36 Replies to “We Don’t Need No Flaming Sparky Bikes”
Saskatoon has just sprinkled the city with little rental scooter bombs. I wonder when one of those will go off. If it goes off while you’re renting it, are you liable for the damage?
I’d really like to see one of these go off when some smug wanker is trailering it home with their Tesla:
That trash is all over here, too. They’re abandoned all over town. I think them catching on fire is psychological subterfuge by governments to encourage people to walk everywhere.
Cool! Wait! It’s not supposed to do that?
Technically it is not supposed to, but when you buy batteries from questionable sources with no oversight because “muh electrification for the environment now now now NOW!” This tends to happen.
You mean cheap Amazon batteries made in communist China?
When batteries get into heavy current draw during discharge, they heat up. Regardless of what kind of battery it is.
That is why properly designed Li-ion batteries have a safety circuit that cuts power if the current draw goes above a certain level. If that circuit is either nonexistent or faulty, the battery may overheat and ignite. They had similar issues with the batteries of those so-called hoverboards doing the same thing a few years back.
Can’t wait for electric commercial airliners. Will the parachute be an upcharge on the basic fare?
roaddog
Solar powered dirigibles will be the only way you can travel by air.
Hopefully hydrogen gas will provided the lift
You think there will still be commercial airliners? Very optimistic. Look at France banning short haul domestic flights (but not private jets, of course not). The little people will not be permitted to fly. Or drive, soon enough.
As I have said many times on this site, the problem is invariably an overcharged battery. I have nearly 14,000 km on my e-bike and have never had any problems in this regard whatsoever. Nor do I know anyone who has had a problem. The problem is the owners who are trying to extend the range of their e-bikes by tampering with the BMS (battery management system) in order to get a higher maximum charge.
The conclusion, reached by many, that Li-ion batteries, in and of themselves, are a danger, use the same logic to condemn firearms. There are always horror stories about someone who has been shot. The blame is placed on the gun (which, it is assumed, went off by itself). But, as we all know, if you f*ck around with guns long enough there is bound to be an accidental discharge with potentially tragic consequences. The problem is stupid people. Stupid people do stupid things. Twas ever thus.
I’m sure you can figure out the rest by yourself.
Presumably this is why laptops, cell phones and cordless drills don’t explode?
Ironically I got professionals to install my wood stove as I didn’t want to burn my house down.
Their drill
Battery just about did it instead. After they tossed it outside it started burning, and a fire extinguisher has no effect whatsoever on it.
I love it when the all-knowing come on here and explain how shoddy products from foreign countries going on fire is somehow the owner’s fault. Nothing to do with the manufacturers, and of course nothing to do with the government’s vast, all-seeing inspection and certification regime.
Government inspection is supposed to prevent shoddy products like this from crossing national borders. That’s what we pay them for.
Government safety certification is supposed to stop shoddy products from being sold here. They are supposed to check and see if they are safe and if they do what they are advertised to do. That is what we pay them for. They certainly make sure CANADIAN made products get scrutinized and certified to an extreme extent, which is why very few things are still made here.
Somehow though, all these very dangerous firetrap products seem to make it here anyway.
But blackfox prefers to call people who bought these things stupid, because he prefers not to notice the abject failure of bureaucrats to earn their money.
I’m sure I can figure the rest out for myself.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. So, to be more specific, people who modify their batteries and/or battery charging systems are stupid. As to bad products: you imply that their are shoddy batteries and/or battery chargers out there. While there are occasional lemons out there (as with any product) I am not aware of any systemic problems.
Without presenting any evidence, you accuse government agencies overseeing product quality of negligence. I have seen no evidence that that is the problem. I have spent more time road testing e-bike batteries and chargers than anyone else I know of. Certainly more than anyone else on this site. I know what I am talking about when I state my opinion on this matter. You say that you can figure the rest out for yourself. I doubt that.
If you want to go toe to toe on this matter I am ready, willing and able.
“I am not aware of any systemic problems.”
You are not aware of cheap LiPos from China going on fire while charging? In phones, MP3 players, cheapie tablets etc? Not to mention cheapie scooters and ebikes? To the point where airlines banned certain manufacturer’s products from luggage due to the danger of fire?
You are not aware of the commentary on cheap LiPo packs in the model airplane community, that they go on fire?
Okay then.
Fantom
Did you git that tractor trailer to pick up it’s wheelz yet????
You ASSume things you know nothing about, I’v worked with cordless tools for about 20 years now, and NO real problems. As to E-bikes and scooters, people fvck around with the management systems, to go faster and extend range, and that creates problems.
I use air tools, Gym. Or an extension cord.
Teslas go on fire. Also electric busses, there is a beauty video of a whole garage of those things going up.
And don’t I remember a cargo ship full of new cars burning to the waterline and sinking recently?
Gee, I wonder how idiots got in there and fiddled with the battery management systems before they were even sold. Real eager, them hackers…
Newsflash, the cheapest ebikes, scooters and hover boards don’t have battery management. At all. That’s why they are so cheap. Also why so many of these things go on fire. Also why it is hilarious to watch the government and guys like you blame “hackers” for an import control problem.
But go ahead, tell me again about your cordless drill. Half the power, three times the price, and never charged when you need it.
“Government inspection is supposed to prevent shoddy products like this from crossing national borders. That’s what we pay them for.”
That’s what we’re charged for, so there’s that.
There’ve been a number of threads on SDA showcasing how CSA operates..
Sorry, there are no government agencies inspecting the manufacturing of such products. The CSA has been granted or taken authority to certify certain products. They look at a design, perhaps test it and then issue a certification that is referenced on a product label. As has been reported here there are instances where they simply issue certifications with questionable oversight. Sometimes shady companies put false certification information on their product. That has been the case of some products made in China.
It is a misconception that some government agency goes around inspecting the manufacturing of such products or that it conducts quality control of production. Certifications are also issued by Underwriters Laboratory and other certification groups.. Ontario Hydro used to issue certifications but that might be done by some other alphabet agency now.
The best bet is to buy products from reputable companies. But even than failures occur. When they do they can be disastrous. Lithium batteries contain a lot of energy and are inherently unstable. Regardless of the reason for a breach of containment, once the contents are pyrophoric and once exposed to oxygen or water vapour in air they react violently and release a lot of heat that can ignite flammable materials. They cannot be easily extinguished except by large amounts of water or inert solid extinguishants,
I can’t imagine why any made in China device would explode.
Their B40s had poor quality. They would even stick in the mud and not explode.
Urban Renewal in action.
Got to clear the site before you can install them cubicle dwellings.
And now,the new electric bicycle comes perfectly equip for the Northern Winter?
I’ve heard that some of the problems with self-detonating E-bikes is from using mismatched chargers which are generally stolen.
Do we need another Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire to change regulations concerning all these toxic and flammable lithium ion batteries?
Do we need 146 dead people to get these things all isolated in a fireproof vault? It looks like this bike was being charged in a STAIRWELL!! Inside the Fire Exits of the building. Christ on a crutch!! Do we simply ignore the hazards … because it’s “green” transportation? Better wake up before another 146 people are killed … or is that “green” too? Thinning the population with combustible batteries?
72 deceased, 70 injured. Faulty refrigerator went on fire and started it.
Many deaths due to the PLASTIC cladding and insulation on the -outside- of the building.
What’s been done about cladding on buildings and flammable refrigerants in appliances in the UK? Nothing. They’re green, you see.
Flammable ebikes? Same story. They’re green, you see.
And you just KNOW some of those authorities are sitting there thinking this is a non-problem, because nobody but the poor are going to get done in by wonky ebike fires in the stairwells of crappy apartment buildings. Better to lose some thousands of the hoi palloi than have gasoline powered scooters. They’re not green, you see.
Gawwwwd … I forgot about the UK’s fetish for retrofitting high rise housing with EIFS and Rainscreens. It’s soooooo Euro-building … yeayyy! We’re Kool. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainscreen
Oops … the foam insulation was a bit more flammable than advertised. And a burning building skin traps everyone inside … brilliant!! But think of all the Co2 that was saved by retrofitting the Council housing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_the_United_Kingdom
Well … human lives or “green” brownie points … the choice is easy … even if “Net Zero” results in fewer immigrants on the dole … meh. The goal was achieved! Some twit in East Anglia did the calculation, err estimation.
It actually was a propane cooled refrigerator and started the fire which spread and ignited the building insulation cladding. Nowhere in the Grenfell multi million inquiry report do they state that the propane was the cause. it was used as a replacement for evil freon refrigerants for the sake of GAIA. Interestingly enough freon was developed in the 1930’s to replace propane coolants that went KABOOM and ammonia which choked occupants when they leaked.
I googled for the refrigerant type used in that model and, so surprising, it is not listed. Reason I looked is how does a refrigerator go on fire in the first place? Ours don’t do that. When was the last time you heard of a -fridge- going on fire?
But I had heard that the Euros run propane as refrigerant just like they do in Mexico. Nothing like a car fire when the air conditioning system is charged with propane. Now imaging that in your kitchen and in your bedroom window, because window air conditioners also require refrigerant. Potential fuel-air bomb.
That’s exactly why Freon was developed to prevent fires. But today in order to save Mother Earth it has been replaced by coolants such as propane. It must be ok to torch buildings insulated with poorly chosen inherently flammable materials.
Buy the electric bike from a reputable dealer, not Elon Musk!
Buy from Chyna Bikes R Us.
Johnny Bozoley
China can and does build excellent quality stuff, they just ship shit, and importers demand shit, because it’s their economic model. Ship something that lasts 10 years, and you don’t need to build, or sell a replacement for 10 years. And that is a poor business model. Just thought I’d give you a cheap laff, as you are too stupid to think fer yerself!
Jimmy Gymkanna , I know the Chinks can produce good stuff it’s the other 90% not staring down the barrel of a gun that don’t and send their shite here courtesy of our Overlords guidance.
I am familiar with quality battery tools namely Ryobi who have done good by me.
As Fer yer cheap larf go chase yer other bed buddies, ones you seem to have some knuckle dragging fights with.
Stupid is as stupid does, that’s you boy.
Yes … the ChiComs CAN make quality products (the designs for which they STOLE from American and European makers). As an example … I have been looking for a compact integrated tube amp for my office something to make my Harbeth speakers sing. I love Prima Luna and Cronus Magnum tube Amps … but it seems the ChiComs make a reasonable facsimile … for about half the cost. The one I am looking at is make by Cayin
I buy ALL my audio equipment USED, and have had excellent luck doing so. I’d like to get this little unit and start tube-rolling … buy some NOS Mullards (pricey$$pricey) … or probably some NOS matched set of Sovteks … yep … sorry Colonista … but they’re RUSSIAN valves. Hahahah ha ha
Yes, the Ruskies do still make excellent tubes/valves.
Remember the old tube testers at the hardware stores, or slapping the top of the tv to re seat them?
Some older airplanes that used glow plugs in their turbine engines were at at loss for replacement tubes to fix them, when they burnt out. Switching to a capacitive discharge system was costly and the Russians started making tubes to replace them. This was a while ago, but there are still older planes with the glow plugs out there and
You can source the Russian tubes to fix them..
As far as Freon goes, burning R12 would create phosgene gas, so they switched over to R134. Most of the newer refrigerants, like 1234YF are hydrocarbon based, (the horror) like butane, propane.. It really cools well, but is flammable, obviously. Those recharge kits you see at arbor freight, etc. essentially butane/hydrocarbons..
As for the e-bikes, they cost a fortune and if you look at the base bike itself, it’s nothing more than a $100 huffy you could buy at Walmart with the cheapest components possible and very poor build quality. I’d rather upgrade a decent mountain bike from even the 90’s and up with good components and make
It electric. One could always take the electric parts off and still have a great bike! There are companies that make the add on systems..
My concern is about the sudden proliferation of high-density battery packs in house and garden tools, ranging from weed-eaters to lawn mowers, chain saws, and even roto-tillers and snowblowers. Some of these are over 90 watt packs. I figure after a couple of winters of freeze and thaw cycles with these products in garages all across North America that sudden, catastrophic garage fires will become commonplace.
Saskatoon has just sprinkled the city with little rental scooter bombs. I wonder when one of those will go off. If it goes off while you’re renting it, are you liable for the damage?
I’d really like to see one of these go off when some smug wanker is trailering it home with their Tesla:
https://www.homedepot.ca/product/ryobi-80v-hp-brushless-54in-cordless-zero-turn-riding-mower-with-3-80v-4-40v-batteries-charger/1001696779
That trash is all over here, too. They’re abandoned all over town. I think them catching on fire is psychological subterfuge by governments to encourage people to walk everywhere.
Cool! Wait! It’s not supposed to do that?
Technically it is not supposed to, but when you buy batteries from questionable sources with no oversight because “muh electrification for the environment now now now NOW!” This tends to happen.
You mean cheap Amazon batteries made in communist China?
When batteries get into heavy current draw during discharge, they heat up. Regardless of what kind of battery it is.
That is why properly designed Li-ion batteries have a safety circuit that cuts power if the current draw goes above a certain level. If that circuit is either nonexistent or faulty, the battery may overheat and ignite. They had similar issues with the batteries of those so-called hoverboards doing the same thing a few years back.
Can’t wait for electric commercial airliners. Will the parachute be an upcharge on the basic fare?
roaddog
Solar powered dirigibles will be the only way you can travel by air.
Hopefully hydrogen gas will provided the lift
You think there will still be commercial airliners? Very optimistic. Look at France banning short haul domestic flights (but not private jets, of course not). The little people will not be permitted to fly. Or drive, soon enough.
As I have said many times on this site, the problem is invariably an overcharged battery. I have nearly 14,000 km on my e-bike and have never had any problems in this regard whatsoever. Nor do I know anyone who has had a problem. The problem is the owners who are trying to extend the range of their e-bikes by tampering with the BMS (battery management system) in order to get a higher maximum charge.
The conclusion, reached by many, that Li-ion batteries, in and of themselves, are a danger, use the same logic to condemn firearms. There are always horror stories about someone who has been shot. The blame is placed on the gun (which, it is assumed, went off by itself). But, as we all know, if you f*ck around with guns long enough there is bound to be an accidental discharge with potentially tragic consequences. The problem is stupid people. Stupid people do stupid things. Twas ever thus.
I’m sure you can figure out the rest by yourself.
Presumably this is why laptops, cell phones and cordless drills don’t explode?
Ironically I got professionals to install my wood stove as I didn’t want to burn my house down.
Their drill
Battery just about did it instead. After they tossed it outside it started burning, and a fire extinguisher has no effect whatsoever on it.
I love it when the all-knowing come on here and explain how shoddy products from foreign countries going on fire is somehow the owner’s fault. Nothing to do with the manufacturers, and of course nothing to do with the government’s vast, all-seeing inspection and certification regime.
Government inspection is supposed to prevent shoddy products like this from crossing national borders. That’s what we pay them for.
Government safety certification is supposed to stop shoddy products from being sold here. They are supposed to check and see if they are safe and if they do what they are advertised to do. That is what we pay them for. They certainly make sure CANADIAN made products get scrutinized and certified to an extreme extent, which is why very few things are still made here.
Somehow though, all these very dangerous firetrap products seem to make it here anyway.
But blackfox prefers to call people who bought these things stupid, because he prefers not to notice the abject failure of bureaucrats to earn their money.
I’m sure I can figure the rest out for myself.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. So, to be more specific, people who modify their batteries and/or battery charging systems are stupid. As to bad products: you imply that their are shoddy batteries and/or battery chargers out there. While there are occasional lemons out there (as with any product) I am not aware of any systemic problems.
Without presenting any evidence, you accuse government agencies overseeing product quality of negligence. I have seen no evidence that that is the problem. I have spent more time road testing e-bike batteries and chargers than anyone else I know of. Certainly more than anyone else on this site. I know what I am talking about when I state my opinion on this matter. You say that you can figure the rest out for yourself. I doubt that.
If you want to go toe to toe on this matter I am ready, willing and able.
“I am not aware of any systemic problems.”
You are not aware of cheap LiPos from China going on fire while charging? In phones, MP3 players, cheapie tablets etc? Not to mention cheapie scooters and ebikes? To the point where airlines banned certain manufacturer’s products from luggage due to the danger of fire?
You are not aware of the commentary on cheap LiPo packs in the model airplane community, that they go on fire?
Okay then.
Fantom
Did you git that tractor trailer to pick up it’s wheelz yet????
You ASSume things you know nothing about, I’v worked with cordless tools for about 20 years now, and NO real problems. As to E-bikes and scooters, people fvck around with the management systems, to go faster and extend range, and that creates problems.
I use air tools, Gym. Or an extension cord.
Teslas go on fire. Also electric busses, there is a beauty video of a whole garage of those things going up.
And don’t I remember a cargo ship full of new cars burning to the waterline and sinking recently?
Gee, I wonder how idiots got in there and fiddled with the battery management systems before they were even sold. Real eager, them hackers…
Newsflash, the cheapest ebikes, scooters and hover boards don’t have battery management. At all. That’s why they are so cheap. Also why so many of these things go on fire. Also why it is hilarious to watch the government and guys like you blame “hackers” for an import control problem.
But go ahead, tell me again about your cordless drill. Half the power, three times the price, and never charged when you need it.
“Government inspection is supposed to prevent shoddy products like this from crossing national borders. That’s what we pay them for.”
That’s what we’re charged for, so there’s that.
There’ve been a number of threads on SDA showcasing how CSA operates..
Sorry, there are no government agencies inspecting the manufacturing of such products. The CSA has been granted or taken authority to certify certain products. They look at a design, perhaps test it and then issue a certification that is referenced on a product label. As has been reported here there are instances where they simply issue certifications with questionable oversight. Sometimes shady companies put false certification information on their product. That has been the case of some products made in China.
It is a misconception that some government agency goes around inspecting the manufacturing of such products or that it conducts quality control of production. Certifications are also issued by Underwriters Laboratory and other certification groups.. Ontario Hydro used to issue certifications but that might be done by some other alphabet agency now.
The best bet is to buy products from reputable companies. But even than failures occur. When they do they can be disastrous. Lithium batteries contain a lot of energy and are inherently unstable. Regardless of the reason for a breach of containment, once the contents are pyrophoric and once exposed to oxygen or water vapour in air they react violently and release a lot of heat that can ignite flammable materials. They cannot be easily extinguished except by large amounts of water or inert solid extinguishants,
I can’t imagine why any made in China device would explode.
Their B40s had poor quality. They would even stick in the mud and not explode.
Urban Renewal in action.
Got to clear the site before you can install them cubicle dwellings.
And now,the new electric bicycle comes perfectly equip for the Northern Winter?
I’ve heard that some of the problems with self-detonating E-bikes is from using mismatched chargers which are generally stolen.
Do we need another Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire to change regulations concerning all these toxic and flammable lithium ion batteries?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire
Do we need 146 dead people to get these things all isolated in a fireproof vault? It looks like this bike was being charged in a STAIRWELL!! Inside the Fire Exits of the building. Christ on a crutch!! Do we simply ignore the hazards … because it’s “green” transportation? Better wake up before another 146 people are killed … or is that “green” too? Thinning the population with combustible batteries?
We’ve already seen this in London.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grenfell_Tower_fire
72 deceased, 70 injured. Faulty refrigerator went on fire and started it.
Many deaths due to the PLASTIC cladding and insulation on the -outside- of the building.
What’s been done about cladding on buildings and flammable refrigerants in appliances in the UK? Nothing. They’re green, you see.
Flammable ebikes? Same story. They’re green, you see.
And you just KNOW some of those authorities are sitting there thinking this is a non-problem, because nobody but the poor are going to get done in by wonky ebike fires in the stairwells of crappy apartment buildings. Better to lose some thousands of the hoi palloi than have gasoline powered scooters. They’re not green, you see.
Gawwwwd … I forgot about the UK’s fetish for retrofitting high rise housing with EIFS and Rainscreens. It’s soooooo Euro-building … yeayyy! We’re Kool.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainscreen
Oops … the foam insulation was a bit more flammable than advertised. And a burning building skin traps everyone inside … brilliant!! But think of all the Co2 that was saved by retrofitting the Council housing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_housing_in_the_United_Kingdom
Well … human lives or “green” brownie points … the choice is easy … even if “Net Zero” results in fewer immigrants on the dole … meh. The goal was achieved! Some twit in East Anglia did the calculation, err estimation.
It actually was a propane cooled refrigerator and started the fire which spread and ignited the building insulation cladding. Nowhere in the Grenfell multi million inquiry report do they state that the propane was the cause. it was used as a replacement for evil freon refrigerants for the sake of GAIA. Interestingly enough freon was developed in the 1930’s to replace propane coolants that went KABOOM and ammonia which choked occupants when they leaked.
I googled for the refrigerant type used in that model and, so surprising, it is not listed. Reason I looked is how does a refrigerator go on fire in the first place? Ours don’t do that. When was the last time you heard of a -fridge- going on fire?
But I had heard that the Euros run propane as refrigerant just like they do in Mexico. Nothing like a car fire when the air conditioning system is charged with propane. Now imaging that in your kitchen and in your bedroom window, because window air conditioners also require refrigerant. Potential fuel-air bomb.
That’s exactly why Freon was developed to prevent fires. But today in order to save Mother Earth it has been replaced by coolants such as propane. It must be ok to torch buildings insulated with poorly chosen inherently flammable materials.
Buy the electric bike from a reputable dealer, not Elon Musk!
Buy from Chyna Bikes R Us.
Johnny Bozoley
China can and does build excellent quality stuff, they just ship shit, and importers demand shit, because it’s their economic model. Ship something that lasts 10 years, and you don’t need to build, or sell a replacement for 10 years. And that is a poor business model. Just thought I’d give you a cheap laff, as you are too stupid to think fer yerself!
Jimmy Gymkanna , I know the Chinks can produce good stuff it’s the other 90% not staring down the barrel of a gun that don’t and send their shite here courtesy of our Overlords guidance.
I am familiar with quality battery tools namely Ryobi who have done good by me.
As Fer yer cheap larf go chase yer other bed buddies, ones you seem to have some knuckle dragging fights with.
Stupid is as stupid does, that’s you boy.
Yes … the ChiComs CAN make quality products (the designs for which they STOLE from American and European makers). As an example … I have been looking for a compact integrated tube amp for my office something to make my Harbeth speakers sing. I love Prima Luna and Cronus Magnum tube Amps … but it seems the ChiComs make a reasonable facsimile … for about half the cost. The one I am looking at is make by Cayin
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/integrated-tube-amplifiers-and-the-cayin-cs-55a.1136747/
I buy ALL my audio equipment USED, and have had excellent luck doing so. I’d like to get this little unit and start tube-rolling … buy some NOS Mullards (pricey$$pricey) … or probably some NOS matched set of Sovteks … yep … sorry Colonista … but they’re RUSSIAN valves. Hahahah ha ha
Yes, the Ruskies do still make excellent tubes/valves.
Remember the old tube testers at the hardware stores, or slapping the top of the tv to re seat them?
Some older airplanes that used glow plugs in their turbine engines were at at loss for replacement tubes to fix them, when they burnt out. Switching to a capacitive discharge system was costly and the Russians started making tubes to replace them. This was a while ago, but there are still older planes with the glow plugs out there and
You can source the Russian tubes to fix them..
As far as Freon goes, burning R12 would create phosgene gas, so they switched over to R134. Most of the newer refrigerants, like 1234YF are hydrocarbon based, (the horror) like butane, propane.. It really cools well, but is flammable, obviously. Those recharge kits you see at arbor freight, etc. essentially butane/hydrocarbons..
As for the e-bikes, they cost a fortune and if you look at the base bike itself, it’s nothing more than a $100 huffy you could buy at Walmart with the cheapest components possible and very poor build quality. I’d rather upgrade a decent mountain bike from even the 90’s and up with good components and make
It electric. One could always take the electric parts off and still have a great bike! There are companies that make the add on systems..
My concern is about the sudden proliferation of high-density battery packs in house and garden tools, ranging from weed-eaters to lawn mowers, chain saws, and even roto-tillers and snowblowers. Some of these are over 90 watt packs. I figure after a couple of winters of freeze and thaw cycles with these products in garages all across North America that sudden, catastrophic garage fires will become commonplace.