The military needs to curb-stomp these members. Drunk, young, Twitter generation, whatever, the lessons apparently need to be taught again that you don’t have the same rights as civilians when you enlist.
You are not allowed to be political when in the military and for damned good reasons. You have the right of your anonymous vote to voice your politics.
Edit: Because I actually was in the military, and I actually read the QR&Os I’ll provide a link to one of the relevant orders.
Section 2 – Dealings with Public, Civil Employment and Political Activities
19.36 – DISCLOSURE OF INFORMATION OR OPINION
(1) For the purposes of this article, the adjective “military” shall be construed as relating not only to the Canadian Forces but also to the armed forces of any country.
(2) Subject to article 19.375 (Communications to News Agencies), no officer or non-commissioned member shall without permission obtained under article 19.37 (Permission to Communicate Information):
(…)
j. publish in writing or deliver any lecture, address or broadcast in any dealing with a subject of a controversial nature affecting other departments of the public service or pertaining to public policy.
Is that still valid in a post-national Canada? I thought we celebrated diversity? That diversity was our strength. What law did these men break? Would it have been OK if they wore black hoodies and bandannas and yelling scathing insults? I don’t think Canadian law supports limiting your rights just because you serve. What a brave new world to have such people in it.
The defence minister is personally apologizing to a group that held a “decolonization” ceremony with an upside down Canadian flag.
Come on Canada, we can do better. They deserve at least $10 million.
I think these men are entitled to voice their political opinions – the National Defense Act agrees.
OTOH they showed disrespect for the uniform and disloyalty to their fellow members, embarrassing them with their petulant display.
Did these loudmouths think they could have remained anonymous, that their conduct wouldn’t have reflected generally on the military?
I doubt they have to apologize for their vulgar display; nor should the CF, it did out of integrity; but these men exhibited poor judgment.
IOW, in old school military lexicon – seen. Perhaps their mess buddies will help straighten them out. I’ve been out for 20 years so can only hope.
What did think the military brass was going to think of this. They put it out there, now they can pay the consequences.
Military charges? Not so sure. A nice long one-sided chat with their CWO (assuming they’re not officers, I hope)? Yes, that would be OK with me.
They should be executed for this video they made : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXpffMXUcAg . These goofs are a bunch of beta males.
Please point out the part of the Constitution that says it doesn’t apply to sailors. I don’t recall that part. Or does it just apply the trannies in need of castration?
So we have a few young guys apparently not in uniform who have probably had a few too many drinks. They see the flag that they swear allegiance too being desecrated by a group of professional victims. Lets not forget that under some circumstances they may give their life in defense of the country represented by that same flag. I am glad that I was not present during this overblown fiasco, because I know what side I would be on. As for this Minister of National Defense, why the rush to apologize before conducting appropriate interviews and getting all the facts from both sides.
“You are not allowed to be political when in the military and for damned good reasons.”
Cool beans. You just head on over to Army.ca and tell all those anonymous officers posting there that. There’s a few there that believe that just a bit more socialism would help make Canada a better place, plus many more that freely give their political opinions on other topics. But I guess this situation is different since it offends the good Lance, so physical violence is called for, right?
They weren’t in uniform and no laws were broken. Pound sand, Lance.
My kids are in the York Region District School Board. The YRDSB seems to have a policy now of opening every student gathering — from common assemblies to graduation ceremonies — with an acknowledgement of our local Native communities and an apology for the atrocities perpetrated against them by European conquerors.
I’m a little tired of being called a genocidal conqueror at my kids’ concerts and plays.
To paraphrase lance:
The public needs to curb-stomp these activists. Power drunk, entitled, golden pension blessed, and totally unaccountable, the lesson apparently needs to be taught again that you don’t have the right as government employees to politicise public institutions.
You are not allowed to be political when running the schools and for damned good reasons. You have the right of your anonymous vote to voice your politics.
I disagree with with these Proud Boy loudmouths may have done. But I understand why they are frustrated.
Yes let’s castrate a bunch of proud young men who dare to serve our country and say out loud, “God save the Queen.” Can’t have that in Canada any more, no sir. We must all prostrate ourselves before the Indigenous. Of course this took place in Halifax, where the school board just decreed that every school day in every school throughout the city will now open with an announcement that the school rests on traditional Mik’Maq land.
(They’re gonna get Cornwallis expunged from the history books down here before too much longer, you know. They’ve been after him for a while now, it’s no mistake this protest took place there.)
These are the kind of things that lead to the rise of a Trump figure. If such a thing is possible here. I tend to doubt it.
Weren’t these guys simply saying: “You don’t speak for me”?
Soooo….Curb stomp a bunch of young men who quietly and without aggression ask questions of people who are desecrating the flag they’ve sworn their lives to defend.
Good idea. Let’s jump on the victim train and prostrate ourselves in hopes that this terrible atrocity will be forgiven.
Gimme a fk’n break. This self-hate makes me sick. That it’s permeated every level of society, including every level level of military leadership is why I quit the CAF after 17 years.
Clearly Lance never wore the uniform a day in his life.
I disagree with their motive for confronting the ones performing the ceremony and I sure as shyt disagree with the ACT of disrupting the ceremony.
it is NOT ok to use leftist interruption tactics. so anyone disagreeing with lance can swallow my doggy’s next ‘landmine’.
nudge . . .
WTF Lance? I hope you’re being sarcastic.
These Canadians epitomized the Canadian version of ‘polite’ protest. They were polite, non-antagonizing when provoked and stood up for a Canada that I’d like to see more Canadians standing up for.
If anything, the higher ups are getting involved in politics by calling this deplorable. It’s the brass who are behaving shamefully by not defending the rights of their men.
ENOUGH PC PANDERING!
Since when did Kate let a Cultural Marxist fox in the SDA henhouse?
The objective of all that cultural self-hate crap is to destroy Western civilization. I did not expect it to have a voice here.
God Save Indian Head
Yeah, Land ‘o the Double Standard, now No Standards.
These native folks keep listening to those soft words of “the White Man stole our land”. Useful idiots. Push comes to shove they’ll end up dealing with the originals (from India) & their ancestors (the Chinese or Asians in general), plus a bunch of folks that don’t adhere to any “spirit of the land” mumbo jumbo (jihadis), ’cause Whitey will cease to exist as an entity here, or become a minority the way this country is evolving. Those Pur Laine in Quebec should be looking over their shoulders as well, ’cause they aren’t reproducing enough to keep the wolves from the door, either. Sold out by their own .gov
These young men were doing more to defend this country from enemies within, than some of our other .gov already entrusted to defend this country do, or will ever do in my POV. But then, according to our current PM, Canada isn’t a country.
Confusion reigns. Why am I paying taxes to Canada, then?
Maybe these MicMacs should just go home. They can take Rance and the other riffraff that thinks like Rance with them. I’ll even chip in some $$$$$ for a fairy across the straight. About time the Indians understand that to keep dragging up the past just to extract more $$$$$ is wearing a little thin.
Having watched the video, I find nothing that embarrasses anyone except the sissies who kowtow to political correctness even in their spare time. When you don the uniform, you follow the rules, when you are not wearing it, you are a citizen, who is allowed to say what you believe in, anyone who believes differently, prefers a more totalitarian society apparently. . They were civil, quiet, and behaved like every other person at that rally. They conducted themselves quite well, for someone witnessing a desecration of the flag.
“They conducted themselves quite well, for someone witnessing a desecration of the flag.”
So is the military going to start teaching soldiers to crap on the flag instead of saluting it? They teach guys to revere the flag and shit on them when they act on it.
Tough one.
Lance is correct as is his citing of Queen’s Regulations & Orders.
I recall being lectured in basic training in the early ’60s about suspending political activities, of any sort (with the exception of voting in a federal, provincial or municipal election).
These young sailors should have their pee pee’s smacked, at the least. Sadly, noble intentions don’t matter nor does ignorance of the Regs.
The Minister of Defence should have kept his mouth shut. This apologizing to every crank or group of cranks on the streets must stop.
Good Going Proud Boys. Stand up to antifa where ever you find them. And “Grizzly Mama”..lol.. I think that name was slurped fully grown from a bottle of cheap red wine..Libs…. Good Lord!
you know sure as shit that if it were military members with a rainbow flag or “warriors” society flag yelling “I hate Trump” not a single word would have been said; what these guys did MAY have been against regs but the real story is the incredible hypocrisy and double standards
Exacery!
This is political pure and simple. It’s a non-story made into something by leftist media.
Military = bad. Indian activism = good; even after a CBC received an ill-conceived dressing down by a racist, sexist activist.
If we’re going to cite regulations could you please direct us to the section of QR & O’s that refers to members as being “enlisted”? I see this term online all the time and usually from people who purport themselves as being either serving or retired CF members. I get curious as to why. During my 34+ years of service, I can’t recall ever hearing anyone in the CF use the term “enlist”…..ever. It’s just not a word common to the Canadian Military lexicon so why would anyone say it?
Using improper terminology when presenting an argument from authority, doesn’t usually strengthen your case. With due respect to our American comrades, we simply have no “enlisted” personnel in our ranks.
When I served, and was posted in Kingston Ontario, there was a protest known as the Kingston flag burnings. As part of the base defense force we stood there and watched little snot nosed SJW’s spout off about every grievance known to man and how it was our fault. Even had one woman screaming point blank in our face of how we were all baby killers. I believe it was the Legion hall that printed up t-shirts with a Canada flag and simply said “Just try and burn this one!” I can’t think of anyone in my troop that didn’t have one, and we wore it everywhere. Would that be considered inciting violence or racist now?
Lance, one can appreciate your experiences and what the guidelines say but as of now, one is dealing with the status quo. Perhaps the officers and cadets should not have engaged the aforementioned wankers. But they did and now they are forced to apologise for it. THIS is what most people find intolerable: arrogant racist activists denouncing the very country that gave them succour and that the armed forces personnel defend. After this, I expect that the Idle Forever and Ever crowd will demand apologies of the non-aboriginal crowd simply for living.
Item “j” cited seems to refer to formal communications whereas these sailors seemed to be engaged in casual conversation with members of the (SCOC’s) master race. Realizing that the master race cannot be criticized in polite society and that pc politicians from all parties as well as the ranks of the Officers Corps get extra virtue signalling votes, pips, stars and stripes for coming down on all perceived violations of such, doesn’t actually make their actions worthy of the Spanish Inquisition. Surely their Chief can give them a little extra duty with a wink and nod.
… and here in America … High School Students are NOT ALLOWED to wear, or display, the American Flag on … “cinco de Mayo”. The leftist school administrators claim that it is a “violent and offensive” action on the day of Mexican “celebration”. Sick. Sick in the head.
I would like to see them get a court marshal, a good lawyer, and open it to the public to witness.
This is exactly why I would never enlist or take on the Canadian uniform. You are basically putting your life on hold to take chit off First Nation freeloaders and goofs like Lance that pander to them. If you get killed on the job, some liberal fairy will want to pay the cretin that killed you with tax payer money.
I’m with that fella above. Go pound sand, Lance. Use your face.
Hey – at least they didn’t take out top-secret papers and email them to the media…
“Proud Boys”? I prefer to see proud men in the Canadian Forces.
“I disagree with their motive for confronting the ones performing the ceremony and I sure as shyt disagree with the ACT of disrupting the ceremony.”
Look, a self hating Canadian.
“it is NOT ok to use leftist interruption tactics.”
In case you haven’t noticed, that horse left the barn long ago, so GFY.
I see a bigger issue here. Almost all of the media refers to this as an “indigenous ceremony” although it appears to be a protest. Notice how natives have transformed their protests into ceremonies making themselves immune to any counter-protest or forcible removal. Note that the teepee erected on Parliament Hill for Canada Day is referred to as a ceremonial teepee.
I just watched the video too. Good grief, I hope rear admiral (heh) milquetoast is never called upon to defend anything of consequence.
So then if those in uniform, CF and RCMP are to not engage in political or religious statements, then perhaps said CF and RCMP members who wear a turban or hijab should cease doing so, and dress uniformly with the rest of their co workers.
And I’m pretty sue that if micmaks are using a teepee it’s cultural appropriation since stone age micmaks never used teepees.
In light of that QR&O section I’m really not comfortable hearing the High Brass express the contrary political opinion there; they’d be on more solid ground if they stayed neutral on the underlying politics and left that to the politicians, even given they probably do have clearance and sync from the latter.
And if they’re disavowing Cornwallis and all his questionable deeds and they’re sincere, they have to clean up all the land currently occupied by CFB Halifax and give it back to the Mik’maq. Air power has ruled the waves since the Battle of Taranto anyway, and steel hulls are just what aviators use to keep score.
“you know sure as shit that if it were military members with a rainbow flag or “warriors” society flag yelling “I hate Trump” not a single word would have been said; what these guys did MAY have been against regs but the real story is the incredible hypocrisy and double standards” Exactly! Or if they were advocating for some other cultural Marxist crap.
So many great comments above. Milquetoast rear admiral is right. I.M. is right, the filthy Marxists will not rest until any mention of Cornwallis is gone. The Dorchester Review had quite a lengthy article about this effort to get rid of Cornwallis.
TimR, exactly.
Our military is going the same way our educational system has gone. Jordan Peterson, the Rebel and a few others, are a few voices crying out the warning in the coming Marxist utopia.
https://www.therebel.media/save-the-five
But attending, in uniform, the Toronto Pride Parade isn’t a public political statement?
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yccyapv4
That double standard looks just fabulous!
Considering how the federal government spat in the face of this country’s military with that cheque for little Omar, why should this incident be so shocking?
This should be repeated.
Show your support for these boys at the link below if you believe their message was more important than the protocol and pending judgment.
https://www.therebel.media/save-the-five
CANADA…
…the only country that regularly SHITS where it eats…Quick to condemn
…even quicker to prostrate ourselves for the inevitable flogging…while we smile and preach Diversity….
This country is beginning to Stink…
…I served as well…but it was in a time when we ALL looked out for our buddies – now, seems anyone will throw anyone else under the bus for the slightest thing…..F’kng Disgusting.
I honor / honour the lads’ patriotism, and the demonstrators were being disloyal jerks, but still, orders are orders.
A good dressing-down should suffice; they are good young men. God bless Canada and the fine young people in the military.
That double standard looks just fabulous!
You’re a sick bastard … and I want to be just like you. Faaa-bbb-you-lllusss !!
Exactly, TimR.
These idiots should be drummed out for gross stupidity in the face of the enemy. The idiots were doomed as soon as Big Mama Grizzly (I’m sure, cause you know Nova Scotia and Grizzly Bears…) and the Marxist circus talked to their enviro-wanker PR flack who arranged the media interviews.
Stupid idiot kids.
One lousy media story and +of course+ the politicians in the brass and their politician leaders are going to make hay out of it. The first to show, “We’re really progressive! Honest, No Fear Us!” and the latter to say, “We put those stupid grunts in their place!”
Stupid idiot kids.
Now what have we got; oh the Rebel is gonna make it all more political and Warren K. is twittering up a storm to meet the Rebel on the field. Next thing you know these kids will be doing time in Club Ed because it’s staining the white socks of Trudeau.
Stupid idiot kids.
The whole irony of it? The idiots disobeyed a Queens Order. They disrespected the very thing they thought they were protecting.
Yeah. They were doomed from the start as soon as the military apology wagon got rolling. Don’t worry though, I’m sure you’ll get your fantasy curb-stomping of these traitors for such an appalling breach of protocol. Hey were you this angry when Sajjan nicked a little valour or is this just a pet gripe because you see them as peers or insubordinates rather than superiors?
Meanwhile, check out the first 10 or so minutes of Power & Politics today featuring Gavin McInnes. Finally a real interview on that show with someone who fights back a little.
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/984214083998
“You are not allowed to be political when in the military and for damned good reasons. You have the right of your anonymous vote to voice your politics.”
I understand what you understand, lance. You are correct. There is always a but, though.
My ‘but’ is this: Our military tried members of the Nazi German military for crimes against humanity at Nuremburg.
The soldier’s defence at the Nuremburg trials was consistently, “But we were only following orders.”
This was a claim to being non-political(chain of command) and being non-political is indistinguishable from amorality.
Humans are political animals. Politics is the Art of Getting What You Want.
I know you were in the Navy. I imagine that you experienced a lot of slack time in between working very hard. What soldier/sailor doesn’t gripe?
What is griping if not expressing what you would rather the circumstances be. Is that not political?
In WWI their were non-commissioned adjutants on the Commonwealth side who were appointed to shoot soldiers who advanced either too slow (or even incredibly), too fast when the whistle blew and it was time to rise as one and attack the German lines. Many of the soldiers were conscripts. How immoral was that?
That was the last major war when common Canadians had no vote.
Since that time, simply following orders is an unacceptable position and by clear implication so is being apolitical.
Where you, lance, are clearly correct is that if it is acceptable for acting members of a nation’s armed forces to be publically political, the possibility that they can and will act to overthrow civilian control or shrug oversight increases to an unacceptable level in a Liberal Democracy if they are political agitators who form political associations.
You write very well, lance, and your opinions have the right instinct. We live in very difficult times.
I have probably been overly critical of you when I comment at times. For that I apologize.