60 Replies to “Is Genesis History?”

  1. Yes…it is the foundation of our belief.
    It is the most important Book of the Bible. Genesis points to Jesus, Jesus pointed to Genesis.

    As we celebrate the First arrival of Jesus, we look forward to His Second arrival as well!

    Thanks for posting this Kate!!

    1. And yet we still can’t define what “random” means in any objective sense, as we apply mathematical probability theory as built-in to the study of quantum mechanics.

      Oh and Mr Feynman has to invent rubbish mathematics that fails basic logic to make it work, but whatever.

      Signed: a practicing analytic model builder and tester, with multiple graduate degrees in multiple mathematical sciences.

  2. My theory based on all the facts that I have gathered to date…
    A massive object clipped our Sun shearing off some pieces. With the Sun in rotation, some of these were in rotation too picking up chunks of mass(rock) keeping in a molten state as it also picked up some massive chunks of ice that rotating with our orb as friction by our orbital propulsion. Friction shapes our orb as the trapped gases start forming from our Sun scooping our planet and shaping as more gases orbital past as we have different distance and velocities on our planet closest to Sun and slightly weaker due to distance by our planets diameter. These are easy calculations. Our orb has a multitude of velocities due to its shape. The Sun’s exhausted gases gives the friction to rotate and shape our orb.
    The diagrams are windshear velocities without our atmosphere.
    http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/guest/lalonde-joe/world-calculations.pdf
    http://jonova.s3.amazonaws.com/guest/lalonde-joe/world-calculations-2.pdf
    I velocities mapped our planet and the Sun too has a multitude of velocities.
    The Sun rotates 5 1/4 times to our one year of orbit around the Sun.

  3. Christians have different interpretations re. the time intervals referred to in Genesis. I’m not hung up on a 24 day vs a 1000 year day or any other. There is one golden rule however.

    I count myself among the catastrophists. There is a big hole in the conventional science wrt to the historic geological record. The science dwells on the glaciations yet conveniently ignores the evidence that supports the events of Genesis e.g. the incredibly large graveyards, sand deposits, monster boulders and resurrections of mountains which no known geological forces other than a global flood could have created.
    https://www.velikovsky.info/earth-in-upheaval/

    1. If you want to know about a lot of this, go to https://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/creation.html
      Most of that tells you the following:
      The Bible does NOT say that the earth was made in six 24 hour days.
      The Bible creation account matches what we know (or believe, when we have limited evidence) from science, about the early earth and solar system.
      It also matches the account of early life, first plants (cyanobacteria, mostly) which changed the atmosphere to be transparent so we could see the sun by day and moon by night, then fish (early sea creatures), then birds (dinosaurs), then mammals, then us.
      The flood was not global, only global with respect to humanity, which lived in the stated region, “east of Eden”, see here https://www.livescience.com/10340-lost-civilization-existed-beneath-persian-gulf.html . The flood was simple, the ice age ended (ice ages are 90% of past ages, at least recently), and the sea rose.

      1. The Bible does NOT say that the earth was made in six 24 hour days.

        Agreed. Scripture does not specifically say that.

        I used to be a creationist until I read a Scientific American article about evolutionary fossil evidence. (That was more than 40 years ago, back when that publication was still worth reading.) That’s when it became clear to me that God did create, but He did so in a grand and elaborate manner.

        1. BADR – “I used to be a creationist until I read a Scientific American article about evolutionary fossil evidence”.
          1. In 1985 a Baptist Minister gave me “The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener” by Martin Gardner. Gardner wrote the “Mathematical Games” columns for twenty-five years in Scientific American. It was the magazine’s most popular column. Gardner was not an atheist. He believed in God as a supreme being and he believed in an afterlife. He prayed to God on themes of thanks and forgiveness. He was skeptical of both Darwin’s origin of species and organized religion. This shaped my belief that God gave us mathematics to help us understand his universe and eventually God.
          2. On the radio I have heard several times of omniscient disc jockeys mocking the Catholic church for declaring the earth to be the center of the universe back in Galileo’s time. Not quite true, but more importantly, it was Georges LemaĂŽtre, a Catholic priest, who postulated the Big Bang Theory. A theory that proves the instantaneous creation of the universe. Funny, I don’t recall seeing that on the TV show of the same name.
          3. Einstein’s theory of Relativity proves many previous theories that postulated the universe is billions of years old. It’s not 6,000 years old. I don’t believe that God created a universe that was 15 billion years old when he started it. He said you don’t put new wine in old wine skins. He gave us science for a reason.
          4. Martin Gardner used the birth of a baby as an example of why he was skeptical of the theory of evolution. Most recent estimates put the number of cells in the human body at around 30 trillion. These cells all work in harmony to carry out all the basic functions necessary for humans to survive. I have seen large oil and gas, shipbuilding and aerospace projects take thousands of engineers and many years. These projects are simple compared to the human being, yet the design process for each new person takes less than a millisecond. An intelligent design that instantaneously decides where all 30 trillion cells are to go and to plan their location and function for the next 100 years. A miracle that happens every day.

          1. This shaped my belief that God gave us mathematics to help us understand his universe and eventually God.

            Mathematics is the language He used when He created the cosmos.

            It’s not 6,000 years old. I don’t believe that God created a universe that was 15 billion years old when he started it.

            Creating things in 6,000 years does make Him sound rather limited in His abilities. He does things in a grand and magnificent fashion, so why not a universe that’s billions of years old? Why not one that is full of grandeur, beauty, mystery, and complexity, showing that He is the master craftsman.

            A miracle that happens every day.

            And that is the end result of countless attempts to adapt to the environment, to find a way that works in order to survive and propagate.

          2. The universe is infinite and always was, not start or end.
            Every year you see stories of a new image of a galaxy that is further out than the last.
            What is it out to now, 13.4 billion? The universe is claimed to be 13.7 billion years old. How can a galaxy exist that is 13.4 billion years old when the universe is 13.7? That doesn’t make sense.
            That’s pretty quick galaxy building even thought they figure it’s on the small side.
            Wait till the James Webb telescope get’s to orbit, we’ll be at 30 billion.

      2. “The Bible does NOT say that the earth was made in six 24 hour days.”

        Yes it does say that the earth was made in six days a we understand a day to be.
        (no there weren’t any clocks to measure hours)
        Genesis
        1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.
        1:8 And the evening and the morning were the second day.
        1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
        etc.
        The Word goes to the trouble of describing a literal day as understood a day to be at the time.

    2. “I count myself among the catastrophists”
      In The Fall of Civilizations series an interesting theory is discussed about the reason the flood story seems to be present in so many narratives across so many cultures. When the ice from the last ice age began to melt, and it is thought to have happened fairly quickly, sea levels rose fast inundating many settlements across the globe.

  4. We’re here because God sneezed. All must repent before the coming of The Great White Handkerchief!

    (So many interesting ideas in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.)

  5. We are totally brainwashed with the idea that all the order and detail that we see in a vast outer space and a vast inner space just happened by accident that we disregard the the truth of creation even though it is plain to see. The Apostle Paul described it well in the first chapter of Romans as well as the results of unbelief. This site has been well informed of the issues of a depraved mindset that we see every day.

  6. My two cents and Merry Christmas to all:

    Being a Geography major with a minor in climatology and also being a Christian I don’t care if the universe is thousands or billions of years old. I have no problem with science indicating an age older than the bible states. Why? Two reasons: The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah or more correctly Tanach. That more or less is their story – Egypt, Moses, Daniel, Solomon, Many ancient peoples and so forth. It sets the stage for The New Testament and the arrival of Jesus. The second reason is that at this moment science indicates there was nothing and then there was a Big Bang. Well, so does Genesis. Science pretty much accepts the abiogenic creation of life. In other words there was no life and then there was life out of inorganic material. Well, so does Genesis.

    Did God create everything, or did God set everything in motion. I don’t care. He created us to discover what he did. Much of the universe is a mystery and will remain so. Why? The universe is expanding at an increasing rate. Even if you could go the speed of light you would only be able to discover the nearest galaxies.

    I will leave multiverses, string theory, wormholes, dark matter, dark energy to science and science fiction. Knock yourself out. It won’t change my belief in God at all. God can do whatever he wants but as Einstein said, “Gott wurfelt nicht” and “Raffiniert is Der Herr Gott aber Boshaft is Er nicht.” In English, God does not play dice and God is clever but not malicious. In other words God’s universe and creation is observable, based on laws and is discoverable and not random and undiscoverable. If Einstein said so that’s good enough for me.

  7. Well, I saw enough of the video above to know that they believe that the Bible says the flood was global, and so went looking for evidence that it was global (this is known in science as “cherry picking”). What would most people in history know about “global”? When ancient Hebrew talks about “earth”, it means earth or any stated part of it (in this place, the stated part of it is first, earth at sea level from the second verse of Genesis on, and “east of Eden” after that stated part, the part with people in it). It does not mean “the globe”, because most people in history would not even know what that means.

    Look here for a detailed explanation of the question of “global”, based on what the Bible actually says, not what some ignorant people who do not study either the original language the Bible was written in nor science think it says http://godandscience.org/apologetics/localflood.html

    The original language:
    When you read an English translation of the biblical account of the flood, you will undoubtedly notice many words and verses that seem to suggest that the waters covered all of planet earth. However, one should note that today we look at everything from a global perspective, whereas the Bible nearly always refers to local geography. You may not be able to determine this fact from our English translations, so we will look at the original Hebrew, which is the word of God. The Hebrew words which are translated as “whole earth” or “all the earth” are kol (Strong’s number H3605), which means “all,” and erets (Strong’s number H776), which means “earth,” “land,” “country,” or “ground.” We don’t need to look very far in Genesis (Genesis 2) before we find the Hebrew words kol erets.

    The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Havilah, where there is gold. (Genesis 2:11)
    And the name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole [kol] land [erets] of Cush. (Genesis 2:13)
    Obviously, the description of kol erets is modified by the name of the land, indicating a local area from the context. In fact, the term kol erets is nearly always used in the Old Testament to describe a local area of land, instead of our entire planet.

    Here is what Psalm 104 says :The verse that eliminates a global flood follows: “You set a boundary they [the waters] cannot cross; never again will they cover the earth.” (Psalm 104:9) Obviously, if the waters never again covered the earth, then the flood must have been local. Psalm 104 is just one of several creation passages that indicate that God prevented the seas from covering the entire earth. An integration of all flood and creation passages clearly indicates that the Genesis flood was local in geographic extent.

    Note, the waters did once cover the entire earth, but that was very early in the earths history. The oldest rocks we can date show that in 100% of instances, the crystal was formed in the presence of water (4.35 billion years ago or so). That time is mentioned in Genesis, and also in Psalm 104.

    Conclusion, the above video is worthless junk, it is neither the Bible nor science, it contradicts both. Don’t waste an hour watching it, go to bibleandscience.org and see what the Bible and science really say.

    1. “What would most people in history know about “global”?”

      The Word describes the waters rising above the highest point of the Earth.
      If you understand the physics implications of that, it means that the flood was global.

  8. Once upon a time there was nothing. Except for a single very dense point of singularity.
    Then it went BANG.
    And the result is what we see and what we are.
    Still expanding until some day it will stop expanding and start contracting.
    Until it again becomes a single very dense point of singularity.

    That’s my story, and I’m sticking with it.

    1. I agree foobert. I respect any and all who have faith and belief, or believe not and have no faith. I do not respect a “faith” that wants to force itself on other faiths or decapitate non believers.

      If you consider the vast size of space, infinite, at least from our tiny perspective. Then consider the mechanics of an explosion, your post makes a lot of sense. Perhaps, again from OUR tiny perspective, this is a slow motion explosion.
      a handful of common dirt can number more microbes than there are people of this earth. Billions of years for us would be but a brief moment if you were outside the grandeur of our infinity. There again, it makes more sense to me if God, or the Gods were actually advanced aliens, as opposed to an all powerful all knowing, master of creation, omnipotent being. If you consider the early times when such fables were first told, even modern man would be considered a god by them, and we are definitely not worthy of that description. I simply cannot accept as believable, the rational of faith, god, and religion.

  9. I agree with the comments on this thread. As a church-going Christian, over the years I have noticed a tension between the Bible literal-ists on one side (e.g. the earth was created in six days; the earth is 6,000 years old) and evangelists (who use apologetics to bring in new people; who are more interested in ministry work and caring for people within the church). Jesus emphasized the latter, and the former not at all.

    If some new person, interested in Christianity, walks into church and hears that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that all the scientists who say the earth is 12 billion years old are utterly wrong, that interested person will immediately walk back out of church thinking that the people in it are batshit crazy. Literal-ists don’t care about the evangelical mission.

    1. David, a way to square that circle is to note to those whose faith is that strong (literal 6000 years) should have no trouble believing that God is the ultimate antiquer, and made the world to appear old to give us more to struggle to understand. To those who believe this, it should be a mark of pride (for them) that they’ve figured it out, and they should be smug as they sit back and wait for others.

      If God really wanted us to fall for this “trick” then little things like radioactive decay would be child’s play to include in the whole of creation.

      I doubt He did this, I put more faith in the Occam’s razor result.

      1. Agree. God is big* and very old*, and would have no trouble handling 13-14 billion years. Modern science also discovers that the universe is bigger than previous thought, and God can handle that large size.

        * Infinitely big and old.

    2. “If some new person, interested in Christianity, walks into church and hears that the earth is 6,000 years old, and that all the scientists who say the earth is 12 billion years old are utterly wrong, that interested person will immediately walk back out of church”

      Those who will be saved have been anointed by God from the foundations of the world.
      Wrong doctrine will not put aside the sovereignty of God.
      Methuselah lived to be 969 years old. The earth cannot be simply 6xs Methuselah’s age.

  10. “Tour, who is also a professor of materials science at the private, Houston-based institution [Rice], has become over the last five years the leading critic of origins of life research, pointing out that there is not one precise scientific explanation or illustration of how RNA or a single protein was formed by chance, let alone a whole cell, within Earth’s primordial soup,” the site continues.

    In other words, contrary to claims in school textbooks, newspapers, and by Ph.D.’s, Tour says that the origin of life still has not been explained.

    https://thenewamerican.com/scientists-are-clueless-about-origins-of-life-says-top-chemist-and-nanotechnologist/

    1. shot, evolutionists and creationists have the exact same problem, and that is the “starting” point. I posted a link to Tour’s article a few days ago in another thread. He does a great job in knocking down the “magic” spark of life that many evolutionists preach. I thought his article was good, and I am an atheist who believes in evolution, but the start is still a mystery for me, and any honest evolutionist.

  11. If someone is incapable of thinking about timescales of Tree(3) years, they are certainly incapable of understanding Gods creation. Poincarre Recurrence time FTW.

  12. I’m sensing pushback from the religious scientific community. I can’t quite put my finger on the whys and hows but I suspect it has quite a bit to do with the internet.
    Fact is there’s a lot of smart people out there who are bucking conventional scientific shibboleths with a collective “wait a minute…how is that even possible?” And it’s why we’re now seeing the big three of atheism Krauss, Dawkins and Harris doing their lame roadshows to tell everyone how stupid religious people are as a retort.

    On the flip side – I think we’ve all heard the story of how life began in some ancient primordial soup which in turn was struck by lightning, kickstarting the evolutionary chain”. James Tour, a one time atheist Jew who converted to Christianity and who has more letters beside his name than the alphabet with respect to his field of study, organic chemistry has told anyone who will listen that that hypothesis is just mind numbingly absurd. The response from secular scientists of course is *crickets* not wanting to tangle with someone who actually knew what he was talking about. So it’s back to the drawing board.

    The multiverse theory is another beauty. A supposedly plausible explanation without proof of course, to explain how our present universe is as finely tuned as it is to support life. Something that was stuck in their craw for quite some time. “Infinite universes means infinite possibilities” which had some in their own ranks scolding their peers that if we’re going to counter religious claims of a divine creator perhaps it’s best we don’t make shit up.

    All very amusing.

    1. “The multiverse theory is another beauty. A supposedly plausible explanation without proof of course, to explain how our present universe is as finely tuned as it is to support life. ”
      That is not the reason that multiverse theories were put forward. The fact is, given the best models of physics we have, either Boltzmann brains outnumber brains like our own by an infinite factor over very large timescales, or we have a multiverse. Now, if you have a better model than quantum field theory and general relativity and the Standard Model, well, I’m all ears. The existence of a cosmological constant is, in fact, evidence in favor of a multiverse.
      Render unto Einstein what is Einstein’s, and render unto God what is God’s.

      1. If you think an infinite number of chimps punching away at keys on a typewriter over an infinite amount of time can hammer out the complete works of Shakespeare error free…knock yourself out.
        I’m just not one of them. And as one scientist once proclaimed- “does anyone seriously believe this?”. LOL. A resounding no.

        And ask any atheist astrophysicist to explain a finely tuned universe which in some instances is akin to winning the lottery several thousand times in a row the “multiverse” will be the first thing they throw at you to see if it sticks.
        Why? Because it’s all they have.
        https://www.toughquestionsanswered.org/2015/09/07/does-a-multiverse-explain-the-fine-tuning-of-our-universe-part-1/

        1. If you want to ignore statistics and probability, knock yourself out, you basically just show your ignorance of how very large numbers work. The fact is, an infinite amount of monkeys at typewriters for an infinite period of time will type out every possible finite combination of letters an infinite amount of times, including Shakespeare’s works, the Bible, and the 1973 Encyclopedia Britannica, and every other finite combination of letters. That being said, just because you take offense at some atheists using the multiverse argument against fine-tuning, that does not mean that that was why the idea was proposed. But hey, if you choose not to educate yourself in the current state of the art of theoretical physics because it offends your religious sensibilities, knock yourself out. If, however, you do choose to educate yourself, start with basic linear algebra, multivariable calculus and tensor calculus; if you don’t understand those basic concepts, there is no chance you can understand much about how Gods creation works, indeed you cannot understand how the sun shines, where the light from a candle comes from or how planets and moons orbit without mastering those ideas, and your understanding is really no better than some savage who thinks the moon gets slowly eaten by some god every month only to be reborn; the savage will still think he’s right even after reading a bunch of articles in The New Scientist, he’ll just think he’s educated as well.

          1. Tell me more FWO, what is the current state of the art in theoretical physics?
            Is there is a commonly-agreed-upon model of the multiverse? Is there any physical evidence of the veracity of this model or are there just some mathematical equations that a guy in an office thinks might explain the reality of the cosmos? As you know, these are common and worthless until supported with evidence, surely there is some solid evidence evidence of the theory right? Right?

            Are there any multiverse models that are even falsifiable? As someone as well educated yourself surely knows, if a scientific theory or model is non-falsifiable it’s not really science, it’s just metaphysics. Surely there is more than this, right?

            Go ahead, I’ll wait.

          2. Is it even remotely possible we’re on the same team but you just want to tell the world how much fng smarter you are than everyone else?
            Yeah, probably.

          3. The sun’s light or formation have precious little to do with tensor calculus – the most famous applications being macro-gravitation amd electromagnetism. To get a decent grasp on the inner workigns of the sun, you will cross the threshold into quantum mechanics. Though as of today, we still don’t have a way to reconcile the two fields, UNLESS you are a pure mathematician, and hence have no teouble tossing out symmetry, an entirely arbitrary construct, and one with nothing more the aesthetic assumption to back it up. In fact, the irrational symmetry obsession you still see in physics a lot today, is a holdover relic from Newtonian days, and the belief in the unchanging nature of God across the expanse of his universe. There is NO reason whatsoever to require physical ‘constants’ to be the same across the universe (in spacetime), unless you are obsessed with denying a possible ‘centre’ of the universe. Real (pure) scientists don’t require symmetry, and are often thoroughly liberated by its removal.

            But then you suggest that linear algebra is somehow the first step to enlightenment. It isn’t (I should know – I use it daily in my work). It is non-explanatory, Euclidean (unless you are trying to teach SR) and only locally useful. It is a computational framework. It explains nothing more. More useful in stats, and for solving trivial systems of ODEs than much else.

            Even spectral theory (cool as it is) doesn’t get you all that far, except in the study of fucntion spaces. But now you are just indulging a pure math hobby, rather than “doing science” (i.e., constantly challenging the status quo in search of new ways of seeing and knowing).

            As for your claim about probability and statistics being a prerequisite, I tell you what: you come to me with an objective definition of “random” and I’ll back you up all the way in probability and measure theory.

          4. KC: The fact that there are several competing multiverse theories doesn’t change the fact that they are on the forefront of theoretical physics. The equations that suggest them are the equations of the Standard Model and general relativity. The existence of a cosmological constant is evidence in favor of them Falsifiable now vs falsifiable with better measurement/observation technology are two different things.

            burton: I am indeed a theist, and a Christian. I’m not smarter, I just love physics, and have devoted a large portion of my life learning it, and I must admit to a certain level of snobbery when I see people who don’t understand it try to use it in arguments, particularly theist/atheist arguments. The multiverse theories, particularly eternal inflation with the string theory landscape are in fact theories that allow for the existence of a God that exists outside of space and time while at the same time permeating space and time as we know it in our little bubble.

            Bdsm: Ya can’t do quantum mechanics without linear algebra. If you think symmetry is just an arbitrary construct, then you know squat about physics. Symmetry under rotational transformations are the basis for conservation of angular momentum, symmetry under translational transformations in space are the basis for conservation of linear momentum, symmetry under translations in time are the basis for energy conservation, it is only when one of those symmetries is broke that the conservation fails.
            There are other, more subtle symmetry groups to explain conservation of electric charge, weak charge, color charge, etc. There is no evidence to suggest physical constants vary over space. Go back to school.

  13. Agree. God is big, and very old(!), and would have no trouble handling 13-14 billion years. Modern science also discoverd that the universe is bigger than previous thought, and God can handle thalassemia size.

  14. Let us see now.
    As anybody that read things written by me can tell, I know nothing.
    The stuff just comes from inside of my head.
    So after this warning here is the story.

    As the second verse of genesis is written:
    2. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

    As you may notice, there is no time limit, there are eons and eons of time without description other than there was darkness over the deep ….

    Would suggest that there is also the effect of the author that will write what he will write as much as he may know or imagine to know.

    The flood was a major event some 12 k years ago, the flood was over his world, he would have no idea how large the world, the Earth is, to him if there was a flood as far as he could see that was the world.

    However things may have been or are, the bible is an instruction manual on how to live life. It describes just about any and every situation one can get into and suggest how to handle it.
    In the New Testament, there is more instructions on how to live. The problem is human nature. It ain’t gonna happen.
    The belief here is that if one followed the New Testament, one could be happy*, since it teaches that you are not the center of the universe and if you can possibly live without ever transgressing the deadly sins, you could be saint.
    As I mentioned, it ain’t gonna happen.

    *happy is a wide concept and it is not the state of anything.
    There are moments of happiness, when you get married, when a child is born, when you win a lottery or have a drink of wine.
    Happy is not a steady state.

    So there you go, have at it.
    Of course one could go on and on and on.

    1. Here is the choice we are all faced with. Do we believe mankind or do we believe God (the bible). Mankind is evil and atheist. Faith has convinced me to choose God over mankind. Believing the earth is 6000 years old is not a problem. If this earth were older why do we still have volcanoes and why is the core still molten?
      The flood would have covered all the world when all the continents were joined together. They separated after the flood which also explains why certain species are only found in some places.

    2. Christianity doesn’t lead to happiness. It leads to peace. Much different, something lost in our modern “pursuit of happiness.”

      We modern humans have a vast amount of noisy distractions today to keep us from contemplating the fact that our technologically advanced society offers very little peace.

      Inner Peace is something the saints have in abundance, even when living lives filled with turmoil.

  15. My father shared this quote from Chesterton many years ago. It was Christmas day and the two of us sat by the duck pond having one of those chats that go along with a good cigar and an after dinner single malt.
    “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.”
    Merry Christmas to everyone on SDA.

  16. Thanks for posting. Agree or disagree, it’s so nice to see counter-cultural opinions thrown around and discussed intelligently and politely (well, mostly). One day we’ll look back and talk about the good old days when ideas like this could be talked about without someone being thrown into the Gulag.

  17. Interesting reading the point of views of quite a few intelligent people in here. Makes me realize how small I am with my accomplishments and letters behind my name.

    While I believe in God, and in His Son Jesus by the power of the Holy Ghost/Spirit – it behooves me I don’t have clear scientific answers to some of the arguments atheists present.

    Concurrently it bothers me I do not have any clear scientific answer about a heart faith for Someone I never physically met, and that He died for me in some far obscure rocky place some 2,000+ years ago.

    But this I know – He did; and He rose; and He is coming back.

    And while I see compelling arguments for either side, what I know is simply answered by “God” and His love for us.

  18. The rising seas coming out of the last Ice Age,some 300 feet,might have caused some interesting events and made an impact on human minds..
    And as an atheist I would note,stealing the Jews Oral history could produce some interesting views of the past.
    But if you object to GOD,or GODs the stories still may have truth at their core..
    Also Merry Christmas as we ,with our pattern seeking minds seem to need something to worship.
    So in the old fables,substitute “Everything” for God and the tale is still a thing of wonder.
    Not that it matters,for GOD is mans way of admitting we do not know everything,any more than we could know a God.
    So you could replace God with “Damned if I know” but the former is a whole lot less tedious..
    And given our staggering levels of ignorance and stupidity,if God did not exist,we would need to invent it.
    Cause then it is not our fault…As we justify the nasty things we like to do.

    Watched a great piece of speculation on the flooding of the Black Sea valley as the ocean found its way in.
    That would have been a pretty memorable thing to have lived through.

  19. L- Just reading the erudition here is a humbling experience, one nicely sparked by the video.

    One never knows how great the SDA Nation might be, until moments like this.

    I’m in awe of a multitudinous array of superlatives, that’s all I’m able to contribute.

  20. Those who try to use science to bash religion and those who use religion to bash science ultimately devolve into arguments with less actual meaning than the debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Comparing the two and claiming one has supremacy over the other is like comparing figure skating and archery, and claiming one has supremacy over the the other, and then advancing arguments as to why one or the other is superior, like “you can defend yourself with archery, so its better”, or “figure skating is more aesthetically pleasing to behold, so its better”, etc, ie it is what is known as a logical type error.

  21. Let me know when you can prove any of it one way or another. The belief in God and Christ requires faith not math.

  22. Follow the series put out by Professor Brian Cox. Brian Edward Cox CBE FRS is an English physicist and former musician who serves as professor of particle physics in the School of Physics and Astronomy at the University of Manchester. A brilliant series on the source of the universe and its evolution to what we see today.

    I believe there was a man called Jesus with a wonderful message that has stood the test of 2,000 years. The sad thing is when some of his supposed followers take that message and corrupt it for their own power.

    1. Jesus was either a liar, a madman, or he was telling the truth when he said he was God.

      The fact that you believe he was a “wonderful man” negates the first two.

      That leaves the third, He is the Christ, and

  23. Here is a couple of questions when we known that man has increased in size every generation for example in Newfoundland the first loan structure built have maybe 4 foot something doors built maybe a couple hundred years ago

    so my question is if we are really hundreds of thousands of years of existence that would mean that we were originally 2 feet tall you care.

    As well as the dust on the moon and mars don’t show a lot of years accumulation

    So I guess we can explain the dust issue as nothing of significance

    1. Or they would simply crouch down when entering the structure. This could be for religious and ritualistic purposes, or a security measure. It’s easy to lop off an intruders head when they have to stoop to enter.

  24. “Somewhere” I have an interesting little book bought about 30 years ago. In it, the Author, who I think was a physicist, simply asked the question “What if we calibrate a Genesis Day for the Time Dilation of Relativity?” He then proceeded to show that the events of Genesis line up rather nicely. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the title at the moment.

    So how do you explain Relativity and Time Dilation to someone from 4000 years ago, eh? Perhaps you say something like “Well, it was like a ‘day’ but then it was very different. A Day then would be like thousands of years now”.

    And the subtlety is lost.

    So if the “First Day” when the universe was spewing out of the White Hole that science says happened is “One Day”, then the time expansion since that point would have one of those “days” now taking millions of our present years.

    It could all come down to a simple misunderstanding of when a Day was calibrated to the universe…

    1. “It could all come down to a simple misunderstanding of when a Day was calibrated to the universe…”

      You’re simple. The Word goes to the trouble of explaining that the morning and the evening are a day. 7 TIMES
      The repetition is to overcome stupid Jackwagons such as yourself. It is to explain a DAY to be understood in no uncertain terms.

      1. A day lasts 9 hours on Jupiter.

        Time being relative, perhaps in the beginning day on earth was millions of years because of a closer proximity to a black hole? Or God simply decided to orchestrate the passing of time to fit millions of years into one day.

        I’m not that smart and pretty ignorant, but it seems to me that the existence of the universe is no more wonderous than the idea of a creator.

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