps good for comparison purposes but little else. House furnaces last a long time, heat pumps, not so much and are expensive. They run all year, surprise. Life cycle costs ?
If you intend to air condition your home, go ahead, use a heat pump. But for heating only, not so much.
Were they told of the ‘cost savings’ when the thermometer goes below -7C? My brother was. His is turned off during those cold days (and nights). The reality is that a heat pump is MORE expensive to operate than more traditional energy sources the colder it is outside.
And yes… with that knowledge, he too is “happy ” with his heat pump, despite the sunk capital costs he incurred to install one. I don’t see him getting any carbon tax breaks though. He didn’t live in the right place.
But I will ask… how does the noise from a heat pump compare with that of a central air conditioner? I’ve never lived near anyone with a heat pump, but I have had Central A/C in my house, along with pretty much all of my neighbors in a tightly-fitted neighborhood in Ottawa.
Ask any insomniac, sleep is underrated.
Can confirm.
Ditto.
My old place had a mini split in one room. I doubt the outside part was as loud as the inside part once the fan got going. Definitely not much different than the regular AC. Worked good summer and winter except around -20 you’d better get a fire going.
We have a ground source heat pump (no subsidy!!!); have had it since the house was built in 1995. It works well, but once it gets to about -20 C, it does get loud. As it gets colder (i.e., down to -40 C) and windier than that, it gets nosier and runs at a high speed for most of the night (during the day, much better as the house has a passive solar design and extreme cold in winter is usually quite sunny). We use a wood stove as supplement when it gets cold, burning about 1 1/2 face cords during a typical winter. Ground source heat pumps are generally much more efficient than ASHPs. It ticks me off – big time – that governments keep subsidizing people to encourage them to adopt their ‘preferred’ technology.
Yea they are loud if a heavy frost takes place it clings to the blades and makes quite a racket.
Prediction:
1. Government solves the loudness of the heating unit by removing the decibel threshold requirement.
2. Trucks pull into Ottawa and blow their horns.
3. Government reinstates the decibel threshold.
4 Rinse Lather Repeat.
And, that is a microcosm of how Government can solve problems. 😀
We’ve been using Heat pump / AC units combined with an high efficiency oil furnace, forced air, since we purchased this house 30+ years ago. We replaced both units about 11 years ago. Re-did most of the insulation and replaced old windows also. Went with a metal roof about 20 yrs ago too.
We use about 250 liters of oil a year, only when very cold outside or when doing defrosting. 1000 ltr oil tank.
Ottawa Hydro has very decent rates, comparably. Built in a manual generator set up in case of power lose, which is also too frequent an occurrence (4 events, about 45 liters of gas this year).
Compared our averaged annual costs against neighbours with gas and AC systems, and we’re a little better.
Yes, they are noisy. Depending on the house layout it may be difficult to place the HP/AC unit away from windows. The forced air fan is also louder than I’d like as it is right under the living room.
It is Canada, it is Ottawa, it gets pretty cold often here as well as quite hot and humid. Cost of doing business.
“Re-did most of the insulation”
_______________________
That’s always a big one that people tend to overlook. Use the wrong R-value in the northern climates and you’re living in a sieve.
Fortunately I do the majority of the work, saves a s**t pile of cash.
All rooms that were redone had the exterior wall studs strapped so I could increase R value, though just replacing the old tar paper/green battens would have been a big saver. Every exterior wall was very heavily air sealed, thicker plastic sheeting and a little more than needed sealing glop at joints and edges.
Blown in insulation is hip deep in the attic, and extra ventilation to insure proper air movement.
Unfinished basement so easy to improve that insulation.
The only part of these jobs hired out was drywall, I hate tape and plastering.
Just another reason why I’m planning my ESCAPE FROM CALIFORNIA …
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/pg-e-rate-hike-of-nearly-13-approved-by-cpuc-in-unanimous-vote/ar-AA1k3A7o
Can’t afford to heat our house … heat pump or nat. gas
Can’t afford to dry our clothes
And God help us if we use energy during PEAK hours of the day or at the PEAK of winter/summer
And why does the PUC … who is supposed to be protecting the consumer from monopolistic public utilities greed? Simple. Global Warming. The CAPUC is fully on board with economically PUNISHING energy consumption on the theory that energy consumption is “destroying the planet”. So why not bankrupt anyone who cannot afford usurious energy rates? Bankrupt all those little people. Let ‘em all freeze in the dark.
An air source heat pump sounds exactly like central air-conditioning, only it makes noise during the winter months. We had one in Sudbury, Ontario. Their main problem is below a certain temperature they don’t throw off enough heat and you have to switch to an “emergency electrical heating coil” – powered by the electrical grid. Big electrical bills from December to March. In those days natural gas was super cheap so I switched over when the heat pump went TU. $70/mn for nat gas in Sudbury in 1999.
I now have 2 geothermal units (Tetco). They work down to -19 deg C and then the place gets cold. And yes, they are noisy. But it’s not the fan. It’s the heat exchanger. So we have them in an enclosed furnace home. The noise is very low frequency so, if you listen carefully, you can hear it through much of the house. Me? I sleep like a baby.
Bravo, Minister Duncan! Wonderful to ‘walk the talk’ with this fine move, and to state that he takes responsibility for the decision to remove the tax. Excellent.
I installed a Mitsubishi cold climate heat pump in a new house at the beginning of this year. Good to -20C and puts out enough heat to keep the house warm without using the heat strip. Also have a propane fireplace for backup. The noise is not bad, up to 55db when the outdoor fans are running but don’t hear it much. Indoor blower not noisier than a gas furnace. HVAC must be designed properly to realize the efficiency from the heat pump. House is also super insulated. No natural gas in my area just propane. System works for me (southwest Ontario).