24 Replies to “Last of the Doolittle Raiders passes on”
And where was his safe space? Nowhere to be seen, the minute they left the Hornet.
Imagine the balls of such men, in that era, to fly right into the mouth of Imperial Japan.
When my older brother again prattles on about America using nuclear weapons against Japan, I again remind him of who started the war.
“If you start a bar fight and get your a** kicked, don’t expect me to feel sorry for you.”
May all the veterans who made it back, and those who didn’t, rest in peace.
Part-way through that interview, the conditions under which the raiders took off from the Hornet is discussed. The movie about the raid, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, included actual film footage of that takeoff.
How that was accomplished has to be seen to be believed. Doolittle’s B-25 was the first to take off and, because of the pitching and rolling of the ship, nobody knew for the first few seconds if it had successfully become airborne. Once his plane had been spotted, the other crews knew that they could do it as well.
That was the first and only time they took off from a carrier.
The carrier was going flank speed, 25kts head on into a gale of 25-40 kts wind and 15-20 foot waves. This gave the B-25’s 40-60mph over the wings, at dead start, So they “only” had to power up to 50-60 knots to get lift. Because the carrier was going so fast, and the ocean rough, the bow was pitching radically.
If Doolittle misjudged, the carrier would of plowed over him. The others would of continued on.
Part of the training of the crews was for taking off over a short distance under full engine power. After all, the B-25s weren’t designed for to fly off an aircraft carrier, let alone for the conditions under which the mission began.
The takeoffs were timed to coincide with the pitching of the deck so as to allow the planes to not only clear the ship but the ocean waves as well. Doolittle’s plane lifted off, but because of the way the Hornet‘s bow was moving, he could have easily ditched in the water. For a brief moment, nobody on board the ship knew if he succeeded.
Rest in peace Richard Cole. You helped in a great effort. No safe spaces there is right.
I wonder if our current generation could rise to the challenge if needed. In the the face of a present threat to our civilization it seems we are being undermined by our own.
Whether they could rise to the challenge or not is certainly a question up for debate. The larger question: “Is our civilization as it stands worth saving?”
At any rate…a huge thank you and debt of gratitude to Mr. Cole and all the brave men like him that got us this far.
Everyone knew they didn’t have fuel capacity to make it to safety yet not one refused to go.
Ken, although this generation seems hopeless I have full confidence that in the face of imminent danger one (1) person will rise up and say, “I can do it, I’ll go.” It’s the heroic condition that exists in mankind. You don’t know who has it until the situation presents itself.
Once one person steps up others follow.
Everyone knew they didn’t have fuel capacity to make it to safety yet not one refused to go.
From what I understand, the crews were all volunteers, but they weren’t told what the actual mission was until later on.
The original objective was to take off from a point much closer to Japan, drop the bombs, and then land in China, presumably to re-fuel and fly out again. But the task force had been spotted by a fishing boat, which may have notified the Japanese military that the Americans were coming.
Because of that, the decision was made to take off at a point further away than had been planned. The result was that the planes didn’t have enough fuel to make it to the airfields there were supposed to land at plus they didn’t have proper daylight once they got to China.
Lt-Gen James Doolittle was the US Commander of the fire-bombing of Dresden (Feb 1945.) Approximately 25,000 civilians were burnt alive by freedom and democracy bombs dropped by the US/UK.
‘LeMay said, “If we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals.” And I think he’s right. He, and I’d say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?’
Robert McNamara
The Japanese killed 25 million Chinese. In the last month of the war, the US was losing 30,000 a month. 250,000 Asians were dying of starvation every month. General Marshal and Admiral King asked for 1 million more draftees to make up for causalities for the invasion of Japan. Also 500,000 Purple Hearts.
If atomic bombs failed, or even worked( 5-10 were scheduled for the invasion beaches ). The Japanese military was ready like Hitler to fight to the death of every man, woman and child. The Japanese would cease to exist and Japan would be an American State.
Everything and every time, McNamara was authoritatively wrong. A pompous loser.
John Batchelor interviewed the author of a book about the proposed invasion of Japan. That interview shows up in the RSS feed of his archived shows once in a while and it’s chilling to listen to.
That campaign, had it been necessary, would have been a slaughter. Entire units of the Japanese army were ordered to die in place. In addition, it would have drained the available American manpower as there wouldn’t have been enough draftees that could have been trained to replace the dead or wounded.
Truman had a difficult decision to make. Had he not approved the dropping of the bombs, he would have had to deal with the high casualty rate and the war could have lasted past 1946. As you mentioned, a lot of Purple Hearts were produced for that possibility.
Maybe the worst part of it was that the Japanese guessed where the landing sites were and had sent troops there in preparation for the invasion.
A number of people suggested that an off-shore demonstration of a bomb should have been used instead. But it was decided that it might not have convinced the Japanese government.
Wars are fought to win. Persians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, and Tatars all fought to win and conquer.
It’s called war sport and civilians are always targets, only a fool would think otherwise.
When I consider courage and those that have it, I will always think of the group of aviators known as the Doolittle Raiders. They were asked to step up and give their lives for their country. They answered in the affirmative. What men.
I think our current generation of men and women under arms would acquit themselves well. The children currently attending college and university right now? I’m not so sure. I don’t think mommy and daddy could buy their way into pilot training.
As for McNamara, he was an ass then, and he still holds that title.
They were asked to step up and give their lives for their country. They answered in the affirmative. What men.
I’m reminded of the closing scene in the movie The Bridges At Toko-Ri. Fredric March plays a U. S. Navy admiral and his character comments about the pilots who serve on the carriers and what they do when they fly over Korea. He ends it with: “Where do we get such men?”
“”On Aug. 9, Japan’s six-member supreme war council was meeting in a bunker under Tokyo when word was first received that Nagasaki had been destroyed.”” “”” The country’s ruling military elite had a shocking indifference toward the atomic bombings.”” They were engrossed in discussions about the Soviet invasion.
Since in Japan they still worship their Imperial war criminals to this day and disavow their war crimes, another A bomb or two that would have taken out their war criminals would have been in order.
Some one questioned whether today’s youth could answer the call? We saw the Canadian military in action in Afganistan. What Canada needs more than anything is leadership. There is little to be seen. The socialist (communist) rule this country and nothing will change until Canada breaks up. That breakup is inevitable.
For the first few years in Afghanistan Canadians fought to win. For the rest of the dragged out war they simply tried to stay alive. That appeared to be official policy.
No debate needed theUS did the right thing.As far as Dresden goes that was widely regarded as a lesson to Germany as in no more wars from your nation
In Canada it’s not the military that is the problem it’s command. By command I refer to the politicians at the top.
We have announced that we are leaving Mali just when we’re needed the most. Our presence there was a response to our knee jerk reaction to pulling our jets out of the ISIS fight. The Papineau Ponce (PP) wasn’t going to carry on with a Harper military action no matter how valid it was. No sir.
Our commitment was not large but it was effective and the PP was roundly and justifiably criticized by our allies. That blowback was the impetus for our involvement in Mali.
This past week Canada announced our commitment in the Ukraine will continue. Our military is stretched and we probably couldn’t reasonably continue on in both places. The Ukraine is Chrystia Freeland’s War. She could care less about resolving the issue amicably and only wants to fight along tribal lines. The renewed military duty has her fingerprints all over it. She is acting more like a general than a diplomat. But then she has yet to display any diplomatic skill at any level.
Estimates of how many Chinese were murdered by the ruthless Imperial Japanese Army and its Chinese collaborators in their efforts to track down the American bomber crews who landed in and were helped to escape Japanese occupied China range up into the hundreds of thousands.
The idea of “demonstration atomic bombs” has always been part of the leftist meme of “having their cake and eating it too”. The Japanese had experts who were well aware of how time consuming producing each atomic bomb would be. It was only when they realized two different types were in use that they agreed steady continued devastation of Japan was a certainty.
And where was his safe space? Nowhere to be seen, the minute they left the Hornet.
Imagine the balls of such men, in that era, to fly right into the mouth of Imperial Japan.
When my older brother again prattles on about America using nuclear weapons against Japan, I again remind him of who started the war.
“If you start a bar fight and get your a** kicked, don’t expect me to feel sorry for you.”
May all the veterans who made it back, and those who didn’t, rest in peace.
I always refer to this Bill Whittle video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylMbvf3sn_g
I listened to it this morning.
Part-way through that interview, the conditions under which the raiders took off from the Hornet is discussed. The movie about the raid, Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, included actual film footage of that takeoff.
How that was accomplished has to be seen to be believed. Doolittle’s B-25 was the first to take off and, because of the pitching and rolling of the ship, nobody knew for the first few seconds if it had successfully become airborne. Once his plane had been spotted, the other crews knew that they could do it as well.
That was the first and only time they took off from a carrier.
The carrier was going flank speed, 25kts head on into a gale of 25-40 kts wind and 15-20 foot waves. This gave the B-25’s 40-60mph over the wings, at dead start, So they “only” had to power up to 50-60 knots to get lift. Because the carrier was going so fast, and the ocean rough, the bow was pitching radically.
If Doolittle misjudged, the carrier would of plowed over him. The others would of continued on.
https://m.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-ii/purposely-going-ship-captain-john-p-cromwell-earned-moh-saved-countless-x.html
Part of the training of the crews was for taking off over a short distance under full engine power. After all, the B-25s weren’t designed for to fly off an aircraft carrier, let alone for the conditions under which the mission began.
The takeoffs were timed to coincide with the pitching of the deck so as to allow the planes to not only clear the ship but the ocean waves as well. Doolittle’s plane lifted off, but because of the way the Hornet‘s bow was moving, he could have easily ditched in the water. For a brief moment, nobody on board the ship knew if he succeeded.
Rest in peace Richard Cole. You helped in a great effort. No safe spaces there is right.
I wonder if our current generation could rise to the challenge if needed. In the the face of a present threat to our civilization it seems we are being undermined by our own.
Discovery Channel Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9NbVUDO1FY
Whether they could rise to the challenge or not is certainly a question up for debate. The larger question: “Is our civilization as it stands worth saving?”
At any rate…a huge thank you and debt of gratitude to Mr. Cole and all the brave men like him that got us this far.
Richard Cole RIP
https://youtu.be/nC1MUfl1YZs
In his own words.
(3:42)
Everyone knew they didn’t have fuel capacity to make it to safety yet not one refused to go.
Ken, although this generation seems hopeless I have full confidence that in the face of imminent danger one (1) person will rise up and say, “I can do it, I’ll go.” It’s the heroic condition that exists in mankind. You don’t know who has it until the situation presents itself.
Once one person steps up others follow.
Everyone knew they didn’t have fuel capacity to make it to safety yet not one refused to go.
From what I understand, the crews were all volunteers, but they weren’t told what the actual mission was until later on.
The original objective was to take off from a point much closer to Japan, drop the bombs, and then land in China, presumably to re-fuel and fly out again. But the task force had been spotted by a fishing boat, which may have notified the Japanese military that the Americans were coming.
Because of that, the decision was made to take off at a point further away than had been planned. The result was that the planes didn’t have enough fuel to make it to the airfields there were supposed to land at plus they didn’t have proper daylight once they got to China.
Lt-Gen James Doolittle was the US Commander of the fire-bombing of Dresden (Feb 1945.) Approximately 25,000 civilians were burnt alive by freedom and democracy bombs dropped by the US/UK.
‘LeMay said, “If we’d lost the war, we’d all have been prosecuted as war criminals.” And I think he’s right. He, and I’d say I, were behaving as war criminals. LeMay recognized that what he was doing would be thought immoral if his side had lost. But what makes it immoral if you lose and not immoral if you win?’
Robert McNamara
The Japanese killed 25 million Chinese. In the last month of the war, the US was losing 30,000 a month. 250,000 Asians were dying of starvation every month. General Marshal and Admiral King asked for 1 million more draftees to make up for causalities for the invasion of Japan. Also 500,000 Purple Hearts.
If atomic bombs failed, or even worked( 5-10 were scheduled for the invasion beaches ). The Japanese military was ready like Hitler to fight to the death of every man, woman and child. The Japanese would cease to exist and Japan would be an American State.
https://youtu.be/_4uDfg38gyk
Everything and every time, McNamara was authoritatively wrong. A pompous loser.
John Batchelor interviewed the author of a book about the proposed invasion of Japan. That interview shows up in the RSS feed of his archived shows once in a while and it’s chilling to listen to.
That campaign, had it been necessary, would have been a slaughter. Entire units of the Japanese army were ordered to die in place. In addition, it would have drained the available American manpower as there wouldn’t have been enough draftees that could have been trained to replace the dead or wounded.
Truman had a difficult decision to make. Had he not approved the dropping of the bombs, he would have had to deal with the high casualty rate and the war could have lasted past 1946. As you mentioned, a lot of Purple Hearts were produced for that possibility.
Maybe the worst part of it was that the Japanese guessed where the landing sites were and had sent troops there in preparation for the invasion.
A number of people suggested that an off-shore demonstration of a bomb should have been used instead. But it was decided that it might not have convinced the Japanese government.
Wars are fought to win. Persians, Assyrians, Greeks, Romans, Muslims, and Tatars all fought to win and conquer.
It’s called war sport and civilians are always targets, only a fool would think otherwise.
When I consider courage and those that have it, I will always think of the group of aviators known as the Doolittle Raiders. They were asked to step up and give their lives for their country. They answered in the affirmative. What men.
I think our current generation of men and women under arms would acquit themselves well. The children currently attending college and university right now? I’m not so sure. I don’t think mommy and daddy could buy their way into pilot training.
As for McNamara, he was an ass then, and he still holds that title.
They were asked to step up and give their lives for their country. They answered in the affirmative. What men.
I’m reminded of the closing scene in the movie The Bridges At Toko-Ri. Fredric March plays a U. S. Navy admiral and his character comments about the pilots who serve on the carriers and what they do when they fly over Korea. He ends it with: “Where do we get such men?”
I used to think the A bombs were overkill. Some new insights about the Soviet connection at
https://nationalpost.com/news/did-the-atomic-bombings-of-hiroshima-and-nagasaki-really-end-the-war
“”On Aug. 9, Japan’s six-member supreme war council was meeting in a bunker under Tokyo when word was first received that Nagasaki had been destroyed.”” “”” The country’s ruling military elite had a shocking indifference toward the atomic bombings.”” They were engrossed in discussions about the Soviet invasion.
Since in Japan they still worship their Imperial war criminals to this day and disavow their war crimes, another A bomb or two that would have taken out their war criminals would have been in order.
Some one questioned whether today’s youth could answer the call? We saw the Canadian military in action in Afganistan. What Canada needs more than anything is leadership. There is little to be seen. The socialist (communist) rule this country and nothing will change until Canada breaks up. That breakup is inevitable.
For the first few years in Afghanistan Canadians fought to win. For the rest of the dragged out war they simply tried to stay alive. That appeared to be official policy.
No debate needed theUS did the right thing.As far as Dresden goes that was widely regarded as a lesson to Germany as in no more wars from your nation
In Canada it’s not the military that is the problem it’s command. By command I refer to the politicians at the top.
We have announced that we are leaving Mali just when we’re needed the most. Our presence there was a response to our knee jerk reaction to pulling our jets out of the ISIS fight. The Papineau Ponce (PP) wasn’t going to carry on with a Harper military action no matter how valid it was. No sir.
Our commitment was not large but it was effective and the PP was roundly and justifiably criticized by our allies. That blowback was the impetus for our involvement in Mali.
This past week Canada announced our commitment in the Ukraine will continue. Our military is stretched and we probably couldn’t reasonably continue on in both places. The Ukraine is Chrystia Freeland’s War. She could care less about resolving the issue amicably and only wants to fight along tribal lines. The renewed military duty has her fingerprints all over it. She is acting more like a general than a diplomat. But then she has yet to display any diplomatic skill at any level.
Estimates of how many Chinese were murdered by the ruthless Imperial Japanese Army and its Chinese collaborators in their efforts to track down the American bomber crews who landed in and were helped to escape Japanese occupied China range up into the hundreds of thousands.
The idea of “demonstration atomic bombs” has always been part of the leftist meme of “having their cake and eating it too”. The Japanese had experts who were well aware of how time consuming producing each atomic bomb would be. It was only when they realized two different types were in use that they agreed steady continued devastation of Japan was a certainty.