Debt Ceiling Debacle

71 Replies to “Debt Ceiling Debacle”

1. Davenport is actually correct, the “blame” for the current debt ceiling “crisis” goes squarely on the Tea Party.
   Except, Davenport being Davenport, she has misused two words. “Blame” is in truth more properly “credit” and “crisis” is more properly “farce”.
   The Tea Party is the only group currently saying that borrowing money to pay off INTEREST is insanity, and the Tea Party is the only group trying to stop it, to hold the government to only spending what they take in. Which is of course to their credit.
   The debt ceiling crisis is of course a farce, given the two years with no budget and still no announced plan from the Democrats or the POTUS. The purpose of the farce is to rid the Democrats AND the Republican leadership of the Tea Party, so they can get back to their Roller Derby show with one hand washing the other.
   As far as I can see, the grand plan of the US ruling class is to borrow tremendous amounts of money now, spend it all now, and then inflate the US dollar so they can pay it back at a massive discount. Like 30% to 50% discount.
   In this way their ability to tax is in effect extended to the whole world. Everyone who holds a US dollar pays a tax to the USA, as value is inflated away.
   This seems insane perhaps, until one stops and remembers that we have been through a round of this already. Its exactly what the Chretien Liberals did in the 1980s and what LBJ/Nixon/Ford/Carter did in the 1960s and 70’s.
   Remember friends, a 1964 Buick Riviera sold new for $4,375 list. A 1974 Buick Riviera cost $5,500 list even though manufacturing methods had advanced ten years. A 1984 Buick Riviera cost about $15,000 list, and was half the car of the ’74. Literally, it weighed nearly half as much.
   What’s a car worth this year? Wait five years, add a zero.

2. “despite the numbers suggesting that significant debt reduction is next to impossible without some kind of revenue increase, and despite the US already being among the lowest-taxed developed countries in the world”
   Davenport, here’s the problem with broad-brush statements like that.
   -The US is in fact the highest Corporate taxed in the world at 40% (OK anaemic Japan is about the same but now thanks to even a tax and spend guy like McGuinty our all-in tax rate in Canada is only 25%, as is the average OECD country; so the USA overtaxes its job producers by a longshot ).
   -The bottom half in the USA pay no Fed taxes. The top 5% carry the majority of the burden already at 60% and the Obamarx gang wants to hold them up for even higher taxs.
   In other words the US already has a heavily skewed redistributionist wealth system that the Obamarx gang wants to skew even more so everyone can be “equal”…we tried that in the USSR, it doesn’t work.
   Davenport, you are correct that the US needs “some kind of revenue increase”, However the only way to get that is for unemployment to go down from 9.2% and those folks start paying taxes from new jobs. Taxing those that create the jobs will not accomplish that; it will lead to the road to Serfdom.
   That’s what this debate is about:
   Davenport and Obama wanting to tax the job creators even more so as to have a more “equal” society OR a Tea Party to resist being dragged down that “equality” Road to Serfdom.

3. Phantom:
   Chretien was out of politics for half of the 80’s, and didn’t become PM until 1993. So I’m not sure what your point was.

4. Considering market speculators etc. are making a bundle over Obama’s fake financial crisis it makes me wonder does Obama have an offshore account with Soros????

5. Amnesty for all illegals and Barry is re-elected…guaranteed.

6. Nancy Pelosi was quoted as saying that the Republicans are “on the dark side”.
   When did insisting that one’s bills be paid take someone “to the dark side”?! The only person who would say something like this would be:
   – A spoiled 5 year old child
   – A gambling addict
   Bravo Nancy, you’re wrecking yet another generation with your irresponsible rhetoric!

7. Rubio is a brilliant speaker.
   Politically speaking, the so called “deal” is proof that Obama has moved to the center; as, without tax increases on the rich, the Left will go apocalyptic. This is similar to the Public Option debate on HC, as because BO and the Dems compromised (with themselves, but that’s too complex for the average voter to distinguish) making Obama a “centrist” in the eyes of the MSM.
   I suspect that ET’s meme of “buying votes” is true, as he will use this to shore-up the demos that she’s mentioned; so, Obama’s compromise on tax increases is his gambit to attract Independent voters. The question in my mind, is will this work? Who knows as I’m in the “echo chamber” that is Arizona, where the utterance of BO’s name gets average folks reaching for their concealed firearm. I’ve spoken to a few BO supporters (mostly blacks and women) who are very reluctant to voice any support for BO at this time. I’m curious if this is a result of being in the Red State “echo chamber”; or, if this sentiment carries across the majority of the States.
   I recall having the same doubts living in Saskatchewan wondering if support for the CPC would carry outside the west. If these two situations are analogous, perhaps I can reassess my statement “smart money’s on Obama”. I’m about 50/50 right now on re-election prospects.
   I suggest that Rick Perry will be the GOP candidate based on his governing record. That said, the question in my mind going into 2012 is: is ET’s theory regarding a ‘buy-off’ in conjunction with the ‘emotional campaign’ going to be enough to tip the scales of the debate from the GOP’s plan to run on economics? My gut tells me “no”, as the anti-Obama vote should be very motivated and could likely tip the scales in the GOPs favor. To use a Canadian analogy, I suspect that we could use the #’s that come from the early pre election votes as a barometer going into the election.
   Finally, it’s been my observation that the MSM meme that the TEA Party is “racist” has disappeared, as they now seem to only be Economic Terrorists and Morons which is a lot less damning in my POV.
   No matter which way you slice the pie, I don’t think anyone can make the argument that low taxes, cuts in spending and government, and a balanced budget is “radical”; whereas, the “racist” meme is circumstantial and difficult to disprove; and nobody wants to vote for a racist. This could be the most crucial aspect of the 2012 debate. Is a vote for the GOP a vote for racism? It the consensus answer is “no”, I think it’s a “boat race” and the GOP take the White House. Furthermore, if the tide goes in the GOP’s favor, I’m comfortable predicting that the GOP looks like it will win the WH and keep the House, the Dems will maintain the Senate. I said in 2009 that the Americans I suspect will be very weary of giving all three branches to any one party for the foreseeable future.
   One major political problem I see for Obama is the unemployment rates among Blacks. I recall seeing blacks lined-up for blocks, for hours, to cast a vote for Obama. I doubt we’ll see the same convictions and sacrifice of time made by this and other typically low turn-out demos this time. After all, they’re entitled, and this is a real time sacrifice of time.

8. One last thing…
   I’m so looking forward to the big par-tey on Barak’s birthday.
   “Go shorty, it’s you’re birthday” – and I don’t give a fcuk you can’t afford your birthday!

9. 1. “Yes We Can”
   2. “Change” versus “More of the Same”
   3. “Vote for Change”
   4. “Change We Can Believe In”
   5. “Our Time for Change”
   6. “It’s about Time. It’s about Change”
   7. “Stand for Change”
   8. “Organize for Change”
   9. “We are the change we’ve been looking for. Change can’t happen without you.”
   10. “I’m asking you to believe. Not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington . I’m asking you to believe in yours.”
   11. “A leader who can deliver change”
   12. “Change in America doesn’t start from the top down. It starts from the bottom up.”
   13. “Obama Momma”
   14. “Women for Obama”
   15. “Obama for America ”
   16. “A New Beginning”
   17. “Help me take back America ”
   18. “My President is Black”
   19. “Eight [years] is Enough”
   20. ” America , we cannot turn back. We cannot walk alone.”
   21. “We must pledge once more to walk into the future.”
   Ha ha ha ha……..

10. Knight 99
    Some things never change…

11. CNN.com Poll result (on-line voting):
    Quick vote
    Which party deserves more blame for the U.S. debt-ceiling standoff?
    Republicans
    56%
    133348
    No difference
    26%
    62508
    Democrats
    18%
    43897
    Total votes: 239753
    This is not a scientific poll

12. REALITY!!
    ( http://my.firedoglake.com/iflizwerequeen/2011/05/16/how-about-a-little-truth-about-what-the-majority-want-for-health-care/ )
    ( Gov. Peter Shumlin: Real Healthcare reform — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yFUbkVCsZ4 )
    ( Health Care Budget Deficit Calculator — http://www.cepr.net/calculators/hc/hc-calculator.html )
    ( Briefing: Dean Baker on Boosting the Economy by Saving Healthcare http://t.co/fmVz8nM )
    START NOW!
    As you all know. Had congress passed a single-payer or government-run robust Public Option CHOICE! available to everyone on day one, our economy and jobs would have taken off like a rocket. And still will. Single-payer would be best. But a government-run robust Public Option CHOICE! that can lead to a single-payer system is the least you can accept. It’s not about competing with for-profit healthcare and for-profit health insurance. It’s about replacing it with Universal Healthcare Assurance. Everyone knows this now.
    The message from the midterm elections was clear. The American people want real healthcare reform. They want that individual mandate requiring them to buy private health insurance abolished. And they want a government-run robust public option CHOICE! available to everyone on day one. And they want it now.
    They want Drug re-importation, and abolishment, or strong restrictions on patents for biologic and prescription drugs. And government controlled and negotiated drug and medical cost. They want back control of their healthcare system from the Medical Industrial Complex. And they want it NOW!
    THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL NOT, AND MUST NOT, ALLOW AN INDIVIDUAL MANDATE TO STAND WITHOUT A STRONG GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION CHOICE! AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE.
    For-profit health insurance is extremely unethical, and morally repugnant. It’s as morally repugnant as slavery was. And few if any decent Americans are going to allow them-self to be compelled to support such an unethical and immoral crime against humanity.
    This is a matter of National and Global security. There can be NO MORE EXCUSES.
    Further, we want that corrupt, undemocratic filibuster abolished. Whats the point of an election if one corrupt member of congress can block the will of the people, and any legislation the majority wants. And do it in secret. Give me a break people.
    Also, unemployment healthcare benefits are critically needed. But they should be provided through the Medicare program at cost, less the 65% government premium subsidy provided now to private for profit health insurance.
    Congress should stop wasting hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money on private for profit health insurance subsidies. Subsidies that cost the taxpayer 10x as much or more than Medicare does. Private for profit health insurance plans cost more. But provide dangerous and poorer quality patient care.
    Republicans: GET RID OF THE INDIVIDUAL MANDATE.
    Democrats: ADD A ROBUST GOVERNMENT-RUN PUBLIC OPTION TO HEALTHCARE REFORM.
    This is what the American people are shouting at you. Both parties have just enough power now to do what the American people want. GET! IT! DONE! NOW!
    If congress does not abolish the individual mandate. And establish a government-run public option CHOICE! before the end of 2011. EVERY! member of congress up for reelection in 2012 will face strong progressive pro public option, and anti-individual mandate replacement candidates.
    Strong progressive pro “PUBLIC OPTION” CHOICE! and anti-individual mandate volunteer candidates should begin now. And start the process of replacing any and all members of congress that obstruct, or fail to add a government-run robust PUBLIC OPTION CHOICE! before the end of 2011.
    We need two or three very strong progressive volunteer candidates for every member of congress that will be up for reelection in 2012. You should be fully prepared to politically EVISCERATE EVERY INCUMBENT that fails or obstructs “THE PUBLIC OPTION”. And you should be willing to step aside and support the strongest pro “PUBLIC OPTION” candidate if the need arises.
    ASSUME CONGRESS WILL FAIL and SELLOUT again. So start preparing now to CUT THEIR POLITICAL THROATS. You can always step aside if they succeed. But only if they succeed. We didn’t have much time to prepare before these past midterm elections. So the American people had to use a political shotgun approach. But by 2012 you will have a scalpel.
    Congress could have passed a robust government-run public option during it’s lame duck session. They knew what the American people wanted. They already had several bills on record. And the house had already passed a public option. Departing members could have left with a truly great accomplishment. And the rest of you could have solidified your job before the 2012 elections.
    President Obama, you promised the American people a strong public option available to everyone. And the American people overwhelmingly supported you for it. Maybe it just wasn’t possible before. But it is now.
    Knock heads. Threaten people. Or do whatever you have to. We will support you. But get us that robust public option CHOICE! available to everyone on day one before the end of 2011. Or We The People Of The United States will make the past midterm election look like a cake walk in 2012. And it will include you.
    We still have a healthcare crisis in America. With hundreds of thousands dieing needlessly every year in America. And a for profit medical industrial complex that threatens the security and health of the entire world. They have already attacked the world with H1N1 killing thousands, and injuring millions. And more attacks are planned for profit, and to feed their greed.
    Spread the word people.
    Progressives, prepare the American peoples scalpels. It’s time to remove some politically diseased tissues.
    God Bless You my fellow human beings. I’m proud to be one of you. You did good.
    See you on the battle field.
    Sincerely
    jacksmith – WorkingClass 🙂

13. Breaking news;
    Obana has pulled the USA out of the debt quagmire. He and O.J. will be heading a taskforce to find who is responsible for the quagmire.

14. Phantom – brilliant plan! And yet (and I’m no fancy big-city economist) I can’t help wondering whether rendering the U.S. dollar worthless might not involve some kind of downside in the long term…

15. KevinB, I see that I screwed up my date, you’re right of course. But have you forgotten the $0.75 Canadian dollar of the 1990’s? The Liberals did cut spending, and they cut it more than the CPC is currently proposing. But they also devalued the Canadian dollar, which is how they paid off as much debt as they did. Invisible tax.
    Regan tax cuts managed to stave off the stagflation of Carter, remember that? Set the stage for the boom that just ended. Now we are back to borrow and devalue as the official policy of the USA.
    Black Mamba is of course correct, the downside of the plan is in twenty years the industrial economy of the USA will look like the industrial economy of Canada does right now: Hollowed out. Factories closed, jobs fled overseas. F-ed, in other words.
    The whole east coast and California will resemble Detroit. Post industrial ruination with bums living in cardboard boxes. Here’s a link to bunny huggers being all upset that homeless people are eating ducks, geese, fish and turtles in a Brooklyn park and badgering the cops into ticketing the bums.
    http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34/3/dtg_poachersbusted_2011_08_06_bk.html
    But it will be -great- if you have a government job, your pension will be indexed to inflation. Go Dems.

16. “Last year the Great Socialist TRIPLED the final Bush deficit. Yeah, tripled it..It’s been proven – over and over again – reducing taxes increases government revenue: Bush II, Reagan, even JFK proved it.”
    Obama’s main contribution to the deficit was through TEMPORARY stimulus spending to fight off the worse of the recession. Bush’s main contribution was through an attempted PERMANENT reduction of tax revenue through tax cuts for the rich as well as an UNFUNDED prescription drug plan for seniors (and a couple of wars). The tax cuts alone, because they represent lost revenue every year from here on out, has singlehandedly contributed more to the deficit than any Obama admin policy (nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24editorial_graph2.html?ref=sunday) while — wait for it — also failing to stimulate any lasting economic growth (economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/were-the-bush-tax-cuts-good-for-growth).
    “Yeah, Dopeyport, raising taxes in a brutal recession is always a recipe for success, isn’t it”
    And cutting social security is much wiser, huh? Besides, considering that fewer than 2% of tax returns in the top 2 income brackets are filed by small business owners, letting those high-income tax cuts expire (a good idea) will have a far different effect than raising taxes on everyone (a bad idea). You need to let this romantic notion that the wealthy use PERSONAL tax cuts to “invest” in their job-creating businesses. They don’t, because by and large, they don’t own their own small/mid-size businesses.
    “Before posting more tripe, davenport, why not read a bit of economic theory.”
    There’s a reason why economics is known as the dismal science. Maybe you should read less theory and start looking at more real world data.
    “davenport – how did Obama compromise? He said, before the Cut, Cap and Balance that he would veto it. That’s hardly a discussion or compromise. Equally, the Democrats tabled all the House bills (that had been passed); they refused to debate or discuss them. Just threw them out. How is that negotiation?”
    Um, isn’t it obvious that a floor vote isn’t exactly the place for negotiation? That happens behind the scenes, after one side or another rejects the other side’s proposal. Everyone — except apparently you — knows that a “thrown out” proposal merely forms that side’s opening position in a true negotiation.
    “Not sure if anybody had mentioned this before, but Senate majority leader Harry Reid agreed to a package that had no tax increases.”
    Which Obama has also signaled his support for. In other words, they’re agreeing to spending cuts without tax increases — basically everything the Republicans wanted.. And ET STILL thinks it’s the DEMOCRATS who’re refusing to compromise.
    “The US is in fact the highest Corporate taxed in the world at 40%”
    I knew someone would raise this. First of all, I was talking about personal tax burdens, not corporate ones. Second, that’s just the official posted rate. Yet there are so many loopholes in the bloated tax code that most corporations pay far less (some of the most powerful manage to occasionally pay zero).
    “The bottom half in the USA pay no Fed taxes.”
    Ever ask why? It’s because the US is the most unequal society in the developed world, such that “the bottom half” earn so little in their min wage jobs that to tax them would do nothing but lead to their further impoverishment. Yeah, the working poor — THEY’RE the problem.

17. Indiana – yes, I’m hoping for Rick Perry as well. With Rubio as VP. That’s quite the team.
    Jobs and the economy will be the key. Obama will run as he always does, on and only on, emotion. Can he run on Hope? Heh. Or fear. He uses both.
    His big threat now, in His mind, is the Tea Party because they represent independent, individual, free, thinking Americans. Obama doesn’t do well with people who can think. He relies on people who want a Messiah and prefer that govt support them.
    Remember, Obama and the Democrats could have dealt with the debt ceiling way, way back last fall, before the Nov elections. They didn’t; they didn’t dare bring up the issue of a looming debt and default during the fall campaign. They lost the House anyway.
    BUT – they could have still deal with it in the Lame Duck December session; they refused to do so. Instead, they waited, to the very last minute, with ONE purpose: to vilify the GOP and the Tea Party. That was the only reason for the last minute deal.
    Obama has part of what he wanted: the deal lasts until after his re-election (or hopefully, being kicked out)…but..the GOP have to take charge of the whole thing, as even the ‘no new taxes’..is suspect in any Obama Deal. Obama lies. All the time. He has no respect for deals or words; he has no integrity, no principles, no honour. He has only his desire for Control and Power.
    So- the GOP have to keep control of the reins as this next election runs its course.
    And – watch out for the next Obama crisis; he’ll manufacture yet another one, with the same agenda: frighten the electorate; blame it on the Tea Party – that’s Obama’s big threat – Americans who can think for themselves and don’t want a soviet state.

18. Davenporty said: “In other words, they’re agreeing to spending cuts without tax increases — basically everything the Republicans wanted…”
    Jeeze Davenport, do you have to be such a useful idiot all the time?
    They agreed to a “trillion dollar spending cut” over ten years, and a 900 billion debt increase -THIS- year.
    Did you know that 900 billion is almost the same as a trillion Davenport? Do you know that the interest on 900 billion at 1% over ten years is (multiply, scratch, scribble) 90 billion bucks?
    Oh and by the way, that “trillion dollar cut” is not an actual reduction in the total spending of the USA by a billion bucks over ten years. That’s a BASELINE BUDGETING “cut”. Meaning the SCHEDULED INCREASE in spending over the next ten years is supposed to be reduced by a trillion bucks.
    Oh and by the way, what’s a trillion bucks going to be worth after ten years of inflation Davenport? The decimal point has moved two and a half times since 1964 as per my previous comment, a luxury car that sold for $4,400 bucks in 1984 would sell for roughly $80,000 now.
    Its f-ing Roller Derby! They agreed to do NOTHING. The best “compromise” the Republican leadership and the Democrats could come up with, my dear Usefull Idiot, is to fool the rubes one more time. Working together to change absolutely nothing whatsoever.
    Which truthfully is a great victory compared to the Democrat proposal of tax-America-into-poverty-and-blow-it-all-on-beer-and-skittles.
    Do you -want- to be poor, Davenport?

19. Well said Phantom @ 10:37.
    It appears that at least one commenter above would prefer the failed Soviet system.

20. Thanks Ken. I know I shouldn’t engage these doorknobs, but when I see such PHREAKING stupidity in disguise as an argument… can’t shut up.

21. Prepare for off the charts inflation inevitably leading to famine within the next 3 years, if not sooner. We are all in for some very hard times ahead.