Wuhan Flu: “This is a completely new disease”

Wuhan Flu 162 Comments

Updated and Bumped with this note from Andrew Gaiziunas.

Just popping in to say hello and add some context before anything gets out of hand.
 
Me and my dad (retired M.D.) were intrigued by the possibilities behind this particular piece of research coming across my desk yesterday morning: https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173/5
 
Being all stuck at home under quarantine, we wanted to learn more. My dad provided the medical knowledge, I provided the tech & sleuthing skills, and we came up with this core hypothesis. As we pulled together a series of anecdotal data, some pre-prints, and even some peer-reviewed papers, a clearer picture of the hypothesis formed. We found missing pieces precisely where we thought we would. And yes, we became convinced this is not only plausible but quite likely (or a similar mechanic) to be the case.
 
I threw it up on Medium just to save a copy and see if anyone would have feedback. We got plenty — much over both of our heads, some out-of-left-field fantastic ideas. For example, if this turns out to be the case, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy might save lives (we have far fewer hyperbaric chambers in the US than ICU beds), a mountain climber suggested portable hyperbaric bags which are pretty cheap (in comparison) and can fit through hospital doors could do the trick.
 
This was precisely the type of interaction we were looking for.
 
The article has since been taken down by Medium, but it seems it garnered sufficient interest in the 12 hours it was up as to be handed off to much more qualified and experienced hands. We’re hopeful some of this can be found to be useful; it may or may not, but NOT sharing it would have weighed heavier on our minds if we found out later this theory, or something similar to it, could have helped save lives and yet we did nothing about it.
 
Cheers and best of luck, everyone stay safe and thanks.
-AG


Thank you, Andrew. The original post continues below.

This article is currently percolating across social media and may begin to gain traction in the coming days: Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret. (Now deleted, copy here)

It makes for a compelling read, no question. And it may even be a valid hypothesis, and at least one of the responses lends it legitimacy, as perhaps does this. ⇽ Read it.

But it’s also written under a pseudonym, “libertymavenstock”.

With a few minutes of sleuthing, I found the identity of the author — Andrew Gaiziunas along with his Youtube channel on cryptocurrencies, and an interview. It had 7 views as of this morning. So buyer beware should it pop up in your travels. (Update: He is likely the son of a retired Illinois doctor of the same name.)

It would be useful if our readers in the medical field would chime in.

Fair warning: to anyone veering off topic or jamming up the threads with conspiracy jackshit – prepare to be disappeared.

But I also stumbled upon this during my trip down the rabbit hole, and this is probably as good a place to share it as anywhere. By Dr.Cameron Kyle-Sidell who is treating COVID-19 patients in New York City. Patients need OXYGEN NOT PRESSURE!!! The ventilators may be causing lung damage because of PRESSURE. Needs to be immediately investigated.

And more here.



“These patients as far as I can see, do not experience respiratory fatigue. It seems to be a pure hypoxemic failure. […] the constellation of symptoms seems to most mirror that of decompression pulmonary sickness or high altitude sickness.”

Italian paper that also describes this phenomenon: Covid-19 Does Not Lead to a “Typical” Acute Respiratory
Distress Syndrome (pdf)

Update: Our own DrD weighs in.

Also, from the comments:

This might be a reach but as a physician I’ve been aggressively treating patients here in the west with the hydroxychloroquine+high dose zinc (200mg per day)+azithromycin with good results but started getting even better when we added a true functional glutathione. We were awarded a patent on this product last year and are currently seeking several further patent continuations (along with international patents) as we were planning to create a biotech around it (meaning we already have the financing/investment and know it works like it should — first one to truly work or to be validated — the only one that works in the marketplace). And after reading these comments and this great article we believe we now know what it was doing and why — it helps prevent the cytokine cascade/storm in the lungs and the overwhelming oxidative stress as mentioned and when used along with hydroxychloroquine probably helps resolve the porphyrin problem more effectively. It is also extremely antiviral (macrophages use it to attack viruses) which is some of our first NDIs for which we are going after with the FDA. But these are all mostly just theories buttressed with the recent clinical knowledge gained by treating a lot of sick patients.

Hope this helps the thoughts and conversation.

Much appreciated.

162 Replies to “Wuhan Flu: “This is a completely new disease””

    1. [Note from Kate — I’m allowing this to stay as the original Medium post was deleted. Be aware that the author has low trust factor and may have put the piece together from other sources without having a clue what he was writing about. PLEASE DO NOT FORWARD IT AS A LEGITIMATE ARTICLE.]

      *** Kate: not sure if this is allowed, copyright etc?? ***

      (following is article referred to by 1st link)

      Covid-19 had us all fooled, but now we might have finally found its secret.
      libertymavenstock
      libertymavenstock
      Follow
      Apr 4 · 8 min read

      In the last 3–5 days, a mountain of anecdotal evidence has come out of NYC, Italy, Spain, etc. about COVID-19 and characteristics of patients who get seriously ill. It’s not only piling up but now leading to a general field-level consensus backed up by a few previously little-known studies that we’ve had it all wrong the whole time. Well, a few had some things eerily correct (cough Trump cough), especially with Hydroxychloroquine with Azithromicin, but we’ll get to that in a minute.
      There is no ‘pneumonia’ nor ARDS. At least not the ARDS with established treatment protocols and procedures we’re familiar with. Ventilators are not only the wrong solution, but high pressure intubation can actually wind up causing more damage than without, not to mention complications from tracheal scarring and ulcers given the duration of intubation often required… They may still have a use in the immediate future for patients too far to bring back with this newfound knowledge, but moving forward a new treatment protocol needs to be established so we stop treating patients for the wrong disease.
      The past 48 hours or so have seen a huge revelation: COVID-19 causes prolonged and progressive hypoxia (starving your body of oxygen) by binding to the heme groups in hemoglobin in your red blood cells. People are simply desaturating (losing o2 in their blood), and that’s what eventually leads to organ failures that kill them, not any form of ARDS or pneumonia. All the damage to the lungs you see in CT scans are from the release of oxidative iron from the hemes, this overwhelms the natural defenses against pulmonary oxidative stress and causes that nice, always-bilateral ground glass opacity in the lungs. Patients returning for re-hospitalization days or weeks after recovery suffering from apparent delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalopathy strengthen the notion COVID-19 patients are suffering from hypoxia despite no signs of respiratory ‘tire out’ or fatigue.
      Here’s the breakdown of the whole process, including some ELI5-level cliff notes. Much has been simplified just to keep it digestible and layman-friendly.
      Your red blood cells carry oxygen from your lungs to all your organs and the rest of your body. Red blood cells can do this thanks to hemoglobin, which is a protein consisting of four “hemes”. Hemes have a special kind of iron ion, which is normally quite toxic in its free form, locked away in its center with a porphyrin acting as it’s ‘container’. In this way, the iron ion can be ‘caged’ and carried around safely by the hemoglobin, but used to bind to oxygen when it gets to your lungs.
      When the red blood cell gets to the alveoli, or the little sacs in your lungs where all the gas exchange happens, that special little iron ion can flip between FE2+ and FE3+ states with electron exchange and bond to some oxygen, then it goes off on its little merry way to deliver o2 elsewhere.
      Here’s where COVID-19 comes in. Its glycoproteins bond to the heme, and in doing so that special and toxic oxidative iron ion is “disassociated” (released). It’s basically let out of the cage and now freely roaming around on its own. This is bad for two reasons:
      1) Without the iron ion, hemoglobin can no longer bind to oxygen. Once all the hemoglobin is impaired, the red blood cell is essentially turned into a Freightliner truck cab with no trailer and no ability to store its cargo.. it is useless and just running around with COVID-19 virus attached to its porphyrin. All these useless trucks running around not delivering oxygen is what starts to lead to desaturation, or watching the patient’s spo2 levels drop. It is INCORRECT to assume traditional ARDS and in doing so, you’re treating the WRONG DISEASE. Think of it a lot like carbon monoxide poisoning, in which CO is bound to the hemoglobin, making it unable to carry oxygen. In those cases, ventilators aren’t treating the root cause; the patient’s lungs aren’t ‘tiring out’, they’re pumping just fine. The red blood cells just can’t carry o2, end of story. Only in this case, unlike CO poisoning in which eventually the CO can break off, the affected hemoglobin is permanently stripped of its ability to carry o2 because it has lost its iron ion. The body compensates for this lack of o2 carrying capacity and deliveries by having your kidneys release hormones like erythropoietin, which tell your bone marrow factories to ramp up production on new red blood cells with freshly made and fully functioning hemoglobin. This is the reason you find elevated hemoglobin and decreased blood oxygen saturation as one of the 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
      2) That little iron ion, along with millions of its friends released from other hemes, are now floating through your blood freely. As I mentioned before, this type of iron ion is highly reactive and causes oxidative damage. It turns out that this happens to a limited extent naturally in our bodies and we have cleanup & defense mechanisms to keep the balance. The lungs, in particular, have 3 primary defenses to maintain “iron homeostasis”, 2 of which are in the alveoli, those little sacs in your lungs we talked about earlier. The first of the two are little macrophages that roam around and scavenge up any free radicals like this oxidative iron. The second is a lining on the walls (called the epithelial surface) which has a thin layer of fluid packed with high levels of antioxidant molecules.. things like abscorbic acid (AKA Vitamin C) among others. Well, this is usually good enough for naturally occurring rogue iron ions but with COVID-19 running rampant your body is now basically like a progressive state letting out all the prisoners out of the prisons… it’s just too much iron and it begins to overwhelm your lungs’ countermeasures, and thus begins the process of pulmonary oxidative stress. This leads to damage and inflammation, which leads to all that nasty stuff and damage you see in CT scans of COVID-19 patient lungs. Ever noticed how it’s always bilateral? (both lungs at the same time) Pneumonia rarely ever does that, but COVID-19 does… EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
      — — — — — — — — — — — — –
      Once your body is now running out of control, with all your oxygen trucks running around without any freight, and tons of this toxic form of iron floating around in your bloodstream, other defenses kick in. While your lungs are busy with all this oxidative stress they can’t handle, and your organs are being starved of o2 without their constant stream of deliveries from red blood cell’s hemoglobin, and your liver is attempting to do its best to remove the iron and store it in its ‘iron vault’. Only its getting overwhelmed too. It’s starved for oxygen and fighting a losing battle from all your hemoglobin letting its iron free, and starts crying out “help, I’m taking damage!” by releasing an enzyme called alanine aminotransferase (ALT). BOOM, there is your second of 3 primary indicators of whether the shit is about to hit the fan for a particular patient or not.
      Eventually, if the patient’s immune system doesn’t fight off the virus in time before their blood oxygen saturation drops too low, ventilator or no ventilator, organs start shutting down. No fuel, no work. The only way to even try to keep them going is max oxygen, even a hyperbaric chamber if one is available on 100% oxygen at multiple atmospheres of pressure, just to give what’s left of their functioning hemoglobin a chance to carry enough o2 to the organs and keep them alive. Yeah we don’t have nearly enough of those chambers, so some fresh red blood cells with normal hemoglobin in the form of a transfusion will have to do.
      The core point being, treating patients with the iron ions stripped from their hemoglobin (rendering it abnormally nonfunctional) with ventilator intubation is futile, unless you’re just hoping the patient’s immune system will work its magic in time. The root of the illness needs to be addressed.
      Best case scenario? Treatment regimen early, before symptoms progress too far. Hydroxychloroquine (more on that in a minute, I promise) with Azithromicin has shown fantastic, albeit critics keep mentioning ‘anecdotal’ to describe the mountain, promise and I’ll explain why it does so well next. But forget straight-up plasma with antibodies, that might work early but if the patient is too far gone they’ll need more. They’ll need all the blood: antibodies and red blood cells. No help in sending over a detachment of ammunition to a soldier already unconscious and bleeding out on the battlefield, you need to send that ammo along with some hemoglobin-stimulant-magic so that he can wake up and fire those shots at the enemy.
      The story with Hydroxychloroquine
      All that hilariously misguided and counterproductive criticism the media piled on chloroquine (purely for political reasons) as a viable treatment will now go down as the biggest Fake News blunder to rule them all. The media actively engaged their activism to fight ‘bad orange man’ at the cost of thousands of lives. Shame on them.
      How does chloroquine work? Same way as it does for malaria. You see, malaria is this little parasite that enters the red blood cells and starts eating hemoglobin as its food source. The reason chloroquine works for malaria is the same reason it works for COVID-19 — while not fully understood, it is suspected to bind to DNA and interfere with the ability to work magic on hemoglobin. The same mechanism that stops malaria from getting its hands on hemoglobin and gobbling it up seems to do the same to COVID-19 (essentially little snippets of DNA in an envelope) from binding to it. On top of that, Hydroxychloroquine (an advanced descendant of regular old chloroquine) lowers the pH which can interfere with the replication of the virus. Again, while the full details are not known, the entire premise of this potentially ‘game changing’ treatment is to prevent hemoglobin from being interfered with, whether due to malaria or COVID-19.
      No longer can the media and armchair pseudo-physicians sit in their little ivory towers, proclaiming “DUR so stoopid, malaria is bacteria, COVID-19 is virus, anti-bacteria drug no work on virus!”. They never got the memo that a drug doesn’t need to directly act on the pathogen to be effective. Sometimes it’s enough just to stop it from doing what it does to hemoglobin, regardless of the means it uses to do so.
      Anyway, enough of the rant. What’s the end result here? First, the ventilator emergency needs to be re-examined. If you’re putting a patient on a ventilator because they’re going into a coma and need mechanical breathing to stay alive, okay we get it. Give ’em time for their immune systems to pull through. But if they’re conscious, alert, compliant — keep them on O2. Max it if you have to. If you HAVE to inevitably ventilate, do it at low pressure but max O2. Don’t tear up their lungs with max PEEP, you’re doing more harm to the patient because you’re treating the wrong disease.
      Ideally, some form of treatment needs to happen to:
      Inhibit viral growth and replication. Here plays CHQ+ZPAK+ZINC or other retroviral therapies being studies. Less virus, less hemoglobin losing its iron, less severity and damage.
      Therapies used for anyone with abnormal hemoglobin or malfunctioning red blood cells. Blood transfusions. Whatever, I don’t know the full breadth and scope because I’m not a physician. But think along those lines, and treat the real disease. If you’re thinking about giving them plasma with antibodies, maybe if they’re already in bad shape think again and give them BLOOD with antibodies, or at least blood followed by plasma with antibodies.
      Now that we know more about how this virus works and affects our bodies, a whole range of options should open up.
      Don’t trust China. China is ASSHOE. (disclaimer: not talking about the people, just talking about the regime). They covered this up and have caused all kinds of death and carnage, both literal and economic. The ripples of this pandemic will be felt for decades.
      Fini.

      1. This is bullshit. Of course, oxygenation is the ultimate problem. It always is.

        But the oxygen has to get from the air into the bloodstream, and the problem is NOT heme blockage; it is a physical swelling of the (inflamed) lung tissue – the actual barrier between air and blood.

        CT scans are very obvious. The swelling shows up on the x-ray.

        People pretending to know shit when they don’t are part of the problem.

        1. Your qualifications to call this bullshit? On the face of it, your explanation makes a lot less sense that his.

        2. It’s bullshit because the media is telling you it is right? The medical experts paid by media conglomerates owned by big pharma are the real experts.

        3. The malaria-causing Plasmodium parasite directly enters the bloodstream through the bite of Anopheles mosquito and reproduces in the liver and red blood cells. SARS-CoV-2 enters through the respiratory system and reproduces in epithelial and other cells of the lung, causing tissue damage and ground-glass opacity. It looks like this “author” sort of understood the mechanism of action of HCQ (RAISING cellular pH to prevent the Plasmodium from neutralizing the toxic heme after digesting hemoglobin) and tried to back into it as an explanation for its antiviral effects. HCQ works as an antiviral by raising the cellular pH and inhibiting the virus from fusing to the cell membrane, cleaving into the endosome (cellular compartment), and replicating. HCQ also has anti-inflammatory properties.

          1. No the HCQ allows zinc to interfere with RNA replication of viral templates. So tag, yer not it.

          2. “HCQ works as an antiviral by raising the cellular pH and inhibiting the virus from fusing to the cell membrane, cleaving into the endosome (cellular compartment), and replicating”

            Do you have a reference for this? Thanks.

          3. Just today there are a number of media posts about a new ai tool for predicting future ARDS in COVID-19 patients. The three factors it uses is elevated ALT, high hemoglobin and myalgia. So how does that relate?

        4. Watch the video. Listen to the physician on the front line. The ability to have an open mind and learn from others saves lives!

        5. The original story is well written and rather eloquent that makes several valid points. Even if his conclusions are not actually true, they will be given far more weight compared to your room temperature IQ, at best, Neanderthal-like reply.

      2. man I gotta go back and read your post again. Very informative, but unfortunately if you were full of shit I would not be able to tell! Probably the scariest thing I have read in a while .

      3. Dr. Roger Seheult of MedCram points to 2 research papers that have bearing upon the currently preferred treatment. One paper demonstrates the efficacy of zinc on destroying RdRP (RNA dependent RNA Polymerase – Replicase) meaning the presence of zinc in the cytoplasm basically shuts down viral duplication. This is discussed here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eeh054-Hx1U

        The second part of the problem is passing zinc through the cell wall, which is where the hydroxychloroquine comes in – working as a zinc ionophore. He covers that and references additional studies here:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7F1cnWup9M

        Dr. Seheult is a pulmonologist in Southern California.

      4. The ionophore is the Chloroquine in Hydroxychloroquine. The ionophore allows zinc Ions to get into cells.
        Zinc disrupts viral activity and prevents the virus from replicating. The Chloroquine gets the zinc (& ostensibly the azithromyacin) rapidly into cells.
        We’ve known zinc ions are effective against corona virus since 2010:
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2973827/

      5. IMO the author did a poor layman interpretation of actual processes but I can see the overall theory as partially valid. Since reading the “article” and replies to the original thread, I went through rabbit holes of documents and studies. I concluded persons with Sickle Cell Anemia, low Hb, low iron, and/or previous lung disorders compounded with heredity factors are most likely effected by Covid-19. For currently healthy persons, taking Iron, Folate, and Vit C will help improve Iron and Hb levels.

        My opinions are mostly based on the following 2 studies and already established Vitamin information. Although just Vitamin supplements won’t cure Covid but they can’t hurt unless you consume toxic levels thus leading to other health problems.

        https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173

        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30609678

        I’m not a licensed doctor or nurse, but rather a retired chemist having worked in the health care industry of research and diagnostic areas.

        1. You mention “persons with Sickle Cell Anemia, low Hb, low iron, and/or previous lung disorders compounded with heredity factors are most likely effected by Covid-19.” Given that Sickle Cell Anemia is predominantly an African-American disease, is there any correlation between this and the high death rate among African-Americans in major urban centers.

          1. Interestingly today (April 7) during the Trump and Task Force update there was a mention of more African Americans being effected.

            But I would love to see some demographic data for any correlation.

          3. China wants to take over Africa, so they have developed a virus to kill negroes and get them out of the way. Prove me wrong.

  3. Huh. Tried to load up the first link, it’s already been censored: ERROR 410 This account is under investigation or was found in violation of the Medium Rules

    The two linked responses are still up, it’s referring to how the pneumonia develops and how the medicines that are being tested for efficacy may affect the virus binding abilities (if my quick read understood it correctly).

    1. That’s what I have understood from reports of various (un-supported by the political establishment) potential treatments. Why are Canadian bureaucrats refusing to allow promising treatments with inexpensive, proven safe, drugs. Criminal. Butn then, the bureaucraqts are parasites. We need a drug to get rid of them.

  4. Thanks Kate, for the very interesting news.

    The breakthroughs on new diseases always come from unexpected places, not officialdom, like the WHO, CDC, or any other sprawling, centralized bureaucracy. The same will be true of this one, despite that not fitting the media narrative.

  5. It’s ok that it’s been pulled, I’ll leave the copy/paste in the comments. As mentioned the author probably cobbled it together from other sources. He has no medical background.

    1. The person who told me about nasal irrigation and it’s benefits had no medical background. Haven’t needed an antihistamine but one day in the last 15 years. Even people without allergies were having trouble that day…

      There’s a few other things I do that keep me healthy that didn’t come from medical professionals.

      Medics are in the business of curing the sick. I’m in my own business of keeping me healthy.

    2. and it has at least one howler fundamental error. SARS-CoV-2 is an RNA virus.
      That, the apocalyptic, one-right-way tone, and the stream-of-consciousness style don’t sound like someone with background in medicine or virology, or any science. So, color me skeptical, but his hypothesis ought to be on the table to help clinicians think outside the box.

      1. I read up that Heme is inside RBCs … SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) doesn’t infect RBCs. If it did, the glycoproteins are membrane-bound and aren’t going to be touching large amounts of heme. Any thought on that? It goes to the Ace2 receptors as an entry point.

    3. No medical degree doesn’t mean he’s ill-informed. I have two lung diseases, plus immune issues, so have done a lot of reading that makes what he says seem sensible to me.

    4. I have no medical background.
      Last “vaccine” I had was in 1983.
      Last time I was in bed with a flu was 1983.
      Coincidence?
      There’s my 37 years of medical research.
      Medical expertise is not necessary to figure some things out.
      Big Pharma is all about money.

      1. Last time I had a flu was several years ago when I DIDN’T have a vaccine. Coincidence?
        Maybe. Your ONE data point means less than squat.

  6. This makes sense, regarding people with high blood pressure being most at risk of death.

    1. It would be interesting to know if they had a problem with low iron blood count before the infection. Their blood would be a target poor environment for the virus giving their system time to keep up and fight the effects?
      Thank you Kate for putting this article in the comments. Maybe a low trust factor but probably still an order of magnitude more trustworthy than typical media (aka professional liars).

      2. I have hemochromatosis, and keep my blood free iron, ferritin, very low and my iron saturation capacity very high. I have no issue with O2, even in Denver. No signs of Anemia. ( My donated blood would probably be great for a Covid person). From what you say, I might be less susceptible, than if I had high iron? So many men (especially) in 30 -55 range have high iron and no one test for it – until symptoms start from tissue damage. Wonder if that factor would pop out if blood studies of infected persons ( and death correspondence) were matrixed for the iron levels. Although resp patients may not be tested for Fe. ?
        Fascinating.

    2. Keep in mind that a proportion of the “a-symptomatic” are PREsymptomatic. This one takes some days to incubate.
      As a related rant, here is how maximum CFR should be calculated: deaths / (full recovery + deaths). The number of cases should not be considered for CFR… at all. Many of those are ongoing and we flat do not know how they will all end up. Also, I say “maximum” because the “full recovery” is a minimum.

    3. They got no problem. They healthy.

      We are getting hysterical about a very few deaths. Bad for those who die, but the majority, by a long shot, live. It’s not like the Black Death which took out 50% of the European population.

      1. Ya when patients are well cared for this lowers the mortality rate. But remember that 20% of those infected become critically ill. This is much worse than any flu.

  8. That makes a lot of sense out of a bunch of data points which have been confounding. Why always bilateral pneumonia? Why would a malaria drug show efficacy?

    Dr. Kyle-Sidell makes a lot of sense as well.

    I find it remarkable how quickly the Medium article was 404’d. It should, of course, carry the disclaimers you put on it Kate; but simply taking it down is bizarre. Good work Jason grabbing it and posting here.

    We need information. Some of it may not be absolutely correct and we need to be discerning. But an article like this one gives people a new and potentially useful way of thinking about Covid-19.

  9. The important takeaway is safer treatment protocols — getting oxygen into the blood without adding the lung damage of high pressure ventilators.

    1. Kate, why not some type of dialysis system drawing blood, enriching with oxygen and pumping back in instead of ventilators? It seem the ventilator system is more of a problem as well as the patient being drugged before hand to allow it to be implemented.

      Bill

      BTW absolutely a non-medical observation.

      1. There is definitely something to be said for NOT being intubated. Any form of treatment that has shown efficacy without the utilization of that measure has my full support… it may not BE possible, but definitely preferable……he’ll, I’D be happy with my Cpap pushing pure 02..instead of air.?

        1. Be very careful with that one, too. Straight O2 can kill you also. No, I’m not a medical professional. But industrial first aid made sure we all knew that, so we wouldn’t be tempted to jury-rig with welder’s gear in emergencies when transport wasn’t available (which is part of why the threads are different, IIRC).

          1. Drat, ran out of time editing. Dr.D notes below at 5:15 there are problems at 100% O2 but doesn’t delve in. He notes that hospital supplies can go up to 100%. He knows far better than I.

            But try not to be in a situation where you’re making your own gear or you might be remembered the same way that those who took fishtank cleaner as medicine.

          2. 100% O2 is given daily in ORs all over the world. It’s not going to kill you. Now lighting it on fire with say- welding tools or a cigarette-that’ll kill you. I am a MD

      2. Yes, blood dialysis (oxygenation) treatment is effective, according to the following anecdotal report:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw4CcQg_1z4

        • 32:15 Patients in China treated with expensive blood-oxygenating machines would recover, until they were taken off the machines when their families could no longer pay the expensive hourly fees for use of the machines. Patients would then rapidly relapse and die within minutes to an hour. The author of this videoclip learnt of this from families venting their anger and grief on darkweb sites.

  10. Okay, interesting hypothesis, and I got the 404 from the original link so I’m going by jason’s download. But I’ll deal with the ventilator pressure issue first.
    We’ve long known that excess ventilator pressure can be a problem. We call it “barotrauma”. The key in managing a ventilated patient lies in remembering that you’re ventilating what’s left of the good lung because the diseased/damaged part of the lung is relatively “protected” from the pressure effects of the ventilator i.e. the air sacs (alveoli) just don’t open up due to the fluid and debris accumulation blocking the small airways. That also means they don’t participate in O2/CO2 exchange. That being said, you still have to get oxygen to the blood stream so you have to get the optimal amount of O2 to the blood stream through the remaining good lung tissue and you have to avoid “volutrauma” i.e. damage to the remaining alveoli from the opening snap caused by mechanical ventilation thus the use of PEEP (Positive End Expiratory Pressure) so as to prevent the good alveoli from completely closing at exhalation or from the small airways collapsing due to oedema so that the alveoli distal to that point don’t get cut off from the external O2 source. It’s a constant trade off and a fine line to walk in very sick patients thus anesthesiologists constantly monitoring and tweaking the ventilator settings in the OR.
    The analogy to high altitude HAPE (high altitude pulmonary oedema) is something that has been examined repeatedly in critical care studies because it looks the same on x-ray but has never translated into effective treatments because the mechanisms of disease are different. So we’ve known about both phenomena for a long time (at least thirty years) but treatment for one hasn’t translated into treatment for the other. I’ll stop this portion of the comment here so someone else can chime in and then resume below.

    1. Bureaucrats not wanting unapproved information (right of wrong) to infect the public. Like some virus, it may lead to the termination of governments. only the bureaucrats can be the source of information, otherwise they are unemployed.

      Let’s hope so.

  11. Now let’s move onto the haemoglobin/iron/hydroxychloroquine issue.
    It’s an intriguing hypothesis and would account for reports that a patient’s blood type may affect their vulnerability to the severe forms of the disease. It would also account for the fact that some patients present with symptoms of relatively mild shortness of breath (SOB — I’m not making this up; it’s a standard medical acronym) while being profoundly hypoxic (Oxygen saturation 56% (Normal = > 94%). Oddly enough, low oxygen saturation doesn’t make you short of breath. It’s the build up of CO2 that drives you to breathe even under normal circumstances. So you could be profoundly hypoxic but not short of breath as long as you could breathe out CO2. The stabilization of the haemoglobin molecule by HC (hydroxychloroquine) would be a plausible mechanism for efficacy in this situation i.e. as long as the lung damage caused by the virus/immune system cytokine storm I discussed in a previous post hadn’t taken off then the stabilization of haemoglobin and the red cell membrane would prevent the toxic effects of the free iron on the lungs (The lungs have a filtering effect because of the necessarily small capillaries they’re composed of as a consequence of having to participate in gas exchange with the outside air.) and preserve the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cells.
    Thus, HC could possibly have a doubly beneficial effect i.e. the ability to prevent the over-response of the immune system in damaging the lung and stabilize the haemoglobin molecule to prevent further lung damage by the mechanism described while preserving the oxygen carrying capacity of the red blood cell. It would be wonderful if this could be borne out!

    1. Jeebers… if the stabilization of the hemoglobin by hydroxychloroquine is what happens in effective treatment, would the chemical that has been around for a bazillion years (well, not literally), and used to treat methemoglobinemia be of use? I mean just plain old methylene blue???? Would it work better than hydroxychlorquine?

      If the only side effect would be turning someone temporarily blue, would that be acceptable?

      1. Too late to edit… Methylene Blue does have side effects, some serious at high dosage. Still, would it be useful?

    2. Dr D. As a SCUBA diver and user of one of thse sleep apnea machines, I can understand the barotrauma thing. Ideally you want to get as much oxygen into to the system without physically damaging the lung itself.

      1. Agreed. And as it turns out the Italians found they were able to help some people with a 3D printed conversion/adaptation of the full face snorkelling masks to provide positive pressure ventilation without intubation.

        1. DrD- thank you for your helpful insights. The ER doc on the video who said that it is the 02 stats that need help not pressure on the lungs- does he have the benefit of seeing any research papers like the Chinese one this guy and his dad dissected on here? For that matter, is that kind of research even reviewed by the Covid medical policy makers and how can we encourage that?

      1. There are also a lot of natural compounds that inhibit cytokine storms

        Curcumin ( can get from ingesting turmeric with black pepper to increase gut absorption via terpene piperine)

        http://iv.iiarjournals.org/content/29/1/1.full

        Cannabidiol (CBD) is another, that a biphasic regulator of immune response and likely will prevent the “cytokine storm”.

        A good discussion of that aspect is way down in this article:

        https://medium.com/randy-s-club/covid-19-and-cannabis-b45f58c6554c

    4. I did a High Altitude Indoctrination course at DCIM in Toronto back in the 80s, done to experience hypoxia symptoms and so was just a chamber ride to 25000 ft, disconnect oxy, observe symptoms while drawing shapes, then reconnect when it was felt to be necessary. I was shocked to discover that you can’t tell you’re in “thin” air at all just sitting there. You feel nothing until your symptoms come on. I was fortunate to develop an obvious symptom prior to euphoria, tunnel vision. I reconnected when the euphoria stage started because it came on really fast, which startled me. All symptoms vanished instantly with the first or second breath.

    5. DrD
      Would you also like to comment on the observation that the death rate for men is higher than for women and that the Alanine transaminase levels are higher in men?
      Patient type Reference ranges
      Female ≤ 34 IU/L
      Male ≤ 45 IU/L

  12. So the take-away here is: an O2 concentrator is what we should be employing in conjunction with the ventilator. Or, simply the O2 concentrator alone as long as the patient is able to draw air into the lungs.

    1. Well, no, sod the ventilator, just a hyperbaric chamber. I don’t think ventilator can go above PPO2 of 1.0. I may be wrong but there is alos physical damage that is possible.

  13. MikeT: well ventilators can be adjusted to deliver anything between 21% O2 up to 100% O2 with the turn of a dial since they’re hooked up to the hospital’s wall oxygen supply. Constantly delivering 100% O2 comes with its own set of problems which I won’t get into.

  14. Quote: By Dr.Cameron Kyle-Sidell who is treating COVID-19 patients in New York City. Patients need OXYGEN NOT PRESSURE!!! The ventilators may be causing lung damage because of PRESSURE. Needs to be immediately investigated.

    Immediately investigated? For Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome the dangers of increasing ventilator pressure is well known. There’s no need for an investigation. Those who don’t know simply need to have that forcefully explained to them, along with the advantage of a high PEEP and prone positioning. This explains video explain why.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okg7uq_HrhQ

    1. Thanks for the video. So it seems like low TV, paralysis, and prone position can take mortality rates for ARDS patients on ventilators to well below the initial 40%. With these studies in mind, why are 80% of Covid patients on ventilators dying?

      1. Why?
        I would guess that as always we have people who are near death, very weak, sick with multiple near terminal conditions. They are easy kills. Easy pickings. CoV might not even be that…um…strong in them, as much as they are so old, or sick, weak or all three. There isn’t any fight in them. Like a old rotted boat, with no working bilge pump and a bum engine out in a medium gale. They sink first and fast.

    2. You can blame me for choosing that quote at an early stage in the post development (I update a lot).

      What he explains in the attached videos, along with the twitter feed is more comprehensive.

  15. On subject regarding Coronavirus:
    1. What is with New York City? Its conronavirus death rate (per 100000 population) is one of the highest in the country.
    Latest update on death rate: New Orleans (Orleans County LA) 41.3, Albany GA (Dougherty County) 32.9, New York City 26.7, Newark (Essex County NJ) 21.7.
    It should be noted that the death rate per 1000 known infections in those cities are not appreciably higher than the national average, the per capita death rate is mostly due to higher cases of infections. The month long celebration culminating with Mardi Gras can be blamed for the elevated New Orleans rate. Albany GA is a small town of 77000. A cluster infection of one huge social gathering (most likely a large funeral) may account for the numbers. New York City and neighboring Newark (practically its suburb) have had no extraordinary events, except for the NYC mayor back in February defied conventional wisdom and urged its citizens to just go out and enjoy themselves. He might have created an atmosphere of disregard in the city.
    The supposition that NYC suffers due to the large concentration of Chinese Americans in Queens is total hogwash. The cities with the largest proportional Chinese concentration all in California, San Francisco, Irvine, Oakland, San Jose suffer last than 1 per 100,000 coronavirus fatalities, not to mention the Los Angeles county cities in the San Gabriel Valley, Arcadia, Monterey Park, Temple City, San Marino, and San Gabriel all have over 40% ethnic Chinese. Those five cities have a combined 45 cases (note cases not fatalities) , out of a population of over 200,000. Those are some of the lowest numbers for a crowded urban area.
    2. Whatever happened to the hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, and zinc cocktail? I have seen no mention of it whatsoever anywhere, even on such sites as Breitbart. Was there ever a large scale trial of them, and what were the results? You would think some people, if given a chance, would jump at the possibility of a cure. I would. The whole thing just seems to have dropped out of sight. Does anyone here know?

    1. Dr. Stephen Smith on Laura Ingrahm discussing his Hydrox..& Azythromicin protocol. No patient of his who he gave this protocol needed a ventilator. He also points out that Diabetics/pre-diabetics with BMI of 30 + extremely likely to get severely ill.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddqs4D46OME

    2. I hate to say it, but those cities you have referenced having such a high death rate could be because of their African American population. I am just stating facts that African Americans suffer a higher proportion of diabetes and obesity. Plus, if this little rotten virus attacks the red blood cells, many African Americans suffer from Sickle Cell Anemia. Perhaps there is a correlation? A breakdown of morbidity by race might help to understand things better.
      As for your second point, I am hopeful that the reason that this the use of the Zelenko protocol is being damped down is because it actually works and they know it! BUT, their is an insufficient supply to handle the current cases plus prophylaxis. Pharmacies and laboratories need to be ramping up and pumping this stuff out!
      Of course special care must be taken for patients with Cardio problems.
      Dr. Smith of the Smith Center for Infectious Disease and Urban Health (https://www.smithcenternj.org/) felt that it could mean the end of the pandemic. If you look at his practice, he has enormous SJW cred but his findings run contradictory to the “Orange Man Bad” crowd so that may be thrown out the window!

      1. I didn’t look up Albany GA before, as it is such a small city, but Wikipedia does have an entry.
        It turns out that two factors may have contributed heavily to the problem.
        The first is they have an annual Mardi Gras, with a Marathon and half-marathon at the same time. The Marathon is a big to do because it is a qualifying race for the Boston Marathon.
        The second is the largest industry listed is healthcare. Wikipedia didn’t exactly specify, but such a small city would not support a large healthcare industry unless there are a lot of residential healthcare centers.
        The Albany authorities and newspaper also mentioned a large scale funeral.
        I believe those together contribute much more to the problem than the majority black population. There are other southern rural towns with majority black population that do not have the problem.

        1. There were two large scaled funerals attended by large groups from two Atlanta churches, in which one of the pastors from Atlanta was tested positive.

          Albany, GA, Dougherty county is still reaping the whirlwind from those two big funerals on the 29th of February and March 7. That small county now has 716 cases and 31 deaths – the 2nd highest number of cases in GA – just under Fulton county.

          Tracing the contact information of the patients linked the outbreak to the funerals: https://www.walb.com/2020/03/17/watch-live-dougherty-co-address-latest-coronavirus/

          “At the Tuesday press conference, officials said they believe the COVID-19 cases in Dougherty County are linked to two funerals. The funerals of Johnny Carter and Andrew Jerome Mitchell were heavily attended by members of Gethsemane Worship Center and New Direction Christian churches. Officials said there is also a possible connection to Martin Luther King Memorial Chapel.”

          There was likely a lot of close contact – hugging, kissing, crying on shoulders, etc.

          Latest figures (7pm 4/6/20) put Albany/Dougherty county 2nd in the state, just behind Atlanta/Fulton county with Dougherty 722 cases – 44 deaths and still growing at an alarming rate.

          https://dph.georgia.gov/georgia-department-public-health-covid-19-daily-status-report

      2. Sickle cell trait (heterozygous for sickle cell gene) protects against malaria. If SARS-CoV-2 actually digested hemoglobin like the malarial parasite, sickle cell trait would protect against it, too.
        HCQ’s anti-viral mechanism of action is completely different than its anti-malarial MOA (although it does work by raising cellular pH in both cases). Quinoline drugs have been studied as anti-virals for at least 10 years. That is why the French doctors were able to jump on the study so fast.

    3. There is a trial called PATCH 2 and PATCH 3 going on in New York.
      Listen to first 30 minutes of latest podcast from TWiV

    4. Well, so I finally got on Breitbart, and guess what, it says the whole Presidential press conference today was on hydroxychloroquine. And the good news to Chris in the Bridge (a la Horatius?) is that (per Townhall) the DHHS has acquired 30 million doses of the drug already. And the numbers on coronavirus, coincidental or not, appear to be stabilizing. Stabilizing is better than keep going up, and you have to stabilize before going down. At least it puts an upper bound on the damage.

    5. New York has been run into the ground by leftists. They have overseen huge rent increases, while also bringing in huge numbers of illegal aliens for labor. The result? Multigenerational families crammed into tiny apartments, many of whom come from countries with lower hygiene standards that they continue to practice once they get here. They also have poor health in general, having little to no contact with medical services unless it’s in an emergency room.

      While the people have been packed in like sardines, Cuomo has closed many public hospitals due to “budget” issues. So more people with fewer health care providers.

      In other words, the Dems who run New York managed to recreate the same slum conditions we worked so hard to eradicate in the 20th century. New York used to have regular outbreaks. Now that the progressives have taken over they’ll keep regressing back to the early 20th century.

      This is why American cities where the people are stacked on top of each other and we still have decent health care systems are fairing much better. Local governments still have the most control over local outcomes at times like this. As much as the media likes to “federalize” every problem, it’s not how our government functions.

    6. https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/the_unusual_covid19_political_phenomenon.html

      8kun.top/qresearch/res/8701699.html#q8701869

      The Unusual COVID-19 Political Phenomenon

      To everybody’s surprise, for each coronavirus case in Republican-governed states, there are approximately four (!) coronavirus cases in Democrat-governed states. For example, the ratio for March 24, 2020, was 83% vs. 17%. We are talking here about the relative, not the absolute numbers of coronavirus cases. In other words, we analyze the number of cases in Republican-governed or Democrat-governed states divided by the total number of cases.

    7. New York City is a Democrat-led city, and Democrat led cities have 4 times the number of covid-19 cases as Republican-led cities:

      https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/04/the_unusual_covid19_political_phenomenon.html

      The Unusual COVID-19 Political Phenomenon

      To everybody’s surprise, for each coronavirus case in Republican-governed states, there are approximately four (!) coronavirus cases in Democrat-governed states. For example, the ratio for March 24, 2020, was 83% vs. 17%. We are talking here about the relative, not the absolute numbers of coronavirus cases. In other words, we analyze the number of cases in Republican-governed or Democrat-governed states divided by the total number of cases.

    8. New York City is so densely populated that the spread of a communicable disease is like putting a match to a flame. It is also one of the largest hubs of activity in the US. Many, many people coming and going, from and to all over the world. It is perfectly logical for them to have such staggering numbers of Covid-19 isn’t it?

    9. The New York metropolitan area has probably the largest number of people that commute via mass transit, both within the city by bus and subway, as well as to the suburbs in New Jersey, Long Island, Connecticut, and just north of the city, where there was a substantial outbreak. These methods of transportation, as well as the rush hour crowds on the street could provide for easy transmission quickly throughout the population.
      Just a guess…

    10. NYC has a lot of Orthodox Jews, too, who are not obeying the isolate rules at all. Weddings, funerals, celebrations. In NYC & NJ, and other areas. Also I’ve seen a few videos of youths in big groups hanging around all over the city, like youths do. And the public transportation system—thousands and thousands of people packed into trains and buses? Plus the mayor is running fewer cars, so they’re even more packed! Many, many, many NYers don’t have cars, they have to use public transport.

  16. Seems like a pretty coherent account. Would not dismiss it out of hand because written by a lay person.

    I have also seen reports that researchers in Australia have done in vitro testing of Ivermectin on the WuFlu virus, and the results were very promising. And Ivermectin has been safely used in humans for years to treat parasitic worms.

  17. New disease, apparently if China isn’t lying about containment, they sure seemed to find a cure for themselves quickly.

    1. If China isn’t lying about ANYTHING …
      what are the chances of that?
      The Chicom are the most despicable rulers in the world. They have zero morals. None. Worst than the EU, and EU showed Italy what membership therein is worth.

      1. Riiiiiiiight that’s why I said Not a bio-weapon No-No-No!! Newp Nadda No chance, No way josé!

  20. This might be a reach but as a physician I’ve been aggressively treating patients here in the west with the hydroxychloroquine+high dose zinc (200mg per day)+azithromycin with good results but started getting even better when we added a true functional glutathione. We were awarded a patent on this product last year and are currently seeking several further patent continuations (along with international patents) as we were planning to create a biotech around it (meaning we already have the financing/investment and know it works like it should — first one to truly work or to be validated — the only one that works in the marketplace). And after reading these comments and this great article we believe we now know what it was doing and why — it helps prevent the cytokine cascade/storm in the lungs and the overwhelming oxidative stress as mentioned and when used along with hydroxychloroquine probably helps resolve the porphyrin problem more effectively. It is also extremely antiviral (macrophages use it to attack viruses) which is some of our first NDIs for which we are going after with the FDA. But these are all mostly just theories buttressed with the recent clinical knowledge gained by treating a lot of sick patients.

    Hope this helps the thoughts and conversation.

    2. I’m interested in what you mean by “a true functional glutathione.”

      FYI:I have Crohn’s, asthma , COPD (recently diagnosed) — a wonky immune system. Taking a very good liposomal glutathione for the last year-and-a-half has made a huge position difference (no colds, respiratory infections, etc.)

  21. In 2012, the pandemic that the world had been anticipating for years finally hit. Unlike 2009’s H1N1, this new influenza strain — originating from wild geese — was extremely virulent and deadly. Even the most pandemic-prepared nations were quickly overwhelmed when the virus streaked around the world, infecting nearly 20 percent of the global population and killing 8 million in just seven months, the majority of them healthy young adults. The pandemic also had a deadly effect on economies: international mobility of both people and goods screeched to a halt, debilitating industries like tourism and breaking global supply chains. Even locally, normally bustling shops and office buildings sat empty for months, devoid of both employees and customers

    http://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller%20Foundation.pdf

    1. The above link takes you to a report that does contain the text (which should have been put in quotes) within one of four fictional scenarios about how different styles of government would handle problems.

  22. I think there are several key points that were not considered:

    1) how does the virus (or viral proteins) gain access to hemoglobin (Hb). Hb is tucked away inside red blood cells (RBCs). The RBC plasma membrane would limit access unless COVID-19 infected RBCs, which I have not seen any evidence of.

    2) think of the RBC as a soccer stadium. If you filled up that soccer stadium with soccer balls until they started spilling over the top of the seats and outside the stadium, that would represent how many Hb molecules are in a single RBC. There are also 10e6 RBCs per microliter of blood. The kind of levels of COVID-19 RNA I have seen reported in blood on the level of 10e4 RNA/microliter and only in the sickest individuals. Just based on back of the envelop calculations, this is many orders of magnitude less virus than would be necessary if the proposed hypothesis were feasible.

    1. THANK YOU. This is hokum without raw data to back it up. Not only do I not have reason to believe that the virus or its proteins get into RBCs, there’s no reason for it to. There’s nothing to work with for reproduction no nucleus.

      1. The absence of a nucleus is irrelevant, as viruses don’t know if a nucleus is present or not. They just look for the surface markers they use to attach to the membrane, and gain entry, regardless of what type of cell it is or whether it has a nucleus. They just won’t likely be able to replicate once inside an RBC.

        1. Good point, but for there to be enough viral protein to displace O2 from heme there would have to be at least productive infection. I mean you can have infection lead to some synthesis of viral product without replication but I don’t think the math is gonna work here. There needs to be replication or it’s a drop in the ocean of heme.

      2. No nucleus needed. COVID-19 is an RNA virus, all you need are ribosomes and doesn’t every cell have those?

          1. Unless are we saying that a damage done to RBCs can occur via the virus has infecting the lungs? The virus has to replicate via a nucleus to survive so that cannot occur in RBCs. But RBC damage occurs apart of the disease?

    2. The fact that heme is inside RBCs and as far as we know SARS-CoV-2 does not infect RBCs … because if it did, the glycoproteins are membrane-bound and aren’t going to be touching large amounts of heme plus we know the virus enters via ACE2 repectors … we’d have to define how the virus enters the RBC and how could it replicate without a nucleus. So a take-away is this is a hypothesis against applying blood dialysis or transfusion as a treatment_?

  23. Thank you Kate for an eye opening post. I’m definitely taking your “take with a grain of salt” comment seriously but the information reads coherently enough to be believable. Your decision to share with your knowledgeable skeptical by nature audience was rightly placed.

  24. Officials ‘stressed’ the animals did not die from corona virus.

    How reassuring.

  25. Just popping in to say hello and add some context before anything gets out of hand.

    Me and my dad (retired M.D.) were intrigued by the possibilities behind this particular piece of research coming across my desk yesterday morning: https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-19_Disease_ORF8_and_Surface_Glycoprotein_Inhibit_Heme_Metabolism_by_Binding_to_Porphyrin/11938173/5

    Being all stuck at home under quarantine, we wanted to learn more. My dad provided the medical knowledge, I provided the tech & sleuthing skills, and we came up with this core hypothesis. As we pulled together a series of anecdotal data, some pre-prints, and even some peer-reviewed papers, a clearer picture of the hypothesis formed. We found missing pieces precisely where we thought we would. And yes, we became convinced this is not only plausible but quite likely (or a similar mechanic) to be the case.

    I threw it up on Medium just to save a copy and see if anyone would have feedback. We got plenty — much over both of our heads, some out-of-left-field fantastic ideas. For example, if this turns out to be the case, and hyperbaric oxygen therapy might save lives (we have far fewer hyperbaric chambers in the US than ICU beds), a mountain climber suggested portable hyperbaric bags which are pretty cheap (in comparison) and can fit through hospital doors could do the trick.

    This was precisely the type of interaction we were looking for.

    The article has since been taken down by Medium, but it seems it garnered sufficient interest in the 12 hours it was up as to be handed off to much more qualified and experienced hands. We’re hopeful some of this can be found to be useful; it may or may not, but NOT sharing it would have weighed heavier on our minds if we found out later this theory, or something similar to it, could have helped save lives and yet we did nothing about it.

    Cheers and best of luck, everyone stay safe and thanks.
    -AG

    1. Thanks for the note, and especially for the “…it garnered sufficient interest in the 12 hours it was up as to be handed off to much more qualified and experienced hands.” Most of us don’t know enough to know what we don’t know. It’s reassuring to see you’re not pounding on the table and yelling You fools, you must do exactly as I say or we’re all doomed! Doomed, I say!”

    2. Hey Andrew, So glad you shared this! Good news travels fast and my friend forwarded it to me on facebook today (4/6/2020) I would like to add this to your findings regarding oxidative stress: Scientist Luc Montagnier, who won a Noble Prize as a co-discoverer of the HIV virus… HE SAYS: “The fundamental problem of this specific virus and all other viruses is OXIDATIVE STRESS. You need an intervention on a cellular level. Our cells have been weakened because of many environmental factors and this produces oxidative stress. Eliminating or lowering oxidative stress is the key factor to combatting these viruses and in turn will boost our immune system”

      Which leads me to share that I have found a way to significantly reduce oxidative stress at the cellular level, which has been peer reviewed and published in Free Radical Biology and Medicine. I have been on it since 2009 and am grateful to have a significant level of protection, in case I am exposed. Happy to share more information with you or your dad (or anyone else)…In trying to figure out who libertymavenstock was, I found you on twitter, so feel free to reach me there also. @categustafson

      1. Hi, Could you tell me how to access your article? I am interested in anything I can do to help myself and my loved ones. Can you tell me what you are taking? Thanks

    3. AG—Thank you for speaking up. I certainly hope doctors will be wise in these times and not continue to do what hasn’t worked.
      And. . . I liked the “cough Trump cough” part in your “Covid-19 had us fooled” article.

      WWG1WGA

  26. Hmmm. I had a brief cold in early January; it went away. In early February I went to donate blood, my iron level was too low. I adjusted my diet. Early March, blood iron was lower. I went to the doctor, diagnosed with mild anemia. My hgA1c was low, too (could be from a burst of red blood cell making.) Hmmm.

  27. “This is a completely new disease”

    Yeah, it’s SO COMPLETELY different that after genetic analysis, they called it “SARS-COV2”,

    It’s as different as the “NEW AND IMPROVED!!!” formula of a generic laundry detergent. That is to say, not much.

  29. Considering females usually have lower iron levels in their blood, this could help explain the higher mortality rate in males.

  30. As to the hemoglobin hypothesis. I don’t buy it. There are technical errors in the explanation, which destroy the credibility of the original author.
    For example malaria is not a bacteria, but a eucaryotic single cell parasite Plasmodium. Secondly the original author describes the coronavirus COVID-19 (a known RNA virus) as containing ‘DNA snippets’.
    If you get these basic things wrong, you’re unlikely to be correct with a radical hypothesis.
    (PhD Microbiologist level expertise of comment poster)

    1. Thank you. Are there any viruses with RNA-DNA genomes? One strand of one nucleic acid and another complete or partial strand of the other nucleic acid?

    2. But… the mechanism hypothesized seems that it might be consistent with the effectiveness of chloroquine and hydroxychlroquine. Chloroquine was originally derived from methylene blue, which was also used as an antimalarial. Methylene blue is “protective” of hemoglobin, and is used to treat methemoglobinemia. Do chloroquine and and hydroxychloroquine interact similarly to methylene blue with hemoglobin?

      Just askin’

      1. This was my question as well. Methylene blue and high doses of absorbic acid are typically used to treat methemoglobinemia, and that is what you are describing.

  31. That link with the red ‘read it’ next to it…um…Dr Lawes could you read it please? I did a abstract-figures skim and this…this does not look like a good paper to me. Too much reliance on molecular biology for one thing-you can make any two proteins ‘interact’ if you want them to. For another they are investigating the molecular biology of ‘ORF8’-is this even really expressed in vivo? Sure it’s not a pseudogene? I looked in the and it states that it’s a non-structural protein but does not make clear what cite it gets that from.

  33. There is definitely something to be said for NOT being intubated. Any form of treatment that has shown efficacy without the utilization of that measure has my full support… it may not BE possible, but definitely preferable……he’ll, I’D be happy with my Cpap pushing pure 02..instead of air.?

  34. Sure are a lot of medical experts out there.
    How many of you fuckers are willing to put your lives out there to back your expertise?

    Know-it-alls need to be beaten into comas.
    Or whipped then hanged.

    1. I appreciate that there are a lot of medical experts willing to comment. That’s how we learn things.

  35. While ambulatory take: Tylenol ( Acetaminophen ); Diamox ( Acetazolamide ) is better. Iron supplements.
    AVOID: Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (Advil, Motrin, exc… aka: Ibuprofen).

    While nonambulatory take: hydroxychloroquine+high dose zinc+azithromycin+O2+Iron+D3

    1. Is this why Vitamin C is useful as adjunct Tx for COVID-19 patients – because Vit C helps the body absorb iron?

  37. For what it’s worth when this was first blowing up in New Orleans there was something circulating supposedly from an ER doctor saying why are so many people coming in for non Covid ER things so hypoxic? The speculation was that mild covids could be unusually hypoxic with no idea of being hypoxic. It was a hey this is weird, is this why it’s happening post from an unverified source. I thought it was an interesting one off. Now it seems it’s not a one off. Time will tell. As my significant other said – best not to get a new disease early.

  38. A contrarian data point I’ll throw out is the skew towards more men dying that women. Women during their child baring years are at high risk for anemia vs men and the elderly. Why are the death numbers not skewed towards women? Same with children.

  39. Going down the rabbit hole a little further – looking at the bond structure of hemoglobin we are to believe the iron is pulled out of the middle of that structure and a bunch of other molecules are plugged into that space- so what exactly is the blood now looking like? and a bunch of free iron is now floating around too? I think that would be noticeable before now in the look and texture of blood samples. Also think other theories consistent with ARDS support consistent bilateral involvement.

    1. Thank you. The Plasmodium (malarial parasite) liberates heme by entering the erythrocyte and digesting hemoglobin. (HCQ prevents the parasite from crystallizing the heme and neutralizing its toxicity). The parasite is injected into the bloodstream by the Anophiles mosquito, so it is no great stretch for it to find the erythrocyte. But SARS-CoV-2 is supposed to pass through the alveoli without damaging the lungs, enter the capillary, enter the erythrocyte, “bind to the heme,” somehow detach it from the rest of the hemoglobin molecule, escape the erythrocyte, liberate the iron ion from the heme, and pass back through the capillary walls to the alveoli, carrying the iron ion? William of Ockham would be quite displeased.

    2. I belong to a FB group of medical professionals and have seen for a while now nurses and phlebotomists talking about hor black and strange the blood looks, yet lacking any of the regular conditions that would cause it.

  40. Exactly right. It’s bullshit. The very first tweets several weeks ago from radiology types was to educate other radiologists on the nature of the problem, the inflammation blocking the ends of the capillaries and the fibrous scarring. If the blood can’t translate across the capillaries, it’s game over. Fighting inflammation is as necessary as is the forcing of air down toward the capillaries, and placing the patients prone to relieve weight on the lungs.

  42. This from my father-in-law who is a retired biochemist and immunologist .

    I don’t think this is a useful article. It offers no references to support any of the statements, some of which are quite radical. I do know that there are already trials underway to evaluate the benefits of hydroxychloroquinine and these will shortly yield some answers as to whether this drug which alleviates some of the symptoms of malaria and which for some reason people guess might help COVID sufferers is beneficial in this virus infection.
    The rest is gobbledygook! He gives no evidence that COVID 19 binds to the heme molecules in red cells and further that this separates the iron from the globin protein.
    They then go on to imply that the free iron atoms (he calls them ions without further explanation Fe++ or Fe+++(?) are the source of the virus toxicity – no mention of transferrin an iron binding protein in the plasma which mops up spilled iron atoms). He then goes on to say that the virus attaches to the porphyrins of the heme (no evidence given or known about heme – virus binding!) He then likens it to CO poisoning which is a further big leap.
    From this point on we are in a biochemical fantasyland.
    It may be that hydroxychloroquinine works, let us hope so, but this explanation of its mode of action is unconvincing!

    Thanks for giving me the opportunity to comment!

    Bob

    It reminds me of that tale where someone explains why fire engines are red.

    1. William McNally, Thanks for your posted info from your immunologist, biochemist father-in-law!!!!

    2. Isn’t that a drug for lupus (auto immune) or malaria (parasite)? Didn’t a couple die from self medicating with this form of drug?

  43. Um, did anyone actually read the pseudo article? Yes I in fact have proof it is bs and so should you if you actually read it and absorb the English language at least a fifth grade level or lower. Everything he describes is in fact ards related and pneumonia related. The condition the author claims is the real form to add insult to injury is in fact related to the brain not the lungs after a coma. Misinformation is not cool and you will most likely aid someone in getting themselves sick or otherwise. People are dying and more will follow if people don’t take this seriously. Hospitals are overwhelmed as it is. Please stop the madness.

  44. I’m not a medical person, but I understand biology.
    I’m not saying the theory here is necessarily true, however if it is, wouldn’t a blood transfusion buy the patient a lot of time for the patient’s own immune system to catch up?
    Meaning, if it’s the inability of the blood to carry oxygen that kills the patient, give them new blood from a survivor.
    The new blood will be free of the ‘broken’ blood cells, and also carry antibodies for the person to fight off the infection while his own immune system catches up.
    If there’s any truth at all here, it ought to at least be tested.
    What do you medical peeps think?

    1. Makes total sense to me Eric!

      Blood infusions from survivors compared to plasma with antibodies would test that aspect of the theory well, I would expect.

  47. “Ye worste aspect of the plague so far hath beene the antiquarians who, suddenlye possessed with the belief they understande ye natural sciences, have been spoutinge off their pens, thinking they can perceive the causes of our lamentable contagion”— Samuel Pepys, March 25, 1665

  48. So, any thoughts on why NY and to a lesser degree NJ, are being hit so much harder?
    Any chance that the increased rates in NY and NJ are left over affects from 9/11 Toxic dust? After all for the past 19 years they have been reporting about all the lung problems, cancers and pulmonary issues related to the 9/11 aftermath.
    What’s more, population density alone cannot be the explanation because around the world there are many cities with nearly as high or higher population densities that are not approaching numbers anywhere near the numbers in NY and NJ.

  49. This article is going on the assumption that viruses are the CAUSE for disease, which is false. There are many many resources available for free to prove that viruses are not causing any disease.

    They are merely an indication of an underlying issue of toxicity. Vonderplanitz explains viruses as “solvents” that dissolve these toxins away.

    Here he is explaining all of it
    https://youtube.com/watch?t=36m12s&v=tyCZywmiZLk

    If you don’t want to watch an hour long video, I wrote a series of articles on the subject here.

    https://parentofsociety.com/t/germ-theory-hoax-coronavirus-cant-make-you-sick-and-vaccines-dont-work-part-1

  50. This is so full of supposition especially about the virus entering RBCs. As a medical scientist it’s obvious you are not knowledgeable enough to be posting this. It’s misleading. . Ye worste aspect of the plague so far hath beene the antiquarians who, suddenlye possessed with the belief they understande ye natural sciences, have been spoutinge off their pens, thinking they can perceive the causes of our lamentable contagion”— Samuel Pepys, March 25, 1665

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