The Bloomberg report makes it clear that Obama’s order opens the way for further litigation and substantial delays on Keystone, whether the federal government officially blocks construction or not. That’s because NEPA allows citizens and environmental groups to file claims against projects even after they win government approval.
So the Obama administration could green-light the pipeline, file a report that stops short of calling Keystone a major global-warming hazard, and still find the project delayed for years by environmental groups bringing court challenges under the new NEPA guidelines.
Because delaying Keystone until after 2012 made no sense politically – unless he was determined to stop it all along.
Related:
Palin at CPAC…”…step away from the teleprompter and do your job!…”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkRw4EOwY2g&feature=youtu.be
Build the pipeline west and let the Americans go their own way.
The only subject he studied at Haaavvard was
“How to enrage the Sheep”
Chicago, “blind to the future d-bag”
I hope he rots in Prison, beside Al Gore and
David Suzuki.
Bastard.
dwright
Doesn’t matter. Harper sold the oil to Richmond… errrr. China.
Kate said: “- unless he was determined to stop it all along.”
“Determined” is probably too strong a word to use regarding the USA’s first Affirmative Action President. Maybe “languidly inclined toward” stopping it.
I still think instead of a pipeline they should build the mother of all refineries in Alberta and another one in Saskatchewan and sell finished product to the Americans by rail car. And to the Chicoms by ship. Pipeline to the BC coast, let the sonsabeeotches line up for it.
Why should Canada do what the wogs do, and just send crude out as fast as possible? That’s a mug’s game. The money is in value-added refining. Science stays in Canada, physical plant stays in Canada, jobs stay in Canada. Make finished product and sell that.
BTW, I know that all US states have different blends and regulations and its impossible to sell finished product and blah blah blah. Guarantee you all those regulations will change in a heartbeat after the first week of state-wide fuel shortages in California. Let them take what’s on offer out of the tap, or let them walk. Chicoms will buy everything we can ship anyway.
IMHO, of course. I am not an oil man, nor do I play one on TV.
Thing is Phantom, the Borg (leftists far and wide) keep advocating Canadian refineries, but have no solution to the question “who will build them”?
Sounds great in theory, but if it was economically viable, they would be halfways built. And no, no-way gubmint subsidies are involved, that’s now a make work project on something that isn’t viable. The leftard universe will still be against pipelines, whether they are bitumen, or finished product.
It will take the army to build the Northern Gateway, too many low information idiots are convinced that it is evil and a minor spill will hurt tree roots 200km away from a spill. The stupidity is thick as thieves. Too many useful native and environazi idiots for it to go through, unless we have a government with a pair of brass ones, and that’s not the PMSH gubmint, which seems to have moved quietly to the center, to our overall detriment……
This is great news! Now lets get on with building pipelines west, east and north. Don’t worry about the ecoloons and leftists. They are a noisy but small minority.
Saskatchewan would be a great place for a refinery! I love the idea of a Canadian refinery because it would (a) give us real energy independence and (b) cause a mass suicide on the eco-left. Let’s hear from someone knowledgeable about oil .. do we produce enough oil to justify a refinery? Would a Canadian refinery ever be cost competitive with foreign refineries?
“Who runs Bartertown?”
Honestly, this is getting pretty pathetic and if the public haven’t figured out they are being duped by the eco-enviro-progressive ass hats then let them rot in their own self induced hell.
Correction: our hell, Canadian politicians are leading us down the same insane path. They expect the world to convert to unicorn farts for future energy just before they make unicorns an endangered species.
Perhaps a change in pipeline ownership and
a lush contract to haul the oil south in the
meantime by unit trains of a certain railroad
(with Canada stuck with the extra tab) might
clear away all obstacles in a surprisingly
short time. (Nudge. Nudge. Wink. Wink.)
All part of Barry’s plan.
It would be awfully tempting to say to the US that if you don’t want our “dirty oil”, then clearly you don’t need our electricity or other energy (freeze in the dark, New York state, and New York Times, try running the presses through pedal power).
But obviously the mechanics of the grid are far more complex…although we are a net exporter of electricity to the US, there are times of peak demand when the flow goes north instead of south.
The solution clealy lies in reversing the existing pipelines to run eastward, eliminating, or at least minimizing the need to import oil from the middle east.
But at some point in time, the US is desperately going to need us…Obama is making sure that we’ll ignore the call for help.
Max, the economics was that using American surplus refining capacity was always lower cost than building new refineries in Canada. Now that this directive has hit the floor, Keystone may indeed be dead on arrival. The administration may not stop it, because of the State Department’s finding of no impact, but the US statute allows lawsuits to proceed even after access has been granted by the government. Along with the usual court orders of stay of project, this means at best the project can be delayed for most of this decade.
So I expect there’s going to be a lot of recasting of the economics of Alberta crude exports. Fact is right now, Alberta’s oil is landlocked, facing de facto blockades by the US and our good friends in British Columbia.
One of Machiavelli’s most quoted aphorisims is “Beware the gratitude of Princes.” All of the friendship and goodwill built up over the past 10 years of heavy lifting in Afghanistan and various other Middle Eastern toilets means nothing. It’s about time a lot of us learned the Americans are NOT our friends. They have clamped down on us an economic blockade they would never have dared to levy against their enemies during the Cold War.
And make no mistake, the Obama administration is well aware of the internal Canadian political dynamics. This plays right into the hands of the Dippers, because they can turn around and say to gullible Canadians, “See how stupid the Harper government was to bank on energy exports as a way of keeping Canada’s economy strong?”
Much as I hate to admit it, you Albertans had the right idea 30 years ago, albeit with a different geographic direction required. “Let the southern bastards freeze in the dark.” It’s time we grew up. We’re Canadians, and they are a pack of Yankee bastards.
Well said, cgh.
From and “Alberta Son”
Frack them.
dwright
Time to build nuclear power stations at Fort Mac. Our oil will be advertised as having the lowest carbon footprint. The US will mandate its use, even at a premium.
Max, I have to agree with a number of your points. Personally, I love Americans…they are nice and truly generous people. But governments are a completely different question. Canada has been a strong and faithful ally and partner to the US for decades, and now we are being treated like Sh!t.
What Obama seems to be doing is to convince us that the US is no longer a reliable ally, and we should look elsewhere. Which of course, we will do. There is no such thing as altruism in government…all governments must act in the self-interests of their populace.
And if, appparently according to Obama’s policies, the US is willing to ignore us as an important ally and trade partner…well…we’re grown-ups and we are now a force in the world….we are no longer dependent on the US. We’ll simply find another friend or two.
And long term, that will not benefit the citizens of the US
cgh, well said. What are the alternatives?
At the moment it appears that Al Gore and the Fruitfly are winning on this issue, what with Obama scuttling Keystone through the connivance of George Soros’ handlers and environmental front organizations.
The Gateway seems blocked at the moment and we do not know if the hearings will allow it to proceed.
A pipeline to Canada’s east coast has a snowball’s chance in that hot place of going through, as the usual useful idiots will do the dirty work for the leftist cabal opposing any energy production.
I put this link in on the 15th. Explains in detail why Keystone could have problems.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-03-15/obama-will-use-nixon-era-law-to-fight-climate-change.html
Ps, the filter grabbed this one. Would love to know why ??
I am with those who say: ‘good ! lets build the pipeline west and east and maybe refine our own. The US is a sinking ship. let em go til they come to their senses.
I am not willing to blame the USA for this….I regard the USA as occupied territory. The current US government has as much legitimacy as Iran’s Ahmadinnerjacket regime.
I refuse to accept the statistically improbable result of 100% voter turnout with ALL the votes going for 1 guy….not one for the other…..not just 1 or 2 isolated instances…
In those areas some individuals have been charged/convicted of voting at least 6 times….it’s not tin-foil hat stuff.
That said, turning off the taps would be small term pain for long term gain….something the US military taught me….when ya got them by the shorts…their hearts and mind will follow. Like what are they gonna do…invade?
The US from time to time has meddled in Canadian sovereign affairs….turnabout is fair play….besides maybe we will burn the WH agin………
That was a good vent….
A good vent indeed but absolutely true. Putin’s dream has come to America.
A good one, but misguided i fear. The people of the US elected their ridiculous government using the system that has been in place for a long time. Was it corrupt? Sure! But where is the will to reform it now that the election is over? Where was the reasonable alternative to elect instead of Obama? Of all the people in the US they could not fans better candidates? No. it is true what they say, we get the government we deserve. Americans need to stew in it for a while, and accept the blame as a group, rather than cling to excuses.
I’ve mentioned it before, and think that the best way of dealing with a pipeline from Alberta to the Pacific is by the interior of BC seceding from the coastal moonbats. The sane people of BC along with over 90% of the territory join Alberta, the pipeline gets built and the Vancouver moonbats can use try to generate solar power on their overcast days and use rickshaws to get around. Considering that the governments of BC and Vancouver have been infiltrated by terrorist organizations, I’m quite concerned that PMSH hasn’t stepped in and cleaned the enemies of the people out. Still, I’d much rather be a resident of greater Alberta than a province comprised primarily of moonbats.
Agree with sasquatch that the best thing to do is to totally cut off all oil exports to the US. Again, it would take some balls on the part of the current government which can start exporting the oil to China and let the USSA know that they can always buy oil from the Chinese if they run short. China will take all the oil that we can export.
The other thing that PMSH hasn’t been doing nearly enough is telling Obozo and the other USSA watermelon lunatics that CO2 is plant food and that the whole of CAGW is a scam. Harper was a lot more forthright when he was head of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. The Lieberals had no difficulty in using the RCMP to investigate fictitious crimes from the so-called Conservative party when Cretin got in and the fact that the Tides foundation terrorists haven’t been rounded up and jailed is totally mystifying. The other thing that Harper should do is to cancel the F-35 order and consider buying fighters from another source.
Canada should also allow US political refugees to enter the country as I suspect there are going to be a lot of them as opposition to Obozo intensifies S. of the border. It may be that Obozo’s attack on the 2nd amendment might be the spark which ignites a new US civil war. It would be prudent for Canada to align itself with US states which are the most opposed to Obozo. There’s a long history of Calgary and Texas being close because of the oil industry.
Will also agree with sasquatch that the USSA is now occupied territory and, given the existence of US terrorist groups operating in Canada, the Canadian government should start funding US groups which are seeking the return of democracy in the USSA. A few million dollars in support to the NRA would go a long way. If the US complains about “interference in internal affairs”, tell them about the Tides foundation, and Hewlett Packard foundations which are essentially terrorist organizations under Canadian law and should have all of their assets seized.
“…The people of the US elected their ridiculous government using the system that has been in place for a long time. Was it corrupt? Sure! But where is the will to reform it now that the election is over? ”
You’ve nailed it. Will to reform? Hahahahaha!
Ken, Section 121 of the Constitution Act, 1867 provides for the free flow of goods across Canada. It means in a nutshell that Canadian provinces cannot block the shipment of goods from other provinces. There were a number of court rulings in the 1920s and 1930s which somewhat weakened this general principle. Nevertheless the federal government holds jurisdiction over the transit right of goods, not the provinces, and it can set aside any other statutes which would interfere.
This means that Parliament can create right of access through British Columbia or any other province for the transport of its oil. In short, pass a 1950s style national pipeline act and ram it through. There’s some legislation which needs to be set aside to do this, CEAA most notably.
In my view, Canada must complete the Northern Gateway pipeline. With respect to the aboriginals, the simplest and easiest way to deal with them is money. If they have a share in the proceeds, opposition will start to disappear.
The kicker is this. If the federal governent does this it will probably mean that it will face the same consequences as the Louis St. Laurent government did in the late 1950s. Remember, John Diefenbaker rode to power on opposition to the TransCanada Pipeline, and Tom Mulcair will do so as well under such circumstances.
But the country needs this pipeline. We need to stop selling all our oil at a steep discount to the Americans.
Even the worst presidents the US has suffered under were not stupid enough to isolate themselves from abundant cheap Canadian resources or jeopardize the Canadian market for US goods. That puts this president in a whole new category of stupid.
We should do all we can to insulate ourselves from this self impose implosion of American economy and democracy. There is no point in hitching your economic future to a suiciding loser. I;m preying the American people straighten out this current cluster-frig in Washington, but my patience is growing short. If they don’t want the oil others do – people in direct economic competition with the US.
On refining, I agree with you that the any failure of Keystone XL could potentially change the economics in the short(er) run, but I would argue that that wouldn’t change where anything sits at all on the longer-run total cost function. If you’ve not already done so, have a look at:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2013/03/15/andrew-coyne-the-problem-isnt-where-mulcair-spoke-about-keystone-its-that-hes-wrong/
which, I thought was overall pretty good, aside from Mr. Coyne’s ridiculous form of weasel words about Mr. Mulcair’s right to posit his definition of the national interest. Away from Canadians. In Washington. Blah, blah, blah.
The money line, which came part way through the best part of Coyne’s argument, I thought was this:
“If refining oil in Canada really offered superior returns to shipping it abroad, I’d bet the industry is at least as capable of realizing it as the NDP caucus.”
In this regard, my bet would be that the Canadian part of the industry is going to be pretty leery about building new refining capacity in this country any time soon, when there appears to be excess capacity in that part of the North American system now, and after a sustained period where it has been trying to consolidate and reduce refining capacity in Canada because of under-utilization and associated higher costs. This would go double, IMO, since the incentive to do so would be a series of de facto trade barriers, however illegal, if cleverly constructed from Mr. Obama’s political perspective.
I’m pretty certain that our fellow commentators above, upon careful reflection, would not be satisfied, out of spite for the Americans, to return to a pre-1988 “branch-plant” mentality, characterized, as always, by the economically erroneous, outrageously irresponsible and anachronistically irrelevant views of Mr. Mulcair and the NDP. I, for one, am not interested in any such model of reduced prosperity, which would bear all the residual hallmarks of the Canadian brewing industry. We have a right to demand that that pipeline be built, under both NAFTA and WTO rules.
Which brings me to a final point — when a person of Mr. Rae’s spotty economic and political track record publicly asserts that Keystone XL is the national interest, I get this sinking feeling in my gut that the NDP is definitely about to back-slide all the way to third- or fourth-place oblivion, with all the associated political implications that flow from that.
Occam, only abou 5% of the US economy is dependent upon exports. Most of the US economy is internal, so yes they can indulge in the notion that they don’t need anyone else. And yes, with all the shale gas and oil, they can now rest easy in the notion that they don’t need Canadian oil and gas either in the long run.
Canada however depends on exports for about 40% of its total economy. So yes, we need the Americans much more than they need us. This is Canada’s central economic problem since Confederation.
Your main point is entirely right; we need new trading partners. Badly. And they’re all in Asia.
Someone should point out to the clueless Obama that the entire American economy moves on wheels and wings. The more it costs to turn those wheels etc, the slower they will ever see the economy turn around. Windmills and solar are barriers to economic recovery. Not rocket science. Just logic and common sense. Both in very short supply.
As totally stupid as this sounds, my prediction is that there will be two oil terminals built a mile from each other, one in the US, and one in Canada. Oil will be loaded onto rail, travel by rail a mile over the border, and be unloaded and put into KXL in the US. No presidential approval required, and if Obozo tries blocking it, Warren Buffet will be on his azz, because it will also affect BNSF.
Buffett: “Ramp up the tank car production!”
David Southam, while there may in theory be an oversupply of refining capacity in N. America, look where a lot of the refining capacity is concentrated. It’s on the US Gulf Coast, all it takes is one hurricane to move in the right direction and we go from an oversupply of refining capacity to a crippling under capacity.
Given the geographic location of refineries, the gasoline production system of N. America is very fragile. To make it anti-fragile would require construction of large capacity refineries in both N. Alberta and Saskatchewan. These locations aren’t subject to damage from earthquakes, as are the Pacific coast refineries, and they’re close to the oil sands thus making for shorter pipelines. This would also give Canada a spinoff petrochemical industry.
If the oil industry doesn’t consider refineries economic, then this would be an appropriate use of tax credits by the federal government to get the oil industry to build refinery capacity in a geologically and meteorologically stable location. Also, it would make Canada independent for gasoline production and would make it more likely that the crude oil pipeline to the Pacific would be built. Making a countries economy anti-fragile is a valid function of federal governments.
The simplest way to ensure the pipeline gets built is to not ship any gasoline to Vancouver if the gulf coast refineries are out of service after a hurricane. One could cite the environmental hazards of shipping petroleum products on dangerous roads in pristine habitats and, given the high levels of hypocrisy among the watermelons of Vancouver, they will suddenly panic when their kids might have to walk half a mile to their soccer practice instead of being driven.
From an economic perspective, it makes little sense in operating a refinery at half-capacity. From the standpoint of anti-fragility, it makes excellent sense. For those who are unconvinced by my argument, I suggest you donate one of your kidneys to a patient in renal failure waiting for a transplant as, after all, you can get buy just fine with one kidney. Those who believe in efficiency above all else should jump at the chance to make their bodies more “efficient”.