As a final post at the tail end of my guest blogging gig I would like to share this video I put together from a discussion yesterday between Dick Morris and Dennis Miller. Most of it is focused on America’s Failed Education System but I think there is direct relevance to what’s going on here in Canada. It seems that barely a week goes by when we don’t hear of one provincial teachers’ union or another doing something that is clearly not in the best interest of the students. In the interview, Morris pulls no punches in his disdain for American teachers’ unions and provides example after example why.
Related: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie proposes forfeiting raises and losing tenure for the worst unionized teachers. My opinion: A good start but in the REAL world NO ONE should have tenure.
A big thanks to Kate for the opportunity I was given and much thanks to all of you, the regular participants here at SDA. The conversations were most enlightening and I learned a lot. A pretty good way to start 2011, I think!
The reality is that genetics and culture are far more important than teachers and schools. Just look the Fraser Institute’s school rankings. The top schools are self-selecting private schools (who throw out underachievers and only take smart kids) or public schools in wealthy white neighbourhoods.
My kids’ Grade 3 teacher is no great shakes but she has one of the highest class scores on the Grade 3 provincial exams in the province. Why? Cause her class is full of smart white and asian kids who study more in Grade 3 than I did in 3 years of law school. An illiterate homeless guy could teach their class how to roll joints all year and the kids would still get 75% on the exams.
I feel for parents with kids in schools where there is no accountability but the reality is that there are so many choices now in terms of charter schools, private schools, homeschooling, etc. that if you are that sure the public teachers are ruining your kid then you need to be accountable and send your kid elsewhere.
An interesting scenario for the “you could teach ’em if you really wanted to” crowd.
Our Senior High math teacher went on mat leave. The board had two choices for a replacement: a) masters degree in math, 7 years experience, high salary; b) US trained grade 6 teacher, 6 months experience, low salary.
Guess which one our non-union, run like a business, operation chose.
> Why is that? Because they’re on the road every
> bloody evening for hockey/dance and all day on weekends.
My kids: 3 days a week gymnastics, 1 day (will be 2 starting next week) air cadets, 1 day hockey, 1 day guitar lessons, riding horses and shooting clays on the weekends. Plus lots other activities whenever we have a minute.
These boys are over-achievers at our home school, studying ahead of their age. It’s how you motivate and teach them. Blaming others is easy.
> therefore we need to run it
> like a business
Excellent idea. One of the first things you do in a private enterprise (one that is focused on results) is get rid of unprofitable customers, ones who are more trouble than they are worth. Perhaps we can extend this principle to education by getting rid of the students who are more trouble than they are worth? Also, can public education charge more for a higher quality product? That’s how the business world works — you don’t pay the same for a Lexus as you do for a Lada.
Of course, all this means that many children from “protected” demographic communities will have their arses booted out the door, forthwith and those remaining possibly having higher quality education priced beyond their means. Good luck with that.
> These boys are over-achievers
> at our home school
Yeah. HOME SCHOOL. Where you’re giving your kids individualized attention, and where you’re making sure assignments are completed and tests written. Believe me, you’re the type of parent my wife would like to deal with.
“Guess which one our non-union, run like a business, operation chose.”
Chris I’m assuming you are the same anti-business type that academia suffers from, just guessing your school chose the low cost candidate.
But that proves my point. We want choice, and we’ll keep choosing until we get it right. Private schools that I’m familiar with not only are stacked with “masters degree in math, 7 years experience” many have PhD’s and the overall cost structure is lower than the mediocrity we get in the “government schools”.
We want more choice! And we don’t want to have to pay for “government schools” as well as the private schools, we want portability, vouchers.
Finally there is lots of evidence that better teachers have an enormous impact on outcomes. It is quite possible that really good teachers are underpaid. So let’s have choice and let’s run it like a meritocracy, just like we do in the real world. Let the school Chris works for fail just like any other poorly run business.
Having had my kids in many types of school systems here is what I find the overall arching goals are:
1. private expensive tough academic schools: political leaders, head of global NGOs, business experience, IVY league admission etc
2. public schools (separate or public): good citizens with skills/knowledge required for a “good” job
3. private cheaper school with nontraditional teaching methods: love for learning,”mastery” of basic concepts (ie in math, grammar), self-control, global citizens
I think we need to ask ourselves what is an education for? One could argue all these schools were to a less or greater degree on the left because the underlying assumption of school is to make us a compliant citizen of the state. That is why home-schooling is such a threat and why I believe the best learning occurs at home or in an apprenticeship-like environment (the closest of which was the non-traditional school without it’s homework and tests)
Just my 2 cents
Good work Robert. You held the fort with lots of interesting posts.
I too have wrestled with the dilemma: how do you change things that you perceive are wrong? Why did I continue to work within a system that I believed was flawed? Well, I spoke my piece even when I was occasionally ostracized for it. Did the best job I could every day. Didn’t take out my discontent on the students. Maintained honesty with students and parents even when it would have been in my better interest to fudge. Supported colleagues who needed encouragement. For the most part, I’m fairly convinced that it was good thing that I chose to be a teacher. Did I sell my soul for a paycheque? No more than most people and I think I delivered value for the money.
The matter of a career, life choices, making a living…these are not quite as cut and dried as we would wish. I stood on my principles several times in my career. Each time, they cost me. Once it cost me my job. Yet I would do it again exactly the same. But when you’re facing unemployment and maybe being blacklisted because you’re tagged as an inconvenient employee, it’s a fairly sobering moment. I doubt that anyone who would counsel “quitting” as the answer to dealing with an imperfect system would find it so easy to do if they were faced with the prospect. And anybody who believes the union would stick up for you and that the Board wouldn’t find a way to dismiss a teacher they didn’t like is truly naive. They may put up with incompetents who don’t rock the boat, but they won’t put up with someone that makes them look bad.
But the notion of the roles of unions, how much power they should be allowed, what negative effects do they have on society…those are all valid and interesting questions.
I’m not anti business in the least. However, making mandatory services private is not an effective solution. As has been pointed out, private organizations tend to rid themselves of unprofitable clients and operations. In a system where the service is mandatory you either can’t remove unprofitable clients or you pool them in one place.
As an example my wife runs a private day care. She can and has removed clients that cause problems. Ones who don’t pay, or whose children are a danger to others. She also, interestingly, does not take infants anymore as they are too labour intensive. In effect she minimizes the damage the poor clients can do to the good ones.
In the school system, the opposite is true. The poor clients not only are allowed to affect those around them, but they also take up a disproportionate amount of resources.
As our society marches on and broken families, substance abuse, apathy, entitlement, self esteem before accomplishment, and good old fashioned laziness become the norm, more and more poor clients will rule the roost.
> The poor clients not only are allowed to
> affect those around them, but they also
> take up a disproportionate amount of
> resources.
Hehehe. I nearly caused a riot at a school board meeting when I put up my hand and asked if our division had resources in place for “gifted” students? No. “Why not?” Was snappily told by an ‘uber-mom’ that the gifted students take care of themselves and the limited resources were required for special needs students. “If resources are so limited, shouldn’t we be expending them where we’ll see the greatest return on investment? You don’t train a paraplegic to run a marathon, right?”
And that’s when all hell broke loose. 🙂
@nomdeblog, The one thing you are assuming with the vouchers is that the best schools would be open to everyone. That is simply not the case. The best private and charter schools are very selective about the kids they take cause they need to keep classes small, grades high and university admissions up to pitch themselves to people like you and me. I can tell you right now, they aren’t going to take struggling students from poor neighbourhoods unless the kid has a 160 IQ. Let me put it another way: in Calgary, you don’t pay $30,000 to send your kid to Webber Academy so he can go to school with the black kids from Bowness; you send them to Webber to get away from those kids. The parents at the best schools would never stand for admitting voucher kids from middle class or poor neighbourhoods.
So, the voucher kids will all end up where my kids go to school and what will be the result? The scores for the school will go down, there will be more discipline problems, the good teachers will leave, all of us parents will move our kids to a private school, and the problem from Public School No.14 will be moved to Public School No. 78.
There are always going to be stupid kids and cultures that don’t value education. Those people have to go to school somewhere. Those schools will suck no matter what teachers you bring in cause the parents and kids are stupid and don’t care. I do agree though that vouchers would at least make our educators accountable and force them to try to do better. It would also save some average students who could benefit from improved teaching environments. But it ain’t a panacea.
The Ontario public system needs to be turned inside out. My kids have had some very good teachers, and some extremely mediocre ones. My girl’s school has a fantastic principal, and my son’s is run like a politically correct gulag. I have had teachers tell me that they are simply not allowed to fail students, regardless of performance, it just isn’t “allowed”. The unions and government administration have absolutely ruined the system. Constant threat of strikes and a ridiculous tenure based system (should a grade school teacher pay scale go up to $100K?? for 8 months work). 12-13 “PD” days a year, and substitute teachers brought in so teachers can “catch up” on reports cards (after a grueling 4 hours/day of actual class time)? Not to mention the disruption of classes when teachers cash in their “sick days” to make sure they use them all, and from my (3 kids) experience, most do.
Yes, there are some difficult students, but there were when I was in school too, and yes class sizes are large, as they were when I was in school.
One thing I agree upon is that the curriculum is a joke. The “powers-that-be” in the ivory towers in Toronto have created a curriculum that many parents don’t understand, never mind the students (or teachers, for that matter). There are Grade 7-8 teachers that are not equipped by their General Arts degrees to teach the math curriculum anymore. I have heard of teachers taking stress leave because they can’t handle the curriculum, they’re just not qualified.
Rant Off….
BRAVO, Husband of a teacher @ 11:02 AM!
Everything you say about the roadblocks to actual, best practice teaching is all too true.
And, despite the bad teachers out there—the system contributes to that—anyone who thinks teaching’s an easy job: think again.
Rita @ 11:44 AM: BRAVA!
EVERYTHING you say mirrors my experience.
You write, “I remember telling my vice-principal, that if admin exerted as much effort into helping me be a good teacher, as they expended coaching me in better ways to lie to students and parents about their achievement, everyone would be better off.” YOU ARE MY KIND OF TEACHER!!
You end with: “So while we would like to target the bad teachers out there–and there are some–I think it’s a lot more complex an issue than many would like to believe. If we’re going to rate teachers, then I think we should rate the administrators, the parents and the politicians too–because they all contribute to the problems in education. Today, a teacher is not allowed to discipline a student, not allowed to give a student a failing mark, cannot refuse to admit a psychopath to the classroom. Judges sentence young offenders, including violent ones, to “school”. I would challenge anyone out there to do a decent job–at least a decent job as identified by all the teacher bashers–under those conditions. And yet, very often, teachers do.” DITTO.
(And, mojo, to call teachers mechanics is quite an insult. Please listen to what teachers like rita and I are saying. Thanks.)
Indiana, with all due respect, I NEVER do a “crappy job” when I’m teaching. I need to work and I do a fine job, despite the obstacles. There are a lot of teachers in my position. One shouldn’t tar and feather all of us.
Let me clarify a few things…
Chris
“That assumption is that every student is an empty vessel just yearning to be filled.”
No I’m not, you are projecting again. You are assuming that I am assuming that these things cannot be taken into account. For example, if black kids need to be measured to a difference standard than Asian kids of their age group; then black kids should be grouped with kids at their performance level, not by age, but I digress. Grading students as equal to their peers when they are not is dishonest, and individual teachers like the ones hear are compliant. Period! Is it the greatest crime in history? No; but it’s uncouth to expect me to ignore that which is right in front of my face, and it’s crazy to expect me not to object to such a system and those that are compliant (for whatever reasons) when I’m paying for it!
“That’s what the kids tell my wife when she asks them why they flopped an exam or didn’t turn in homework. “We got home at 2am from a game in ______ and I only got 3 hours sleep!” or “I couldn’t do homework last week because we’re getting ready for that dance competition.””
Let me break something to you and your wife Chris, and this is something that a teacher should know from experience: kids are full of iSht most of the time. For example, my eldest daughter missed curfew so I had to go and get her. She wanted to stay awhile longer and missed curfew because she heard her mother and I had had an argument. She insisted that she didn’t like when we fought, and she was justified in being late. Perhaps she is right, and her mother and I argue too much; but, it’s beside the point. The bottom line is, the brat wanted to stay at the party; she was having fun. The rest is BS! There is always time to study, and kids that are ‘struggling’ are not struggling because of a late night or two. They are struggling because they haven’t got it done though-out the year. A hard working student shouldn’t need a great performance on any particular test if they’ve got their iSht done throughout the semester. Surely you and your wife are aware of this. So why the excuses? Why the naivety?
“In a system where the service is mandatory you either can’t remove unprofitable clients or you pool them in one place.”
Exactly, that’s what I’m saying! If the current system of grouping kids by age is the problem(which you appear to be suggesting), then do fcuking something about it instead of arguing to the contrary for the sake of self preservation. If teachers (collectively) are unwilling to do what is necessary for the benefit of all students(and the bureaucrats are teachers), because of some liberal moral, then they should be removed from the positions that have authority in these matters.
Sorry Chris, this comment was intended for HoT.
HoT
“That’s what the kids tell my wife when she asks them why they flopped an exam or didn’t turn in homework. “We got home at 2am from a game in ______ and I only got 3 hours sleep!” or “I couldn’t do homework last week because we’re getting ready for that dance competition.””
Let me break something to you and your wife *HoT*, and this is something that a teacher should know from experience: kids are full of iSht most of the time. For example, my eldest daughter missed curfew so I had to go and get her. She wanted to stay awhile longer and missed curfew because she heard her mother and I had had an argument. She insisted that she didn’t like when we fought, and she was justified in being late. Perhaps she is right, and her mother and I argue too much; but, it’s beside the point. The bottom line is, the brat wanted to stay at the party; she was having fun. The rest is BS! There is always time to study, and kids that are ‘struggling’ are not struggling because of a late night or two. They are struggling because they haven’t got it done though-out the year. A hard working student shouldn’t need a great performance on any particular test if they’ve got their iSht done throughout the semester. Surely you and your wife are aware of this. So why the excuses? Why the naivety?
“Also, can public education charge more for a higher quality product?”
Now you get it! But first we must get proper value for our $$ for what we’re getting right now. As someone said above, it’s likely that good teachers are under paid. What I’m saying is that I’m certain that many teachers are over paid! If we look at $$ input, and results output, the $$ input is disproportionate relative to competitors abroad. We don’t need teachers that are doing a ‘good job’ if it is falling on deaf ears. We need ‘good teachers’ teaching to a captive audience. We can pay baby sitters a lot less to babysit students that don’t wish to learn; but, providing high skilled labor for low skilled requirements is stupid! Just like police working radar is stupid! Someone else can do that job for cheaper; but, it’s all about union jobs. Isn’t it?
I agree with your 3:08 statement.
“that if you are that sure the public teachers are ruining your kid then you need to be accountable and send your kid elsewhere.”
This is what we did, but there were not the options available you speak of. After years of searching for a program that would challenge my daughter, we finally lucked-out and put her in a ‘late beginners immersion’ class that was accelerated for obvious reasons, and students were pre-screened. Now it’s not that I was gung-ho about a second language, but I was gung-ho about grouping my daughter with other strong students, and I was gung-ho about how motivated the teachers and principal at this school were about the program. Imagine that, a school that believes in success, strives for success, and reaches success. It’s all about the teachers!
Ummm, Indiana, I didn’t say anything about the excuses regarding sports.
As to grouping students by age vs. ability, again I’m not arguing that either.
I am arguing that it is our current culture and society that is the root of these problems. You know, the “nothing’s my fault” “everyone’s a victim”, “I have my rights” society.
Getting rid of unions or telling teachers to shut up and teach or else quit will do absolutely nothing to help the situation.
I know you’re paying for the system. Why don’t you run for school trustee and change it instead of ranting on the internet?
As to my conscience, I do my job exactly as outlined by the provincial curriculum and then some. I follow the directives of my employers, the clients, and my supervisors and directors.
I may not always agree with their decisions, but much like a cop who sees his collar continuously returned to the street by the courts, I continue to do my job to the very best of my abilities.
If that makes me in your eyes dishonest, unscrupulous, and a liar so be it.
Until we as a society start to view education as a way for the individual to work toward a better life and not just one of a series of rights and entitlements, we will continue to see poorer and poorer results.
Good teaching – hell, GREAT teaching -can never, EVER make up for sh*tty ‘let’s blame the system because they are handy and because we can’ parenting.
You want to know why so many – too many – kids are lousy academics and underachieving students? Don’t look at the teacher. Look inside the home.
There are many things wrong with the education of students and it doesn’t always relate to the teachers or the unions. If you have students with poor behavioral or work ethics and parents who don’t care, it makes a willing and able teacher’s job incredibly difficult.
I am not forgiving or excusing teachers, unions or school boards. I am merely pointing out another facet in a complex problem.
As for teachers, unions and school boards, it really is about protecting the bottom line. If one truly had an insight into the nepotism and graft in schools, you would home-school your kids. Indeed, I feel that home-schooling is often a scathing commentary on how schools and teachers are not inspiring assurance in parents. Why should a parent trust a teacher who comes in at eight, leaves at three and reads from a book without even the slightest concern for the students? What makes it more biting is that the unions would back this teacher and not defend a teacher who really works hard and has a problem.
As I said, this problem is very complex and there are many things wrong which could be discussed. Unions are just one part of the problem.
My daughter the professional student loved her Profs at Mount Royal in Calgary. She said every one of them loved teaching. Calgary’s new mayor no exception.
She is now at the UofS. No comparison to dedication and ability. Some are good and some..well.
rita
“But when you’re facing unemployment and maybe being blacklisted because you’re tagged as an inconvenient employee, it’s a fairly sobering moment. I doubt that anyone who would counsel “quitting” as the answer to dealing with an imperfect system would find it so easy to do if they were faced with the prospect.”
I get it. But this is no reason to expect me to accept that my kids and I get inferior service in a system “I believed was flawed” because you need your job. Someone not long ago commented that ‘they receive way more in CPP payments than they paid-in over a long period'(paraphrasing). Once again, even though it’s loony of me to expect such a person (conservative in this case) would send the over payments back; I just can’t accept it. Especially from a conservative that calls for austerity, and accountability.
Everyone
Okay I get it, there’s nothing you can do about it, and we should shut-up; and absolutely none of you are the ‘bad teachers’; nor are you the ‘system’. YOU, are simply innocent by-standards who happen to collect a check. It’s someone else’s fault; GWB I think, or liberalism, or broken homes, or the union; but it’s definitely not YOU (or your wife).
All of that said, bygones; and I reserve the right to be wrong.
> It’s all about the teachers!
No, it’s all about the parents. The success you’ve experienced is due to your rejecting the status quo and seeking out optimum conditions for your child. You also set the same high standards for your children as well, which is 90% of the battle right there.
My daughter was having trouble with math last year. We didn’t go in and wag our fingers at the teacher and tell her how she wasn’t rising to the occasion, we simply asked, “what can we do?”
That turned out to be buying some books the teacher recommended, taking the practice exercises she gave us, turning off the TV more, limiting her computer a bit more, and sitting down and doing worksheets with her for hours upon hours until both the kid and the parents were grumpy as hell. This year? She’s on the honour roll.
I am the parent and the buck always stops with me. ALWAYS. Blaming others is a lefty tactic. Shame on you.
“Until we as a society start to view education as a way for the individual to work toward a better life and not just one of a series of rights and entitlements, we will continue to see poorer and poorer results.”
Arrrggg!
Chris, it’s the schools and teachers that are perpetuating this very garbage. Once again, where’s the individual’s responsibility?
Also, check my correction above re: sports excuses.
Also, I haven’t called anyone a liar.(I think)
done.
If you want to retain a brain so you will be equipped to think and make decicions that will be in your best interest. Drop out of school as early as possible.
Take some menial jobs and learn how to work and how to live of meager wages.
When you decide what you really want to do with your life, get that specific training.
Everything else you need to know about life you will have learned when you were working poor. That is the greatest teacher of all.
We live to about age 90 now, so there is no big rush to ‘get on with your life’. Your life will change more than once during your time here, if you are not burdened with government political correct brain washing, you will have a much better chance of success in your life.
Today’s teachers are the exclusive products of the educational industry … they have nothing of value to teach you.
> kids are full of iSht most of the time
Dude. Small rural community. We all know who is in hockey, who is in dance, when they played, when they danced, and how many squares of TP so-and-so used the last time they evacuated their bowels.
What irks my wife is that parents who are willing to put 20 or more hours a week into running kids to sports can’t put 20 minutes per week into making sure that Johnny and Sally are doing their homework and turning in assignments. Then they CRAP on her during P/T interviews because she’s not “doing enough”. Excuse me?
The point of extra-curricular activities is that they are EXTRA, or “in addition to”. Getting a good education comes first. Once that’s underway, by all means, add more to the plate and keep the kid busy, but don’t let the “self-esteem” building exercises get in the way of true academics. First things first.
The board sets policy. Period. There’s the Public Schools Act and there’s the Provincial curriculum, but the board sets policy.
If you want your child’s school to set different policies, run for the board. School boards are not teachers, nor are they teachers’ friends.
“it’s the schools and teachers that are perpetuating this very garbage. Once again, where’s the individual’s responsibility?”
This very garbage is called community standards. It’s what the community wants. It may not be what you want. A friend of ours is trying to get the K4 teacher fired because the school is trying to teach her son to stay on task. Mom feels that making a child sit a do work or wait quietly until it’s their turn is where fat kids come from.
Individual responsibility? It’s yours and you’ve taken it and so have your children. That is how an education system should work. Home and school as a team.
PS Correction noted, and dishonest was used not liar, sorry.
“I am the parent and the buck always stops with me. ALWAYS. Blaming others is a lefty tactic. Shame on you.”
WoT & HoT and others
Sheesh, for teachers, many of you have comprehension issues.
This is not a thread about poor parenting, broken homes and root causes. This thread is about WHAT IS WRONG WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION. So your argument that it’s ‘the parent’s fault’ is a non starter.
When you get rid of this misdirection, and Red Herring, what are you left with? You are left with ‘too many of these kids are unreachable’. Fine, but my position doesn’t waiver, it’s still: If the official teachers position is ‘we can’t teach these kids’ then why are we paying you to teach them?
I’ve not once blamed the teachers for anything but their own actions. If a student is unreachable, then that’s what the evaluation should say! And we should quit paying people to do an impossible job.
Go back to my first comment where I said: Conflict of Interest.
Now would someone tell me that this isn’t the case?
Now, I’m going home.
I don’t blame unions exclusively, the women folk have taken control of our educational system and turned the halls of higher learning into some kind of metrosexual anti-male indoctornation program. Ask youself this question: What teachers did you most admire when you were in school? Mine were all male teachers, the one’s I admired.
Streaminlinig of public school pupils by ability and intelligence, school vouchers, home-schooling, the eventual abolition of high-school, and the liquidation of all Teachers Unions.
I can cobble together a newsletter if there are any takers…
Streamlining…
Indiana Homez: “This is not a thread about poor parenting, broken homes and root causes. This thread is about WHAT IS WRONG WITH PUBLIC EDUCATION.”
Well Indiana, what’s wrong with PUBLIC education has EVERYTHING to do with “poor parenting, broken homes and root causes”. Hello-o-o-! How can “root causes” not be included in this discussion? The best teachers can sometimes “turn a sow’s ear into a silk purse”, but it’s an uphill battle and not an everyday occurrence.
The Charter has everything to do with teachers’ almost obliterated authority. Try doing this job without it: the courts constantly give students more rights. (Check out R. v. A.M., 2008.) So, go after the politicians. Go after the board bureaucrats. As I said, I need my job: I have family obligations. Your suggestion that I and other committed teachers are in it only for the money—and that getting money for the difficult job we do is a sell-out—is an insult of astonishing proportions.
I know that you’re very angry with the public education system: so am I. But your refusal to support such principled teachers here as rita, chris, HofaT is disturbing. In fact, I believe you’ve treated a lot of us—the best in a bad situation—with an unbecoming and undeserved mean spiritedness and disdain. I’m shocked.
The first place that all of the problems come from is the curriculem and the pedagogy. I’ve been umemployed for the past year after missing most of the first several years of my youngest’s schooling working stupidly long hours. I have 21 child years of dealing with teachers in a bad school (poor neighborhood.)and a highschool. Small sample perhaps but the teachers have all been great. The board and the MOE however are morons of the worst kind. Arogant, inflexible ignorant and obscene apparatchiks who all have PhDs from the “best” schools where they learn only to listen to their ilk. The textbook industry is ripe for an inquiry and gutting, the Post Secondary institutions who train the teachers are staffed by by the guys who want to work at MOE and the gutless Boards betray their public virtually everytime they vote…google the “avison report” regarding the BC Teachers College (which is a disaster) but Avison is the former DM who helped create the problems and absolves his staff at the BCTC and blames it all on the teachers..
The first place that all of the problems come from is the curriculem and the pedagogy. I’ve been umemployed for the past year after missing most of the first several years of my youngest’s schooling working stupidly long hours. I have 21 child years of dealing with teachers in a bad school (poor neighborhood.)and a highschool. Small sample perhaps but the teachers have all been great. The board and the MOE however are morons of the worst kind. Arogant, inflexible ignorant and obscene apparatchiks who all have PhDs from the “best” schools where they learn only to listen to their ilk. The textbook industry is ripe for an inquiry and gutting, the Post Secondary institutions who train the teachers are staffed by by the guys who want to work at MOE and the gutless Boards betray their public virtually everytime they vote…google the “avison report” regarding the BC Teachers College (which is a disaster) but Avison is the former DM who helped create the problems and absolves his staff at the BCTC and blames it all on the teachers..
TJ @ 12:18 PM: “lookout, how do we change things for the better?
“I’ve tried my kid’s school and I instantly run up against the entrenched bureaucracy.”
TJ, join the club! I’ve tried, both as a teacher and parent, to change the system. The “system” seems to be impervious to change. Short of a movement like the Tea Party, which is unlikely in Canada, I don’t really have any ideas that will work. The problems are so wide ranging and deeply entrenched, there is no simple solution. I do support charter schools and vouchers, but, as others have pointed out, these are not panaceas.
I’m altogether in favour of “boot camp” schools for the critical mass of incorrigible students, who the boards simply let run amok. Forget THAT idea: the Charter would never allow it. Public schools are forced to deal with full blown criminals—and they have all the rights.
As I’ve said, it’s a MESS. Cheers, TJ.
peter, I hear you—and agree! The Ministries of Education (MOE), boards, and faculties of education are, as you say, utter “disaster[s]”.
I’m glad to know that your teachers were, generally, “great”. There are a lot of fine ones out there, despite the rotten system.
Best wishes.
Blah blah blah…yes I blame the unions 100%. IMO get rid of the unions and there goes the problem. Anything else is just rhetoric.
“The Charter has everything to do with teachers’ almost obliterated authority. Try doing this job without it: the courts constantly give students more rights. (Check out R. v. A.M., 2008.) So, go after the politicians. Go after the board bureaucrats.”
I’m sure most of the people here have gone after the politicians. Unfortunately the people who have the created this odious situation have complete backing of the various government unions, especially the teachers union. CBC helped as well. This is the cesspool teachers themselves created, now they claim the system is unworkable. Allow me to speak on behalf of the millions of people who have argued with you guys for 20 years or more. “We told you this would happen but you ignored us”. So don’t wonder why you’re not getting any sympathy from us.
Indiana (I get it. But this is no reason to expect me to accept that my kids and I get inferior service in a system “I believed was flawed” because you need your job.) You skipped quite a few of my observations when you drew that conclusion from my comments.
I needed a job. Most of us do. Are you suggesting I should not work unless the system is perfect or that I should have left because of the flaws? If one applied such high standards, no one would ever do anything because no system is perfect enough. Medicine? The military? Engineering? Who would be left to cut out your appendix, defend your country’s interests or teach your children, or indeed design your buildings, if only the purest would do? The Dalai Lama?
Of course people should work to improve things and people do. However, the system is a accumulation of many acts, thoughts, and decisions and one individual only has so much effect.
Husband of a teacher described in his 5:33 post how a teacher and a parent can work together to help a student improve. The educational system is just as imperfect as it always was, but they managed a good result because instead of worrying about the system, they just got on with the job. He makes my point better than I can.
Well, $ FKA gord, teachers spend most of their working lives quite isolated from their peers. Our job is to teach our students, and that’s what most of us try to do. Most teachers are not at all involved in the union: they’re far too busy teaching and caring for their families—two full-time jobs! As far as females are concerned, left-wing, feminist women, usually not married and with no kids, have taken over the union. (Who else, after a full day at school, all the paperwork and with a family to care for, has time for all the evening and weekend meetings?) The union men are altogether left-wing too. Decades ago, I tried to engage these people. ’Total waste of time: they made me jump through multiple, arbitrary hoops. The lefties follow their own rules only: no equality or tolerance allowed.
For the past few decades, as the teaching demands have become more and more burdensome, and the union and administration more and more politically correct, I’ve spent most of my time in my classroom, a “haven in a heartless world”. I engage with administration as little as possible—professionally and as pleasantly as possible, most of the time—and hope they’ll stay out of my space. Like rita, I’ve taken a stand, when necessary, and have paid more than a few prices.
Because the system is so much like a gulag—there are multiple union rules about what/how we’re allowed to communicate with one another and admin., and multiple ways for teachers to be punished—there is little open discussion about any serious issues. Why would I “out” myself? This is not an optimum environment in which to function: before about 1990, when the Charter-driven case law began to be apparent (no support for educators), it didn’t used to be this way.
What’s surprising me here is that some people, with altogether legitimate beefs about the public education system, are so angry, they’re not willing to even acknowledge that many teachers share their concerns and, under difficult circumstances, do exemplary work with their students. Education systems are HUGE. Individual teachers—and the system’s set up to keep us that way—are not responsible for the whole system: we’re cogs in the wheel—and treated that way by the system. We do the best we can. How come so little respect from those who agree with us, that things are FAR from perfect?
Pubic education hasn’t been around forever, although it has been over a century. Before public education, literacy rates (a good indicator of quality of education) were just as high as they are now. When public schools started, literacy rates went up because more kids were able to go to school. Initially curriculum, methodology and expectations were the same as the preceding private schools. As time went on things went wrong and literacy rates dropped.
Pubic education hasn’t been around forever, although it has been over a century. Before public education, literacy rates (a good indicator of quality of education) were just as high as they are now. When public schools started, literacy rates went up because more kids were able to go to school. Initially curriculum, methodology and expectations were the same as the preceding private schools. As time went on things went wrong and literacy rates dropped.
Good points lookout. I don’t think all teachers are bad. I have teacher friends. Like you say people have legitimate beefs and are angry. The frustration accumulated from years of pointing out the stupidity of the left’s agenda and living with the consequences of it only to be ridiculed for our efforts has caused a lot of people to lash out. Unfortunately all teachers are considered guilty through association. I would hope that the teachers who have posted here will continue to fight the good fight from the inside and understand and ignore the odd unfair comment that comes their way.
Good luck to you and yours.
BRAVA, rita!
You’ve read my mind: if perfection is the only worthwhile standard, and anyone involved in a system that’s less than perfect is no more than a dupe, we may as well all hibernate and starve—in the freezing dark—as none of us will be able to make a living.
“Perfection is the enemy of the good.” It makes me sad that apparently reasonable people here don’t seem to acknowledge that.
$ FKA gord @ 10:22 PM: I appreciate your gracious comments. Thank you!
(Robert, thank you so much for your fine contribution as a guest blogger here at SDA. You get A++!)
Don’t get me started on teaching!
Thanks, Robert, for your great contributions!
WalterF
I once went to a parent/teacher interview for one of my sons. The teacher (a well meaning and earnest gal as near as I could tell) was concerned about his reading comprehension.
I expressed some shock in that I knew he was currently reading The Twin Towers from the Lord of The Rings Trilogy.
She noted that she had seen the book on my son’s desk, but had assumed he was just using the cover as inspiration for the orcs, elves and wizards that he doodled on his workbooks.
When I told her that he was in fact reading the book himself she questioned how I knew.
“Because when I talk to him about it he seems to have read the same story I did.” I replied.
Awkward silence followed.