Getting our oil to markets other than the United States is vital to ending the discount that Canadian oil trades at but so to is ending regulatory uncertainty that Trudeau has caused. And the fear the industry is facing for its future based on Trudeau’s future plans.
Okay folks …come election time lets all do our part and turn Capt Obvious into Capt Oblivious ……………
Not want to start that much of an argument with you, W.T., but Junior Trudeau Is NOT Captain Obvious. To call Trudeau the Captain would be hurtful to Cptn. Obvious.
Prinz Dummkopf is continuing the war against those uppity Albertans that his father started. He claims kills pipelines for the good of Mommy Gaia but he can’t understand why those peasants aren’t rejoicing when they’re being crushed under his iron heel.
Quebec, the only part of Canada that any Trudeau has ever cared about, can do whatever it jolly well wants to.
Bingo.
Justin is simply repeating what his dad did. This irrational hatred of western Canada and propping up of Quebec is a recipe for disaster that will come to fruition.
Ever since PET, the Quebec-Windsor Corridor has had the attitude that everything it has belongs to it and everything else, particularly the natural resources it needs, is negotiable. That was behind the battle between PET and Peter Lougheed over the price of oil 40 years ago.
During the time of the War Measures Act, I saw what was going on. The rest of the country had become beholden to Quebec and given that province whatever it demanded, yet it complained about what happened on the Plains of Abraham. I suggested to my high school class that if Quebec found it so intolerable, why was it still in Confederation? The reaction was shock and derision, with a few calls by some classmates that I, a naturalized citizen, should go back to where I came from.
Now that it’s become blatantly obvious that the rest of Canada is a colony of Quebec, I wonder if any of the people who would have willingly tar and feather me back then have changed their minds.
Quebec is already destroying itself from within.
It needs some total destruction from without to finish that zombie off.
Enough is enough.
Marionette over in France put another tax on the already doubled gas prices.
65 percent tax on a gallon of gas, He said, so the population will buy more environmentally safe vehicles. Where have we heard that before?
‘Oh Yeah,’ must have been Obama.
Now your good looking and smart pm is wanting to get you to drive more electric trucks and buses, decrease the amount of oil shipped, and protect the environment.
Let me know when the torches start burning government buildings and cars in Canada .
I hope to open a new Chevy dealership.
Well said.
Separation.
No Other Feasible Choice….marc
I would invite Sasatchewan and Manitoba to join us…
And I’m…also in Calgary. Where 8+% unemployment is an aberration not seen since the dirty 30’s…
That the stranglehold is being done on purpose cannot now or ever be disputed. JustDim is on record stating that Les Quebecois are “better” than the rest of Canadians and that Alberta has contolled the “collective Socio-Democratic Agenda”. Classic Talking points of someone who believed EVERY word his Father drilled into him….The HATRED is real Folks, and Albertans do not deserve that – Particularly given we, for the past 30 years, have BANKROLLED Quebec and its people to the tune of some 200 Billion Dollars. It’s time for that to END.
SCREW Quebec
SCREW JustDim Trudeau
…and Screw Eastern Canada
I’ve had well enough of our Province being boned up the (_i_) by those Bastards.
Mr Kenney I trust you have UCP folks monitoring this board.? – GOOD.
“Screw Eastern Canada” – I object to that statement. Don’t put all of us in the same basket, please. We are not all lefties and Trudeau lovers.
Agree
I’m just praying for 2 things:
(a) a brutally cold winter, and
(b) somebody with enough guts to stop the fuel flow to Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton and Vancouver in January.
(standing ovation)
Well I think Jamie, that (a) is coming true for ya right now… the EAST is in a Deep Freeze that is likely to last all winter.
(b) however…? I too long for that to happen – REAL TANGIBLE PRESSURE Particularly for YVR. But I dont think we have much effect on fuel deliveries east of Winterpeg.. ?
We do, all the way to Dryden, Ontario. NW Ontario fuel comes out of the Strathcona refinery in Edmonton, Alberta. Gas, diesel, furnace fuel, lubricants.
Fuel to T-Bay and a bit west is supplied from western crude to Sarnia refineries. How do I know this? Pipelines only flow east along Hwy 17 to Sarnia. I worked for Texaco, in the 1970’s. The western crude, finished products from Sarnia head back west as far as T-Bay. I worked in places like Red Lake and Dryden and points between. Our fuel draws for those projects were trucked all the way from Edmonton. Nothing from Sarnia. Too far & too slow. Hwy 17 is a two lane boat anchor on traffic from the western border with four-lane, Hwy #1 east of Winnipeg. Driven a lot by this cowboy, so I know it well.
I also worked on Texaco tankers in the 70’s, sailing into T-Bay, Sault Ste Marie, and points east, all the way to Botwood Bay, NFLD. We shipped finished product out of Sarnia, the old Texaco refinery in Port Credit, Montreal, Levis Quebec and Halifax.
The situation is changed now that product is supplied from Texas, Oklahoma and other US sources, because operationally, we can’t compete on price or volume, with only 35 million vs 350 million customers. It saves us money to be supplied out of Texas, because they’re such big operations. It doesn’t pay us to build refineries here, just on that alone.
We really should join the USA, but those UEL still hate ’em and their successful escape from class warring, British rule. We suffer for it North of 49. Our elites don’t “govern” us, they “rule” us. Nothing has changed since 1867. You might have noticed lately.
Look where Come by Chance is, then come back and tell me why it was built there, instead of closer to the markets it supplies, which was to be central Canadian customers?
Is there a pipeline to ship it from there (Newfoundland). Nope, Shipments are by tanker, from NFLD. Only a bureaucrat would elect to find a place to stick a refinery in oblivion, on an island, then have them ship by expensive tankers, limited in size by the constraints of harbors & vessel draft, rather than a land based refinery, easily able to ship finished products in bulk, down a safe, right of way called a pipeline, cheaper & with less potential liability due to the nature of “shipping vessels” vs a pipeline. WTF! On top of that the supply is interruptible, gotta load, takes time like 18-36 hours to pump up a 5-10,000 tonne load of fuel, more if a mixed load….I’ve lived that life, on 5.000 tonne tankers able to offload in places like Glace Bay, Toronto, The Sault, T-Bay. Small tankers are expensive to run vs pipe. A pipeline is safer, efficient & cheaper than a tanker!@!!, not continuous flow, again WTF!
So, why was Come by Chance built where it is? Political. Period. Our .gov are brain dead on operational issues best left to the private sector.
Aw come on Jamie, just say it – “let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark”
“let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark”
No more of that talk. Now, let it be MAKE the eastern bastards freeze in the dark.
Western ones too, Sheila
Good call, Jamie.
Hear, hear!
$80 million/day is the number most often mentioned as the revenue lost because of our single market (no export pipelines). Gwyn Morgan, co-founder and ex-CEO of Encana, has pegged the loss at $200 million/day. That’s $1,400,000,000 per week. Either way, it’s a shitload of money. And jobs.
We complain about the price differential we are selling our oil to the States.
In all the writings and complaining, I have yet been able to determine who did the drafting and the negotiating and now the delivery of the oil at this ridiculously low price.
Who did this and why are we continuing to sell our oil at this price?
It’s time for a Trump moment! This is a bad deal for Canada and Canadians and all the investors and workers in the Canadian oil industry. Stop the flow, turn off the taps, become energy self-sufficient! The east and west coasts will be begging for pipelines to be built to heat their homes, power their transportation vehicles and for the shelves to be filled with all their plastic devises to buy and use.
Who will stand up and risae to the occasion??
Might have to be me!!
Glacierman – I’ve seen other commodities priced such that the price is set for a quantity to be delivered at a place specified in the contract. It’s usually either the port, or delivered to the next stage of processing. I haven’t (and won’t) looked into the details of these contracts, but the distance of rail would lead me to think that rail charges could easily account for a $40 difference per barrel. Especially when the volume to be supplied cannot be guaranteed. Uncertain supply and an expensive delivery system really hurt the contract price at the site of production!
This is not an argument for more refining in Canada. Putting more refineries in the Fort MacMurray or Edmonton areas is just as wasteful as mandating fast food burger joints on all ranchers’ properties. The amount of waste in both cases (caused because the final product starts to degrade the moment it’s refined or cooked to specifications) would be huge.
When we have our own refineries in Western Canada we can use the product ourselves, powering the development of our economy with a huge cost advantage.
When we have our own refineries in Western Canada we will be dumping and re-processing thousands of barrels of wasted products because the demand level in western Canada just isn’t enough for the amount of product produced.
If you want to use your own money to risk it, or the Great Canadian Pineapple Orchards, go for it. But it’s never just private money that’s discussed in these cases.
The industry is a price taker.
“Who did this and why are we continuing to sell our oil at this price? ”
Well, when you only have one customer and they say “we will only pay you $XXX” where else are you going to sell iT??
“Well, when you only have one customer and they say ‘we will only pay you $XXX’ where else are you going to sell it??”
In a nutshell.
Reminder to Albertan separatists: your province is landlocked.
Most of Alberta’s products are sold to the US and Alberta buys lots of American products so there wouldn’t be much trade change. Besides, at this point, the USA is a better friend, customer and ally to Alberta than the rest of Canada. Ottawa is just a really expensive ball and chain.
Other landlocked countries have made this work. Sharing a border with the biggest economy in the world is advantageous.
“Besides, at this point, the USA is a better friend, customer and ally to Alberta than the rest of Canada. Ottawa is just a really expensive ball and chain.”
Because you say so of course.
The US isn’t trying to kill the AL-Sask economy with taxes, regulations and pipeline politics. Keystone was approved by their president. Trudeau is 0 for 3 for pipelines- one killed by decree, one killed to satisfy Quebec and one killed by a crazy permitting process.
Or, from the other thread: How exactly does Canada benefit Alberta? I see more harm from being ruled by Ottawa than benefits.
Hopefully, it’ll soon be up to the people of Alberta to decide
“Hopefully, it’ll soon be up to the people of Alberta to decide…”
The people of Alberta voted for the NDP.
And also, you completely ignored the main thrust of Brian Lilley’s point: the need to get our oil out to other markets rather than exclusively the US.
“And also, you completely ignored the main thrust of Brian Lilley’s point: the need to get our oil out to other markets rather than exclusively the US.”
Canada is making that impossible. Going through the US is the only possibility. If the US is Alberta’s main oil shipping destination, then why do they need to put up with Ottawa’s abusive Liberal government. Alberta pays and pays but gets nothing but bullshit in return.
Shutting down the oil industry has been the Trudeau / Butts agenda from day one using anti-oil / pipeline regulation to strangle the industry.
Butts moved up the food chain from helping to wreck Ontario to wrecking Canada .
Trudeau (January 2017) … “We can’t shut down the oilsands tomorrow. We need to phase them out. We need to manage the transition off of our dependence on fossil fuels but it’s going to take time and in the meantime we have to manage that transition,”
If there was an honest media in Canada the current oil crisis , taxation , refugees and immigration was entirely predictable based on Trudeau’s platform prior to the election.
The media is not going to bite the hand that is (promising) to feed it. We can consider the Canadian media a wholly owned subsidiary of the Liberal party of Canada. There will only be unending ass kissing and ass covering for the Liberals.
Alberta separation is actually a good deal for the rest of Canada because once Alberta leaves, Canada instantly fulfills all if its Paris Accord committments. /s
Well said and so true. Their plan of destroying western Canada is coming true in one term.
Honest media, not in Canada any longer. They are nothing but shills for IQ80 and PM Butts.
I live in the middle of Ottawa and work for a private company but definitely benefit from that sucking sound of money coming from the rest of the country; and let me tell you the whoosh of much of it travelling further east is damn loud as well.
But the west is belly-aching to deafness. PM POS does not care, the LPoC does not care, the populations of the large eastern cities either do not care or are oblivious.
And ‘talk’ of separation is asinine.
STFU or have a plebiscite ASAP AND turn the taps off for the sake of your future.
Winter is here. The posties strike before Christmas, the teachers only strike when school is in so take a lesson from those two giant A-hole organizations and let the eastern bastards freeze.
And do you think you’ll get eastern sympathy? Oh no, you’ll get anger and threats.
The east does not care if you burn, if you’re impoverished, if there is drought.
It is either Independence or Servitude.
The east does not care if you burn, if you’re impoverished, if there is drought.
It is either Independence or Servitude.
The Quebec-Windsor Corridor has the attitude of “What’s mine is mine, what’s yours is negotiable.” I remember when Peter Lougheed and PET butted heads over the price of oil 40 years ago. It was all about Quebec expecting Alberta to simply hand over the oil for next to nothing because it believed that the oil belonged to it. PET, naturally, backed it. He saw western Canada as Quebec’s larder, a cornucopia which could be ransacked and pillaged at Quebec’s pleasure and only for Quebec’s benefit. An obedient, submissive, and “patriotic” Alberta would have gladly bent over and thought of Canada.
Prinz Dummkopf was likely brought up with the same attitude and he is jolly well going to make sure that he is going to finish what Daddy started.
“The east does not care if you burn…”
What “east”? There is no “east”.
Do you think Ontario, Québec and the Maritimes are some sort of monolithic bloc always in lockstep to oppress the poor little western provinces?
As I see it, BC is one of the biggest obstacles to pipeline progress and that province – last time I checked – is about as far west as you can go in Canada.
Do you think Ontario, Québec and the Maritimes are some sort of monolithic bloc always in lockstep to oppress the poor little western provinces?
I certainly do. Some 40 years ago, Peter Lougheed and PET battled each other over what Alberta charged for its oil. The east, particularly Quebec, the perennial spoiled brat of Canada, whined that it shouldn’t have to pay world-level prices. Something about oil being a national resource or some such poppycock.
Fishland wasn’t on Alberta’s side during that dispute, but, then, Fishland had been bought and paid for by the PET Liberals. The Maritimes are a place where federal investment capital goes to die. The AECL heavy water plant at Port Hawkesbury was a financial sinkhole. The Cape Breton coal mining industry was largely supported by federal money for years and we thought bailing out Bombardier was bad. Bricklin built its plant in New Brunswick and that was close to being a bunko operation.
But, no, Alberta was portrayed as being the bad guy.
Trudeau’s visit to Calgary was a victory photo op. “I’ve screwed the West, I know what’s best!”
I wonder if Jason has the balls to actually turn the taps off.
Actually, what should happen is that Alberta, Saskatchewan and Newfoundland should get together and shut off the oil at the same time. Maybe it’s time for Canada to wake up to the reality of what makes the economy tick.
Here’s a thought.
If AB, Sask and Nfld ( and unrealistically right now, BC) were to start collecting their own provincial income taxes, as QC does, things might change for the better, perhaps getting the attention of the CBC, with it’s “cross country panels” from Halifax to Toronto, and their drunken sailor patrons that are the fiscal federalistas currently waxing unaccountable.
Some say western separation isn’t in the cards. Yes, except western alienation is now being reinvigorated and reinforced.
People say economic collapse isn’t in the cards. Only today’s game folks.
Put those two ideas together, western alienation with being foisted with subsidizing Atlantic Canada, some natives and their corporate/media buddies, starved and bled concurrently, don’t be surprised to hear more talk of “let them freeze in the dark,” or its contemporary version, “let them pay their own medical and pension bills.” Supporters of Trudeau and the Grit elitists should be careful what they don’t wish for.
I will say it again, if we give this gender fixated pajama boy and his hopelessy corrupt cronies in his party, the media and the Laurentian elite, to play fiscal and resources games with the west, he will be last PM to preside over the country as it’s presently constituted, a federation with 10 provinces and 3 territories. How things are today’s got nothing to do with it.
“If AB, Sask and Nfld ( and unrealistically right now, BC) were to start collecting their own provincial income taxes, as QC does, things might change for the better…”
I have no idea exactly what you think you’re saying here. It matters not one bit whether the provinces do their own income tax collection or let Ottawa do it, provincial income taxes belong wholly to the provinces; Ottawa exerts zero control over them.
About the only thing to be gained by “repatriating” provincial income tax collection in the manner of Québec would be a) an end to whatever small administrative cost the provinces pay Ottawa to do the work and b) an increase in their provincial public services to do the collection themselves.
Oh, and you’d have to fill out two tax returns annually instead of one.
Have the provinces pass a law saying they’ll collect all the taxes and then remit some to Ottawa. So the provincial tax agency collects provincial and federal tax.
“Have the provinces pass a law saying they’ll collect all the taxes and then remit some to Ottawa. So the provincial tax agency collects provincial and federal tax.”
Does anyone here – anyone at all – proceed from the basis of fact when they plead their cause?
Just as the provinces have zero constitutional authority over Federal taxation, so the Federal government has zero constitutional authority over provincial taxation.
Stop being silly.
Just a reminder how Trudeau spent his summer vacation, while the Alberta oil industry was collapsing:
Trudeau Government Drops $43 Billion In Summer Spending Blitz Aimed Mostly At Liberal Ridings
https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/09/18/trudeau-government-spending-2018-summer_a_23527550/
Suncor is an integrated oil company. Why don’t they buy a refinery on the Gulf Coast and a retail chain in Texas? Petro America? Just pay to transport their own oil from Fort Mac to the Gulf Coast.
Trudeau the economy killer https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/gm-closing-all-operations-in-oshawa-ont-sources-1.4191935
Butts must be smiling, green mission accomplished. And we will have the Trudea Tax.
I’ve always thought that it was hypocritical of the ecofascists and the Trudeau-Butts Liberals (really the same thing, I know) to actively strive for the end of the West’s fossil fuel industry while simultaneously supporting an energy intensive manufacturing industry that uses huge amounts of fossil fuels to produce fossil fuel burning products (e.g. the Ontario’s auto sector and Quebec’s Bombardier). However, it’s obvious that the Trudeau-Butts Liberals are not really interested in Canada’s economic health – especially in the flyover West – and are only concerned with their narcissistic planet saving virtue signalling legacy and the maintenance of their Liberal fiefdoms. Right now I am the most pessimistic that I have ever been about Canada’s future.
So this must be GREAT NEWS! for all of Canada. Just like Venezuela that sits on vast oil reserves and sells it for next to nothing to their socialist subjects … so too, Canadians must be receiving CHEAP OIL from under Canada. Seriously! $17.00/barrel! Jackpot! What’s the market price? $60.00/barrel! Less than 1/3 market price! Your PM must be as benevolent as Maduro the Bus Driver and be selling Canadians CHEAP Socialist Oil!! Don’t worry … the Canadian dollar won’t sink as low as The Bolivar.
You worry about your 21 trillion dollar debt (about $65,000 for every American) and we’ll worry about our 900 billion dollar one (about $25,000 for every Canadian).
America’s debt is “the world’s debt”. America is “too big to fail” … for if we did … we’d take the entire world economy with us. If we fail, you fail. Sorry. I didn’t create this debt, but I’ve been paying for it my entire working life.
I get a real kick out our smugness over our debt level vrs the U. S. Let’s see they have Amazon , Apple , Google and on and on and on. We have Nortel, Bombarier , Ballard , 14 dollar oil.The government isn’t the source of wealth.
The sooner the rotten edifice collapses the better.
There are at least two things in life I do not understand – women, and the refinery business. You would think that building and operating a refinery is a sure fire way of making big bucks. But you may be wrong.
Exhibit A – the Turbo Refinery built near Calgary back in the 1980s.
New life for old oil refinery (March 2001)
Exhibit B – the Come By Chance refinery in Newfoundland.
Come By Chance (Sept 2012)
The story continues:
Come by Chance refinery up for sale, says business report (March 2017)
OK, so the refinery was a bad idea for Balzac. Lets build a shopping mall instead.
Calgary Newest Mall is a Ghost Town – New Horizons Mall! (Sept 2018)
One month later. (Oct 2018)
Oh well, we will always have pot.
In the next election we have to vote everyone of these would be socialist/dictators out and make it clear to whomever we vote in that they could be on the next election ‘get rid of list’ if they don’t pay attention to Canada’s needs.