On Tuesday, just the second day of the fall session in the House of Commons, every single question in a lengthy and highly contentious Question Period was devoted to the issue of the elimination of the mandatory long-form census. While the opposition claimed to be defending science — “It is clear that by eliminating the long form census the Reform Conservative government is hoping to dilute science—which is appalling and sends a chill down my spine,” said Liberal Wayne Easter — it was clear from the nature and tenor of their questions and statements that the data collected by long form census is, for them, simply a tool to leverage more money from taxpayers.
“(The long form census) responds to the needs of Canada’s various communities…it deals with such things as housing, education, and services for vulnerable or marginalized groups, which include women, the disabled, the visible and linguistic minority groups..” said NDP MP John Rafferty, who then quoted the president of the Atikokan Métis Council: “The loss of the credibility of the data that is derived from the long form sampling would be devastating to the Métis people…” Liberal MP Michael Savage read a letter from G-funded advocacy group National Council of Women of Canada: “NCWC is a staunch supporter of recognizing unpaid work in contributing to Canada’s vibrant economy. We are now writing to oppose the proposed changes to Canada’s census.” Liberal MP Anita Neville proclaimed “The mandatory long form census…provides information on unpaid work, women’s wages, the status of disabled persons…”
BQ MPs, for some reason, were especially interested in the funding leverage that the long-form census provided. Richard Nadeau asked “How are we to justify measures to help society’s poorest and our linguistic minorities when the data are incomplete and unreliable?” Robert Bouchard pled that the data is critical for decisions about “social housing”; Serge Cardin, who accused the Conservatives of wanting to “disengage from more humane and socially oriented policies,” quoted two professors, “experts on the census,” from the Université du Québec à Montréal:
Two or three years ago there was an uproar when a study on income trends showed that there was a growing gap between rich and poor. The right-wing media lashed out, accusing Statistics Canada of Marxism. There is tension between the government and Statistics Canada, which exposes a reality they would rather not see…
There you have it: the opposition’s outrage on the census issue is hysterical and oddly disproportionate because they all believe in the primacy of a bureaucratic ruling class who will “build” Canadian society from the top down through redistribution, and they need the right “data” to make their case. Nadeau: “These statistics, like those published by Statistics Canada and the Institut de la statistique du Québec, help the decision-maker, the elected representative, the democrat. The elected democrat wants to help the people, the citizens, and take an enlightened and scientific view of that people’s situation in all spheres of life and society and throughout the nations they represent…”
We’re talking off-the-charts condescension: “Political mathematics,” lectured Nadeau, “entails having all the—I would like my Conservative friends to listen carefully to the next word—scientific information, obtained by using a scientific method. The term scientific is very important. I know that some MPs believe that the world was created 5,000 years ago and that human beings lived alongside dinosaurs. That is not true. They should stop believing such things. They are not helping science and not helping the Quebec or Canadian public.”
NOBODY out here in the real world give’s a rat’s rosy ass about the census. The opposition coalition can whine all they want while voters’ eyes and ears glaze over. Thank God hockey will be back soon, featuring REAL fights among REAL men over REAL issues!
It is worth saying, and repeating, that when the federal government wants information (and it often does) it turns to private market research companies.
The Census Bureau just does not have the expertise to construct questionnaires which will lead to reliable information. Coercion all but guarantees
that most respondents will lie or obfuscate as
far as possible. I’ll say it again: government uses private market research companies when it wants an accurate answer
(and, of course, a different set of “market research” companies when it wants certain conclusions to be fed back to it).
The lefties are politicising the Census. As has been found in the US this pretty much guarantees that the census,
long and short, will be totally unreliable in all regards.
The Census Bureau, in fighting for their turf, are working for their own future irrelevance.
When a government bureau plays politics in an environment with a minority government,
it may please the opposition but it will not be trusted by them if and when they achieve power.
An elementary point, which our politicasters ignore, eventually to their detrminent.
I dunno, the Conservatives didn’t run an entire campaign on the myth of AGW. Sounds more scientific than the hysteria crowd.
Then there is financial. Conservatives know enough Botany to know money doesn’t grow on trees. Others show no awareness of that.
As far as the environment goes they understand the reality of the oil sands and not the fiction.
The math is there too, they have more seats than you do.
They may believe in dinosaurs and man co-existing or not but the Liberal succession planning seems to bear some resemblance.
Follow the money is a good rule of thumb.
The rest of the world is melting down and all opposition party can come up with is this.
Yes, well it would take a miracle to believe their vested posturing…
To the learned comedian Wayne Easter, you can buy one’s justificatory ‘science’ from any street corner AGW huckster or apply the appropriate level of funding to yield the desired ‘study result’.
The Canadian public didn’t just walk out of the PEI potatoe patch yesterday.
THX for that cogent and carefully couched argument.
Well it’s a good thing ‘street corner prostitution’ will be up for debate before long. I am awaiting the, ahem, ‘science’ on that issue as well.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Well I think that the mandatory census is a very scientific.
Until the last census I had no idea that Jedi Warrior was a religion or that there were so many followers of said religion.
Science? I got your science _right_here_, ya blood sucking pinko maggot.
So as a white male I should fill out the form so they can better discriminate against me.
Do they really think we are that stupid. They will only get name, rank and serial number from me.
Joe (9:28), Conservative MP James Lunney, responding to Liberal MP Carolyn Bennett, said:
“The member spoke about the priceless data. There have never been penalties for false information in the database, and this priceless data that so many scholarly people refer to may not be as accurate as they like to think. For example, I understand some 26,000 Canadians listed their religion as Jedi Knight.”
I was adopted at birth, from parents unknown.
is the Gov’t of Canada ok with “I don’t know”? that doesn’t sound very scientific. It sounds like a census survey.
Here’s a survey I read regarding. In Calgary 2 years ago there were 60 home invasions, last year there were 68, and this year with 2 months remaining there’s been 62. I haven’t heard of anyone being able to defend themselves against this while the invasion was ongoing. The other day there were 4 in one night, (from the Calgary Herald). This isn’t scientific, it’s only a survey. Can the Libtards or the BQ or NDP do anything about this? Because it’s devastating to home owners, and my God given personal right to self preservation, is more important to me than the life of someone that invades my home.
… because it’s devastating to home owners, or renters, or, normal people.
“Two or three years ago there was an uproar when a study on income trends showed that there was a growing gap between rich and poor.”
Dinosaurs notwithstanding …
The growing gap between the rich and the poor has been underway for a thousand years, but it’s not always the same rich and poor. It’s constantly changing depending on what the INDIVIDUALS in those two groups are doing.
I believe progressives use statistics in the same way that a drunk uses a light-post; for support rather than illumination.
“The right-wing media lashed out …” Canada has right wing media? & “The term scientific is very important.” I’ll say. It means hang onto your wallet, here comes a leftie bullshit storm.”
I dare the opposition to force an election over this totally irrelevant issue. Let them walk the talk.
Wayne Easter: cheap opportunist of the month.
“..Reform Conservative government is hoping to dilute science—which is appalling and sends a chill down my spine..”
In other words, it will soon be Hallowe’en so you’re resurrecting scary Christian Western Reform creationists to frighten voters.
How, oh how, do idiots like Easter get elected? No contest if you’re a Liberal on PEI, I guess.
But how did he earn the post of Solicitor General of Canada for one year?
Wayne, the idea of the Liberals getting elected and you serving in another cabinet post is appalling to me. The chill down the spine sensation I’ve just experienced reminds me to mail my donation to the Conservatives tomorrow.
Had Harper proposed that the long form should be mandatory for everyone (instead of 10% currently), the Libs et al. would have screamed just as hard.
Politics these days is nauseating.
What’s appalling is the voluntary long form – which contains virtually all the information on the old mandatory form – is now going to be sent to 30% of the population, not just 10%. How is this diluting science?
Why are the responses from however many of the 30% choose to fill it out necessarily less accurate and less honest (which all the Opposition parties and census bureaucrats claim) than the mandatory one? Where is their evidence for this? How were the old mandatory forms checked for honesty and veracity?
And here’s the talking point I’m amazed we’re not hearing from the Tories: Is the Opposition saying Canadians are so unpatriotic and so uncaring about civic duty that they need to be forced to respond? Do they not think that a percentage of Canadians would appreciate being asked, instead of told, to fill it out? Is the Opposition’s view of Canadian citizens so low, they feel the need to force Canadians to answer questions?
Kulak: re follow the money
Two groups make money on the mandatory form directly:
Statscan because they sell the data to the private sector that they have gathered and have government funding to do it already. Thus they have a nice little cash slush fund that has no claim on it – it doesn’t get any better of you are a bureaucrat with dreams of empire-building. Thus it is no surprise that they are pushing back against the CP and using their friends in the private sector to help out in the PR battle.
2. The private sector marketing consultants get all kinds of research data at cut-rate prices compared to what it would cost them to do it on their own. The data has the stamp of being legally mandatory which many naive customers of these firms take to mean that the information is better than voluntarily gathered data – this is not necessarily the case. By looking at the questions in the long form many seem to be made to order for the private sector. I include NGOs as private sector because their staff most certainly do profit from the use of the data.
What is repugnant to me is the conduct of the MSM as it reports the bleating of these massively vested interests as if these groups were innocent parties – victims of you will – when they are nothing of the sort.
A great, great post EBD!
“… the opposition’s outrage on the census issue is hysterical and oddly disproportionate because they all believe in the primacy of a bureaucratic ruling class ..”
Without a doubt – this worm, this modern Ruling Class has burrowed its way into “democracies” everywhere. It is thee! issue of our times.
The Ruling Class syndrome explains a lot of what has puzzled us all during the last fifty years.
“The world is run by crazy people” – I believe it is not a case of those people being actually crazy – as in ‘not able to think rationally’ crazy – but is a case of them using crazy (to us, smart to them) methods of gov’t administration. Methods that keep the population in a state of anxiety while still being hopeful the politicians will “help”. All in the name of coercing the ‘subjects’ to pay their taxes with little reluctance.
What else explains gov’t policies such as;
reward failure while punishing success/ soft on crime/ perpetrator rights over victim compensation/ climate fraud takes precedence over economic and lifestyle well being/ making criminals out of law biding citizens while letting a gun toting street criminals use the revolving door/ supporting media(the CBC) that ‘dumbs-down’ the news/
They want angst to remain a big part of our daily lives. Calamity is always the opening line of Pete’s The National. If the bad things are solved, what could the Politicians promise to do for us during the campaigns?
As ET has written here many times – the last thing The Ruling Class wants is a prosperous Middle Class. Especially one that is at ease.
The opposition’s unhealthy interest in sustaining and creating more census questions beyond the obvious ones explains a lot. A page has been torn from THEIR koran and they aren’t happy a fig leaf for driving more big government waste is no longer available by compulsion and smoke and mirrors manipulation.
Wayne Easter, former National Farmers Union President, is the dullard that thinks the Wheat Board can sell our wheat better than we can; but PEI farmers can sell their products however they see fit. But then under Marxism, some are more equal than others.
I think I finally got it – Jedi Knights are marginalized. I am a Jedi Knight. Send me your money. For the children and women!!!!
The social engineers, the parasites living off taxpayers’ money, the beneficiaries of “robbing Peter to pay Paul”, need census data (Jedi Knights and all) for their depredations. No one else does.
Great article. This is the best explanation for the rabid response to Harper’s minutely small change in the census. This is the Left’s waterloo. The implication is that statscan has been the vehicle that has allowed the nanny state to grow and thrive. If only marginally true, Harper is a chess-master and we are lucky to have him.
Out of curiousity I googled Richard Nadeau to find out what kind of scientific background he had; after all he did lecture the HOC on “political mathematics” and science. From wikipedia:
Nadeau attended the University of Ottawa where he received degrees in history, political science and education.
No scientific degrees there; “political science” has as much to do with science as “home economics” has to do with economics. It appears that he also recently watched 1,000,000 BC where Raquel Welch romped among the dinosaurs in her fur bikini (that’s the only reason I actually watched the whole movie).
On the subject of “political mathematics”, the wikipedia article notes one of Nadeau’s achievements in this area:
In the Canadian federal election, 2008 Nadeau received the smallest percentage of votes for a winning candidate, at just 29.13%
What I find curious is why the BQ are so upset over making the long census form voluntary; they want to separate so why should they care what happens in Canada? Perhaps the best thing to do is to give them their wish and create a new 300 page mandatory census form just for residents of Quebec that would be distributed to every person in that province. I’m sure the BQ statists would come up with elaborate punishments for those who refused to go along with this.
Yeah, let’s blame creationists … after all, they are too busy tending to their dinosaurs to fight back. I know it takes up most of my day, then fighting with the Nephilim, inventing the wheel, and getting fire to work every time instead of every other time. Who’s got time to fill out the damn long form?
I am confused. I thought the bill was to make the census voluntary, not eliminate it. Since nobody was ever charged and convicted of the hideous crime of not filling out a form, making it a crime was over the top. Now, if you listen to the media/opposition, this is tantamount to taking your first born into servitude.
I actually watched some Question Period and “Other Business” the other day and was again underwhelmed by Kindergarten-on-the-Rideau. It sounded like a Dave Broadfoot comedy sketch.
mandatory, voluntary, I don’t care. I’ll still spam it either way.
Like I did Keefe, never put a correct answer on that fire starter and took 6 months to do it for Cretin, after looking at it he declared. A proof is a proof and if you ave a good proof it is a proven proof that is proof dat proving proofs is easier dan speaking anglo! Librawls make me puke.
How can special interest groups lobby or blackmail for more money from the government if they can’t PROVE that they are such a vibrant and integral part of Canadian society because a voluntary census form would not even register their existence?
Our snivel service has become the army of the progressive movement, anything that threatens their power to control the people upsets their rulers and hysteria ensues. Ever notice the comments section at CBC seems infested with snivel servants who have nothing better to do than Harper and Con bash all day but in the evening the usual suspects disappear until the next morning?
This is getting stupid. Call the Opposition bluff and make it a confidence vote. If the CPC is smart, they’ll bury their opponents under science…you know, since they’ve been so stupid as to frame the argument that way, let’s bludgeon them with it.
Tex:
Pitiful, isn’t it?
The good part is the control freaks are squirming.
Bah, ha ha.
Stats Can is currently chasing me to take part in a “voluntary” survey on Medical Services here in Nova Scotia.
I’ve told the person who came to my door (twice already) that I was not interested in taking the survey. Just got a letter from Stats Can in the mail today, stating that their representative (who is under contract and not part of the department) would be visiting me again to ask for my cooperation.
Your tax dollars at work, this time I think I’ll be belligerent, rude and aggressive, rather than pleasant, but uncooperative.
RE: mitchel44 at October 1, 2010 10:57 AM
We just had StatsCan at the door with this same survey. It is suppose to help plan for future health needs in your community. You will waste an hour of your life, if you let them in, supplying them with answers to such questions as:
How many times a week do you eat carrots? Salad? Potatoes?
Do you ski?
Do you have alzheimers? (How would I know?)
You get the jist of it…FIRE.THEM. ALL.
Well, that’s as clear a picture of what we’re up against as any I’ve seen lately. This is what happens when governments bribe people with their own money. Challenging the wisdom of it is like insulting their religion. On second thought, it is challenging their religion.
This is sort of a side topic so forgive me, but should the Speaker of the House not correct Wayne Easter and ensure that from this point forward the CPC be known by its actual name as opposed to the Reform-Conservative Party? I’m thinking that Marxist-Liberal-Socialist Party wouldn’t be tolerated for long….
Canada, the last I heard, is the only country in the world that does a census every 5 yrs.
All grown up nations are satisfied to do it only once every 10 yrs – because its a bloody frigging waste of a countries time/resources to have a multitude of govt morons, misfits and manipulators sitting around trying to impose yet another hair-brained scheme upon an unsuspecting public.
Once every 10 yrs is good enough.
And fire. them. all. between censuses.
Absolutely, rockyt, the opposition grossly overstates the utility of the Mandatory long-form Census. Winnipeg South Centre Liberal MP Anita Neville said: “We do not want to see that there are not enough police on the streets or that the allocation of police is not what is should be because we do not have the information” — as if the police don’t know how much crime there is in their area until they check the census data….