How many solar panels does it take to make a solar panel?
Idaho Power plans to cut off electricity on Tuesday to plant in Pocatello, Idaho, that makes material for solar energy, because the factory owes $1.9 million in unpaid utility bills. The dispute is with Honolulu-based Hoku Scientific, Inc., which is backed by Chinese financing and enjoys federal and state incentives…
h/t Maz2
Around 20-30 according to one EE prof who has been involved in semi-conductor technology since the 70’s. Silicon semi conductor material just requires that much energy to make,and there’sno way around the physics.
$1.9 million on a $390 million project? I suspect either incompetent management or the Chinese figuring out how to screw the round eye. The plant WILL go broke once operating but it isn’t there yet. How will it work without power AND employees AND inventory?
I love one post saying to open it as a Museum of Green Folly. Actually I might visit it when in the neighborhood of Pocatello. They could add a row of nonfuntional windmills. The green insanity of the early 21st century should be commemorated so our grandchildren don’t make the same stupid mistakes.
We will see a lot of these white elephants die if public funding is pulled.
http://notrickszone.com/2011/07/04/weed-covered-solar-park-20-acres-11-million-only-one-and-half-years-old/
If the plant closes, what should the people who worked there do to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads?
Billions in bailouts for Wall Street, little or nothing to create employment for the average American.
They need to get into a growth industry-like printing dollar bills.
If the plant closes, what should the people who worked there do to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads?
Maybe they could do what all the oilfield workers and Idaho Power gas plant workers they planned to displace with their green jobs,… pound sand.
Maybe they could do what all the oilfield workers and Idaho Power gas plant workers they planned to displace with their green jobs
That’s BS…. with millions of unemployed, ‘green jobs’ are not displacing any other jobs in the energy sector. People just want jobs to keep their homes and feed their families.
Would it be better if they collected welfare or got into the lucrative meth business?
“‘green jobs’ are not displacing any other jobs in the energy sector.” They are if the ‘green job’ sector isn’t paying its bills. If no one pays Idaho Power then Idaho power can’t pay its employees ergo ‘green jobs’ will be displacing other jobs in the energy sector. Then of course there is the taxes that the ‘green jobs’ are taking from the productive side of the energy sector which limits the number of employees the productive side of the energy sector will hire and keep employed. I have no problem with the ‘green jobs’ I have a problem with the ‘green’ sector receiving money they did not earn for stuff others can produce more efficiently.
No Dumbo, the oilfield workers are not being displaced by the green jobs.
The fundamental difference is the oilfield workers are contributing to the economy. The green workers are taking from the economy via government subsidies to support an unsustainable, unworkable and completely useless exercise in mental masturbation on the part of feckless bureaucrats.
Would it be better if they collected welfare or got into the lucrative meth business?
North of 60: Welfare would be cheaper.
And safer. Meth labs often blow up.
I just love it when environmentalist types pretend to care about blue collar jobs. In Idaho, the spotted owl scam was used to eviscerate the timber industry. Lots of good-paying jobs were lost and small towns wiped out. A retired logger from there told me that the only method of forest management left in Idaho now is wildfire. He also warned his son not to go into the logging business.
If no one pays Idaho Power
Reductio ad absurdum is illogical, and invalid.
If Idaho Power doesn’t get paid for the product it provides it goes out of business. That is both logical and valid.
You wouldn’t be one of that there entitlement generation Kate keeps talking about would you north of 60?
Reductio ad absurdum is illogical, and invalid.
Unlike the statement “Would it be better if they collected welfare or got into the lucrative meth business?” which is the epitome of logical, rational thinking.
Opening up the energy industry by removing government obstacles would directly increase job prospects more than any other private industry, IMO. In addition, there would be jobs created in supplying equipment and services. Affordable energy also makes NA manufacturing more competitive. Getting out of the way is the easiest and the most important thing government can do.
You wouldn’t be one of that there entitlement generation Kate keeps talking about would you north of 60?
Nope, not even close. Self-employed in an essential trade. I work for a living, and turn down more jobs than I take on.
Survival of the fittest. Life is not fair, it’s hard; adapt or die.
It’s not economically feasible to produce PV solar in North America. The labor costs in North America are prohibitively expensive and North American environmental regulations which keep our air, water and land from being heavily polluted don’t exist in Asia, so nearly all of the PV production is over there where they can pollute and keep their production costs low. The electricity to run their PV solar factories comes from dirty coal and the factories dump pollution into the environment. The same goes for their wind turbines.
Dummies. Why didn’t they build in Ontario where everything green is economically viable.
” Hoku Scientific, Inc., which is backed by Chinese financing and enjoys federal and state incentives…”
Leftiest, leftier, left.
The perfect recipe for failure.
The green movement of the early 2000’s will be a wart on the earth in future history books!
Getting out of the way is the easiest and the most important thing government can do.
Ya got that part right. The biggest impediment to growth in America is too much useless government regulation.
Keep stories like this in mind when Barack asks to borrow ANOTHER 1.5 TRILLION dollars.
The more money governments get, the more they spend. Reigning in spending is just not in their playbook.
North of 60, Tell me,what is the difference between what the gov’t gives you ,and what you pay to the gov’t? How about your neighbours?
Down here ,south of 60,we are tired of supporting programs that do not provide benefit. If I invest $100 in a project,I expect a return that is not diminishing. This gov’t does not give me that. The previous did not,and it is doubtful that the next one will either.
If living in the north is so hard,move. The companies that are mining will increase wages,or stop mining.
I’m so sick of you teat suckers complaining that the tit isn’t to your liking.
I like that,but to improve;
“I’m really tired of the sucking mouth that only stops to complain about my tit”.
North of 60
“People just want jobs to keep their homes and feed their families.”
That’s how a sound economy works.
If wishes were horses then beggars could ride.
Point the solar panels at each other.
Over one-third of natural gas produced in North Dakota is flared or otherwise not marketed
http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=4030#
Stop government subsidies to the O&G industry, they obviously don’t need them. Corporate welfare encourages waste.
Well, Northy, why don’t you and your frozen buds raise some money, build a pipeline from Williston to Tuk, and then suck like H*** on it? Vacuum up some of that “wasted” “subsidized” gas to heat your igloos?
If you really live in the North, then I am already subsidizing your lifestyle through the income tax break given to Northern residents.
It may have escaped your attention, but the simple fact is that, sometimes, flaring is the least-waste option for dealing with small amounts of solution gas in an oilfield. The cost of putting in a gathering system, compressors, scrubbers, etc., for that gas would exceed the total market value for that gas over the expected life of the field. At some point in the field’s development, there may be enough infrastructure in place to make it cost-effective to capture the gas, at which point it will be done.
Or maybe we could offer the oil companies subsidies to capture that “wasted” gas. Hell, we could also offer subsidies to pork packing plants to put the pigs’ squeals to use, too.
ROTFL
The internal report of the Spanish administration admits that the price of electricity has gone up, as well as the debt, due to the extra costs of solar and wind energy. Even the government numbers indicate that each green job created costs more than 2.2 traditional jobs
but…but…we have to DO something…dince global warming is not only unprecedented but accelerating..as this clearly shows…ummmm..well….it shows something…sorry gorzuki
http://cbullitt.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/ahev8sqcqaetzqn.jpg
Nof60: “… so nearly all of the PV production is over there where they can pollute and keep their production costs low.”
And they can’t make it work either for subsidized export markets. Half their industry has shut down in 2011. It’s about time for you to concede that PV has NO on-grid applications of any useful nature, anywhere, regardless of who makes them.
http://www.pv-tech.org/news/report_claims_50_of_chinese_solar_firms_have_ceased_production
“If the plant closes, what should the people who worked there do to feed their families and keep a roof over their heads?”
Typical progressive liberal thinking that has led to the stagation of our economy, and crippled that of the US. I suggest, N60, that you read some Hazlett and focus on his take on Bastiat’s “broken window” theory, and Secs IV and V.
Solar power would be dandy if it was self-sustaining without the need for massive subsidies to keep it afloat. These subsidies divert cash resources from the private sector (who have a better idea on how to invest for financial return) to the public sector where investment is for political return. The result: $500M on wastes like Solyndra, this boondoggle, and the $billions wasted on Ontario on McIdiot’s merry-go-round fans that are an eyesore on the countryside.
You cannot “create” wealth by transferring it from one sector to another, or from the rich to the poor. The only way to improve everyone’s lot is to reduce taxes and crushing regulation, and let the economy prosper, lifting all boats in the process. This was proven by Bush 43, Reagan and even Kennedy.
And the sad fact is true, as mentioned above, regarding putting people on welfare. When people ask me, “Hey, Heartless, if you want to lay off all those surplus government employees then they go on welfare, and how much better off are we?” Working through the numbers on a public sector employee raking in $100K with benefits, compared to what they’d make on welfare, and the ensuing lower tax burden, I say… “Much better off, thanks”
mhb23re
at gmail d0t calm
Seems to me that, an industry that produces solar electricity components shouldn’t need to buy their energy.
It’s simple:
1. Get government grants to start up with. That’s easy given all the grants that have been floating around.
2. Produce enough solar panels (or whatever) to generate electricity to operate the plant. Put them in the California desert and ship the power to LA. Use the proceeds to buy power in Idaho or wherever your plant is.
3. For that matter, produce enough solar panels to generate money to fund your manufacturing.
If the solar industry can’t do that, then something’s REALLY wrong. Like, they don’t have a business model. (At least, until oil reaches $250 a barrel.)
Of course, this could just be a shell company set up to bleed the U.S. of grant money…
All right, here’s the Hoku Haiku:
Solar panel scam.
Loss of public money does
not inspire light verse.