Peter Hitchens on a certain “Aid Convoy”:
If you want to be wholly dispassionate, you might call it a ‘convoy’ without adornment. But to call it an ‘Aid Convoy’ is itself a departure from neutrality. I myself would call it a propaganda fleet, but then I am openly partisan on this issue. The use of the expression ‘humanitarians’ is likewise suspect, as is the use of the word ‘activists’ without saying what sort of activists they are.
…
It emerges that these ships were not entirely peopled by pacifist vegetarian idealists from the Isle of Wight.
For instance, one of these ‘activists’ is a lawyer who once represented a terrorist for free (his client was the interesting Kozo Okamoto, still in the Middle East and anxious not to return to his native Japan). Mr Okamoto took part in the 1972 Lod Airport massacre, in which 25 innocents were massacred.
Aboard were others who are active supporters of Hamas, the despotic and murderous Islamist rulers of Gaza. Hamas hurled their Fatah opponents to their deaths from the tops of high buildings when they took over, and recently imprisoned in disgraceful circumstances a British freelance journalist, Paul Martin (look it up) to a chorus of almost total silence from the British media and left-wing intelligentsia.
Then there were some members of the Egyptian ‘parliament’, who are supporters of that country’s rather unmoderate, and barely-tolerated, Muslim Brotherhood.
etc.
Having listened to a few of those “boat people” my response was an immediate, “PLEASE DON’T TAKE ME FOR A FOOL!!!!” Their one and only aim was to challenge and hopefully bring further international condemnation upon Israel. My take for what its worth, Stand Strong Israel.
People continue to conflate the people of Gaza with Hamas. The entire territory doesn’t deserve to be starved because of a few thugs. That is known as collective punishment and is illegal under the Geneva Conventions.
Nobodys starving in gaza unless Hamas starves them in thier torture chambers. All food medicines and virtually anything else is allowed through checkpoints from Isreal after being searched to remove any unwanted exposives ammunition, weapons and anything else used to exterminate thier Jewish nieghbors and oh a few Egyptians which explains why the Egyptian border with Gaza has been locked up for most of the last 50 years.
Hey Ishmael:
Maybe you should actually find out what is REALLY happening in Gaza, before you cry us a river?
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/12/muslim-jewish-blood-libel-exposed-starving-palestinians-look-pretty-fat-and-happy.html
“Collective punishment” ???
Hell, there are plenty of people right here in the US who would LOVE to have THAT kind of “punishment” given to them.
And if they’re sooooo “starving”, WHY are they REFUSING shipments?
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/02/israel.palestinians.aid/
Get your facts straight before spilling the same uninformed liberal BS we’ve heard over and over again.
“Aboard were others who are active supporters of Hamas, the despotic and murderous Islamist rulers of Gaza. Hamas hurled their Fatah opponents to their deaths from the tops of high buildings when they took over”
So are we to conclude that Hamas is merely ‘Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in hurry’?
And not so much as the kindness of a parachute on the way down?
And what pray tell would the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem say today?
Arafat’s “uncle” the grand Mufti of Jeruzalem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpKs-yq3zpg&feature=related
But hey if you want to provoke an attack, by attempting a weapons materiel run…your going to take a few hits.
cf Lusitania
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1098904/Secret-Lusitania-Arms-challenges-Allied-claims-solely-passenger-ship.html
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North”
Adding selective reading to the selective outrage there, ishmael. Read the Hitchens piece, for God’s sake. Nobody’s conflating the people of Gaza with Hamas.
joos won’t count til’ they’re the underdogs…
Again.
The only “Collective Punishment” so much beloved by Ishmael and banned by the UN (so Ish tells us), are the massacres perpetrated by HAMAS thugs murdering thousands of FATAH supporters>
But somehow, in the fevered gap between Ishmael’s two functioning brain cells and in the cesspit of moral and fiscal corruption that we know as the UN . . . aka the Turtle Bay Gang, when there is Muslim on Muslim violence, murder, torture and social mayhem that is not a problem to be reported (hello CBC!) or discussed in progressive leftist circles.
Muslims murder far more mulsims than are killed by Israelis.
But in Ishmael’s moral universe that is just A-OK.
The only morality and truth that a leftist has is what suits the party line at any given moment in time.
Iran sure is good at taking attention away from themselves so no one is concerned enough to notice the **BOMB** factory in full swing
The Bear,
No, they wont count till they join “the left” again.
The Israeli’s were the darling of the western left till the late 70’s eearly 80’s when conservative economic parties took over. Prior to that Israel was building a socialist haven in the dessert. The Israelis were anti british, anti imperalist and were paid up members of the left…not communists, just the right causes.
But nothing has changed, in terms of Israel’s behaviour or stance or goals since 1948….the left just fell out of love with them. So now they are to be shunned, insulted and demonized. And it gets done simply because they can.
This isnt justifying or condeming anything from the Israeli’s, the left has changed not the Israeli’s.
Biden gets it right.
“Israel has an absolute right to deal with its security interest,” Biden said in an interview on PBS television’s “Charlie Rose Show.”
“It was bullets this time. Next time it will be torpedoes.”
That’s the statement I’d like to hear.
ishmael I don’t know if a ‘few thugs’ can hold an entire population hostage. To me Hamas is worse than Hezbollah but they keep showing up with broken legs. The TV runs hate shows for kids so it’s not like they don’t know how. What is your reason for the population not pointing out the bad guys next time an incursion is required?
Thank god there is world wide condemnation of Israel’s actions. Israel apologists, as most are posting here, had better understand that not every nation in the western world is going to give Israel an automatic pass anymore and take what they say at face value; and thank god that time has come. Israel need to be held to account for it’s actions. Humanitarian efforts to Gaza should be allowed and Hamas, Israel’s convenient scapegoat is not part and parcel of the humanitarian effort in Gaza.
Call him Ishmael.
Call me Orde Wingate the Second. I stand with Israel.
Wealth and guilt; a strange combination. I heard an obvious white english woman from Canada proclaiming to the Israeli that she was willing to die for the blah, blah, blah.
The Dutch resistence shaved their heads 65 years ago. Today? The liberal mantra is “whose’s ever skin is the darkest is my friend and I’ll tell everyone I know that I have dark skinned friends; I’m a babe and a chic magnet.”
It’s cool to be “antiestablishment” becauce ….Hey look at me…I like John Stewart. I must be smart and edgy. If I call my self liberal, like superman in a phone booth, I become smart and caring – regardless if I’m looking at myself in the mirror in that booth. I earned a good look at myself.
O.K. boy and girls and that was not a relief column. Gaza has soo much food they are more overweight than the average obese English person. They are probably relieved in Gaza that the alleged relief column of ships didn’t get through the one thing that they are not short of is IDIOTS importing IDIOTS probably isn’t on their short list, along with rockets, mortars etc. Anyway be sure you bring your swimsuit so you can flounder in that new Olympic pool in Gaza.
As I said it wasn’t a relief column it was a “three hour tour” cue Gilligan. I hope the next time the I.D.F. just sink the provocateurs
I’m torn here; I despise Hitchens because of his blanket hatred of all religions – Christian, Muslim and (probably least of all) Jewish. I’m ashamed to align my self in any way with him, and especially after seeing him debate his own brother on the same matter. He is crude, obnoxious, and sarcastic to everyone; even the dying. His treatment of Oriana Fallaci on her final days because she wouldn’t reveal her final conversation with Pope Benedict was unthinkable. And I was no fan of Oriana.
Didn’t the Israelis tell the ship to go to port, where its cargo could be inspected, and if it was of humanitarian nature it would be released to Gaza? Seems if the people on board the vessel were all motivated solely by the desire to provide humanitarian aid, they would have complied with such a simple and customary request.
It’s always privileged white liberals who feel this aching need to be outraged on behalf of other peoples. It’s really nothing more than their own unique brand of left wing racism though, a modern rehash of the old narrative of noble savages receiving salvation from the magnanimous moral crusaders. They have this bizarre messiah-complex that says “Hey everyone look at me, I’m white and I’m Western, but I’m going to sacrifice this presumed superiority and prostrate myself for the salvation of you, you noble savages. And all the while I’m going to pretend I’m striking a mortal blow against white supremacy back home, even though my fashionable adoption of brown peoples’ issues is actually just a subconscious form of it. Workers of the world unite!”
Ugh. I need a barf bag.
larben: the Hitchens you despise is Christopher, yes? The linked piece was written by his brother, Peter.
It never fails to amaze me how many people get taken in by this kind of propaganda event. We even have -video- this time, but the MSM keeps bleating “botched raid on aid convoy”.
This is the reason I don’t have TV.
I’d be entirely cool with the Israelis sinking every single boat running this blockade. One ship, one torpedo. Pop goes the weasels.
Who let “T” out of his basement?
I think Isreal sent a message. We send commandos with paint ball guns. When things crap out they are commandos with handguns. They sent America a signal. We Will Fight If We Have To.
emg – It’s no bloody wonder I’m torn! I was thinking Christopher, thanks for the heads-up. This makes things a little clearer (actually a lot)
To paraphrase T:
Thank god there is SDA wide condemnation of T’s posts. T’s apologists, and few are posting here, had better understand that not every blog in the western world is going to give T (and its ilk) an automatic pass anymore and take what T says at face value; and thank god that time has come. T needs to be held to account for T’s actions.
Biden talks a good gAme but as hugh hewitt pointed out yesterday the US for the first time voted in the security council of the UN to codemn Israel’s actions.
Talk is cheap especially from a flakey VPOTUS like Biden.
Larben: I think you have the wrong hitchens. This is Peter not Christopher. And as someone who follows and reads Chrisrtopher, I don’t think he hates religion – I think he considers it to not to be one the whole a force for good.
Just watched CTV news(barf) and apparently the “whole” world is condeming Israel for the unprovoked violence against the peaceful aid workers lol. When did Al Kaida take over CTV? Whole world must only include MSM. Kates right, no one asked MY opinion!
when Palestine drops it’s weapons there will be peace in the Middle East, when Israel drops her weapons she’ll be dead
Mr. X – right on. It’s all about ME, I hold the moral high ground and it’s so completely easy, easier than texting on a Blackberry, because all I have to do is let retards from rabble.ca etc do all my thinking FOR me! I read their prepared statements, I memorize the easy quotable parts, I upchuck them like a parrot whenever prompted, and that’s IT!
And it can all be delivered rote in five seconds in the office kitchen while preparing my ethical-trade latte. Mmmm…creamy!
Since there is a disagreement about what the blockade is doing to Gaza, here are some facts.
Over 60% of Gazans are classified as “food insecure.” About 80% of Gazans require some sort of food aid. Many goods such as chocolate or other luxuries such as blankets and mattresses have been restricted. The goods that are smuggled in through the tunnel system are often too expensive for people to buy. Unemployment is close to 40%.
It goes on, and most, if not all of these effects are as a direct result of the Israeli blockade, aided by the criminal regime in Egypt and the American government that refuses to condemn the blockade.
In the piece in question, Peter Hitchens pulls a sleight of hand by making the flotilla raid about Hamas when the aid mission was actually meant to alleviate the suffering of the civilian population and make a political statement against the illegal siege.
Before you start hurling insults, please learn about the conditions on the ground. I don’t know why a civilized debate seems so difficult for some commenters.
link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7545636.stm
ishmael:
Sleight of hand? No more than you–indeed a great deal less than you–though I don’t think you even recognize the double standard you’re employing.
Hitchens is quite direct in his assessment that the “aid convoy” would better be described as a propaganda fleet; it is so, he says, for the simple reason that the ‘activists’ involved made it a condition of their “aid” that it be delivered by them, when there was a more, what?, diplomatic option available.
You say “PH pulls a sleight of hand by making the flotilla raid about Hamas when the aid mission was actually meant to alleviate the suffering of the civilian population and make a political statement against the illegal siege.”
… AND make a political statement against the siege?! Then you acknowledge that the convoy wasn’t meant ONLY to relieve suffering?
Then we’re in agreement.
And what were the politics of a number of those activists again?
Oh yes, *naturally* I trust the BBC more than this very genuine man on the ground and his actual photos – after all, the BBC doesn’t even bother naming one single source for their data (“we have seen documents” – SHOW THEM THEN!): http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001072.html
…none of which matters in the end, since the issue here is a people who shelter terrorists. ishmael, if you used your head for something more useful than a hatrack (parrot perch seems more appropriate), nobody would insult you. There is simply no point in having what you refer to as a civilized debate regarding TERRORISTS, and for you to ask for one seems somehow ghastly.
Tangential, but interesting; you learn something new every day:
“Abu Daoud [planner of the Munich massacre], now in his seventies, writes that funds for Munich were provided by Mahmoud Abbas, Chairman of the PLO since 11 November 2004 and President of the Palestinian National Authority since 15 January 2005.” – Wikipedia
ishmael said: “I don’t know why a civilized debate seems so difficult for some commenters.”
Its mostly because you are quoting a BBC article ishmael, and we know the BBC is pretty much a propaganda bullhorn for Hamas and Hizbolla. When you quote known liars as an authoritative source, we just assume you’re trolling for abuse.
Personally, I’ve never been to Gaza or Israel, so I have no direct experience of the conditions. But I do know the BBC and global MSM generally lies in support of Palestinian terrorists. Proof is no farther away than the coverage of this “botched raid on a humanitarian aid convoy”.
Therefore I can only conclude that MSM/BBC reportage on “the conditions” in Gaza is equally bogus, children are -not- dying in the streets, and the entire “aid” affair is nothing more or less than Islamofascists waving the bloody shirt and maybe smuggling some more rockets into Gaza.
Let us just say I’m not inclined to have a civilized debate with somebody who thinks its ok for Hamas to shoot rockets into Israel. People like that get a boot to the head.
So ishmael, -is- it ok for Hamas to shoot rockets into Israel? And if not, would it be ok for Israel to make sure Hamas isn’t having containers full of rockets shipped to them disguised as baby food?
Phantom:
Your response is rather childish. You’re discounting my argument and my link to relevant information not because of its content but because it comes from a news source you don’t like. You also make a completely unfounded claim that “the BBC is pretty much a propaganda bullhorn for Hamas and Hizbolla.” Well, that must be news to Paul Martin, the BBC journalist who was arrested by Hamas.
And it’s not just the BBC reporting the brutal conditions in Gaza and the arbitrary restrictions imposed as part of the siege. The World Health Organization and Gisha, an Israeli aid organization .
I assume that will also leave you unconvinced since it doesn’t match your predetermination that anything that contradicts the official Israeli story must be a lie and that anyone trying to help the Palestinians is a terrorist.
You assume, based on absolutely no evidence, that I support the deaths of Israeli civilians by Hamas. Well, I don’t. Civilians are never a legitimate target and Hamas is wrong to do so. At the same time, Israel’s government and military are wrong to board a civilian vessel in international waters and kill nine of them. They are also wrong to instigate a war in Gaza and kill 1400 people, 300 of them children. Injustice swings both ways and if you cannot acknowledge that you are either an idiot or a racist. Choose your poison.
Clarification: The World Health Organization and Gisha, an Israeli aid organization, also report that the conditions in Gaza are much worse than the Israeli government lets on.
link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/who-israel-led-blockade-limits-medical-supplies-in-gaza-1.281090
link: http://gisha.org/UserFiles/File/HiddenMessages/ItemsGazaStrip060510.pdf
@ishmael: you’ve made your flimsy point, we get it. Apprently you refuse to make the slightest effort to get ours; maybe you can’t read: the IDF boarded that shipful of armed, professional anti-Israel activists because they need to enforce a pefectly legal blockade to try to stem the flow of arms to their enemies, just as many other nations throughout history have done. They offered to let the flotilla unload at a designated port, and were refused. They were atttacked by martyr wannabes and returned fire. Some scum got killed, boo hoo.
You choose sides, life is like that if you want to be seen as having honor and principles in this life. The people here choose the side of decency and civility, and you have chosen the side of freak murderous scum. And that, in a nutshell, is why we don’t like you and don’t want to hear any more of your BULL$HIT.
You WISH we were racist, dummy, but it has less than nothing to do with that. Keep your leftard-parrot-kiddie epithets to yourself.
All clear? Good. Take a hike.
Michael H Anderson:
You’re making it clear from your oh-so-mature response that you’d rather not hear dissenting opinions or have a reasonable debate on the matter. Instead, you and Phantom would rather hurl insults. If this is the side of decency and civility, then I feel sorry for you.
Have fun in your self-imposed bubble. It must be nice to have your opinions constantly reinforced by like-minded people.
Can you not READ, “ishmael”? We have offered our own counter-arguments, but you continue your pointless oh-so-mature mommy’s-basement-dwelling trolling! What bubble of mutual assurance do YOU hang out in “ishmael”? Rabble? Tao.ca?
For the last time, WE ARE NOT HERE TO “DEBATE” THE MERITS OF TERORRISM WITH ANTISEMITIC PUNKS!
One last thought: when you come to this blog with a name like “ishmael”, it’s sort of a giveaway that you have an ossified bias in favor of Muslims. You in effect have announced in advance that you are anti-Israel. Why in hell would you expect a warm welcome and mass conversion to your POV? Are you actually *that* stupid? If you want to “debate” this matter with other stupid people, you’ve come to the wrong place, as I’m sure it’s – with apparent glacial slowness – sinking in.
GOODBYE, “ishmael”. I think I’ll join the JDL today; might get a chance to actually kick some dirty Nazi-hippie a$$.
OK! This thread has officially drowned itself. Time to move on.
Michael H Anderson:
Ishmael happens to be my real name. I don’t know why you think that is proof of my “ossified bias in favor of Muslims” other than some sort of prejudice you have toward foreign-sounding names. By the way, Ishmael is of Hebrew origin, you ignoranus.
I’m an atheist and don’t have a bias in favour of any religion, and nor do I have a bias *against* any religion. Calling me anti-Semitic and a “dirty Nazi-hippie” is way out of line.
Go f*** yourself.