By 2030, half of Saskatchewan’s power will come from renewable sources, with wind, solar and geothermal energy all thrown into the mix.
You just know this is going to be a financial disaster with lots of money going in and out. Current coal power supply, 1530MW.
Wind is less dense than water so the land requirements are even greater. Contemporary 50-story windmills generate 1- 1/2 MW apiece, so it takes 660 windmills to get 1000 MW. They must be spaced about half a mile apart so a 1000-MW wind farm occupies 125 square miles. Unfortunately the best windmills generate electricity only 30 percent of the time, so 1000 MW really means covering 375 square miles at widely dispersed locations.
Course, there is an election coming in April, so maybe this is just another way to take a wedge issue away from the NDP.
What part about zero power production when the wind isn’t blowing don’t they get? Wind power needs full backup and the biggest cost in power production is building facilities. Seriously, what kind of retards are engineering schools producing today?
Nothing but miles and miles in Sask, right??
Fact is, subsidies, high cap costs, depreciation, nada for “profit” will result, benefits to “farm” developers and firms, plus “perception” are the facts.
Nuclear, added hydro, North Sask, would be best, but greenies etc shut these down, but, favor eyesores, bird choppers, and intermittent power sources.
Best invest in private gas fired generation, before outlawed, set up trust fund for pensioners, etc, because, power failures and bumps, plus high costs are almost a “sure thing”.
Sad but true. Such promise, such lemming like adherence to “green mantra”. At all costs and ultimate consequences be damned.
Oh well, anyone for John Galt?? Just saying.
Don’t go throwing math at them, they’ll get confused. Besides, math is just right wing propaganda.
Build those windmill towers where the most power is needed, build them all around Regina and Saskatoon. That way they can look to the horizon and feel proud for saving the earth, also when they look up and see they’re not turning, they’ll know they have to stop by Wal-Mart to pick up an extra blanket for the evening.
Yeah, sure, it’s just taking a wedge issue away from the NDP.
The only downside is it might just suppress right wing turnout because voters
see less distinguishing issues between the Left and Right.
Is Wall and the Saskatchewan Party looking more and more like the NDP?
Why yes, yes they are, no need to ask.
Lets not forget that the food preparation contract was taken away from the non-religious aligned company that was supplying meals to Saskatchewan hospitals by Wall and given to a new Muslim company, which hires only Muslims and which put all of the former company’s staff out of work.
Maybe the windmills would work better if large coal-fired plants were built next to them and had large fans powered to blow air at the windmills. That way the periods when the windmills were not producing power would be eliminated.
There may be some efficiency and CO2 issues that arise from this brilliant plan, but given that (a) efficiency has not been the hallmark of any federal Liberal government and (b) the Chretien policy in relation to Kyoto was to sign on for large commitments and then fulfill none of them, we may be safe.
There are some misconceptions in his math and general description of contemporary industrial wind turbines. The best wind turbines do not generate electricity 30% of the time, that is a dream world a lot of these people seem to inhabit. They generate zero when there is no wind, a fact that has been observed in Ont. for the entire fleet of turbines.
The towers are not 1/2 mile apart, observing any of the wind plants in Huron-Bruce demonstrate they are grouped much closer.
and of course, being in Ont only 550m from houses.
2030 is only 15 years away, to think half of a province’s energy supply will come from “renewables” is fantasy akin to the Leap Manifesto plans to do way with all carbon fuels in the same time frame.
Although it seems like a (bad) dream, look at current energy sources in Saskatchewan.
36% coal
21% hydro
37% natural gas
Why don’t they use their fracking brains and use the natural gas and fade out those subsidy driven “green” crap?
Pretty smooth putting up five story windmills on a major migratory bird route. And lets not forget all those Snowbirds and student pilots out there.
the environuts will destroy Canada to the point where it will all be national parks and everyone will be on welfare, then the fun will begin
Here’s a question from a West Coaster…… as I recall, Saskatchewan has long been a significant source of uranium mined in North America. Would building a nuclear facility and using some of that cause political squawks across the province. If I’m not mistaken, France derives most of its power from nuclear and successive socialist and Gaullist governments have preferred it to all other power sources, arguing it is safer, cheaper, greener, etc.
Yes, if implemented, it would be an absolute cluster, just like anywhere else. So called “renewable” energy is simply a war on the poor. None work. It is just an excuse to con money from governments.
Stick with the coal, Saskatchewan. CO2 and warmth (not that they are related) are bothg good for Northern agriculture.
I think you will find that 5% number for wind is installed capacity, not actual generation.
Any mention of nuclear will cause deafening squawks across the province. Much like the squawking over privatization of liquor stores (in a very limited fashion), closing down nursing homes (didn’t happen and was never in the plans) and private MRI’s (also limited and with restrictions). It doesn’t really matter what the Sask Party proposes, no matter how benign, the NDP and their backward followers will wail and gnash their teeth ceaselessly.
Robert:
Yes you are correct, but green fanatics could save billions and move onto another problem of the century, by simply declaring nuclear a renewable source. Clean, green,efficient, expensive to be sure, but the technology actually works, and more than 30% of the time.
Robert @ 6:42
Yes, the favourite line of the greentards is ‘generating capacity’. They NEVER cite actual generation. In fact actual generation is only a small fraction of capacity. And in each instance, wind farms require stable back-up generation to have any effectiveness. The whole CO2-is-a-scourge thing is an expensive boondoggle.
Geothermal???
Why is that even mentioned? Are there any geothermal energy sources anywhere in Sask? And how much would it cost to implement a geothermal generating station of any capacity.
Foothills Red is right; all of those are better alternatives. However, with nuclear there’s a problem. Saskatchewan is a grid of only 1500 MW. A CANDU 6 reactor is 700 MW. That poses significant problems for the grid when the unit goes out for maintenance. Saskatchewan’s problem is that the province is mostly too small for a nuclear reactor at this time, particularly as the province has relatively poor interconnections, east-west or south.
There are solutions to this but they are neither easy nor simple.
Small modular reactors are a definite possibility for the future, but right now they only exist as concepts.
The 30% capacity factor for wind is a considerable overstatement in practice. Ontario’s wind fleet gets little more than 20% on average, and as noted above, its production is extremely lumpy.
The comments above regarding capacity vs. energy are dead accurate. In reality, Saskatchewan gets more than 2/3rds of its electricity from three stations, Shand, Poplar River and Boundary Dam.
Sorry, a not so minor error on my part. Saskatchewan’s peak grid demand is about 3000 MW. Not that it matters. One generating unit is still too big if its well over 500 MW.
The man must be losing his marbles. This suggestion is a total and impossible farce. Firstly the investment to accomplish such a feat would be enormous even if some people decided to generate their own power and put the excess onto the grid. And speaking of those people and net metering, just what time of day do you think residential and farm customers would put power onto the grid…exactly, at night when it isn’t needed or used.
Furthermore no economy can function on energy sources which aren’t reliable so that means having back up generation for when the sun doesn’t shine or the wind doesn’t blow. And by the way, back up generation isn’t just an empty power plant waiting to be started up and shut down at any given moment. Boilers, turbines and generators don’t react well to such a scenario so the standby plants have to be built, running on standby, operated, maintained and paid for.
Plus all of the so-called renewable options need to be subsidized by everyone on the grid to make them economically feasible. If anyone thinks a private windmill is cheap go talk to the trucker at Carnduff who got mad at SaskPower and set up his own windtower, which I have never seen operate. If you ever happen to drive past anyone of our present windfarms when it is 10 or more degrees below zero you will also see no blades turning and one would logically expect that winter might be a high energy use season. What a joke, I can only guess he wants the green vote but knows he will be long gone by 2030.
Given how the carbon capture has turned out this becomes an even scarier proposition.
In 1980 Sweden passed a law to faze out nuclear plants. They embarked on a decommission schedule but forgot to replace the plants with new capacity. Individual consumption was increasing and in 2010 they had to repeal the 1980 law because they were running out of power.
Sask. Power generating capacity is 4,180 MW. Of that coal generating capacity is 1,530 MW including two coal plants (Boundary Dam and Poplar River) of more than 500 MW capacity each. There are 864 MW of hydro that ran at 62% of capacity during 2014. The system appears to be robust enough to incorporate some wind and back it up by ponding hydro capability.
http://www.saskpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2014-SaskPower-Annual-Report.pdf
It is a stretch, however, to get to 50% and the emphasis on solar cited in the article seems particularly difficult given the latitudes we are talking here. Significant expansion of wind is also a challenge; most of the back-up would have to come from natgas plants.
I hope the politicians are communicating with the folks who have to plan and bring into operation new renewable generation because currently the planning does not seem to be that advanced.
http://www.saskpower.com/about-us/blog/blog-5-questions-on-ccs-and-our-future-supply-plans/
Apparently Ontario has an “installed capacity” of 4,300 Mw. Right now the actual output is 1000 Mw. Which is higher than it usually is.
This is North America’s version of Mao’s “Cultural Revolution.”
Does anyone have any numbers on how much time, money, and infrastructure is needed to build those windmills and to maintain them?
I see they have this tendency to self-destruct, especially in WIND STORMS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhXMycNAGpQ/
Those windmills are so incredibly fragile. I suspect a whole farm of them could be destroyed given a strong enough “climate change” storm (pun intended).
Where’s Kate?
Good catch Robert but don’t forget that Greenies never look behind the curtain. Saskatchewan could install 50% renewable all backed by natural gas back-stopping 70% of the actual renewable energy and the green machine would be patting itself on the back for a job well done.
Living in Ottawa you’re probably paying close to $0.20/kWh thanks to Ontario’s energy plan. It’s good to see the other provinces giving Ontario a run for its money. Leveling the playing field.
This test solar farm in Minnesota shows the huge gulf between actual performance and “potential” performance in the solar industry. The only reason solar is being used commercially in Minnesota is because leftists in the legislature have mandated its use. We are busy shutting down coal plants in the US on the promise that “green” energy that only produces 13% of the promised power will make up the difference:
–Great River installed a 240 kilowatt solar array at its Maple Grove headquarters in 2014 to test how solar technology performs in Minnesota to improve the design and operation of future projects.
GRE recorded ideal weather conditions — clear, sunny days from sun-up to sunset — just 10 percent of the time. Surprisingly, none of the perfect days came during typically sunnier, summer months.
Fair-to-partly-cloudy “partially ideal” days occurred 20 percent of the year. Cloudy and overcast conditions blocked out direct rays 70 percent of the year, with November, December and January particularly bad due to snow.
Overall, the solar facility produced power at an average of 13.6 percent of its potential capacity, generating enough electricity to supply about 30 homes.–
http://watchdog.org/239957/minnesota-weather-clouds-solar-power-potential/
Dog show circuit.
Another disappointment from Brad Wall. Wall is from Swift Current, there is a huge wind farm SE of the city, namely the Centennial Wind Power project. It produces about 150 MW of power with 83 Turbines, enough to power 69,000 homes. And on a windy day, the turbines are rather impressive. In literature and poetry, windmills are often associated with romance, and of course, romance is often the luxury of dreamers.
I visited the site with my buddy who was driving a new F-150. We were about 50 yards from the large turbine, temp was about +10C. The noise coming from the turbine was no greater than the sound of the 5.4 liter V-8 that was idling. I would have estimated the wind speed at 30 MPH. And no, I did not see dead crows.
However when I researched the economics behind the turbines, keeping in mind that I was getting the info from a friend at Sask. Power, I discovered the project to be a money loser. I don’t recall the figures, however nuclear would be more economically feasible for the long haul, and simply because even with a wind project that could produce all of Saskatchewan’s demand, they still have to maintain a backup powered by coal, water, gas, uranium etc. And keep in mind that in dry years, hydro dams go empty, so there again, we still need backup. Wake up Brad!! If you want to be NDP, fine, but please change the color of the flags on your front bumper.
This proposal pisses me off to no end. It seems too typical of Brad Wall’s government: half-measures toward liberalizing the economy (liquor stores, private health care, etc.) and then full-on statist boondoggle with others (CCS, renewables). He’s great on national issues where Sask doesn’t have control (Senate abolishment, Syrian refugees) yet quiet on those opportunities where he could easily implement change given political will but doesn’t because populism (protectionist on farmland, interfering with PotashCorp sale). It’s frustrating, as someone who is a Sask Party member, to know that we really don’t have a principled conservative or libertarian alternative to the NDP.
Wall is a great premier and an extraordinary political talent. I just wish he’d bend a little more to the principled right on issues which might not be as popular.
To hell with those damn bird and bat chopping wind turbines lets harness the Hot Air that comes from the mouths of the political hacks and eco-wackos
Point 1: Greentards don’t consider hydro to be “renewable”; probably because it works.
Point 2: Yes there was some scheme to generate/produce/harvest geothermal energy from hot formations at depth in the Estevan area, and eastward. There are some anomalously hot formations at depth, say 110 degrees C vs the more typical 70 C found at that depth. So you sink a well, bring 110 degree brine to the surface, use it to run a thermal plant using Freon or ammonia as a working fluid, and pump the cooled brine back into the formation. Yes, you could generate some electricity, but no, not much, because the physics of heat engines tells us it won’t be much. It would generate a small amount of “green” energy, 24/7, at a large capital cost per mW capacity. And no one knows how long the thermal resource would stay warm, with energy being sucked out of it. I had an opportunity to put money into it, and didn’t.
the deaths of 100s of thousands of migratory birds sunk the notion of wind farms in my book.
the denial and dumb look on the faces of the greens any time this is mentioned in the context of `green energy`, well, their silence speaks volumes. another manifestation of hypocrisy.
hell bent on an agenda, don`t confuse them with the facts, bla bla bla.
Last night the Ontario bird blender were producing 1000 megawatts of power. This morning, it’s 173 megawatts. That is a more usual number than the 1000 we had yesterday.
A oil spill happens some birds get oiled up and some twats from GREENPEACE or some other eco-freak group are sending you their junk mail urging you to send them $500(Hollywood suckers are always sending them money)and oppose coastal oil drilling and want to ban all oil drilling and Obama lied big time(Earning another Pinnochio)but if some birds get chopped up in a windturbine then Listen to the crickets folks
WTF?
Turf Brad Wall.
Greentards don’t consider hydro to be “renewable”; probably because it works
Just like the Pope not being against birth control, just birth control that works.
Of course Mr Wall has it figured out, the missing “Renewable power” will come from large groups of civic saboteurs , once convicted, running on giant treadmills.
Naturally every citizen with a hate on for carbon based life, every anti-hydrocarbon halfwit and anyone who contributes to Saint Suzuki, any one who accepts money from outside Canada to attack our industry…
Any do-gooder who wants to use our money to assuage their pet guilt.. the list is endless.
every member of the Public Service alliance..
If you are gonna preach the Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming creed, belong to the Cult of Calamitous Climate..you need to practise what you prescribe.
Save the oil, run the fat off of these airheads.
think of it as liken to the joys of banging your head against a wall..
It feels so good when you stop.
And look to the benefits.
A fit civil service.
No more prisons
More fertilizer
A much smarter class of eco-activist.
Much enlightened citizens.
The luxury of our current lifestyle is unprecedented in our known history.
Those who argue against humans freed from slavery, drudgery and cold.. Need to put up.
Show us the way oh Enlightened Ones.
And finally under a merciless supervision, this is the only renewable ,alternate energy source that performs as well as hydro, as in 24 hours per day 7days per week.
Got more load?
Add more wheels of pain.
Build for nuclear reactors near Buffalo Narrows and call it a day.
BTW: Alberta will need to buy that excess power sooner rather than later.