Mutiny in the Ukraine

It's Probably Nothing There Goes The Narrative 141 Comments

In 1917, exhausted by years of trench warfare with no victory in sight, French troops openly mutinied. Fast forward to the Ukraine of today, and we’re now seeing the first hints that Ukrainian soldiers are thinking along similar lines.

An insider close to Zelensky told Time that progress has stalled, with some top commanders allegedly defying orders to advance—even when those orders come directly from the president. “They just want to sit in the trenches and hold the line. But we can’t win a war that way,” the source is quoted saying in the Daily Express.

 

141 Replies to “Mutiny in the Ukraine”

  1. It’s won’t matter SDA military experts have already called it back in Dec 2022 – “Russia has lost – colonista”.

    “Obviously it was over almost a year ago, you “non-military experts” just haven’t realized it yet”. – Rachel Maddow MSNBC

      1. Oh yes joe, The Young Turks and the girls on The View as well, they’ve also been a high level of information lock-step for the SDA military experts.

    3. Yes russia has already lost. The economic/political loses they suffered already outweigh all potential gains even if these were all to be realized (which they will be not).

      2. Colonialista, I tend to agree with you on this. It was never about economic gain. For the past thousand years, it’s been about the desire for Russia to crush the other half of the Eastern Orthodox Church and terminate Ukraine as a separate entity. Putin is simply continuing his imitation of a typical Russian Tsar no different than Ivan the Terrible in the 16th century. Unhappily for Russia, it’s been the doom of their people to be ruled mostly by monsters ever since they drove out the Mongols and the Golden Horde. And that includes ceaseless attempts to destroy the other Orthodox Slavic state.

        1. Yes, but I think they greatly overextended this time. The demographics in russia are disastrous, worse than ever. The debt bubble is insane. All economic indicators show leaking at the seams and crumbling infrastructure. Khrushchevka is literarily collapsing. Ethnic tensions are boiling. All combined will knock russia out of the game for a couple of decades. That period will make 90s look like happy time. And what will emerge may well be (hopefully) fragmented and certainly impoverished. Chicoms will carve out a large piece (although they themselves have serious problems). The disaster in Ukraine has speeded all this up.

  2. Blaming the troops for not wanting to advance into cluster bombs is a problem.. That means tanks with little to no support and we know how that ends.. Face it.. Modern war only works when you can steam roll the entire nation..

    Operation pick them apart so you can roll in like its 1942.. 🙂

    Weapon systems are insane these days and nobody has emptied their strategic reserves to the point where they can’t defend themselves 10X over.. Both sides know this and everything else is propaganda.. Fair game..

    So.. are you going to send 50 000 men and women over the top to take and hold ground?.. Send in all your hardware into a dialed in kill zone that’s 250 km deep?..

    Russia is in the same boat.. Their troops are not interested in eating cluster bombs..

    1. @John”

      So it’s a little strange that the worlds mightiest superpower with all that “think tank, super computer” analytical capability missed something before sending a couple hundred billion dollars and derailing early peace talks isn’t it?

      1. The option was that, or let the second largest country in Europe get steamrolled and eaten up by the Russians (Soviets?), who would then be able to do the same to Moldova, the Balkans, followed by Hungary, Romania, Poland, etc…The US had the interests of the Poles and the Balkans as much as the Ukrainians. It is a situation with no good answer. The position they have taken seems to be the most prudent to me. I know this website loves to pump up the Russians and berate Biden, but this was the best choice available in my opinion. The Russians are experiencing war fatigue on their side just as much. They are having morale problems as well, hell there was a short-lived march on Moscow at one point. It is why the Russians are throwing every wildcard they have onto the table in the hopes of changing the formula they are working with. They have goaded the Iranians into unleashing their Hamas jackals, expect further upheaval in Africa and South America as well.

        1. That steamroller argument never made any sense. Ukraine is an historic part of Russia. The rest of it – Poland, Moldova, the Balkans, Hungary, Romania – not so much. Moscow and Kiev have been fighting each other for dominance for at least 1000 years. The West has no good reason to be involved in this family dispute.

          2. “That steamroller argument never made any sense. Ukraine is an historic part of Russia. The rest of it – Poland, Moldova, the Balkans, Hungary, Romania – not so much. Moscow and Kiev have been fighting each other for dominance for at least 1000 years. The West has no good reason to be involved in this family dispute.”

            You beat me to it….well said. It’s a lazy and unsupportable argument, intended only to justify this callous *American initiated* war of exploitation and profit. And after his experiences here, does anyone really believe that Putin would still be willing to try the same in Poland, Hungary, Romania etc knowing that he would not only be fighting those armies but (by proxy) NATO as well? Again?

            Please.

          3. “Ukraine is an historic part of Russia.”

            Nope. Kiev was a thriving metropolis for centuries when in Muscovy orcs were trading pine cones for sexual favors.

            Russia on the other side is a historic part of Mongol empire. Was created by them, was a Mongol fiefdom for most of russian ignoble history and inherited from Mongols its social and cultural norms. Modern day Russia is a cancerous afterbirth of that empire.

            It is no wonder that civilized people with much longer and richer history refuse to live under a savage yoke. And civilized world has every reason to help civilized people, the reason is called civilization.

            Also Muscovy does not have a thousand years history.

          4. “Ukraine is a historic part of Russia”

            That’s like saying the USA is a historic part of Britain.

          6. Colonialista, again that would be correct. Kyiv was receiving embassies and tribute from the Roman Empire many centuries before Moscow existed. The only other Russian state that existed at that time was the Grand Duchy of Novgorod. And it was kept busy fighting off berserk, murderous hordes of Teutonic Knights.

          7. Yes the republic of Novgorod was a Jewel, the only such entity that survived Mongol Invasions, it thrived and was a beacon of civilization in the region…that is until the Mongol afterbirth from Muscovy slaughtered them all.

        2. @Northbaytrapper

          I keep hearing that.

          So now I’m confused, because in 2022 Russia was going to invade Ukraine then the Baltic nations, the Balkans, then Europe, and then I suppose by extension the whole world. That’s why we sent hundreds of Billions of dollars yea?

          Fast forward to Dec 2022 onward, and Russia is ‘fighting with shovels”, out of ammunition, completely degraded, full of alcoholic prisoner conscripts, no military or navy capability at all. in fact they only started full scale conscription in the fall of 2022, so weren’t they a little light for conquering the world in Spring of 2022? But that’s what we were sold.

          What was the point of all that scare mongering to send hundreds of Billions of dollars while we have millions on food stamps, crumbling infrastructure, and people sleeping in the streets in cars & tents?

          As far as Russia helping Hamas – Don’t know if it’s true, certainly Israel came out and said officially that it was not true. Regardless what do people expect a marginalized country to do when cornered by a large military & economic power – not create proxies if they can? Ukraine is a proxy, a little hypocritical to think others wouldn’t do the same if they could.

          I suspect that Russia can, and if so, that can mean a whole sh*t burger of trouble for us in the west that we have yet to realize.

          2. Ouuuch – is that what a Sunday morning hangover does again? Good to see you finally crawled out of bed.

          3. “Good to see you finally crawled out of bed.”

            Very briefly while your mother went to take a shower.

          5. From her russian clients? That’s ok I use rubbers. You don’t get to call me daddy.

          6. Is that what happened to your Mom that made you all gay and hateful towards Russians? I thought she just dropped you on your head or drank too much, but oooh guess I missed it.

          8. I get it, to much Cope for you in a week. Play some old WW2 Hitler bunker reruns should get you back in the spirit ol boy.

        3. @Northbaytrapper

          While you may be correct, it’s also possible that if we had taken Putin at his word (which I admit, often isn’t worth squat), we might have been able to avoid all of this by doing three very simple things:

          1. Agree to NOT admit Ukraine into NATO,
          2. Stop the Ukrainian government from persecuting ethnic Russians in the Donbass region, and
          3. Dismantle the 40+ ‘Biological Research’ labs that Obama funded in Ukraine.

          But sadly, because cooler heads did not prevail, we’ll never know…

          1. 1) Possible, but I doubt Ukraine goes for any “security gaurantees” considering they had one in the Budapest Memorandum

            2) Kremlin propaganda. Not even worth addressing.

            3) Qtard/Kremlin propaganda. Not even worth addressing.

          2. “While you may be correct, it’s also possible that if we had taken Putin at his word (which I admit, often isn’t worth squat), we might have been able to avoid all of this by doing three very simple things:

            1. Agree to NOT admit Ukraine into NATO,”

            Yes, that would have stopped this war before it even started. Ukraine didn’t qualify for NATO membership anyway (and still doesn’t) but the western news media would not stop yapping about it. They were promised “…not one inch East” in 1990 by the US Secretary Of State James Baker, in return for the reunification of Germany.

            “2. Stop the Ukrainian government from persecuting ethnic Russians in the Donbass region, and”

            Absolutely. The atrocities committed there are well documented and constitute another violation of an existing agreement. Why should Putin trust anything the West says now?

            “3. Dismantle the 40+ ‘Biological Research’ labs that Obama funded in Ukraine.”

            Don’t know much about them, but okay…

          3. @Mango Thonotosassa

            The problem is that Pandora’s Box has now been opened.

            Regardless of any outcome going forward the remaining world outside of the “western world” has decided it wants a big piece of the pie, and doesn’t give a second thought as to how we in the west or our Dear Leaders feel about it.

            The Globalist Elites that claim we are “racists & misogynists” because we don’t want to sex change children on a whim, or have them “learn” Critical Race Theory instead of core educational subjects – did this to us.

            Their greed and neglect of our security & rights is what pushed the world to rise up against us and our children having any sort of prosperous future in a safe world much less their own communities.

          4. “Yes, that would have stopped this war before it even started. Ukraine didn’t qualify for NATO membership anyway (and still doesn’t) but the western news media would not stop yapping about it. They were promised “…not one inch East” in 1990 by the US Secretary Of State James Baker, in return for the reunification of Germany.”

            Doubtful. Also, that comment is taken completely out of context. Even Gorbachev agrees. It’s nothing but Kremlin revisionist history.

            “Absolutely. The atrocities committed there are well documented and constitute another violation of an existing agreement. Why should Putin trust anything the West says now?”

            Good lord, more Kremlin propaganda. Why do you believe Putin when he lies so much? We aren’t in Crimea. Crimea is part of Russia. We arent in Donbas. Donbas is part of Russia. We have nothing to do with Wagner. Wagner is funded by Russia.

            Speaking of agreements, go ahead and look up the Belovezha accord (Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia agreed to split up the USSR) and the Budapest memorandum.

          6. This is a great example. Ukraine has biolabs. Almost every country does. This does not equate to what you think it does.

            I will give you $10,000 for proof that Ukraine has violated the biological weapons convention.

            Russia offered “proof” at the UN and were laughed out of the place. They had evidence that Ukraine has anthrax! Never mind that Ukraine is an agrarian society which means anthrax occurs naturally.

            Where do you think they got the anthrax samples from?

            Russia.

          8. “What Have Fauci’s Friends Been Up To In Ukraine?” – February 27, 2022

            “Beyond the Pentagon’s speedy retreat from various laboratories across Ukraine, the US government erased all online documents in PDF form related to America’s connection to the laboratories…..”

            “Interestingly, the BTRP has a direct connection the EcoHealth Alliance. That’s the same EcoHealth Alliance connected to Dr. Anthony Fauci.” – Israel Unwired

            https://www.israelunwired.com/faucis-friends-bioweapons-ukraine/

          9. Unless you have proof that Ukraine violated the biological weapons convention, you’re just pissing into the wind.

            BTW, the same program that funded Ukraine biolabs also funded Russian ones up until 2014.

          10. Sure go ahead and show the proof.

            Course we know you have no interest in Biden’s involvement in anything Ukraine – clean as a whistle.

        4. North…
          America helped the French win wars 1 and 2.
          Our MANCHURIAN Biden present has let so many Terrorist into our country that we will spend any
          treasure left and blood for the next nine years trying to find out what terrorists or where they will strike America next. Send troops or weapons to Israel and help Ukrainian defeat Russia. BS, Who do we think we’re kidding?
          We only have a 400,000 army and 2,000 Marines.. Oh wait. We can draft hundreds of thousands of college graduates and they will fight in the Trenches. HA , And I thought my two year Vietnam service was a screwed up Wet Dream. You ain’t seen nothing yet.

    2. It should be mentioned, what is there worth fighting for? for ether side?

      This is a war where both sides lose at every step.

      But…..it’s always the little people that have the least and lose the most.

      1. Billy Mike.
        True.
        Our Fearless Leaders have turned Ukrainian into a grave yard.
        46180
        327th combat Sq ‘Spooky Gunship’ or some called us ‘Puff the Magic Dragon’ Flares ,Gatlin gun’s, 2000 rndsr.

        “Problems, Just Call and Give Us a Minute.”

      3. From what I’ve gleaned were Putin taken out like this, the new leadership would be far FAR more hawkish. Many of the elite think Putin is too soft. Compare Putin’s actions to the shock ‘n awe Yanks in Iraq in 2003.

      4. “Not if someone puts a bullet in Putin’s head.”

        Much more likely that Zelensky will catch one.

      5. “…a bullet in Putin’s head.”
        The result of that would be some other Russian or group of Russians takin ove and determining whether to end their war with Ukraine or carry on.

    2. It’s only a good summary to those with lips firmly attached to Putins balls:

      “after a Western-aided overthrow of a democratically elected president and the installation of an anti-Russia government in Kiev.”

      LOL

      “allow the Ukrainian army to degrade itself and achieve nothing. ”

      Only if you aren’t paying attention. Here’s a hint: the loss ratio is still in Ukraines favor.

      “As for what it would take for Zelensky to surrender the international spotlight and agree to peace, we’re guessing a big deposit to a Swiss bank account would do just fine.”

      There isn’t a single credible source with information like that. Or Zelenskys supposed drug use. Except for one badly photoshopped video.

      It is ZeroHedge after all. Just another Kremlin mouthpiece.

      1. “Here’s a hint: the loss ratio is still in Ukraines favor.”

        Not if you factor in relative TFR and relative population size. Ukraine never had the demographics to win this war. It still doesn’t. They can’t win, all they can choose is how well they lose.

        As of 2020
        Ukrainian TFR: 1.22
        Russian TFR: 1.5

        Ukraine’s population: 44.13 million
        Russia’s population: 144.1 million

        Right now, Ukraine is down to 36 million, and dropping. Russia’s population is static

          1. A 4:1 loss ratio doesn’t matter if you can’t make up the losses. The first man to record this kind of victory was named Pyrrhus. Pyrrhus won on the battlefield of Asculum in Apulia (279 BC), but suffered such heavy losses during the battle that he is said to have exclaimed, “If we are victorious in one more battle with the Romans, we shall be utterly ruined.”

            So, even assuming Ukraine is inflicting a 4:1 loss ratio (and keep in mind, in war, everyone lies), Ukraine cannot afford that kind of victory. The average age of a soldier in the US military is 23. In Ukraine it’s 43.

            https://time.com/6329188/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-interview/

            Almost 500,000 Ukrainian and Russian troops have been killed or wounded in the war, US officials said in August.

            The number of Russian dead was close to 120,000 at the time, while 70,000 Ukrainian troops have died, per US estimates.

            That ain’t a 4:1 death ratio.

          2. I was speaking of equipment, this doesn’t come from claims from either side but rather open source intel that’s geoconfirmed. There are multiple sources for this, Oryx being one of them but they have shut down recently.

            As far as casualties and fatalities, it’s well established that Ukraine has a much higher rate of recoveries than Russia. They also have far more foreign mercenaries fighting for them.

            Ukraine is hitting more and deeper into Russian held territory all the time. They’re making Russias hold on Crimea untenable.

          3. But the casualty ratio isn’t 4:1, it is more like 2:1 or 1:1. There is a reason why the Ukraine doesn’t publicly disclose their casualties. Well, at the moment it is more like 300,000-500,000 reasons why they refuse to speak of it.

            The Russians aren’t losing the war, they’re winning through attrition. And now even the propaganda can’t hide that. Hence the mutinies and the ‘officially denied’ rumours of impending peace negotiations leaking out of Washington. Well like rumours that the US will cut it’s losses and force Kiev to seek terms.

          4. “So a 4:1 loss ratio doesn’t matter? Have you seen the videos of Avdiivka? It’s unreal.”

            Even if it’s true, a 4-1 loss ratio in *one battle* means nothing. Even if it’s true.

            Get serious.

          6. “The 4:1 ratio is across the whole war.”

            That’s probable although I suspect it is still an understatement. Russian health and recovery chain breaks down at every stage. It starts at the field where the field medicine is at WWII levels at best. Then it goes to hospital care that is extremely uneven and the proportion of orcs that make it back in one piece with all limbs still attached is apparently abysmal. Often the quality of the treatment depends on how much does your commander care that you recover. And that in turn depends on the unit you served in. Meat from Storm Z barely get any treatment for example. Then the recovery process is often absurd by western standard especially when it comes to treatment of psychological wounds like PTSD, hence the recently reported rush of suicides and murders by those who were deemed recovered and ready to sent back.

            Also the material orc start with is hopeless. AIDS is rampant, other easily preventable disease in civilized world like Tuberculosis are very common, malnutrition very common, alcohol and substance addiction are a norm.

            All these factors contribute to higher loses.

            Indeed the safest place for an orc in the war is in the Ukrainian POW camp. While Ukrainian POWs are tortured and starved, orc POWs typically gain weight, receive a degree of substance abuse treatment, medical care, and often for the first time ever dental care. One of the biggest threats an orc faces in a Ukrainain POW camp is that of contracting AIDS as homosexual rape among orcs POWs is as rampant as it was back when they were training.

      2. “after a Western-aided overthrow of a democratically elected president and the installation of an anti-Russia government in Kiev.”

        LOL”

        Like I said before: we put the facts *right in front of your face*, and you just turn your head. Grow up.

        “It is ZeroHedge after all. Just another Kremlin mouthpiece.”

        Like you, you mean?

        As fun as it is to see you lash out in an impotent rage over the coming reality-check on your ridiculous fantasies, you distract from real, honest and productive discussion…so back to the kiddie table with you.

        1. What facts? Yanukovych fled like a bitch near the end of his term because he had lost control of the security situation and his forces were killing unarmed civilians. The only reason he won is because he promised to join the EU then abruptly turned face. Elections were called. That’s democracy. Nobody questions the legitimacy of all the elections since. Except Kremlin propagandists.

          1. More to it. Poroshenko not Zelensky replaced Yanukovych. Zelensky replaced Poroshenko. Meaning the guy that CIA allegedly established to replace a pro russian traitor, has himself been replaced by the current president. So unless CIA is replacing its own puppets with its own puppets the whole story just might be bullshit to begin with.

  5. It’s true that French soldiers mutinied (but it wasn’t just because of war progress). It’s also true that the battlefield was chiefly a stalemate of costly failed offensives. It’s also true that the instigator and invader held conquered land whilst its own territory was intact. But they still lost.

    They lost because in those circumstances victory couldn’t be attained on the battlefield. The battlefield could only influence the real fronts, which were in the governments of the fighting powers. The Germans knew they couldn’t achieve a military victory and couldn’t domestically last out a sustained stalemate. So in the face of allied determination to carry on, they gave in.

    Analogies are always wrong but they’re not without educational utility.

    1. On the other hand, unlike France in 1917, the Ukrainians don’t have an allied army in the field with them to bail them out. Or the hope provided by the arrival of an American Army to restore their morale.

      If the Ukrainian Army mutinies, it will be more like the Germans in 1918 where the war is over then and there.

      1. Yes, Prairie Sky, analogies are imperfect and you can always find aspects of history to support a narrative, if that is the aim (my comment was merely a response to the analogy by the SDA writer). I suspect no such 1917 analogy was made on this site when the Wagner army mutinied and launched an attack more than half way to Moscow.

        My view is that the Ukrainians will fight for as long as they feel the Western powers have their back in terms of meaningful arms support. If that falters so will Ukraine.

    2. It would be fairer to say they lost on the battlefield. They had all their forces engaged on the Western Front when the collapse of Bulgaria left them defenseless against an Allied eastern army of half a million men.

  6. Odd, isn’t it, that the article claims troops are refusing to “advance against Putin”? Is Putin wearing a military uniform on the front? Is Putin engaged in battle? What kind of an odd phrasing … unless, of course, the entire Ukraine farce is a proxy war to remove “homophobe” Putin. Of course it is. At least Putin can define a woman … but our SCOTUS cannot. And it has FAILED spectacularly. Goodbye $150B taxpayer debt.

    1. Russia was stopped after a surprise attack in its own backyard in a war it has been preparing for years. With NATO scraps.

      The majority of US aid to Ukraine is NOT debt or cash. It’s old military equipment that was going to be scrapped anyways. The assigned value is REPLACEMENT value, not actual value.

      1. So … you’re calling a defeated Ukraine … victorious? I feel sorry for people like you who cannot process reality. Most of them live in tents on the sidewalk here in CA

        1. You don’t think holding Russia back is a success? It’s not a victory, but it’s better than anything Russia can claim.

          Do you not remember how many experts here said Ukraine would fall within a week?

        2. Kenji

          1. Allan S did not call Ukraine victorious.

          2. How is Ukraine defeated?

          I note that:
          The vaunted Russian army was supposed to overrun Ukraine in a matter of days or a week or too.

          The Russians tried to take Kharkiv and Kyiv, but failed.

          1. Propaganda … pure propaganda that Russia had any intention of taking over all of Ukraine … let alone in a matter of days. Now … Ukraine cannot even assemble a legitimate fighting force. Sorry … that’s checkmate.

            Let Zelensky go to the front and huddle in a ditch

          3. @joe – “The Russians tried to take Kharkiv and Kyiv, but failed.”

            “Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.” – Sep 02, 2022

            https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch-why-did-the-west-stop-a-peace-deal-in-ukraine/

            So the key action on Russia’s part that went over all the Russia bigots heads during these negotiations is…..

            “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange,……..”

            They did.

          4. No they didn’t … that was a diversion. You’re not very good at War. If that was a serious assault on Kiev … then Ukraine should be kicking Russia’s (Putin’s) ass all the way back to Moscow. Didn’t happen. Not happening. Russia now owns a really nice swath of Ukraine all the way to the Black Sea. Thank you very much … and Ukraine ain’t never getting it back.

            If Ukraine were smart … they’d behave like every other conquered nation in world history … learn to speak Russian and move on.

          5. – Russia now owns a really nice swath of Ukraine . . .

            Are you celebrating?

            And it’s only ownership if you can use it to your advantage. Russia can’t exploit its conquered territories; every inch is subject to Ukrainian attack. It was better off renting Crimean access; now that it “owns” Crimea it’s had to move half its Black Sea Fleet away to Russia. Just yesterday one of its brand new corvettes was sunk in the attack on the shipyard at Kerch. Russia will have to build its ships somewhere else.

          6. “Russia can’t exploit its conquered territories;’

            Sounds like they need a buffer zone then, not a good place to start for immediate peace negotiations.

          7. Paul

            Perhaps we are in agreement that supply of weapons and munitions is vitally important. Both sides are using up ammunition at an astounding rate. For example: Russia is begging North Korea for artillery shells.

            But if Russia is not using its most modern equipment (for example Armata) does this tell us anything about the state of weapons in Russia.

            And as for Russian use of T-62 tanks (a very old tank), I’m wondering what happened to the 10,000 T-72 tanks Russia supposedly had (approx 2000 in active service, and 8000 in reserve. Surely 8000 tanks could totally overwhelm Ukraine and end the war?

          8. @joe “does this tell us anything about the state of weapons in Russia.”

            Again I don’t know, but I don’t think it say’s anything to the uninitiated in warfare.

            I would think that other than technical problems, common sense dictates that you don’t throw your best and brightest first into any conflict you expect to last for duration. Especially if you suspect a trap, like NATO jumping in when you’ve over extended your lines. So it would make sense to keep it tight and plenty in reserve, as we’ve witnessed here. Every now and again Russia surges like a “shield wall” in certain areas, usually when Ukraine backs off bashing itself against fortified defences.

            In all likelihood they like NATO also do not want some of their more advanced systems falling into enemy hands to be reverse engineered. Probed for weakness or copied. At least until they really need them. Sounds like they don’t need them currently, old crap is aplenty for now.

            Again it’s all about how you approach your views of Russia. The bigots here see them as alcoholic creatures incapable of having toilets, calling them mongrols and Orcs. Sensible people see Russians like Ukrainians as a remarkable people overcoming incredible historical hardships and know very well how to conduct wars, invent things, and use them.

            It’s we in the west who have allowed our leadership to screw us over and make us pay for this regional conflict while only they profit from it. Both Russia and Ukraine will outlast us as a culture and free society in the long run, of that I’m certain.

          9. “Russia is begging North Korea for artillery shells.”

            Yes, I’ve heard the Bigots say the same, but I don’t hear them talking about Zelensky doing world tour’s begging for everything. As is Israel at the moment as well, taking shells from Ukraine as an example to meet it’s shortages.

            So again it’s how you look at it. As the West demonizes Russia we have pushed them into places they may not otherwise have wandered. Seems like an easy go for Russia to trade what they need for something NK needs to insure adequate supplies. Therein Russia can also create a proxy of it’s own along with China to put pressure on the west and draw attention and supplies away from Ukraine.

            Bad move on our part to be sure, as NK & China are natural enemies for Pacific interests.

        3. Kenji, the Uke apologists of NAFO will always obfuscate, distort and lie about Ukraines failure, corruption and Nazi problem.
          Ukraine has lost, badly.
          500,000 dead.
          6Million displaced citizens.
          Russia controls this situation, without question
          But the usual suspects here, continue to worship the CBC/CNN/Biden/NATO corrupt narrative of propaganda.
          This was never about the NATO lie of “Russia’s reestablishing of the Iron Curtain”. The same nonsense that the 2 prime trolls on SDA have endlessly propagated unsuccessfully.
          This was about getting Billions out to Ukraine, to feed the corruption machine nefore the gravy train ended.

        4. “Pay no attention to Kenji.

          He’s the dumbest person here. Consistently. ”

          Yeah, not even close. He’s one of the smartest…and if you can’t see that, you must be one of the dumbest.

          (but hey, I hear the Simpletons ™ might be accepting new recruits. They’ve been getting their asses handed to them recently here, and could probably use someone to share their pain…)

      2. ” It’s old military equipment that was going to be scrapped anyways. The assigned value is REPLACEMENT value, not actual value.”

        Weird when old Russian tanks and equipment are destroyed on the battlefield it’s because “that’s all they have” according to the SDA military experts. Guess because they use vodka for fuel and haven’t figured out how to rotate their material supply chain.

        “No champion chess players or rocket scientists for them, it’s a myth” – Hillary Clinton

          1. @joe

            Don’t know, quite possibly for the very same reason @Alan S is suggesting what the west is doing, and also waiting for the possibility of NATO coming in with boots on the ground perhaps.

            Can you swear otherwise?

          2. Why doesn’t Russia use the T-14 Armata?

            I don’t know either.
            There are numerous reports of technical problems and delays.

            Armata is supposedly equipped with defensive systems capable of countering western anti-tank missiles. Perhaps these systems don’t work as planned?

            Possibly because the tank as a whole doesn’t perform very well?

            Or perhaps the propaganda consequences of losing their most modern tank aren’t worth it to Russia.

            Tass reported it was briefly used in combat but was then withdrawn.

            Chief reason to use Armata? Crew survivability could be higher than that of T-90, T-80, T-72, as there are no crew in the turret.

            Other than Armata, the T-90M/MS are the most modern Russian tanks. A number of these have been deployed to Ukraine. Some have been destroyed. I don’t know if the versions deployed to Ukraine have had the Arena M anti-missile system installed.

          3. @joe

            Yup could all be true.

            I don’t focus on the technical minutia of this war like “what’s better the AK or the AR platform”, tanks or otherwise, it’s all moot.

            It’s the BIG picture that wins or loses, manufacturing & supply capabilities of troops & weapon systems, alliances & proxies, trade deals and diplomatic relationships.

            Afghani’s can win regardless of technical support, possibly the Ukrainian’s can as well, although they will suffer physically the most. In all likelihood it will be we in the west that pays the most in terms of economic & political downturn, for certain losing the global domination we once had.

            We keep going and it will eventually affect us in real world ways here at home as well.

          4. “Why doesn’t Russia use the T-14 Armata?”

            Because like every other russian wunderwaffe it is great except for the fact that it does not work and russia can’t afford to make it work or to build it.

            An old Polish joke:
            Q: What is that does not light up and does not fit inside the ass?
            A: Russian device for lighting up inside the ass.

          5. Is that some world renowned Polish invention?

            BTW what is Poland famous for inventing anyway?

            I get Polish sausage, but you know, that’s not exactly “special”. I heard Paper Clips once that’s getting somewhere, what you got that we don’t know about?

        2. “SDA military experts”

          That’s kind of an oxymoron I think. What’s that phrase that Kate uses? Something like “the arc of history is long, but it bends toward ….” I can’t remember now how the phrase is supposed to finish, but for the Ukraine military experts at SDA I think it bends toward somewhere not good. And for this war, the arc is not so long; it is rapidly bending to that not good place.

      3. Russia is stopped by their own lack of skills and remarkable lack of ability to develop their immense resources. Does anyone know if they can make jeans yet? The socialist mind set will fail eternally when forcing it’s way into the real world of production and being useful to humanity. The ruthless ability to steal and murder is not useful when you want things from those very same productive people.

        May they rot eternally in a very hot place with no toilet.

        1. “lack of ability to develop their immense resources”

          Maybe they just want to go green like Justin Trudeau? Although I forgot how big Canada’s space industry is, do you happen to remember?

          Just seems like we import allot of things here in Canada, like steel from China – weird because we have tons of resources as well.

          In all fairness we only kill depressed grandma’s and the economy.

          1. I agree. But we’re taking a crap on other victims, for now.

            A “space industry” should look how, exactly?

            Which of russia’s resources were developed from their space industry?

          2. I’m not sure, I have to think that their space industry developed other technical advancements as it developed. Just makes sense. Someone once said they have their own GPS “style” system for example.

            As far a resources I do know they produce allot of variety outside of Oil & Gas, like Uranium and rare earth minerals. Europe imports quite a bit. Agriculture is kind of well known globally, I assume fisheries and lumber as they do eat and make houses. Coal for sure, Europe imports coal from Russia, along with fertilizer, I guess we did as well before the sanctions.

            Yea, I’ll bet there’s more but I’m feeling lazy to bother looking it up today, doesn’t seem all that important really when you stop to think about it.

  7. They have 18 months before President Trump cuts them loose and Zelensky is driven from Kiev—assuming he isn’t overthrown before that so his generals can sue for peace and agree to begin the process of reincorporation into the Russian Federation on Moscow’s terms.

    Would YOU want to be the last to die for Zelensky?

    1. Go eat a bag, Troll.

      Ukraine is not going to be reincorporated into Russia. At worst, Trump would negotiate an end to fighting, with Ukraine losing the territory that Russia currently controls. More likely, Trump will push Russia to abandon Ukraine altogether by opening all domestic oil production, causing oil and gas prices to crater. This will destroy Russia’s economy and destabilize its government. He’ll do it without firing a shot.

      1. This will destroy Russia’s economy and destabilize its government.

        Exactly the words pouring out of the vile putrid leftist propaganda mouthpieces, CBC, BBC, CNN, for the last 18 months.

        I guess that makes you a leftist troll. Take your own advice. Eat two bags.

        1. Eat a bag, Doug.

          I’m not the leftist troll. The Left, with meat puppet Biden at the helm, reduced U.S. oil production. This drove oil and gas prices up. Russia’s economy is heavily dependent on oil and gas production, which has enabled them to fund their war.

        1. If crude is $80-85/barrel and Russia is making record profits, what will happen if we drive oil prices down to $30-40/barrel or less? Those profits will quickly turn to losses.

          You can’t do that with sanctions or boycotts, because there will always be a buyer willing to go against the grain. You do it by increasing supply, increasing production.

          1. Sure, fire up the equipment and start hiring more roughnecks, we’ve only killed off the oilfield in NA since 2014. Should have it back up and running @ 110% by next week.

  8. It must be the middle if the night in Beijing from where our usual pro-Nazi racist troll operates. Come nightfall in North America, just watch the spittle fly. And guaranteed, it will be so predictable.

  9. Troop morale tends to wane when you get drafted and sent to the front while your corrupt leaders – installed by another superpower – are shopping in Paris and buying up multiple mansions.

  10. The whole purpose for the Ukraine war is to fill the pockets of Democrats and Neocons and of course to protect the Biden crime family. Why isn’t Europe ponying up most of the dough? Truth is, the U.S. really has no interests in Ukraine as it is not a part of NATO.

    1. “The whole purpose for the Ukraine war is to fill the pockets of Democrats and Neocons and of course to protect the Biden crime family. Why isn’t Europe ponying up most of the dough? Truth is, the U.S. really has no interests in Ukraine as it is not a part of NATO.”

      Absolutely, Art. This whole thing was about money and profits, right from the time the US started it.

      Let Europe pay for it, if they like.

  11. Well on the positive side. The populations first language in the area is Russian, so at least they won’t have learn a new language when a truce fire is called..

  12. Hell Doug.
    I am starting to enjoy the idiots rants,under both pseudonyms, as reality tramples its fantasy.
    The sexual perversion of these “Ukraine Forever” idiots keeps on popping up..

    Maybe the suggestion they get off watching the snuff porn from the trenches is true ?

    Cause all three or two are sick puppies ,completely blind to the obvious.

    The vile accusations they fling so freely are all confessions.
    For these activities are foremost upon their tiny minds as they bravely pound their keyboard.
    Accusations of perversion than no sane mind would have front and foremost.
    Poor wee bigots,desiring to bless us all with their superior wisdom.

    The constant abuse of our hostesses hospitality is another “tell”.
    For they know no other audience.
    So here they spew their bigotry and then whine for moderation should anyone respond in kind.
    I agree,we shall see the spittle fly..more incoherent rants about “Orc orc orc” and accusations of sexual congress with Putin…
    Sad wee creatures.

    1. I couldn’t agree more.

      They were clearly raised by people whose drinking buddies outdid each other with war stories about how they made Jewish girls scream after consuming a fifth of vodka each of a Saturday night. They identify “Moskals” with Jews, with themselves, of course being the only true Slavic children of Mother Rus.

      The “Siberian Mongol” canard is a variant of the Khazar canard, the lie that the Israelites are extinct and today’s Jews are impostors descended from the Khazars, a tribe of Turks from central Asia that in reality is extinct itself.

      Guess what. The Ukraine’s Jews are safe in Israel. The Little Russian Nazis never paid anything close to a fair price for a list for Jew-murder that took away the breath even of their German allies. They’ve had this coming for eighty years.

      And there is nothing the “Ukraine, Allahu akbar” crowd can do about but rave drunkenly on SDA.

      Israel will live, and come out of the war with Hamas stronger than ever.

      The name of “Ukraine” will be wiped off the map of Europe, and the “Ukrainian” rebels thrown on the dung heap of history with the Amalekites, a tribe only remembered today for being savages who made war on Israel and paid for it with their own destruction.

      Amalek’s name was blotted out so thoroughly that no pagan record of the Amalekites survived, leading some scholars to claim that Amalek never existed at all outside Jewish folklore.

      So will the name of the “Ukrainians.” The ones who survive the war and refuse to adopt Russian culture and keep Russian law will be scattered among the nations. Their children will learn the local lingo and in a century the “Ukrainian” dialect will be extinct, with only a few historians remembering the “Ukrainians” at all.

        1. Anthropologists don’t discount the folk memory of Indian tribes completely, as there often turns out to be something to it. Sauce for the goose.

          Jews are regularly accused to inventing their history from whole cloth to rationalize their own supposed paranoia and delusions of grandeur, by outsiders whose ancestors had shamelessly done just that, often within living memory.

          If you’re looking for people who rewrite history every few years to suit the prejudices of their master class, you’ll find them in the history department of any Canadian university.

    2. “Cause all three or two are sick puppies ,completely blind to the obvious.”

      And even worse…they are *proud* of their ignorance. Truly pathetic creatures.

  14. I’m so done with this stupid war. The propaganda masquerading as news coverage, the gigantic money pit that it is, the money pit that it will be when the “nonprofits” move in to “rebuild”, the tens of thousands of deaths, the cross dresser Zelensky, the wife’s Paris shopping sprees, etc, etc, etc. Everybody should be grateful it hasn’t already escalated into WWIII. Not one more dime for this money laundering op. Send in Trump to work out a deal.

      1. @Allan S – “find out what Russia has done and has been doing.”

        Printing money and driving up our inflation, then giving it away to corrupt governments?

        Maybe Russia is opening our borders to millions of illegals most of whom can’t stand to look at us, much less contribute to anything but increased housing costs and crime.

        I got it, Russia is telling us to give up our rights to self defence, and confiscating our weapons, then they order our government to be “soft on crime” and reduce sentencing for violent offenders.

        Russia is forcing us to transgender our kids and to accept lap-dances from grown men in negligees, but if we disagree call us terrorists.

        Lock-downs? – try protesting Russia will put the SWAT teams and Horses on us.

        “Russia, Russia, Russia” – Hillary Clinton must have had it right.

      2. Russia is basically doing exactly what they said they would do: Never let their only warm water Naval base in Crimea fall into foreign hands, never let Ukraine join NATO, and protect ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

        1. I wonder if they’ll believe that they’re serious the next time?

          Nah, suppose not, we’re so accustomed to our politicians lying as a matter of course, we just assume everyone’s lying or bluffing.

  15. Maybe zelensky ought to try leading from the front. WW1 might have ended earlier if commanders refused to send their guys into the grinder.

  16. So many experts! What did we do to deserve them? I doubt very much anyone here knows what’s actually going on.

  17. The one thing I find -amazing- about the Russia/Ukraine war is how freaking fast all the news went from “Russia is losing!” to “Ukraine is losing!” Almost as if all of it is BS all of the time.

    Honestly, I don’t believe a single freaking thing from either side at this point. Asteroid, wherefore art thou?

    1. Indeed. I think I’ll wait for something a bit more tangible than a ‘source’ and ‘allegedly ‘ before I conclude that white flags and a retreat are in the offing.

      Who knows, maybe pootin is temporarily out of ricin and is just resorting to a bit of old-fashioned disinformation for the time being.

    2. “Honestly, I don’t believe a single freaking thing from either side at this point.”

      Huh, best answer today.

      So I’m wondering when people will start focusing on those who are seriously affecting our lives in a tangible and immediate way. The ones profiting from all of this, because it sure as hell ain’t us. Look around we’re literally paying for it all, and tax exempt people are somehow buying 400ft yachts.

  19. “even when those orders come directly from the president. “

    Imagine NOT wanting to off yourself for the guy that thought pretending to play the piano with his dick was black tie, high end theater?

  20. I just watched a go-pro video clip from a now dead American volunteer that indicates it’s much worse than just disobeying orders. The video starts with two Americans getting out of their trench to first ask 2 approaching running Ukranian soldiers coming across a grassy field if they are wounded, and then telling them to get back to their positions. The go-pro on US2 is focused on Uke2, but you can see from the shadows in camera view that US1 is waving with both hands to UKE1 to go back (he’s unarmed), Uke1 gets face to face with US1, while US2 is trying to get his rifle sling untangled, and I think take the safety off. But it’s too late, we hear a shot off camera, and immediately after that, US2 is shot by UKE2, and falls dropping his rifle. It appears US1 is not dead but clutching UKE1, they fall and then UKE2 stands over US1 and shoots him, apparently the 2nd time.

    My guess is that UKES 1 and 2 had no intention of going back to their positions, and planned to kill US1 & 2, if they got in the way.

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