A Toronto man who spent $550 building a set of stairs in his community park says he has no regrets, despite the city’s insistence that he should have waited for a $65,000 city project to handle the problem. The city is now threatening to tear down the stairs because they were not built to regulation standards.
“Conservative” Mayor John Tory…
Mayor John Tory acknowledged that the city estimate sounds “completely out of whack with reality” on Wednesday. However, he says that still doesn’t justify allowing private citizens to bypass city bylaws to build public structures themselves.
“I think everyone will understand that it will be more than $550,” he said on Wednesday. “We just can’t have people decide to go out to Home Depot and build a staircase in a park because that’s what they would like to have.”
He actually said that.
He actually said that.
Pay attention, conservative politicians who wish to be re-elected. This is what a conservative politician is supposed to say under such circumstances;
“The city will send an engineer to certify these stairs, and if they are determined to be sound, will compensate Mr. Astl for his materials and time.
After which, I’ll be launching an internal investigation into how this small building project came to generate a $65,000 estimate, and terminate the employment and/or contracts of those responsible for the fiasco.”
You’re welcome.
“However, he says that still doesn’t justify allowing private citizens to bypass city bylaws to build public structures themselves.”
They would ban snowmen and sand castles if they could get away with it. Give them time.
they’re worried this may set a precedent instead of letting it go with a *reminder* to comply with bldg codes and permits.
‘follow the money’ doesnt happen in lieberaland.
Trump is having a hard time draining the swamp and he has the benefit of parachuting in hundreds of his people. Conservatives who run as conservatives and then drop the ball when elected are disgusting lowlife creatures. I suspect it has a lot to do with not going to war with the civil service when maybe that is what’s needed.
Looks like the mayor will have to dig up his $6,500.00 in boat payments from some other scam.
p.s., does the ‘estimate’ include cost overruns?
I think we discovered quite some time ago that so-called conservative Mayor John Tory is actually a part of the swamp, and a progressive conservative with heavy emphasis on progressive.
Dumber than a bag of hammers might also be an appropriate descriptor for him.
“Dumber than a bag of hammers”
He’s no Rob Ford
Kate, Stupid has so much become the new normal that the average person has lost the ability to recognize it when they see it. The time and effort spent on rationalizing stupid outweighs the effort it takes to practice common sense by about the same ratio reported in this story–130:1.
The mayor may have Tory in his name but so much in his brain/heart. CINO.
Process driven organizations will ALWAYS vie for the least effective most expensive solutions because instead of focused logical simple approaches they are busy checking off every box and meeting every requirement no matter how ridiculous. Too busy making work to do much good.
Chip, you’ve obviously never seen the carnage that can result from an unauthorized snowman or sand castle collapse.
Steve has a point: the poll at the bottom of the CTV article has 65% saying “no don’t tear down the steps”.
That means THIRTY FIVE G*DD*MMED PERCENT aren’t even willing to leave the cheap and good stairs in place. Even in an “extreme” case like this 2/3 CTV readers side with big government.
Oh by the way the $65000 estimate is the lowball one: it might go as high as $150,000. So forget the $65k figure. Hell forget the $150k figure. A short set of stairs and gov’t can’t even narrow the estimate down to a $70,000 RANGE.
Meh, I built better stairs for my tree house when I was 8.
While I applaud the effort to bypass city hall BS those stairs would never meet code.
There is no contract a construction company loves more than a government contract,and the big reason is that government employees and especially managers have NO basis in reality for any of their bids.
Tell a government employee it will take six weeks and cost 30,000 bucks for a 8 X 8 garden shed and they’ll nod and go “yep,seems reasonable”,having never so much as driven a nail in their entire lives.
The municipality will most assuredly tear down those stairs,and they will claim “public safety” as their excuse. A year from now,the low bidder at 65k will commence work and end up charging twice that price by the time he’s finished due to “cost overruns”.
In the meantime,the citizens who use the path are screwed.
This same type of thing occurred in Toronto a few years back,and again,the stairs were torn out as a public safety measure.
Lest we forget…
http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/pothole-vigilante-of-saint-john-n-b-ordered-to-unfix-the-road-craters-he-fixed/wcm/6c4b38de-f30a-42c6-a523-8ecfb0d18314
John Tory a Conservative?! Maybe in the same way Kim Philby was a member of the Order of the Empire.
65,000 sounds about right for 8 stairs considering it costs TDSB 3,000 to fix a pencil sharpener
I almost cried when the Sue Ann Levy reported that $20k of the $65k projected cost would be for project management. People, this is an 8 step staircase.
Kate: “Pay attention, conservative politicians who wish to be re-elected. This is what a conservative politician is supposed to say under such circumstances; “The city will send an engineer to certify these stairs, and if they are determined to be sound, will compensate Mr. Astl for his materials and time…””
Matthew Cutler, spokesperson for Toronto Parks, Forestry and Recreation: “On our inspection of these stairs, there are issues. They are not built into the ground so they have no foundation to hold them still. The railing is wobbly. There are screws protruding.”
Kate: “”…After which, I’ll be launching an internal investigation into how this small building project came to generate a $65,000 estimate, and terminate the employment and/or contracts of those responsible for the fiasco.””
Mayor Tory: City estimates for the steps are “completely out of whack with reality. We’re going back to the drawing board on this to get a proper estimate. I think everybody will understand it’s going to be more than $550…”
You could build a concrete and marble staircase for far less than $65K!
Hell; pay me $50K and I’ll drive out there with my tools, pay my own expenses, and have it done in 10 days.
Riddle me this; if the City is using its own resources, how’d they get to $65K?
If not, why not? We’re not talking about something that a competent carpenter and helper can’t complete in a couple of days, if it’s pressure treated wood construction.
I sent this article to a friend that is an Infrastructure Project Manager working for a large Canadian city. He made some points that can maybe justify a good portion of the 65k estimate that is the fault of the taxpayers.
To Paraphrase:
“It’s not the material and labour… If you try to do anything cheap/efficient taxpayers lose their minds because you didn’t ask their opinion. They tell you you’re terrible and they can do it better. Therefore you have to spend 8 months consulting the public for something as minor as a set of stairs. Then after the 8 months of consultation the stairs get built for 10% of the total cost while 90% of the spending was paying bureaucrats to listen to everyone’s 2 cents only to come up with the very obvious simple solution in the first place. 90% of my job is listening to the public whine about traffic and parking vs anything productive and my salary is not cheap.”
I think its a good point that the NIMBY public is also part of the issue in the inflated costs.
Also those stairs were built beyond terrible and looking at the actual material used. I’m not seeing how it actually added up to $550 unless he paid the homeless helper $400.
I admire the spirit behind this, but remember any one of these citizens is capable of slipping, falling and suing the city.
And no, that’s not because lawyers are wicked, it’s because humans are greedy.
Here is my interpretation of the poll.
7% say tear down the steps now. This is all municipal and government workers and lawyers saying OMG! Liability!
27%. Saying after the city replaces them. These are “reasonable people” that still believe in the Government.
66%. They are stairs, not the Eiffel Tower. When would the city actually install any stairs? 2020? Never?
My opinion? His friend hurt herself on that stair less slope. Now the city will have to accept, rebuild, or replace the stairs. Mission Accomplished! No more injured friends. He did it for less than the cost of an emergency room visit. The city is going to waste the money anyway. If not on these stairs, on the next stairway, walking path, or park bench.
Heh… our local parks people had to replace a rusting kids’ playground slide. Instead of simply putting the new one in the same spot, already landscaped with crusher dust, the bureaucrats decided to move it to a new location on a small hillside maybe 50 yards away (absolutely NO idea why!).
The new location required a winding landscape stairway to access it, and a completely redone hillside.
The Parks workers warned that it was a really bad siting but did the bureaucrats listen? Nope. Now three years later, the little rugrats have denuded all the planted landscaping and the bark mulch is in a heap at the bottom of the hill.
Literally THOUSANDS have been spent on this fiasco, most of it trying to make a bad idea work.
As I write this contractors for my Regional District are installing a ‘gate’ at the access trail to the Regional Park across from my house.
I’ve contacted them countless times about the dirt bikes tearing up the trails and recommended a ‘zig-zag’ access as is common in many ‘pedestrians only’ parks.
The new ‘gate’ will have a three foot wide opening which means it’s exactly as good as no gate at all in solving the problem. The contractor suggested it might prevent ATV’s from accessing the park… never mind that ATV’s have never done so.
‘Consulting with those affected’ has somehow never made it into their service manual.
They’re tearing them down.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/city-of-toronto-to-tear-down-550-park-stairs-says-man-who-built-them-1.3512364?hootPostID=b25f1a12f485670de78cdc0371c98f1b
There are no conservative politicians in Canada. They’re all useless cucks. Alt-right, baby. Screw the left and the cucks. Reclaim your heritage.
Other arguments aside, it should be a ramp, not stairs; this is a PARK. A lot of folks, especially seniors, have difficulty with stairs, especially in Winter.
They must be budgeting in that $1,100 hammer from NASA.
They must be budgeting in that $1,100 hammer from NASA.
They must be budgeting in that $1,100 hammer from NASA.
Going to WAR with Public Servants..??
..ABOUT bloody TIME..!!
If they struck…it would not bother me in the slightest…and I would welcome their being not only to get stuffed, but completely DE – CERTIFIED.
Public servants are the reason we have such a high level of Socialism and outright Marxism in this country. Aren’t “unions” a Marxist construct..??
How many seniors would be using it in summer let alone in winter? The city didn’t build it it it might be difficult to sue. All that’s needed is a big sign use at your own risk, built by handymen.
So the city runs the people not the other way around.. $100,000 a year “leaf-rakers”.. Tell the city workers to GFT.. Tory as well..Don’t let those overpaid slugs near those stairs.. Fire the lot of them.. We are such cowards us Canadians.. We won’t stick up for what is right..
As a retired builder I would have to say that those steps are esthetically funky and not very practical over the long haul.
I vote to replace them as they are not sound. Too much cantilevered tread running past the stringers and that foot tripping box at the base…well the whole thing is a recipe for a law suit well over 65 thousand.
If they want to hire me, I’ll do the job for say 50 grand and pay my own expenses from BC.
The city saves a bundle and I make good enough coin to winter somewhere where I don’t have to worry about getting blown up or my head chopped off.
Oh. and the city gets a set of certified stairs long before the next snow flies.
Good luck with that !!
I would rather walk up a flight of stairs than negotiate a ramp in the winter…any day of the week – snow melts right…? and on a ramp its likely to freeze in place…great, now we have “Smashed Ice Scenario with seniors suing the city….
john is a good god kristian , give him a break.
TANKER is right about no con politicians in Canada, there are only politicians, and that is the problem
ignore my stutter…
Life follows Art dept:
‘Stairway to Heaven’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXSxSXKQCl8
(Ooh, it makes me wonder)
stairs are 3D
$65k is reasonable for building a robust set of stairs for john q public – as approaches, maintenance and access to facilities form part of the equation.
Civic works have different parameters than non-permitted works/a circumspect Canadian tradition.
At the very least, real people will do real work with real stairs.
Might learn a thinger2.
Most local government issues are actually inherently nonpartisan and only become so due to media attention or party-driven Councils. A city the size of Toronto has a governance structure more resembling a parliament than a council (legacy of amalgamations) and the only reason a Mayor would involve himself in this kind of issue is from media hype. Small towns could get away with this kind of voluntarism because they can usually hide from scum-sucking lawyers but the big cities can’t. Fortunately, it brought the issue of fiscal negligence to Tory’s attention. The public works bureaucracy responsible for a $65000 budget for a $5000 (all-in long-life concrete or steel) structure certainly needs attention. That wooden structure was pretty haphazard and wouldn’t last very long.
The calgary city council is cogitating over an Olympic bid. Someone suggested that the matter be put to a referendum.
Councillor Farrell said the matter was far to complex for voters to comprehend.
Yeah, those stupid voters who have to foot the bill.
Was CSA involved with certification in any way? That would easily explain the 20K
So we have people defending a private citizen building a structure sans permits, likely without certified skills, on public land. What if he had rigged some electrical lighting from a nearby light pole? Would you be defending that? Or how about if had put some grotesque progressive sculpture in the middle of a playground. The guy should be fined for damaging public property.
The cost of the city built option is irrelevant- surely readers understand that.
A real conservative politician would have done nothing like what Kate prescribes – he/she would have condemned such a reckless act.
Using a simple entry (Bloor St W and Aberfoyle) on Google Maps reveals a far more interesting view of the Tom Riley Park gardening allotments and surroundings thereof. There is the parking lot on the corner complete with a safe level concrete sidewalk into the park a short distance to the east. The site of the cobbled together stairs is on a dangerous steep shortcut for the old, lazy, and inept, a really bad combination. A new permanent installation there would obviously require very costly handicap access via a long ramp to meet the city’s own rules. The correct action would be the installation of a chain link fence along the north edge of the parking lot to block the foolish from their folly at a considerable saving to the taxpayers.
Reminding these rent seekers that their exclusive use of public parkland hangs by a thread if they are feeling feisty and want some action could not hurt either.
memo to all……….there are no conservatives in Canada.
So if I decided to build an outhouse on the sidewalk in front of your house you would be perfectly okay with that that there should be no consequences – no penalty- for such action. Good to know.
Our Landowner groups had several meetings with Tory & Co. when he has Ontario PC Leader on matters relating to intrusive legislation and property rights. It was immediately apparent that he didn’t have a conservative bone in his body, and, he really didn’t like being around people who did.
He deserves Toronto – Toronto deserves him.
actually, the $1000 NASA hammers and $5000 toilet seats were the CIA’s way of hiding their budget (kinda clever). it may still be in google land.
It is the same thing – if you allow one you have to allow the other – that’s the point.
The cost of the stairs is not relevant to the issue at hand which is should private citizens be able to do things to public property without permits or any other form of permission or vetting.
And 65000 May Actually be reasonable depending on what is being proposed – it is concrete? Will it have a wheelchair ramp? What are the regs regarding railings and landings? Will it have to be engineered?