“The victim told police that she was attacked after smoking marijuana and drinking beer with people she believed to be her friends, including one girl who had been her best friend since kindergarten.
Patricia Montes, 15, and Erica Avery, 16, are charged with two counts each of felony armed sexual assault and kidnapping. Both have been charged as adults.”
“Two hits off a joint will blow your head off.”
Point is conceded about higher thc content in today’s weed but this statement is fear mongering at best, sheer ignorance at worst.
“Plus we don’t know they didn’t spice up their weed with a little meth or something, people have been known to do that kind of thing too.”
We also don’t know if they huffed gasoline either. People have been known to do that too. What does that have to do with the tenuous causal link the author is trying (and failing) to establish?
KevinB, spot on in every respect.
I too fought a fearsome battle with the bottle and quit cold turkey Jan 19, 2006 at 10:00 am, not to put too fine a point on it. I had quit for 13 years long ago and took it up again, gulp, on the recommendation of my shrink while recovering from depression, after being told that a glass of wine before dinner was a very civilized thing to do. Which became two bottles and/or multiple 3 oz Martinis. Shudder.
My skipper was a manic depressive alkee. For sure, hootch is vastly more dangerous than pot.
As discussed on interminable threads here, no subject better demarcates a libertarian from a conservative than prohibition. Every libertarian knows that the outcomes from prohibition are far more dangerous than the alleged social ills it tries to correct.
It pains me to say it but JT is right on this, if not on his ranking of important social problems.
Yes, yes, if they were all stone cold sober they would have done exactly the same thing…only those who don’t escape reality don’t know that…
Hey, if Obamba had a son he’d look like Jayvon.
Every libertarian knows that the outcomes from prohibition are far more dangerous than the alleged social ills it tries to correct.
People known for being self-destructive telling the sane how to run the world…what could go wrong?
I feel both rage and sadness when these tragic and needless crimes take place. A combination of booze, drugs, and some individuals intent on evil acts due to an absence of discretion or empathy no doubt learned from a lack of discipline, guidance, and influences that excuse and legitamize abhorant behaviour.
There is a reason they call it dope.
It makes you stupid,not violent, not a murderer, but it does make your mind weaker.
Your discretionary ability is disabled so that, as it is with alcohol, excessive use has a debilitating affect on the individual which depending on their constitution (health not legal one) they will respond differently.
I won’t condemn anyone that decides to drink or smoke, thats their choice, but don’t argue that being drunk or stoned is a good thing that should be encouraged.
Drinking to excess is damaging to society and in spite of the contentions that its just a plant, smoking dope does carry risks to the users health.
I’m of the opinion of a previous poster, if there are those advocating that certain behaviours be allowed, first give me the freedom to protect me and my family from it and make the user take fiscal responsibilty for the damage they cause.
Finally, having the government involved so they get it’s cut and give it a shellac of false legitimacy ain’t fooling anyone. Legalizing a behaviour won’t make it good or right. Same goes for any politician posing as PM material.
Notice how he turns to his default “religion is to blame for everything” position.
Luckily Christianity is not a religion, but a reality. Probably why he needs an escape from reality.
Phil >
“I admit it. I was wrong.”
We’ve been telling you that for years.
Now go smoke a joint and dream of gay farmers molesting you, it’s time to let the adults talk for awhile sweetie.
Phil, are you capable of stringing together more than 5 words that aren’t a personal attack? I really feel sorry for you having to struggle through life with such a feeble mind and weak character.
Again with the personal attacks. I’m going to tell you this one last time pill. I DONT HAVE AN AGRINVEST ACCOUNT!!!
Did you get that loud and clear little man?
I think what lance is saying here is that J. Turdeau is advocating for the thin edge of the wedge. What else is in this report / video? It isn’t just about dope and beer.
But then again, it is fun watching all the dope heads exploding.
http://takimag.com/article/blacks_rape_preteen_hispanic_in_texas_whites_get_blamed1/print#disqus_thread
Boy this topic brings out the strong opinion! Oh, and the name calling. And why does religion get dragged into it? I would say religion gets dragged into it because people feel judged.
First of all, the story is not about pot or beer. It is about a poor girl who was horribly and sadly abused by people she trusted. The perps, when found guilty should suffer the full extent of the law. My question is, what causes two young girls to feel such a strong need to seek the approval of such a monster that they would lure and turn on their “friend”.
Secondly, I’ve never know good things to happen after an evening of heavy drinking or pot smoking. People don’t normally fall off of balconies after an evening of tea drinking and an ensuing fight. You don’t see don’t see 2 friends holding down a friend to get raped at Starbucks fuelled by too many lattes. Or a slugfest at 2 pm outside 7eleven between two guys fuelled by Slurpees.
Thirdly, all of the long term pot smokers I know tend to be a little paranoid and are more susceptible to conspiracy theories, are now single and tend to lack ambition and tend to be suspicious of other people’s motives. Not saying this third point is true, but it is my observation over the years.
MND: “Every libertarian knows that the outcomes from prohibition are far more dangerous than the alleged social ills it tries to correct.”
Right and true in every word. And yet the morally outraged insist on repeating the same failed recipe time after time. Hypocritical disclaimers aside about “do what you like as long as I’m not involved”, their desire to enforce moral conformance is nothng more than another fascism.
And I say “hypocritical” because when they make such statements they’re all lying their faces off. They want what they deem undesirable activity stamped out, not quarantined. With all the other news of the day so much more important, what gets them all riled up? The trivial issue of pot legalization.
Ever notice that when bad sh1t like this beating/rape goes down, 99 times out of 100 the scumbags have been drinking and/or drugging?
How many episodes do we know of where somebody committed a heinous crime stone cold sober?
Just sayin’.
The trivial issue of pot legalization.
Gee, if it’s so trivial, how come you’re all heated up about it?
Libertarians are like leftists, what’s important to them should be of required importance to everyone. Drugs do tend to give people an inflated sense of self-importance. It’s that escape from reality thing.
Great to see the races and genders working so effortlessly together.
stradivarious,
As of this post there are about 74 comments on this topic. Over 10% of them are yours, yet you haven’t even bothered to address the story once.
Unlike you, I want to hear as many differing views as possible so I can form my own informed opinion and I am tired of coming across your immature personal attacks every couple of posts.
I think everyone here has clearly figured out your mind is welded shut on the topic of weed so why don’t you STFU and let others put forth their personal opinions without your constant harassment.
Gee, I’m all concerned about what you want…
Good summary KB
The ‘anti-pot’ people and the AGW people use the same faulty logic and flawed mythology to support their arguments. In both cases it’s extremist projections based on edited data to fit a social agenda for moral reasons. Any intelligent person who is capable of objective observation can see that.
Yes, of course, those who escape reality are obviously more in touch with reality than those who don’t escape reality.
I wonder if he is capable of realizing how silly that sounds?
It looks like the beer and pot were just tools used by a pimp and his stable to attempt to recruit another teenage hooker.
Congratulations Aviator on being the poster best “grokking” this story. The teenage hookers themselves are, however, heavily on the chronic. Check the Facebook page of currently-in-custody Erica Avery:
https://www.facebook.com/erica.michelleavery.940/photos
This thread started awkwardly. Justin Trudeau has nothing to do with it and everyone knows it. His name doesn’t belong in the post title. “Victimless Crime number xyz” would suffice.
The article is about the beating and rape of a young woman. Beer and Marijuana were consumed by both the victim and the attackers. The victim was beaten and pepper sprayed. Until further information comes out at trial, let us suppose that these are the facts.
Axiom: Inanimate objects by definition cannot act on their own.
Beer didn’t beat and rape her. Marijuana didn’t beat and rape her. The pepper spray didn’t spray itself on her, then beat and rape her.
Axiom: People are responsible for their own actions. Corollary: People are not responsible for the actions of others. Corollary: The decision to consume a substance that impairs your judgement, reasoning ability, temper, way of thinking etc. is a conscious decision, therefore you are still responsible for your actions under those conditions.
Both the attackers and the victim consumed both beer and marijuana. By itself either one is a substance which alters the operation of the mind. Taken together the two substances interact, producing effects that are not seen with only one. All involved were using both substances, yet there is only one victim.
It is not the beer or the marijuana or the pepper spray that caused the beating and rape. It was people.
” … more important, what gets them all riled up? The trivial issue of pot legalization.”
It seems to have you all riled up.
And how is it you can speak for me? I really don’t give a sh*t what you, or others like you, do. I just don’t want to pay for it – I have a lot of better things to spend my money on.
BTW: I liked the way that you managed to bring fascism into your unriled-up discourse.
This thread started awkwardly. Justin Trudeau has nothing to do with it and everyone knows it. His name doesn’t belong in the post title. “Victimless Crime number xyz” would suffice.
The article is about the beating and rape of a young woman. Beer and Marijuana were consumed by both the victim and the attackers. The victim was beaten and pepper sprayed. Until further information comes out at trial, let us suppose that these are the facts.
Axiom: Inanimate objects by definition cannot act on their own.
Beer didn’t beat and rape her. Marijuana didn’t beat and rape her. The pepper spray didn’t spray itself on her, then beat and rape her.
Axiom: People are responsible for their own actions. Corollary: People are not responsible for the actions of others. Corollary: The decision to consume a substance that impairs your judgement, reasoning ability, temper, way of thinking etc. is a conscious decision, therefore you are still responsible for your actions under those conditions.
Both the attackers and the victim consumed both beer and marijuana. By itself either one is a substance which alters the operation of the mind. Taken together the two substances interact, producing effects that are not seen with only one. All involved were using both substances, yet there is only one victim.
It is not the beer or the marijuana or the pepper spray that caused the beating and rape. It was people.
Good points. Additional factors to consider:
People who drink beer in excess frequently commit violent acts.
People who consume cannabis moderately or in excess seldom commit violent acts. Stupid mistakes causing self-harm are not uncommon, however violence towards others is rare.
No unproven synergistic effect of the combination of alcohol and cannabis is required. The alcohol would have done it, the cannabis consumption was incidental.
Occam’s razor prevails.
I am enjoying the debate very much — excellent comments on all sides, including brilliant slicing and dicing, from time to time.
Why, it’s almost like, you know, a reformed parliament, which won’t happen, even if Mr. Cheech’s — sorry, Mr. Chong’s — bill is passed, for the simple reason that the Conservatives are not the problem: the opposition and the media want only one thing out of that tater — a “reformed” (read sliced and diced) Conservative Party; none of the former are the least bit interested in slicing and dicing themselves.
No matter. I’d just point out the following, which no one seems to have mentioned, at last comment check-in:
“Patricia Montes, 15, and Erica Avery, 16, are charged with two counts each of felony armed sexual assault and kidnapping. Both have been charged as adults.
Henry, 17, of Hollywood; Lanel Singleton, 18, of North Miami; and Woolfork, 19, all face charges of capital felony sexual assault and kidnapping.”
“Capital” is not a word we use in Canada anymore in respect of crimes, since we, er, don’t have capital punishment: apparently, the death penalty is in play in this case, as is adult treatment of minors facing “indictable” offences, as we call them in this country, which means incarceration, for a period of not less than two years, in a penetentiary (federal prison, at Her Majesty’s pleasure). Which would imply extreme organizational and criminal intent aforethought, including the promise of booze and dope to lure the alleged victim into the situation.
Which is not what Justin Trudeau has in mind at all, to be fair, even if I would never vote for him. The problems with Mr. Trudeau, Jr.’s, you know, proposals, such as they are, which are as glib, frankly, as “Vee, vill raplas da JST”, are as innumerable as they are serious.
Colorado and Washington cannot be help up as examples to Canada, any more than Florida can: Canadian federalism is different than American federalism — there are no crucibles or experiments in Canadian federalism — there is one only criminal law in Canada.
I am frankly more inclined to Mr. MacKay’s initial position: I hope Mr. MacKay develops his position through to a reasonable outcome, including a ticketing and confiscation provision for the first two possessions for personal use (with no criminal charge).
Wow Lance.
Just wow.
For me,I’m just happy that the Liberal Left didn’t get all the small-minded, intellectually dishonest ignoramuses.
ah, the religious zealots are pretty close to the defining/division line on irrelivent/nonsensical issues. God gave man “free will”, butt the hypocritical kristians would use the power of the state to over ride god’s will..:-))))666….666
Shows what you know, he also gave us the LAW and the gospel. It is up to us to point out sin as Christians to our brothers and sisters period full stop. the problem becomes as soon as we show them there sin they point out ours, and so many Christians in my opinion will use gov to point out sin, while personally trying to deal with there own. See I believe doing drugs is a sin, but so is being a lard ass who does nothing all day. so instead of running my mouth about others I look in the mirror and try to focus on my own sin.
When it comes to politics I look for the party that most represents my biblical beliefs.
paul said “When it comes to politics I look for the party that most represents my biblical beliefs.”, and that just proves my point. paul you can live an exemplar kristian life without the interference of the state, the state serves all beliefs and should not favour any one belief, and that is one reason I’m against prayer in schools. Now paul try putting some sense to your post at 430 jan 12, it’s absolutely ridicules, you quack private health care when a social break down is the issue, neither pot nor booze is the issue. What we have is an example that is so often over looked, and that is ppl who socially go against the “grain” are often showing a sign of social confusion, lack of self worth, or rebellion, or a combination of these.
…the state serves all beliefs and should not favour any one belief…
Heh, the ‘state’ kinda borrowed most of the Christian Laws and Statutes. You want the ‘state’ to stop ‘favouring’ those as well?
That would include the Laws and the punishments. The pagan religions varied the punishments according to who the perpetrator was.
Just to Goodwin this thread: I’m under the impression that Hitler did not drink.
So based on this false equivalency all people who don’t drink must be Hitler.
You can’t argue this fact because of science.
WELL nme, this is debatable I am sure for you but one thing that is certain is that this country of Canada is most definatly a Christian country founded on Christian beliefs through and through, the fact that our gov is still based off of the British system mostly , which came from the church as well should not shock you when people such as myself , a flawed ,biased Christian conservative both socially and fiscally do what I stated above.
I want to live in a country that glorifies god, in all things, unfortunately there are decenters such as yourself but I am ok with that, it’s how we can improve as Christians. And I am absolutely FOR prayer in our schools and the moral teachings of the bible if we don’t get back to that basic of moral beliefs we will be doomed just like every other country that abandons it’s Christian roots.
I know you disagree, that’s fine when a group of athiests builds a successful peaceful society on there own then yall can decide what is said in your schools if you even have any. once again school’s and hospitals/healthcare along with universities are all Christian designs stemming from gods desire for peace and love amongst all his children. but you knowing so much of the bible would already know that. Is there anypart of the bible that you like that is good or do you just read it to crap on it and Christians? oh yeah soup kitchens,salvation army once again all Christian concepts and ideas in our effots to bring people to god and share the gospel some fellowship and a warm cup o soup.
Ps , the only reason I said private health care is because everyone went on a legalize mariujuana tangent. I am ok with that but I want private health care, you want legal prostitution , I want private health care….ect ect…
And what was that you said? something about a social break down? of what kind of a breakdown was it? I know these kids only did this in between sunday school , bible studies ,and church I am sure of it. these kids all of them are most definatly practicing Christians aren’t they nme?
strad
what fools like you fail to understand is that there was only one game around a couple of hundred years ago, the “church” had quite a restrictive grip on things, and would have kept that grip if she could. Back then the church was the authoritarian oppressive force, but that changed because there were those who disseminated information (reading became more widely practiced and books became more available) against the churches wishes, we advance not because of the church, but inspite of it. One should not expect that our modern western ways, laws and social construct, would be based on any thing but what prevailed in the past, and that is what make fools like you look so damn stupid, did you think that some space alien would come down and hand Marx 10 tablets with instructions, FOOL!!!!
and dim witt paul, this post is also directed at you!!
You make your assumptions based on what you believe. The church was not and has not EVER. Been the only game in town that is complete and utter BS!!
There was atheists before during and after Christ the difference is that today much like the Israelites of the past we humans think we are the end all be all (as shown by you) but the truth is when TSHTF people always return to god because he is our only hope .
Exactly to the contrary all of our western ways laws Ect Ect are all that has prevailed from the past . Tweaks here and there from technological advances but other than that we are still at the mercy of each other and ultimately god.
Believe it or not it’s up to you.