Byron York:
As Obama said, his grandfather was a Muslim. His father was raised a Muslim before becoming, by Obama’s account, “a confirmed atheist.” Obama’s stepfather was a Muslim. His half-sister Maya told the New York Times that her “whole family was Muslim.”
Obama spent two years in a Muslim school in Indonesia and later, in a conversation with the Times’ Nicholas Kristof, described the Arabic call to prayer, the beginning of which he recited by heart, as “one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.” Given all that, it is entirely accurate and fair to describe Obama as having Muslim roots.
Some might go even further, when their guard is down for a moment.
Obviously Obama is embarrassed by his Muslim roots. That’s reason enough to keep bringing it up.
Exactly – it’s his actions.
For example,
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/08/the_truth_about_obamas_muslim.html
In differentiation to his overwhelming praise for Islam, which he singled out for its contributions to ‘tolerance, justice and human dignity’ (?!), “he refused to attend the 100th anniversary of the Boy Scouts (an avowed Christian organization), and, refused to attend the National Day of Prayer because he claimed to do so would be offensive to non-Christians.”
He also refused to attend the Arlington National Memorial Day Services, and has not joined a church since being forced, politically, to leave Wright’s Black Liberation church.
Attendance at a church would not matter; what matters is his rejection of certain religious events and his support for other religious events – and his astonishing refusal to acknowledge the reality of Islamic fascism.
As president, he has a duty to uphold the Constitution – a duty which he refers to and then ignores at whim, as when he refuses to protect borders and deal with illegal immigration. He also has a duty to acknowledge the spirit and identity of America – and he apologizes to the world for both America’s spirit and identity, refusing to acknowledge its exceptionalism and defining it, pre-Obama, as ‘erroneous and guilty’.
With this in mind, Obama ought to oppose the Obamamosque. It has nothing to do with the constitutional freedom of religion, for this freedom does not mention the geographic site where this is practiced. It has to do with ethics; it is a reality that Islamic fascism destroyed the lives of over 3,000 people; the geographic site is ‘hallowed ground’ and no mosque ought to be built there.
“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, the wise people as false, and by the rulers as useful” ~ Seneca
Ha ha, Freudian Slip:)
This weekend while my wife and I were divy-ing the chores she asked me which jobs I wanted and I said “that’s okay honey, I don’t have a choice…I mean I don’t have a say…oops I meant I don’t have a preference as to which jobs I do”.
We both had a good chuckle as my sub-conscious gaffes.
For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
~ Luke 12:34
This is why one’s religion is important.
Until recently, before those of us in the West, under Leftist tutelage, trashed our Judeo-Christian faith, we had backbone and courage. We had the gift of discernment, to help us distinguish between tolerance and suicide, to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now, wheat? chaff? tolerance? suicide?
Who cares?
Very few liberals are Muslim, most are Atheist/Agnostic, yet they are always on the side of Muslims.
Obama is simply one of them, but with dangerous amounts of power.
Muslim or not he must be stopped.
it certainly does matter who is in the white house!
How about ahmadinejad, would you be happy if he was in the white house?
In my opinion this pos is nothing more than a trojan horse who is hell bent on destroying the u.s. and is doing a dam fine job of it.
Glad to hear an awakening has started.
Todd Chuckles … oh sorry, Chuck Todd has a completely different take on Barack Obama’s religiosity! And since an “esteemed” member of the MSM said it then it must be true, right?!
His real religion is Marxism . . .
http://tinyurl.com/2avo3bl
It’s the “multi” in multiculturalism that’s become the New Religion, and that’s Obama’s cult(ure): He fills the multi bill on a whole lot of counts, which lets him slip under a lot of radar.
All you have to believe in is “multi”culturalism, under which dispensation focus, facts, and reality be damned; the more multi someone is, the better, and who cares about the specifics?
You’re a black POTUS and clueless? Who cares?
You’re maybe a Muslim POTUS and bow to America’s enemies? Who cares?
Multiculturalism tells us NOT to discriminate, and yet discriminating between good and evil, right and wrong, is what separates human beings from animals.
‘who cares’?
People who suspect they’ve been lied to care.
Lets look from another angle, perhaps the question should be: Is Obama an atheist?
If Obama is an atheist then he has lied (on record) about his faith which likely had major sway in the 08′ election. Like a Muslim, it’s unlikely that the Americans would have elected an atheist. So yes, I care if Obama was elected under false pretence whether he is atheist or muslim. In other words, I’d have no issue if Obama campaigned as an atheist(or a muslim) and won the election; only if he was deceitful during the campaign.
Re: secular nation
Could someone please direct me to the document that says “America (or Canada for that matter) is a secular nation”. I wasn’t aware that the terms “freedom of religion” and “secular nation” are equivalent. In my opinion, one of the gravest mistakes we’ve made in western society is to allow the atheists to cram the BS line that we are secular nations down our throats and into our education system. Personally, I am an agnostic individual that is proud and happy to live in what is clearly a Christian nation (Canada) because I am afforded the Right to exercise my beliefs as I wish; which, I could not do in a Secular or Muslim nation.
Finally, of course people… whomever they are, are going to be guided by their religious beliefs when making all decisions, political and personal. To wish for, expect or demand that our leaders do else-wise is moronic. Our laws and civilization are rooted in the Ten Commandments and we should expect that our leaders conduct themselves in the manner that was intended, regardless of your personal religious views. THAT, is why I care if Obama is a muslim! Because if he is, by definition, he is in conflict with the very ideals he’s expected to uphold.
*
again, folks… just ask “slick willie” clinton… it ain’t
the mis-step that smokes you… it’s the cover-up.
*
“So Dante…..when your daughter is subjugated to Sharia law,and stoned to death for “dating” an infidel,you will call it chickenshit?”
Do you really believe what you are writing or are you just saying it to be like me – a devil’s advocate? Because if you do believe this, you may want to start taking some anxiety and paranoia med. I don’t mean to be rude, but to link idle speculation about Obama’s links with Islam to the Islamification of the US is a little too similar to Margaret Atwood’s fear of the 1980’s Christian resurgence in the US (think Handmaiden’s Tale). Suffice to say, American secularism survived Reagan and his cronies (Falwell, Robertson etc) and it will survive Obama and his alleged beliefs. If you really live in this kind of fear, you have my complete sympathy.
“Funny how when the Commies went down,it all of a sudden became Islam.Same Godless b’tards,same useful idiots following them.”
Indeed. A constant fear of something or the other. That’s what makes America great. At least that’s what this thread suggests. Lets say Islam is defeated and vanquished. I wonder who next in line is. Mexicans?
“That is a very dangerous person to have in charge of “the most powerful nation in history”.”
Lets go back to the founding fathers and the very famous concept of checks and balances. That, alone, should put an end to this discussion. He’s not invincible. He’ll be in power for another two years (or six) and then he’ll go. And then the American people will replace him. Of course, if you want to convince yourself that the end of days is here, nobody is going to try to convince you otherwise.
“Would that factual statement be proscribed and treated as a self-evident smear?”
Fifty years ago, it was. Factual statements may be factual, but the intent behind them is to smear. Remember Kennedy and the Vatican rumors that one of the parties spread? Do you remember how Kennedy tried to avoid the issue whenever it came up? He denied it outright once or twice, but for the most part he remained evasive.
You’ll notice that over time, Islamophobia has become acceptable. Now don’t get me wrong – I’m not calling you or anyone racist – but if you take the most basic definition of Islamophobia (fear of Islam) and compare it to the statements above, it is pretty self-evident. In light of this, it isn’t exactly hard to figure out that if Obama downplayed his links to Islam, it has less to do with his worldview, and more to do with political strategy. He is aware, as I am sure anyone is, that Islam scares people in America. To attribute very normal political strategy and posturing (exceedingly normal, even) to some kind of devious plan to destroy America and the world, suggests that reality and logic are being replaced by emotion and paranoia.
“Disraeli’s religion (or, more properly, his cultural “attachments” became important only in the context of his policies.”
And yet he is remembered as one of the better, more effective Prime Ministers of the UK.
“What’s notable about his (utterly true) statement “it’s…accurate and fair to describe Obama as having Muslim roots” is that, while it IS accurate and fair, it’s an assessment that, if we’re to be honest, has not been overtly *uttered* or *written* in mainstream assessments of Obama”
You might as well say that all Germans over a certain age have Nasi roots. Problem with that school of thought, as the Germans themselves have shown, is that people can get conditioned over time. Therefore even if his roots are Muslim, those roots could be easily transplanted by the experiences he gained in America. Humans learn through experience. Beliefs tend to evolve over time. Human nature and all that.
“It’s these attributes – his refusal to accept the reality of Islamic fascism and his anti-white and anti-American stance – that is the cause of concern.’
Another long-winded psychological diatribe. However this one makes a little less sense, since it effectively means that Obama hates his mother and her side of the family.
For all the talk about America being a secular country, we can all agree on one fact. No American-born non-Christian, be he Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Taoist whatever, can ever aspire to be President of the United States. That says volumes about American secularism in itself. Even the Indians, with their flawed democracy, have managed to elect Sikh PMs and presidents, Muslim presidents and, of course, one of the most important kingmakers in modern day democratic politics – an Italian-born, Catholic woman. That is secular democracy.
The rest of the stuff is pretty repetitive. For all the hatred of all things “mainstream”, SDA has its own mainstream school of thought going on which evidently doesn’t believe in critical thought. Everyone writes the same thing over and over again. You might as well institute a facebook-style “Like” button. That would cut down the comments to maybe three.
Indeed. A constant fear of something or the other. That’s what makes America great. At least that’s what this thread suggests. Lets say Islam is defeated and vanquished. I wonder who next in line is. Mexicans?
-Devil’s advocate
It turns out the fear of Russian communist spies was justified;
They caught 11 Russian spies in the USA a couple weeks ago.
Will you deny this as well?
If those Mexicans are Illegal yes they should be next in line.
Then we should go after liberals.
Bwahahahahahahahahah!!!
Oh and yes America is great.
It is because the USA is great that Canada can afford to be such a nice place to live.
Without them as close neighbor, friends and allies we would be a shit hole.
They buy 80 % of what Canada produces.
They protect us from Invaders ;
ever heard of Japanese airplanes flying over the north pole in WWII trying to attack the USA by flying over Canada?
or German Submarines in St-Lawrence River in Canada in WWII?
The USA is great and makes Canada great like it or not.
Home Rule, not Rome Rule, was the battle cry of Northern Ireland’s Protestant sector. It may have had some credence, but the Republic of Eire is hardly ruled from Rome, the evidence is clear. When John F. Kennedy ran for POTUS there was fear of Papal interference in the politics of the country, but this proved false, and Kennedy was hardly a shining example of Catholic Matrimonial bliss.
Truth is though, that Islam has proven to be incompatible with democracy.
Fear is a good thing, say when confronted with a bear, or someone intent on harming you and your family. Accusing people of “fear” is not an argument.
Also, anyone from any background can aspire to POTUS so long as they are born in the USA. What DA neglects to mention is the Right of citizens to vote for whom they wish on their own criteria. It’s called “Liberty”; and it makes the following statement incorrect and ridiculous : “No American-born non-Christian, be he Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Taoist whatever, can ever aspire to be President of the United States.”
So no, I guess we can’t all agree.
Well Devil, at least our enemy ala Islamic Supremacism is real unlike the leftwing climate hysteria generated by MSM and libtards for three decades. You remember the hysteria over the iceage coming back in the 70s, then it was acid rain and alas now it’s Global Warming. My enemy is real, it’s here in the west and it oozes and festers with hatred.
I think a key attribute of the USA, and what has made it exceptional, is its focus on the individual as the key agent of economic, political and intellectual power in a society.
That was an outstanding decision made by the Founders. No nation had ever so firmly declared its support for the individual before. After all, the individual, warts and all, is also the locus of failure, errors and to believe in such a being, requires taking a great risk. However, since it is only the individual who reasons, who thinks – this choice by the US to accept the risks of freedom led to the exceptional technological and intellectual advances of the US.
We have seen, and will always see, the continual rise of the opponent of individualism; namely, the collective. The collective, as a means of organizing a society, represses the individual. Collectives are always ‘no-growth’ for they reject dissent, questions, criticism – the backbone of individual innovation. They reject risk in favour of an assumed collective stability. This collective is utopian. If only we all behave in such a way, THEN, all will be pure and perfect.
The problem is, societies are not machines; we must acknowledge a requirement to adapt – whether to adapt to increasing populations and the need for more food and better medicines, or adapt to changing climate, or whatever. Therefore, the collective is unable to adapt. It becomes harsh and repressive.
We’ve seen the idea of collectivism in the medieval church, in fascism, in communism and now, in Islamism. They are all the same. Insisting on homogeneity, rejecting reason, thinking, individualism; repressive and militant. And all must be fought against and rejected for they deny the basic nature of man: his ability to reason, innovate and adapt.
ET, you write so clearly some of the main reasons, “the focus on the individual”, why my wife’s and my grandparents did their best and succeeded in leaving that Utopian paradise the Soviet Union in the early 1920s. The “world joy bringers” wanted a collectivist system for all.
What is so sad is the the liberalism of today appears to want collectivism.
oops
My bad DA.
I misread your comment. Sorry for the unjust criticism of the quote above. I caught you meaning on the second read, and although I may not quite agree, your point is well taken.
Wow, the State-Run MSM has been busy this summer.
I am just a poor homegrown conservative tea-partying terrorist from Mt. Olive, Louisi-Yana, not really bothering to many people, but yet, in one summer the MSM has managed to pit me against the Blacks (Omar Thornton) , the Mexicans(Arizona) and now the Muslims(ground zero), all for political gain. And, jeeez Mary, that’s no small attempt, that’s over 30% of the population. I guess maybe we should thank them for bringing all that bigoted racism into the light of day.
And there is still over 2 months togo. I reckon if the truth be known I might even dis-like the Chinese, Koreans, and those damn Russians, won’t know till they tell me. The local Native Indians aren’t much of a problem, I seriously doubt they read the newspapers and, anyway, spend most of their time up in Oklahoma getting drunk.
Hope ya did good at the Shows Kate, I wish now I had gotten a smaller breed dog, that 10 month old German Shepherd is 87 pounds, my God, her head is as big as mine, and I tell ya, it’s kindof intimidating when she gets close to your face, yea, it took nerves of steel for a while, but these days I am more than likely to get a bigfat wet tongue across the brow. For whatever reason she has decided that I am her alpha male. She did almost get the meterman, and the water guy, my cousin, and 3 Jehovah Witness’s on mountain bikes (that was fun, and I recall watching video and movies where German Shepherds are being trained to attack, kill and mutilate, or whatever else you want destroyed, I see now why they use German Shepherds).
Ok, gota go back to work, brakes over, on state time here, ;- )
,
ET:
Great post regarding the individual vs. collective…only one question…what does that have to do with why anyone should care about Obama’s religious beliefs AS AN INDIVIDUAL? Why should the collective drag him down in the name of the man’s spirituality?
Il Douche makes Slick Willie blush with his sepsis. No one believes a word.
What a great secular nation America is…where the President is subject to criticism for what his spiritual beliefs MIGHT be, and where soldiers get locked up for not attending a religious rock concert.
Ahhhh, you can almost smell the freedom :S
Funny how the same people who are so concerned with Islam coming to America are working so hard at bringing America down to the suppressive level of most Islamic nations. Ironic.
The only Deity Obama worships, is himself. Personally I think he’s an Atheist with cultural tendencies towards Islam.. Marx is his Religion. As it is his imps. To the ones who he has appointed. That or they barley have a Faith.
Normally this wouldn’t bother me, Since most secularists are as well. Being that their socialist Atheists means they have as crusading set of beliefs, & total, contempt for those who do believe in a Personnel God.
As Obama said.The American People will not give up guns or bibles, pretty much covers his contempt for those with Faith.
He thinks Government is infallible.
JMO
What a great secular nation Canada is…where the Prime Minister is subject to criticism for what his spiritual beliefs MIGHT be, and where soldiers get charged for murder, when they actually are doing their jobs.
It’s utterly irrelevant to comment on the physical individual who selects an ideology; the focus has to be on the ideology.
The jihadist is physically an individual but has selected a collectivist ideology – radical Islam.
Obama is physically an individual but selected Black Liberation Theology – a collectivist ideology;
Obama selected statism and socialism – both of which are collectivist;
he obviously is emotionally attached to Islam, a collectivist ideology;
He rejects dissent and questions – which is the foundation of individualism (notice he hasn’t had a press conference for a year;
he rejects free and private enterprise in favour of collective and public institutions – re education, health care;
Obama rejects the freedom of the individual and the risk-taking of questions, dissent, analysis. He’s a collectivist.
For those who think Obama’s obvious Muslim faith/attachment/what have you is no big deal, ask yourself this: if Obama was a devout Christian who made statements a la Sarah Palin that God has a plan for the US, ect., would anyone have voted for him?
I say no.
His obvious adherence to a religion that promotes disunity with others is an enormous problem. Lie to yourselves if you must but that problem will always be there.
“The only Deity Obama worships, is himself.”
Don’t we all? Or shouldn’t we all? For the true message of Jesus Christ is that God is in us all.
“I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 8:12
He was speaking of himself as a Human Being, saying that any and everyone can achieve true happiness, true being, by doing as he did.
The only other option is to worship the collective.
@ the devil’s puppet.
“You’ll notice that over time, Islamophobia has become acceptable. Now don’t get me wrong – I’m not calling you or anyone racist – but if you take the most basic definition of Islamophobia (fear of Islam) and compare it to the statements above, it is pretty self-evident.”
islam is not a race. Now don’t get me wrong – I’m not calling you an idiot – but if you take the most basic definition of idiot (a senseless person) and compare it to the statement above, it is pretty self-evident.
@ BJT.
You aren’t playing.
“It’s utterly irrelevant to comment on the physical individual who selects an ideology; the focus has to be on the ideology.”
Ah, so one must focus on the individual…except when it comes to spirituality…then it’s all on the collective. I get it now. What else must be referred to the collective? What other boundaries do you put on individualism? When can we and can’t we judge an individual as an individual? When must we judge an individual as a collective?
“For those who think Obama’s obvious Muslim faith/attachment/what have you is no big deal, ask yourself this: if Obama was a devout Christian who made statements a la Sarah Palin that God has a plan for the US, ect., would anyone have voted for him?”
But he didn’t. Quote him making a statement where he referenced his religious faith as a guiding principle in his decisions…a la Sarah Palin.
BTJ, typical leftists pretend they know the Mind of God and His Son (the same one who they won’t allow mentioned in public school). You have has much idea about Jesus as you do… well.. anything, really. Can it, is my point.
“But he didn’t. Quote him making a statement where he referenced his religious faith as a guiding principle in his decisions”
We know the Journolistas helped Obama get past the morals hump… Among other evils that were suppressed in the name of ‘Change’…
“BTJ, typical leftists pretend they know the Mind of God and His Son”
I AM God’s son…and so are you. Or would you rather believe that Jesus was some supernatural phenomenon who’s being no human can ever hope to achieve?
“Or would you rather believe that Jesus was some supernatural phenomenon who’s being no human can ever hope to achieve?”
Which man is closer to perfect?
muhammad or Jesus…
BTJ
You have never heard the Gospel of the Jewish Messiah Yeshewa ( Joshua in Hebrew). The one you ascribe to is the Hollywood Gentile Jesus (Jesus dervived from the greek Issus from the Aramaic Yeshewa.
God Became Man to fulfill the Law of God with no man can do. That means not even thinking of adultery. Original sin, brought to the human race by the Deceiver promising we would become Gods. So we heeded him with death as our Victory.He’s been giving that line out since day one. People still fall for it.Sorry where Not gods , never will be. Where in rebellion towards God. He, & He only. Supplied Salvation through the death of his own Son.
As Abraham showed his faith was willing to do with the Son of Promise.
Daniel even gives a date & his death 500 years before.
By Faith you are saved by grace. Not of yourselves least any Man should boast.
Call on the name of Yesewa & you will be saved.
Under no other name can man be saved but the Messiahs.
By no flesh should any shall be justified. No one can earn heaven . Its a gift. You repent your sins to God in the Name of the Messiah. Ask for the Holy Spirit to be given in the Name of the Messiah.Thats it. Than comes a lifetime of sanctification or remolding. For crowns.
Abraham believed (the promises of God) & it was accounted unto him as righteousness. Demons believe in God. Salvation is of God for anyone who would call on him through His Son.
We Become the Bride of the Messiah through no deed or law of ourselves.
Christians are just those God has forgiven. We do Gods will out of love, not reward.
There are no magic rituals, no special formulas, no right words to use like a chant. God is Personnel. He wants to know you. Just the Blood of the Son of God & our hearts circumcised with his Spirit.
Some Christians forget this Coventry was Given to the Jews first , than the Gentile. Gentile Christians are grafted in unnaturally. The Church just became Gentile orientated from so many converts & when it married the World after Constantine.
But all are one , Male & Female, Jew or Gentile In Messiah.
We become Sons of God ( Having been forgiven & born anew as his children), & what Adam did is redeemed from Satan’s go at being a god as well.
If I left anything out I’m sure someone will correct or add.
This is cubical Christianity. First Century believe.
By the way he’s coming again, but not as the Lamb but the Lion.
“It turns out the fear of Russian communist spies was justified”
That turned out to be one of the biggest jokes in history. None of them had actually committed any damaging espionage, as opposed to the Chinese, who’ve done a lot more. Should have put the Chinese before the Mexicans, I guess. My mistake. But you get my gist. There will be always someone to be scared off. No self-confidence. Just fear. It always amazes me how scared Americans are that there ideals will get washed away by the barbarian hordes. It certainly is a far cry from the way the founding fathers thought. They saw America as a land of victims of persecution; you see it as land full of cloaked enemies. Were they naive or are you paranoid? The answer is apparent: who’s ideas have survived the test of time? And who’s ideas, well, don’t? I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Great civilizations may disappear, but great ideas endure. Always.
“So no, I guess we can’t all agree.”
You’re right. I misworded that statement. I shouldn’t have said aspire. Technically I can aspire to be the pope. I should have said it the way it should be said: as a fact. No American-born non-Christian can ever become President of the United States. The answer is simple enough: people see all kinds of whacky machinations in a person’s faith. People find a way to make it difficult for Christians (Kennedy) or people who profess to be Christians (Obama and that Mormon guy – I forget his name) to, well, go about their jobs without attaching whacky conspiracy theories. That said, I am terrified of an American born HIndu president taking over because I am convinced he will make us do yoga and I’m just not flexible enough to do it, without looking like a clown.
“ever heard of Japanese airplanes flying over the north pole in WWII trying to attack the USA by flying over Canada?”
No. Have you?
“or German Submarines in St-Lawrence River in Canada in WWII?”
Why yes, I have. They even sunk a bunch of Canadian ships. It was even given a name – “the Battle of the St Lawerence”. They even managed to sink three Canadian warships.
“The USA is great and makes Canada great like it or not.”
Agree completely.
“Fear is a good thing, say when confronted with a bear, or someone intent on harming you and your family. Accusing people of “fear” is not an argument.”
Fear can be a good thing and a bad thing. Perhaps I should rephrase it as irrational fear. Go back to the first comment I made. Do you really think Shariah law is going to be implemented in the US, taking into account the “silent majority”, the checks and balances on government, the entrenched bureaucracy (a good thing in this case) and most importantly, a very small muslim population? If thats not enough, factor in the security apparatus that is geared towards keeping radical elements in the minority in check. You really think Obama can tell everyone to stand down and they will do it in 30 seconds? Bureaucratic inertia alone will stop any insidious mechanisms he may have. And then, of course, theres the entire elected government up there. Therefore, I agree – rational fear is indeed good and justified. But the levels of fear expressed on SDA – and the theories inspired by this fear – are bordering on the ridiculous.
“The only Deity Obama worships, is himself. Personally I think he’s an Atheist with cultural tendencies towards Islam.. Marx is his Religion”
You deserve a prize. A man who has cultural affinities with Islam believes in the philosophy of a German Jewish thinker. I’d never have the nerve to come up with a statement like that.
“Obama rejects the freedom of the individual and the risk-taking of questions, dissent, analysis. He’s a collectivist.”
Did he tell you all of this himself? I joke. While your psychological analysis of Obama amuses me no end (I am too wary of psychologically analyzing people I have never met), I would ask you one simple question:
Do you really believe that Obama rejects the freedom of the individual? I mean, Obama is many things, but he hardly comes across as Kim Jong Il – the only person who I can think of who would fit that category.
“if Obama was a devout Christian who made statements a la Sarah Palin that God has a plan for the US, ect., would anyone have voted for him?”
We have any number of US presidents who’ve used that to win (Carter, Reagon, W). I don’t understand what you are getting at.
“His obvious adherence to a religion that promotes disunity with others is an enormous problem.”
Now you’re just taking a shot at Judaism, Christianity and Islam. They all technically promote disunity by talking about believers and non-believers. The big difference between them is the attitude they adopt towards the non-believers (Islam – very hostile, Christianity – Initially hostile, now mellow). However, the base implication is the same. If you insist that your way is the only way and everyone else is wrong, you are promoting disunity.
You’ve outdone yourself today ET. Can’t add much to your comments but it does save me a great deal of typing.
One thing that I was forced to reconsider in September of 2001 was whether Libertarianism and islam could co-exist. I’ve come to the conclusion that they can’t. This means that one needs to take a very hard line with islamofascism and Wahabism and see if the survivors might decide it safer to chose the religious beliefs of Sufism, Bahai or Sikhism which are all saner offshoots of what I can only describe as the deranged medieval rantings of a pedophile with temporal lobe epilepsy.
So it matters very much if the POTUS (more accurately TOTUS) has myopia for TROP. I agree with ET that he probably has no true religion himself (aside from what is immediately convenient) but US inaction on events in Iran and the ME might even make Chamberlain look good in comparison to the big zero (He’s already raised Jimmy Carter’s stature immensely).
I don’t think Will Smith is a Muslim. I don’t think he’s a Christian (Rev Wright style or other). I don’t think he believes in anything, and, as others have alluded to above, he adopts whatever mask or role he feels is most useful at the time. I can see as a shrewd kid in Indonesia (we can agree he’s shrewd, can’t we?) deciding to pose as a Muslim in that overwhelmingly Muslim country. Also, let’s remember he had to leave Hawaii and move to Indonesia because the proto-Communist dictator Sukarno ordered all foreign students (including his new stepfather) home. This happened to him at age 6, in 1967.
Think about this for a moment; you’re six years old, and you leave the relative sophistication and political/racial/religious tolerance of Hawaii for the supercharged and hyper-partisan society of Indonesia. (See The Year of Living Dangerously) Are you going to stand up and say “I’m an American Christian!”? I bet not. To avoid being beat up on a regular basis, you decide to go along and get along. ET, you’re fond of long distance psychoanalysis of Smith; wouldn’t you agree that this event convinced him that he had to wear a mask, and that he didn’t really “belong” anywhere? Not fully black, not fully white, not fully Christian, not fully Muslim, not fully American, etc., etc.
Now, what would the consequences be when, at age 11, he moves back to Hawaii? Once again, he’s just a kid, once again, he’s an outsider, and once again, he has to adopt a mask. He survives, and doubtless begins to feel that he can present himself in any way necessary to succeed. He becomes a human chameleon.
This is a tremendous asset in politics. Need to appeal to blacks? No problem. Need to appeal to whites? “Hey, my mom was white.” Need to appeal to liberal elites? “I went to Columbia and Harvard.” Need to appeal the masses? Eat burgers and Spam. Just as Tiger Woods parlayed his golf skill with his self-described (and equally amorphous) “Caniblasian” heritage into an extremely popular brand, so Smith is able to be everyone and no one simultaneously. If one understands this, one is no longer surprised by his predilection for voting “Present”.
If I may indulge in a quantum physics analogy, he has become Schrodinger’s Political Cat, existing in many simultaneous and contradictory states, and somewhat desperate not to have the box opened, lest his wave function collapse, and he must stand revealed before all. The strain has to be enormous – look at pictures of him before the election and pictures now. His hair is grayer, his face more lined, and he seems gaunt and frayed. Absent a miraculous turnaround in the US economy, or some egregiously stupid act by Iran or North Korea, I can see him pulling an LBJ, and deciding to chuck it. Far better to retire to the lucrative speaking circuit, pace Clinton and Gore, and leave the mess for someone else to clean up.
KevinB – finally something with enough intellectual substance to chew on.
BTJ, I believe I made my point when I wrote “can it”.
Indiana @ 1:01: P.M., well said.
KevinB: “[Barack Hussein Soetoro Obama] becomes a human chameleon.” That, in a nutshell, is Barak Obama. Be very scared. (Read John Le Carré’s “A Perfect Spy,” for some insight into a human chameleon. In most cases, the father’s a bounder.)
ET: Although I concur with most of what you’ve said, I disagree with your argument that “We’ve seen the idea of collectivism in the medieval church.” What to you mean by this?
The Christian Church has always upheld the dignity and integrity of the individual human person, despite the sins and very human indiscretions of church officials.
“The Christian Church has always upheld the dignity and integrity of the individual human person, despite the sins and very human indiscretions of church officials.”
I think he meant the Catholic Church. Suffice to say, Luther probably agreed with him. The Catholic Church did have a habit of whipping people into line (conformity) – everything from intimidation (Galileo) to violence (Spanish Inquisition, Portugese inquisition).
You can separate Christians from the actions of the Church, but it is a little more difficult to separate the most religious figures (church officials) from the actions of the Church. Attributing it to human nature is a bit whimsical. There actions were undoubtedly influenced by their religious beliefs. For the record, I am not referring to the latest bouts of Church scandals (where you are probably right). I refer only to the medieval church and its attempts to silence dissent and questions.
Keniv
well put
the jesuits had a saying, “give me the boy till 7 (years old), I’ll give you the man”
Obama’s formative years certainly were helter skelter, and this must have had a great impact on the developement of his character. Now I don’t car if a muslim is POTUS ( I personally am an atheist witha anti religious slant) , but I do care if he lies about it, or any other aspect of his past.
I don’t think Will Smith is a Muslim.
I don’t think so either. He’s a reasonably good actor, I thought he was good in Hancock and Men in Black, but I’ve never heard him speak out on religion. Why would you care?
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000226/bio
[…]The Catholic Church did have a habit of whipping people into line (conformity) – everything from intimidation (Galileo) to violence (Spanish Inquisition, Portugese inquisition)[…]Attributing it to human nature is a bit whimsical.
Actually pretty much every culture has acted that way ( forced conformity, intimidation, violence, war et cetera ).
Some cultures still act that way. ( Middle East comes to mind…)
Stalin was anti-religion but treated its people more or less the same way the Church did centuries ago;conformity, intimidation, violence, et cetera…
It has NOTHING to do with the (*)Christian Church.
It IS Human nature.
History abounds with examples.
(*I’m an atheist and a conservative)
DA >
No end of the world conspiracy worries here.
Instead any thinking person can clearly estimate the outcome of runaway budget deficits, extended foriegn military campaigns on multiple fronts, unchecked illegal immigration, a collapsing economy without a manufactuing base, and a currency crises without a viable resolution.
Instead you have a commander in chief who no one knows or understands who is on permanent vacation. When he does poke his head into the real world, it is to give endless campaign speeches read from a TelePrompTer and to sign executive orders against the wishes of the majority public (he campained on a platform that he would never sign an executive order because it was “unconstitutional”). When he travels abroad it’s to bow and cow tow to enemies of the US and shun it’s traditional allies.
Now of course none of this is an end of the world show stopper. But it is definitely laying the brickwork for that road. The end of freedom and liberty based on “who is he” agenda is indeed the end of the world for most freedom lovers.
Spitting in Uncle O’Stalinist’s face.
Say No! to the collectivists.
Say No! to the “Professional Left*”.
“Continue to attack their institutions in every way we as individual citizens can. We are like sand grinding away at the gears and flywheels of their infernal machinery. Disrupt their bullsh*t factories at every weak point. Grind away at the hardened teeth and wear away the protective coatings they’ve depended upon.”
…-
“21. monkeyfan
The left establishment is terrified of the awakening of the decentralized American amateur…Millions upon organic millions of grassroots American Patriots have taken to opposing them in any way we are fit and able to. Each and every one of us is in control our own battle space. We each determine who, what, where, and how we will stand in opposition. In this sense Patriot Judo need not co-opt the juvenile antics of the professional protest establishment as the rising mass of Americans asserting their individual rights leave the Liberty eaters with no defined avatar for their professional character assassins and enforcement apparatus to behead.
They are forced to show and assert their hands which are proving to be in direct opposition to what it means to be an American. Every grand solution they float to solve the quandary of facing an increasingly aware and ungovernable polity is a new affront to each and every one of us; not because we have maneuvered to make it appear that way, but rather because they maneuvered in the light of their own decisions to prove that it is what it is. As such they are running on the mere fumes of decades of snake oil and propaganda.
Continue to attack their institutions in every way we as individual citizens can. We are like sand grinding away at the gears and flywheels of their infernal machinery. Disrupt their bullsh*t factories at every weak point. Grind away at the hardened teeth and wear away the protective coatings they’ve depended upon.
America was founded by and for individuals with a God-given right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness gained through the fruits of our individual labors. America was NOT founded to empower cabals of would-be elites presiding over fiefdoms of dependent serfs.
If they deny us recourse to peacefully redress our grievences, they reap the whirlwind of their decision to repress the will of the people.
The fight is ours to lose.”
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/08/23/the-inner-circle/#comments
“The Inner Circle
“When Oleg Atbashian described the “Professional Left” he might well have been describing the way in which Wikileaks funds itself. That is, professionally and with great secrecy. Atbashian takes the reader on a tour of an economic sector that can boom in a recession: the paid Left. That whose name must never be mentioned.”
(more)
…-
“The Professional Left vs. the Amateur Right”
“Of all the slips of the tongue and unintentional admissions by this administration, Robert Gibbs’ “Professional Left” comment may well be the one they wish they could squeeze back into their collective windpipe the most:
I hear these people saying (Obama) is like George Bush. Those people ought to be drug tested. … I mean, it’s crazy. … The Professional Left … will be satisfied when we have Canadian health care and we’ve eliminated the Pentagon. That’s not reality. … They wouldn’t be satisfied if Dennis Kucinich was president.
That is, perhaps, the first objective analysis we’ve heard from Gibbs in his career as Obama’s press secretary – and it’s likely to be the last one. For speaking his mind, Gibbs has been urged to resign in disgrace, as if he had committed treason.
We may laugh it off – and, as usual, dismiss the Left as a bunch of silly loons. Or we might consider that their ferocious attacks on Gibbs might be caused by something more sinister than a mere suggestion that on the planet of Hopeychangia, reality is a buzzkill. The latter is not a secret; neither is the fact that the truth is to the loony fringe what the cross is to the vampires. If that were Gibbs’ only transgression, he would’ve been slapped on the wrist, not kicked in the liver. So why the uproar? Why the feeling of betrayal? And just who exactly is the Professional Left?
~
The term “Professional Left” denotes a growing industry that specializes in converting other people’s money into an ideological product, while making a good living out of it in the process.
Watch the linked trailer for a complete set
of rules in this fightIt would seem that Robert Gibbs broke the first rule of the Professional Left, which is, you do not talk about the Professional Left.”
http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/the-professional-left-vs-the-amateur-right-t5883.html
Revnant Dream:
Thank you for your incomprehensible story, how any of that can provide anyone with something to live by and strive for I don’t know.
God is in man as he is in everything you see and don’t see around you. Man is the ultimate expression and realization of God to grace this earth. Jesus preached true inner peace and happiness, to let go off the ego, to be at one with oneself. That’s it, that’s all.
DA:
“That said, I am terrified of an American born HIndu president taking over because I am convinced he will make us do yoga and I’m just not flexible enough to do it, without looking like a clown.”
Hahaha! too funny.
“His hair is grayer, his face more lined, and he seems gaunt and frayed”
I’ve definitely noticed that…the exuberance has quickly faded into indifference.