Former White House war czar and three-star general Douglas Lute is quoted as saying, “We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” and, “We didn’t have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking.” This was not the message conveyed by either the Bush or Obama administrations.
Even more alarming are revelations that false metrics were purposely cited to support the narrative that the war was proceeding effectively. Army Col. Bob Crowley relays, “Every data point was altered to present the best picture possible … surveys, for instance, were totally unreliable but reinforced that everything we were doing was right and we became a self-licking ice cream cone.” High-ranking members of two administrations and senior military commanders were aware of a clear lack of purpose in Afghanistan, yet lied to the American people to justify the continuing conflict.
Afghanistan is a cluster fuck. For one thing it’s not one country. It’s a collection of thugs and warlords and the worst of ethnic violence and corruption. Time to leave and let them work it out among themselves. We will need to go back in a couple of decades when they pull another Bin Laden but short of nuking the place entirely, I don’t see what can be done about it.
We should have bombed any and all terror camps we could find, then left the place, but with strong words.
Build them terror camps again we will be back, but it bombing will be much worse.
Yeah, threaten them with: Next time we’ll make the rubble bounce higher! Good plan.
Surely diversity makes them strong? Isn’t that what diversity does?
The purpose of Afghanistan was to continue the enrichment of arms manufacturers (Global Industrial Complex) and to allow for officers to further their careers and obtain promotions to higher rankings = Status.
Those young men and women who died or lost limbs (and minds) …. all for nothing. In war, soldiers are the useful idiots.
Sad to say, but that’s the fact Jack.
I spent 3 tours of duty in Afghanistan; 2004-05, 2007 then 2011. I was an intelligence analyst who had excellent insight in that country, culture, people, etc.
What use is it to “shoot, move and hold” if you have to go back to the FOB at night? You can’t rebuild without having Platoon houses co-located with ANAF IN the villages for mission success and end state. It’s that simple. Winning “hearts and minds ” is a sustained 24/7 effort – not a 40 hour per week task. Young adults (15-20) is the key age group to target IOT “westernize” them faster..
Agree. They should have treated Afghanistan the way Germany and Japan were treated post WW2 and then maybe it might have worked.
How many vills, how many platoons you got?
Same problem in Vietnam.
Same problem with British Howes brothers with occupation of New Jersey in Revolutionary War.
Anti-Americanism in the third world is too deep seated and the US Government is too clumsy for WHAM policies to work.
“They should have treated Afghanistan the way Germany and Japan were treated post WW2 and then maybe it might have worked.”
Didn’t work for the Alexander and everyone up to the Russians.
You want to try to change a bunch of landlocked mountain tribes?
Only the Mongols had the daily working answer… Obey or another mountain of human skulls.
And that was not a long term solution.
But it wasnt meant to be.
Variation on Stalin. No Afgans, no problem.
( anyone heard from Cartheginians lately?)
“Death solves all problems. One man one problem, no man, no problem.”
Often incorrectly attributed to Josef Stalin.
Does anyone have a brain? The Russians flushed billions in treasure and an unverifiable number of lives. America has flushed at least a trillion or two and an unverifiable number of lives. Now if only we were as courageous as the Afghans, we would not be screwing with a freaking flu virus and worried about the next damn government mandate telling us whether or not we can shit, or where. Who says hi-tech and the best militaries in the world can win a war????
Hi tech and best military can win but they require enlightened and courageous leadership with a willingness to kill any and all mother f**kers who stand in the way. The last one of those I think, was General Patton. Today’s generals are political, liberal assholes.
America has lost control of it’s own streets. God helps us when it finally falls and the ‘sacking’ goes mainstream.
Was always baffled by the invasion of Afghanistan,we all knew the history.
An ungovernable bunch of tribes who only unite to destroy anyone who attempts to unite them.
Hey their choice and I respect it.
But.
Why the hell were we invading those Hills when the terrorists were all Saudi’s?
Obama Bin Laden was a CIA operative..
So we invaded the Afghans?
And then it seemed as if we did not want to find Big Terrorist Chief Bin Laden,who was sheltering in his compound with our “Allies” the Pakistani’s..
We got conned again…Part of Why President Trump,is President Trump.
For RINO or Demon they all seemed to love pouring Soldiers lives down the drain,for unspecified gains.
Well except I see the Heroin Trade is booming again.
The should have went in and blew up and napalmed 10% of the population and asked them if the wanted to sign a treaty that they would not protect enemies of the US. If they don’t sign blow up another 10% and repeat. Do not occupy countries. Just bomb the shit out of them.
I like your view of this. It’s probably to most sensible approach, considering what we’re dealing with.
I haven’t been there, but I’ve seen other places. I found this to be a very interesting read.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/i-could-live-how-cia-made-afghanistan-safe-opium-trade
I am all for leaving the Assholistan… but can we leave it as a crater?
Agreed. Why bother leaving it as a crater? Leaving it as a crater will fail because the worst rats in the walls will always survive. Simple containment will do; no one gets in or out, no exceptions. It’s what we will have to do anyway.
“Simple containment will do; no one gets in or out, no exceptions.”
Easier said than done. The Soviets failed for a decade to seal the porous border with Pakistan. Nor did the US seal SVN’s borders with Cambodia and Laos.
The French though did have success with their Maurice Line in Algeria.
They should have air-dropped porn magazines by the pallet.
The Afghans would have all come out in the open, even Bin Laden’s cave Saudis, for flesh pictures of any sex.
Then you nuke them while they’re all jerking off.
Then nuke the Pakistanis and the Somalians for the Trifecta.
As a bonus it would have put the Russians and the Chicoms in their place.
The bombs, not the porn.
But goat pr0n isn’t widely available. We would have to contract Germans for that and they are freaking annoying to deal with all their goat consent forms and associated bureaucracy.
“High-ranking members of two administrations and senior military commanders were aware of a clear lack of purpose in Afghanistan, yet lied to the American people to justify the continuing conflict.”
Geez. Imagine that! And the same thing happened during Vietnam!
The Generals tell the President what he wants to hear, and he spins it to get re-elected.
NO WAR, NO PROMOTIONS.
Leave this god forsaken moonscape and let the tribes do what they do best when they’re not banding together to kick out invaders…killing each other.
It’s the 21st century and no one except Asian NG gas corporations should give a goddamn about this moonscape infested with tribal warlords still obsessed about 19th century grudges.
It’s all yours.
I shake my head at the blood and treasure that’s been spent on this meaningless piece of real estate.
These muslim dominated countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan hate us and our way of life. They will never, never support a democracy as it is forbidden by the koran to have a different rule than sharia. Just look at the area, a dry dusty hell hole of nothing worth any effort so it remains a backward country of unbelievable violence, misogyny and death.
The longer it goes on the more obvious it is this is about “face”. A dangerous Asian concept that doesn’t belong around rational Anglo Saxon Celts.
Sure the military industrial complex loves wars and budget deficits to fund them, that’s a push factor…. but I feel in my water it’s an inability to admit failure plus too many innocent Americans truly believe that the 3rd world wants to be like the US. “Give them elections, suppress the Islamofascists the and build bridges, it’s our global mission and soon they’ll love McDonald’s “.
Learning absolutely nothing from 50,000 US dead in Vietnam is the real crime.
Bill said:
“Learning absolutely nothing from 50,000 US dead in Vietnam is the real crime.“
This.
General Flynn told the truth, and was destroyed by Obama’s deep state for it. All the senior officers who knowingly falsified reports should face courts martial, expulsion, and loss of rank and pension. And any member of the Bush or Obama admins who may have directed military officers to do this should face wrongful death suits from the dead service members families, and prison terms.
And they don’t get to play with all those really neat, expensive toys. Give a boy a fire cracker, he will find a match.
Forcing any place in the Islamic wastelands to be a liberal democracy is not possible for any other nation unless they have the will to dedicate enormous resources for many decades (permanent garrison) and essentially drive the Islamic part out of the wasteland. No imperial power has attempted anything like that since the British Empire in India and when you look at Pakistan, even they failed. The day after the last American soldier leaves Afghanistan, it will be no different than before they arrived. It was an enormous waste of humanity and treasure to go there without any reasonable mission and end game.
Fascinating.
I am the only poster here who went to war in Afghanistan for a total of 20 months over 3 tours and have good insight for a solution.
All the others are opiniated arm chair Generals (talkers, not doers) who have all the answers to everything.
Fascinating.
Well…unless you’re a neo-con who lusts to stay there forever bleeding young lives and treasure for mysterious reasons there is no solution except get out, because we will eventually get out and when we do Afghanistan will revert to what it was pre-Western hubris. Pre the loss of 7,000 Western lives and destroying $6 trillion, not billion.
It’s not the ‘neocons’ who want endless wars, it’s the liberals, the democrats. Haven’t you noticed that Mr. Trump is working hard to get American OUT of these soul destroying wars?
You might need to get a better informed re neo-cons, a typical specimen is good old “Permanent War” Bolton.
“Haven’t you noticed that Mr. Trump is working hard to get American OUT of these soul destroying wars?”
Errr…yes, obviously, what’s your point?
14 months in Nam as a medic.
Was that war any different than Afgan, other than location.
Nope.
Thanks Ray,but I must of missed your solution.
From your time on the ground and with your insight,is there a solution?
And is Canada or even the USA capable of following through on any plan?
Have we enough conviction to actually carry out said solution?
Ray seems to be resuscitating the failed Vietnam era “fortified Vill + give them iPhones” pacification theory ….. while being carelessly unaware that Islam owns their souls and the tribe owns their bodies and nothing will change that. Hearts and Minds became the most sardonic, bitter joke in Vietnam.
The Vietnam style Phoenix program from the air however, does seem to put the fear of god into the terrorist elite, it’s no solution but it does make the terrorist movers and shakers nervous and quiet and kills a lot of them with deep reach…..much better therapy than capture interrogate imprison release.