58 Replies to “A Good Game For Delicate Boys”

  1. Stupid rule, even for a rec league. Why not just (re)distribute players from season to season based on skill levels.
    Personally, I blame the Conservatives.

  2. Just call the game early. Thats the usual thing to do.
    Of course part of the problem is bad parents on both sides, the ones who dont know how to teach the lesson thats ound in a loss and the parents and coaches on the other side who would run up the score….
    But if the game is that lost invoke the mercy rule like the do in little league baseball.
    Or, as someone suggested, do what we would do on the schoolyard, rebalance the teams.

  3. Wonder what happens if the losing team scores on itself. Does that clinch victory?

  4. Let’s say a team is already up 5-0 with half a game left to play. What is the winning team supposed to do with the ball for the rest of the game? The object of the game, after-all, is to move the ball down field and put it in the other team’s goal.
    Isn’t sports supposed to be a metaphor for life? Where in life can you win by losing? Oh, wait, Kate has already identified the anomaly — government.

  5. So, your team is down 0 – 5; you could score on your own net to win the game. That’s not right.
    Maybe the “involved parents” are habs fans and they are still upset about the 6 – 0 loss to the Flyers.

  6. But it is such a Progressive idea.
    You know, progressive, like better than it was.
    Progressives are so much smarter than us peons & rubes.
    Just look at Taliban Jack or Dr. Fruit Fly . . . they’re Progessives and they are so kewl.
    Like really.

  7. Does it really surprise anyone that this comes out of Ottawa; where mediocrity is the standard and egalitainism the rule – unless trumped by minority status, that is.
    Oh well, at least it explains the Senators’ perfomance on the ice…..

  8. This even made the BBC, it will be the first time in history that the words “he scored the losing goal” will be heard.

  9. One of the guys from the league clarified the rule. The “losing” team does not get credited for a win, but the “winning” team does get credited with a loss.
    So according to the stats, you end up with two losing teams.
    Another pitfall – what’s to prevent the superior team from scoring on themselves in order to keep the goal differential at the required “acceptable” level throughout the game?

  10. What was wrong with the ‘mercy’ rule? The best team wins, you just stop keeping score.
    Only in Canada can you be ‘punished’ for trying harder, being better, and having talent.

  11. “Mr. Cale said the league’s 12-person board of directors is not trying to take the fun out of the game, they are simply trying to make it fair.”
    Oh,yes, “fair” as in “life is fair”! And there are enough progressives around to see to it!
    You ARE taking the fun out of the game, meddling busybodies.

  12. If I were a parent I would encourage our team to lose by at least six goals every game. Then we wouldn’t have to subject ourselves to the torture and humiliation of “playoffs”.
    I’m beginning to doubt there’s a lower limit to just how dumb we can become.

  13. Just so you know kmn, the rule doesn’t reward the losing team with a win, they still record a loss. But a team that runs up the score beyond a 5 goal lead will be awarded with a loss as well. It’s been implemented to punish the few coaches that every year manage to cheat and stack their teams. It’s a stupid rule. But they’d rather take this approach than address the broken system that allows such an imbalance to take place.

  14. This means that the children of conservative parents who teach their kids to compete, will have a lot less competition in the real world where it matters.
    Consider that big government hiring is nearing an end. There will be a lot ‘helping’ professionals driving successful conservatives around in taxi’s and serving them in restaurants.
    Looks good on them.

  15. Progressives are borderline retarded twits, yes I said retarded because they seem to be born with a mental defect and lack the ability to be rational they are ruled by over sensitive emotions and feelings. They are devoid of logic ergo this stupid rule is an extension of their feelings based policies, self esteemed is the most important personality trait to the progressive retards. Never mind children must learn what it’s like to win and fail in life, once the progressives are done with our children they will be devoid of the ability to cope with real life and end up on disability pensions like many of their progressive betters.

  16. Reminds me how my kids were disqualified in karate tournaments for knockdowns.

  18. This has become an issue in international hockey, with Canadians criticized for running up the score. One losing coach, however, rejected this attitude. As I remember it, his comments were along the lines of ‘the Canadians paid us the complement of playing hard the whole game’. He then added that his team would never improve without facing that level of intensity and skill and having to respond to it. To him, the lopsided game gave his players a chance to go up against more skilled players and realize where they had to improve.

  19. Let’s say a team is already up 5-0 with half a game left to play. What is the winning team supposed to do with the ball for the rest of the game? The object of the game, after-all, is to move the ball down field and put it in the other team’s goal.
    The winning team could just play “keep away” for the rest of the game and really humiliate the opposing team.

  20. What can one say about stupid rules, self esteem and warm and fuzzy volunteers?
    A game of sport is about winning. Winning is not everything, at least not in a kids game, none the less it is about winning. It is in nature of things that they want to play to win otherwise they would not bother to show up but for the glory of their parents.
    Could someone establish that self esteem is not something you are given by decree? Self esteem is acquired in the psyche of a person for accomplishing something good. Diktat, that you are going to have self esteem if you loose by no more than 5 points is warm and fuzzy nonsense.
    It has become so that the volunteers often think of themselves to be above others. Apparently the rules of soccer game can be altered by the volunteers because they are volunteers therefore superior to others. It is possible that the same volunteers suffer from lack of self esteem and are doing something about it where the resistance is week and if there is an objection they can say that they are good volunteers and they can do it.
    This is not to throw volunteers under the bus. Those that do it for the purpose to actually help without acknowledgement are far superior to those that want to be put on a pedestal.
    Your agents name is permanently on the plaque in Canada Olympic Park in Calgary, nobody really cares neither should, though the time volunteering at the Olympics was somewhat of a highlight in life.

  21. It begs the questions – why bother having teams at all? why bother even playing the game? why bother having a soccer league?

  23. European game, European attitude.
    Aaron- Your karate analogy is a little off the mark. Karate tournaments are no-contact, or partial-contact. Knocking an opponent down would be the equivalent of tackling an opponent in soccer. It’s an obvious foul. If your kids want to throw real punches, you should put them in kick-boxing, or boxing.
    If parents want their kids to get into real competition, maybe they shouldn’t put them in sissy sports, like soccer. My kids played soccer til they were 9, and it left a negative impression on them. Once they started boxing, their attitude toward sport really improved.

  24. “If you win, you’re a loser”-King of the Hill
    “is a temporary measure that will be replaced by a pre-season skill assessment to make fair teams”
    This is the most telling comment of them all and it speaks to the motives. The coach of my daughters track team decided to make “fair” teams for the relay meets this year. I asked my daughter “why didn’t they tier the teams?” (team 1 & 2) and she told me that the coach said it wouldn’t be “fair”. Had the coach put the top four sprinters on Team 1 they would have been competitive; but instead, nobody from either team got through the first round. Talk about fair! To make a long story short, my daughter was devastated on four occasions where by the time she received the baton(at anchor) her team was completely out of the race. Furthermore, I was told at the beginning of the track season that “we never do well in these things” by one of the coaches. I abhor the Culture of Losing at this school, and will be pulling my kid out and putting her in a school that has higher expectations for their students next year.
    The bottom-line is, I’m thankful for the extremely competitive softball environment in Saskatoon. In Saskatoon the Softball Zones have pride, and go into the year putting forth the best Division 1 teams they can muster. For success, this requires long-term planning and the constant development of young talent. In my view, for all kids to excel in sports it is crucial to put the kids into tiered leagues(for academics also). This allows the skilled players to advance and the lower skilled players to develop into high skilled players.
    Just so you bleeding hearts understand, it’s both the high and low skilled kids that suffer from these “fair” teams(and classrooms). The low skilled kids often do not return for second and third seasons when they’re grouped with the elite kids. They get physically hurt and emotionally discouraged because they just can’t compete.
    Like one of the commenter’s on the story said, this attitude will forever keep Canada as an uncompetitive soccer nation.

  25. I now know why Argentina only beat Canada by a score of 5 to 0 in last week’s match.
    If the Argies has scored one more goal they would have lost the match.

  26. I know of one really great high school football player whose coach would always pull him from the game when the score got lopsided, which was a lot. Kept that player from holding the national record, the only record he did not win, iirc.

  27. “Just so you bleeding hearts understand, it’s both the high and low skilled kids that suffer from these “fair” teams(and classrooms).”
    It’s a recreational soccer league, Indiana, not a competitive house league. You’re right that your daughter’s track team should’ve gone forward with the fastest four+sub, but for rec sports, distributing the more skilled players across different teams basically operates on the same principle as kids choosing teams for a schoolyard pick-up game.
    The Gloucester six-point differential rule, however, is idiotic.

  28. “But they’d rather take this approach than address the broken system that allows such an imbalance to take place.”
    What a crock of isht!
    The Squirt girls ball team I spoke of is 9-0 and they’ve mercied all teams in each game except one. The coach hasn’t started the number one pitcher in the last three games and they still mercy the teams every game. Is this not fair? Has the coach done something wrong making the kids bust their a$$es every week and for two months in the winter? Should he quit coaching and driving the team until they lose interest and the other teams catch-up?
    These girls didn’t know how good they’d be before the season, but now they have aspirations of a Provincial (and city) Championship. Not finishing the games strong is not the way to reach these goals! It’s not the girls responsibility to coddle the other teams. The plan is to keep these girls together and go to the Western Championships next year. The coach doesn’t let-up on the other teams and he sure as hell doesn’t let-up on our girls regardless of the record. He rewards and punishes them based on their performance, not how badly they’ve beaten the other team.
    In my view, this defines “fair”.
    Someone please explain to me how teaching kids not to “finish strong” benefits our kids? Would we ever ask a distance runner not to “finish strong” and push to the end because of a large lead? Grab a brain people!

  29. “I know of one really great high school football player whose coach would always pull him from the game when the score got lopsided…”
    Was it to give the other team a chance to catch up, or to rest his/her star player and reduce his injury risk so the team could be competitive and dominant for the entire season (I take it he led his team all the way to the championship)?

  30. I think the soccer league has too narrow a view of the lessons learned sports. Getting your butt kicked by another team is embarrassing and frustrating. The ability to show up for the next game anyway is what builds character and resilience. It also fosters skills like self-depreciating humor and a sense of perspective.
    The team balancing idea might be alright in the younger years but eventually the players need to be tiered into fun teams and competitive teams. It is the only way that exceptional players can improve their skills. Meanwhile, the average players still get exercise and learn about teamwork in a lower pressure environment.

  31. Good point Davenport. I can’t speak to “rec” leagues becuase they don’t continue past 9yrs old here (I think).

  32. Whatever happened to chess clubs for kids who aren’t athletic? I have three sons, two were boxers, and one didn’t have a competitive bone in his body. There are other options, and he chose music.
    These recreational leagues were designed to promote physical fitness. Maybe they should just quit keeping score. The Chinese use Tai-Chi to keep their kids active. Their kids don’t seem to have problems with self esteem. As soon as you create a system of keeping score, you create winners and losers.
    Maybe the chess club should have a rule that younger players aren’t allowed to win in fewer than 5 moves.

  33. RE: I take it he led his team all the way to the championship…
    Several championships. The coach was a good coach who liked to play his second string when the opportunity arose.

  34. I’m reading lots of opinions, but wonder how many have kids in non-rep leagues. When you see the little pirhanas coached by seriously unfulfilled adults running up scores and only giving their less talented players minimal playing time you begin to understand, if not accept, the rationale. Everyone wants their kids to excel, but for whatever reasons, kids mature at different rates and have different skill levels. In house leagues, all the kids are supposed to play, they are not meritocracies. That’s what Rep soccer is for. The house leagues are for development and for fun and excercise (Beats the hell out of Wii). In my 12 years of having kids in soccer we’ve had awesome coaches and terrible coaches (all volunteers), but the kids have always had fun and slept well post-game. My eldest just tore her ACL in house game and will probably miss all her senior year high school athletics. My middle child is 1-5 and a far less skilled player than many of his team mates, but because he gets playing time he is improving with every game and practice. Of course SoccerBC is doing all it can to breed future olympians as opposed to ensuring participation and is destroying the soccer culture in my city, which only ever came into being because mothers and fathers did it for love of their kids. Now it’s run by sport bureaucrats and no one is happy and participation is declining…go figure.

  35. I guess the big challenge would be to see how many goals you can rack up in the first half, followed by how many times you can score on yourself in the second to bring it down to the requisite five point difference.

  36. I’ve coached on the losing end of lop-sided games, much worse than 0-5. Yes the kids are discouraged at the loss, but no more so than losing a close one in the final seconds. Those almost hurt more because they were sooooooooo close to winning. Now when we win (or even score a goal), they appreciate it that much more. They know they really earned it. The kids see the effort the other team puts in and they now have a great example of how the game should be played.
    If I should ever see a coach obviously hold his team back, I’ll be very disappointed.

  37. As a goalkeeper with a shutout going I object.
    As a former soccer coach (certified and everything) this “rule” is crap. First of all, if a team is down by 5 to nil, you know you aren’t going to get any effort from the players. For them the game is over and they are just going through the motions to keep the parent fans sated. If this is a league game just call it a day and shake hands, if it is in-house play then change up the teams a bit and turn it into a learning clinic.
    I’ll be the league will insist that everyone will get a trophy at the year end “Awards Night” too.

  39. Peter- You seem to have issues with competitive sports. “Pirhanas”? “unfulfilled adults”? Wow, you shouldn’t be a coach, in any sport. Let me guess, are you a teacher?
    It still boils down to the fact soccer keeps score. If you keep score, there has to be a winner. If you want a pure recreational activity, quit keeping score.

  40. Aaron- I meant no offense toward your kid’s sport. I’m a fan of all martial arts. I’m also aware of the huge differences in rules, from one to another. Is there any rule regarding running up the score in karate? If it’s anything like boxing, the match is stopped when someone is outclassed. Of course, martial arts aren’t mainstream sports, like soccer. Not many “sensitive” people slip through the filters.

  41. Actually the biggest idiots in most of these schools sports activities are the parents.
    When I was young we played soccer at school as part of the gym program, kicked the ball around, had fun, sometimes kept score, sometimes didn’t. My parents never came to watch, or get in the way, and I grew up perfectly normal.
    My son plays soccer in one of the local leagues, and each Saturday at the matches parents are everywhere, like locusts, screaming, hollering, etc. as if they have have nothing better to do with their lives. It’s as if they refuse to grow up.
    I watch the games once in a while to let my son know that I’m glad he is getting some fun and exercise, but the number of parents who are truly obsessed with their kids activities is startling.

  43. Yeah TJ, Walter Gretzky was a real idiot.
    In my expirience these “idiots” are more involved in thier kid’s everday lives than any others I’ve met.

  45. As an ex-coach I have been on both sides of lopsided games. With children a reasonable coach switches things up, moves defenders up to forward, changes out goalies, and generally handicaps the team in a way that doesn’t ruin the game. Defenders love to play up front but rarely score no matter how hard they try 🙂

  46. dp, you seem to lack the capacity to read and understand. There are leagues and specialty programs for “elite” players. House/rec leagues by definition are not the venues. They are fun leagues. Sure the kids want to win, but there is no shame in losing to better coached or more skilled team. There is however the danger of ruining their joy for the game by the small minority (I’m guessing you’re a member)who utterly miss the point of rec leagues and aspire to be big fish in small ponds. In a world circumscribed by back yards and escorted walks to school, the friendship opportunities and fellowship offered by team sports are a big plus in my children’s development. Somehow I’m not suprised, given your angry tone, that your children are involved in solo, combat oriented sports. As a libertarian I cede you your right to raise your kids as you see fit. I just think they will wind up mini-yous and don’t feel I want my kids to be part of the problem of being misinformed self-righteous ranters. For God’s sake, even Hitler relented and did not slaughter the expedionary force at Dunkirk. If one of the most hated murderers in history can show restraint, surely it’s not beyond the capacity of kid’s soccer coaches!

  47. Homez most of these parents do indeed think they are Gretzky’s father, and that their kid is another Gretzky.
    That’s the truly funny part of it all.
    But Kate’s post is part of a bigger trend where everything is being dumbed down. At our children’s school last year every child got an award at the end-of-year ceremony:
    Child 1 – an award for always smiling
    Child 2 – an award for improving
    Child 3 – an award for helping others
    Child 4 – an award for being quiet in class
    etc. etc.
    I thought most parents would have looked on in shock at such stupidity, but they cheered and clapped and thought it was all wonderful.

  48. There’s only one solution to this rule. Take advantage of it and bend it!
    Pull your goalie and let the other team score on you 5 times. You win!!!

  49. TJ, I, personally, would like an award for Best Person Named Osumashi Kinyobe. : )
    Seriously, I handed out stickers, even treats for my students if they did little things, just as an arbitrary incentive. For really big things, they got a pizza party. It’s called the “carrot and stick method”. If they rowed well, they lived (no, that’s Ben-Hur). My point is they had to sweat it out. We seemed to have lowered the bar for the kids and ourselves. There was a great feeling of joy when one saw the satisfied look on a kid’s face when he got an A he deserved. His self-esteem was raised because he endured.

  50. “Homez most of these parents do indeed think they are Gretzky’s father, and that their kid is another Gretzky.”
    Says you; I disagree. I think Walter G would have been the same whether “The Great One” was great or not.
    Rat
    I disagree (somewhat) with your statement about “good coaches” moving their players around when winning big. That move is okay, but not if your trying to improve your team. Our coach’s job is to improve our team, and that means playing entire games (when possible) with players where they belong. Like Pete pointed-out, Soccer isn’t boxing, there are no KOs. If you don’t let the games play-out as they should, the strong team will never get the late game experience they might need later in the season when they see some stronger teams. It’s our coaches job to prepare the team for tough games. In boxing, too often, big punchers don’t get experience in late rounds and end-up struggling when the competition steps-up. It’s the job of the weaker teams coach to step-it-up and prepare their team better.
    “Rec” leagues don’t work well because there is always a coach willing to go a little further than the next guy. The only way to eliminate this unbalance it to ensure that all coaches at all levels are trying their hardest to win(within the rules, no short benches, save that for Div 1). Tier the leagues; problem solved!

Proudly powered by WordPress & Skyrocket Themes

MENU

Navigation