Well, two things should be blatantly obvious to even the most dyed in the wool socialist now.
- Civil Servants don’t pay taxes,
- A country, any country is damned foolish to tie their currency and economy to another finance department.
Well, two things should be blatantly obvious to even the most dyed in the wool socialist now.
And what the markets are also saying today is that British uncertainty will be enough to push the markets into FUD mode. (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.)
If somehow the British cons pull out a majority you may well see a roar back tomorrow. But I think we are in line for roller coaster markets.
And what the markets are also saying today is that British uncertainty will be enough to push the markets into FUD mode. (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.)
If somehow the British cons pull out a majority you may well see a roar back tomorrow. But I think we are in line for roller coaster markets.
Third lesson: Unions == bad.
Good for our government to already announce they are already freezing spending.
Good for our government to resist the bank tax proposed by the EU and the USA.
Once again proving the only equality socialism and its foot soldiers, the labour unions, can create is equality of misery.
And, once again proving that socialism works until you run out of other people’s money.
Next move in Canada? Cut off equalization payments to the People’s Republic of Quebec.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Life is a series of lessons.
Lessons will be repeated until learned.
Note to Bob Rae.
Nobody, anywhere has proven they can spend their way into prosperity.
Stimulus package, anyone?
This will spill over to the rest of the EU troubled countries. What ever scheme they cook up to slap a band aid on this will only delay the enevitable lead to a world wide meltdown.
When it does happen and the world bankers call in their loans how will Ontario and Quebec ever pay off thier debts?
The left will have a fun battle continuing to try to justify expanding the welfare nanny state with tax revenue plumiting.
I am buying gold and I have a buddy that is hoarding buying guns and ammunition so I figured I have all my bases covered :^)
Tax policy Greek style….
Greeks dodge taxes…the Black Market is the main economy.
Unions and Big Government create a deficit….raise taxes….
Raise taxes and tax evasion increases….
I read today that 340 in Athens reported having a swimming pool—–satelite imagry indicates 7000+.
Buy gold, get a shotgun.
Greece will just be right back where it started from in the next few years.
If anything, we should have learned from the former Soviet Union how NEVER to do things.
No such luck.
Dear Dan, if your “buddy” has the guns and ammo then he can get the gold if he needs it.
Fred:
Get a life eh!
Any country is damned foolish to tie their currency and finances to basketcase socialist workers’ paradises like Greece, Italy or Spain. Germany should cut them all loose. In fact, that’s what will probably have to happen for this chaos to end.
Joe,
Already got me a great one . . . 🙂
Wheeeeeeeee ….. it’s starting !!!
Kipling:
‘ …
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: “If you don’t work you die.”
Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrew
And the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was true
That All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make Four
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.
As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of Man
There are only four things certain since Social Progress began.
That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,
And the burnt Fool’s bandaged finger goes wabbling back to the Fire;
And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!’
Turkey is helping.
General Souvlaki will come to the rescue and take credit(nice MSM words) for the “plunge”, experts say.
…-
“Dow Plunges Most Since 1987 Before Paring Losses; Euro Tumbles
The Dow Jones Industrial Average posted its biggest intraday loss since the market crash of 1987, the euro slid to a 14-month low and yields on Greek, Spanish and Italian bonds surged on concern European leaders aren’t doing enough to stem the region’s debt crisis. U.S. Treasuries surged.
The New York Stock Exchange told CNBC that there were no system errors during the Dow’s plunge as speculation of bad trades swirled through the market. The Nasdaq OMX Group Inc. said it is working with other markets to review the plunge.
It’s panic selling,” said Burt White, chief investment officer at LPL Financial in Boston, which oversees $379 billion. “There’s concern that the European situation might cool down global growth and freeze the credit markets.”
(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2508196/posts
…-
“Trading error blamed for market plunge: CNBC
NEW YORK (Reuters) – A trading error at a major firm was to blame for the day’s market plunge, CNBC reported on Thursday.
Separately, Nasdaq said it was working with other major markets to review the market activity that occurred between 2:00 p.m. and 3:00 p.m.
The exchange said in an e-mail it would advise when more information was known.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2508204/posts
Buy gold, get a shotgun.
Posted by: Mike McCormick at May 6, 2010 3:52 PM
Aye, and teach our kids and grandkids how to shoot! After all, they’re the ones who are going to be stuck with our public debt.
The problem is that a civil service – and that includes all municipal, provincial, federal and academic employees – lives in the virtual rather than the real world.
Their work is not linked to any objective result. Their salaries, benefits, pensions -all come from some amorphous virtual entity,a mataphysical rather than actual entity: The Government.
Their work is not linked to any objective result; they get paid whether they submit the report, mark the papers, resurface the road, take in subway tickets.
This isolation from reality is further increased by the public unions, which have become massive corporations focused only on increasing their own executive and administrative wealth. As parasites, unions feed off and require ever-increasing dues and thus, ever-increasing wage levels.
The existence of these unions has moved the public service out of any idea of ‘Service’ and into one entirely and totally focused only on the well-being of these elite workers.
This public service mentality has moved into another set of Privileged in our modern welfare states: those who do not even pretend to work; who are permanently ‘assisted’ by the state with supplements to income, benefits, etc. This set has increased exponentially over the years.
Add to that, a second set whose incomes are low but manageable – and we find that the welfare state even here, supplements their income with benefits and encourages early retirement.
Where does the money come from? That amorphous metaphysical Agent: the Government – viewed as some kind of eternal all-knowing, all-powerful immaterial force. That’s the virtual ideology.
The reality of course is that the money comes from taxes. From real people. However, in the welfare state, when taxes on these two levels of population – the civil service and the lower middle class – start to rise, the black market moves in to remove their role in the economy from the tax.
The black market in the civil service can be understood as the extra non-taxable benefits: the car expenses, the conference trips that double as vacations, the computer etc equipment provided for home use, the non-taxable monies available for ‘business expenses’ of lunches, dinners, etc.
The black market in the lower middle class is the cash-for-goods exchanges, and these increase.
Who is left to pay? Corporations, which are vilified as evil and thus, it is felt justified to take their money. And, the basic middle class who don’t have the civil service access to that non-taxable lifestyle and work in the private sector.
This tax base is unsustainable. Yet, as we see in Greece, it is these two Entitled Sets of People who are rioting, murdering people who work in banks (the ‘source of money?) – and insisting that that Virtual World remain dominant.
You guys didn’t see the DOW dropped 1000 points in half an hour today, then bounced. DOW is down 347 points at the close today.
The EURO is getting -crushed- today, presently trading at 1 Euro= $1.26 USD.
I just heard on Bloomberg radio, Pym Fox says the TSX went down 3/10ths of 1%. Canada is rock f-ing solid.
People are killing each other in the streets of Greece today with sticks and rocks, and burning down buildings, because their pensions are getting cut.
Compare and contrast with the USA where Tea Parties are also taking to the streets, but far from burning things down they are singing the national anthem and cleaning up their own garbage when they go home.
Which doesn’t change the socialists of the DemocRat party calling them terrorists.
This, as they say, is the real freakin’ deal. We are looking at a EURO at par with the US dollar or lower within maybe a month or so. We are looking at a -major- repudiation of socialism in Britain today with the election, and probably again in Germany next week. We are looking at the Chicoms hitting the wall like a runaway train in the next 6 to 9 months as their centrally planned economy runs out of air to inflate the big frickin’ bubble they’re blowing.
In November we are looking at the DemocRats losing every incumbent seat up for re-election in the USA.
If we are lucky the Lefties lose big in Europe and the USA (and Canada please!) and more conservative people clean up the mess those retard Lefties made, with some serious shrinkage of governments world wide.
If we aren’t lucky we get a European war and an American depression, with mega famine in the East.
Barf.
How do children act when they are told the party is over?
Do they throw a fit and wreck things?
How do adults react when told the party is over?
Do they roll up their sleeves and get to work cleaning up?
Welcome to the nanny state.
I don’t think it’s much more complicated than that.
When I watch the riots on TV I get a picture in my mind of a child in a high chair throwing a tantrum and dumping his bowl on his head because he has to eat his beans.
The pouting stage should be next…
Ummmh
I guess that 30% or so deductions on my paycheques is not taxes? Sorry but civil servents pay full tax and they can’t claim a damm thing either. So I can’t buy tickets to a hockey game and claim it as a tax writeoff or golf or airline tickets, or anything.
My “virtual civil servant” world consist of people who get really pissed if you do not get their project reviewed and any required permits out the door in a reasonable time and will be on the phone yelling in my ear or my bosses. I am not complaining, I like the fact that people will complain if we don’t do our jobs.
The lesson here is that not every civil servent job is the same, some are very much involved with the public and others are not.
Ha. You can talk about market sentiment improving all you want until a 126 point technical glitch triggers a 1000 point freefall.
“Ummmh
I guess that 30% or so deductions on my paycheques is not taxes?”
No, it’s money the government already had that it doesn’t pay you. Nothing changes hands.
–Kevin
*
sounds like this place should actually be called “grease”…
“Experts point out that ducking taxes is part of
a broader culture of bribery and corruption
that is deeply entrenched. Bribing government
officials to grease the wheels of bureaucracy
is so standard that people know the rates.”
*
Colin at 5:19 PM
zoooom, rite over your head
and a heck of a demonstration of “lefty” think
no, you do not, repeat, NOT pay taxes
Where is Hercules when we need him. The stables are so full of horse shit that even the horse are choking.
Socialists/unionists are evil children and they aren’t going to change their minds about anything. They simply continue to blame bad mommy and daddy for not raising their allowances fast enough. And they don’t plan to ever move out and get their own apartment.
They must be forced to comply and resistance must become futile. Then we may have a chance to clean up the mess. What are the odds?
Just for the record, I am not the Colin who posted @ 5:19 p.m.
Colin: Please, please quit your government job and start doing something that produces wealth instead of moving it around or sopping it up. Get all your colleagues to do the same. You might be surprised at the difference it makes.
colin – as noted, your ‘taxes’ are actually the reason why your wages, benefits and pensions are so much higher than someone in the private sector.
Your wages, benefits and pensions, as a total, are 30% higher than that of the private sector worker. Get it?
And, you can get yelled at, if you are front line, but, the delays, the errors, etc..don’t result in your service being rejected by the Customer…who chooses to go to another service provider. You have a monopoly, the customer can’t go elsewhere. In the private sector, delays and what the customer considers bad service, could bankrupt your company.
And you, no matter how much the customer yells, can’t lose your job. Someone in the private sector can. Get it?
Then, your unions insist on wage increases that are double that of the private sector..and all those benefits and pensions and sick days…all out of reach of so many in the private sector, and not part of your taxable income.
It’s an elite class that feeds off the real taxpayers.
Good Rant Phantom – Well said ET.
Well that’s the thing isn’t it Neo? Greece was crooked as all hell, -always has been-. Everybody knew all along that they were crooked. Their crookedness is legend in Europe.
Got a spot in the Eurozone anyway, didn’t they?
Frankly I don’t think a lot of Europe has reeeeealy gotten past feudalism, down deep in their hearts. Peasants are still peasants, nobles are still nobles and still call the shots. Democracy is kind of a virtual overlay on top of the -real- system of cronyism, family connections and payola.
Same as Ontario, sort of. Anybody still wondering why Indian smugglers keep getting such a hands-off tratment from Dalton McGuinty’s regime is encouraged to look at Greece and think about following the money.
No Colin, you don’t pay taxes.
You just give some of them back.
The unproductive bits sure have a hard time understanding the productive bits.
Odd that.
Syncro
Lots of union trashing goin on. Kate, as a request, would like to see an article on Bill 80 and how your readers are reacting to it. Seems to me one union is trying to swallow the current regime of the Building Trades of Saskatchewan. Keep it up, you’re doing a great job.
O’socialism is too big to fail.
Ugh, Kemo Sabay.
“eventually a scaling down of the welfare state — and indeed the size of the Western state itself — will be necessary. There’s simply not enough money to sustain it. A wave of change, but not the kind of change that President Obama imagined, is following right behind the financial tsunamis.”
…-
“Midnight Express
The concern rippling through the financial markets is only incidentally to do with Greece. The Greek economy is very small relative to the global economy. A commenter called it “a rounding error”. The significance of the Greek debt crisis is the light it sheds on a bigger problem of European debt, which this diagram from the NYT illustrates.
That is the can of worms that is now opening up. Whether or not the sudden fall in the Dow Jones was exacerbated by a technical error should not obscure the main problem. The world has been living beyond its means. As Real Clear Markets explains:
Virtually every country in the EU spends more than it takes in and has made long-term fiscal promises to an aging work force that it can’t keep. A little over a year ago, economist Jagadeesh Gokhale, writing for the National Center for Policy Analysis, produced a pithy – and scary – summation of the fiscal challenges faced by Europe. Don’t read it if you have trouble sleeping.
“The average EU country,” he concluded, “would need to have more than four times (434%) its current annual gross domestic product in the bank today, earning interest at the government’s borrowing rate, in order to fund current policies indefinitely.”
In other words, Europe would have to have the equivalent of roughly $60 trillion in the bank today to fund its very general welfare benefits in the future. Of course, it doesn’t.
Things haven’t changed much since that study was done. So suppose they don’t put aside all that money. What then? By 2035, Gokhale reckons, the EU will need an average tax rate of 57% to pay for its lavish welfare state.
Today, Greece is only the tip of a very large iceberg. Portugal, Spain, Italy and Ireland together owe $3.9 trillion in short- and medium-term debts, an amount larger than their combined GDP, estimated last year at $3.3 trillion.
Only a realignment of spending with receipts can cure the patient. An analyst at the Economist exemplifies the problem European policymakers find themselves in. He argues that by refusing cut Greece loose they have made Portugal and Spain suspect. But they were also afraid that by cutting Greece loose they would make Portugal and Spain suspect. It’s a classic double bind.
This is the contradiction in the rescue plan. EU governments and the IMF refuse to discuss the possibility of an eventual rescheduling of Greek debt for fear that it would spark uncontrolled contagion. In fact, the logic may increasingly be the opposite. By refusing to admit that Greece faces an obvious solvency problem, whereas Spain, Portugal and Ireland do not, Europe’s policymakers have made it harder to draw a clear distinction between Greece and the rest. As a result contagion has intensified…
But Portugal and Spain are suspect — as well as many of the larger EU economies too. Their problems can be fixed to be sure. But they cannot be fixed by any kind of bridging loan, “put” or ’shock and awe’ intervention. None of that will work in the long run. However things are stabilized in the short term, eventually a scaling down of the welfare state — and indeed the size of the Western state itself — will be necessary. There’s simply not enough money to sustain it. A wave of change, but not the kind of change that President Obama imagined, is following right behind the financial tsunamis. All of his ill-timed “investments”, like bloated Federal Health care, immigration “reform”, and cap-and-trade have come at a time when they simply can’t be borne. Institutions like featherbedded unions, monopolies and obsolete gatekeepers should view recent events in the same way that dinosaurs who looked up at an enormous descending meteor should. The enormous tower of quangos, EU commissions, massive agencies, vast entitlements is trembling beneath that most quotidian of assaults: lack of supply, “like a cut flower in a vase; fair to see yet doomed to die.””
http://pajamasmedia.com/richardfernandez/2010/05/06/midnight-express/#comments
Die already.
Syncro
Amazing how many here don’t understand how the economy works. Colin isn’t just giving some tax back, he’s paying taxes like everybody else.
The only person in an economy who is offering original value-added worth is the individual who constructs something from raw materials. All other value-added players are just exchange trading on an artificial value. The government is no different than a very high percentage of other business. You do receive value added for tax dollars, in the form of services, products like roads, clean water, and thousands of other things. The only difference between the government and a private contractor, is that you don’t get to opt out of the purchase. Many of you wouldn’t have businesses, staff or a personal economy for your private business, if it wasn’t for goverment purchases.
And it would surprise you to learn how many Canadians ride on your public roads for free. Especially amongst those who run private companies that trade on “value-added services”.
Yes, unions have evolved from worker protection into a manipulative entity that is not only parasitic to taxpayers but also to workers.
Realistically though, it will be next to impossible to get rid of them. There is some ways to inject some sanity into public service unions. For instance, it would be nice to see union membership become voluntary. Benchmark wages to private sector pay. Make better use of essential service legislation. The main solution is to make government significantly smaller because the unions’ power has grown exponentially as government got bigger.
Skip
What do you suppose the government is purchasing things with…..rainbow flavored unicorn farts?
Syncro
Synchro – the same unicorn farts Walmart uses… THe government trades in the money supply the same ways most other businesses do. The only difference is they can inject “exchange-currency” into the economy with a much simpler raw material conversion, if need be, by converting some trees.
Skip
So who do you think is gonna come out on top?
Wal=Mart or the government?
Syncro
win-win situation. The most most civil servants can afford is walmart, so you’re subsidizing some fatcats in Texas, and a whole bunch of local peons along the way, including a few real producers of new wealth. Not many though.
Skip;Govt workers dont pay taxes,they get paid taxes.In fact,I would like to know how many non govt workers it takes to pay the salary and benefits of one govt worker.In case you dont know it,there were NO taxes in the Soviet union as every one worked for the govt.The govt said what your expenses were and the govt said what your renumeration was.
And Boss Soros is laughing all the way to the bank (which he now owns too) The man reminds me like a combination of all the Bond villains and Old Man Potter from “It’s a Wonderful Life”
I hope Clarence shows up soon
Gee, maybe I should test your theory, I will elect to be paid in full and then refuse to pay the “requested” taxes at tax time because someone on the internet says I don’t have to. What could possibly go wrong…….
Actually I can lose my job, it’s hard but not impossible. Holding up multi-million dollar project without just cause is not good for one’s career.
My wages are higher? Umm let me see as a Rescue specialist (11 year of service) with dive pay I was making $37,000 in 1998, dive pay for zero vis and confined space diving was $700 a year before the ‘mythical tax” was removed.
My current job pays decently but with no real industry equivalent it’s hard to rate, it is generally less than the consultants I deal with.
Ah yes the government monopoly. I guess having almost every parking space taken over by the same company who I would dump in second if I had a choice is not a monopoly? The first thing a company tries to do when it reaches a certain level is to prevent any competition. They exists on both sides of the fence. By the way I notice that companies rarely complain about government waste when it’s their time at the trough. Government does some things well, like major infrastructure projects that will take decades to pay off or roles like SAR. My department also makes a fair bit of it’s revenue from rent.
As for my wages, post taxes and other deductions about 95% goes straight back into the economy. You may think because of my job I am a boil on the arse of humanity, but I can bet there is someone else out there that thinks the same of you.
There is a lot wrong with government, but then there is a lot wrong with private enterprise as well, just the price you pay when dealing with humans. Some of them will always find ways to play the system.
“The problem is that a civil service – and that includes all municipal, provincial, federal and academic employees – lives in the virtual rather than the real world. “Posted by: ET at May 6, 2010 5:55 PM
The problem is: there are too many of the bastards.
Never, in the history of human toil, have so many done so little at the expense of so few.
Colin- You just aren’t catching on. Your paycheque is someone else’s tax. The only reason you have deductions is to make work for people in another government department. It really should be illegal to create all these layers of taxation. It should be a simple ledger, revenue(tax) in, expenses(including wages) out.
If I’m not mistaken, there used to be deductions on EI payments. Maybe that’s still the case? I remember wondering WTF purpose this served.
I just remembered, about 10 years ago I did some work for the Orphan Well Association. They’re a quasi-government agency, in Alberta, that takes over oil and gas wells, when an operator goes tits-up. They try to present themselves as a non-government organization, that is funded by the industry. In truth, they get most of their funding from government grants, and their directors are actually ERCB employees. Of course, my knowledge of the structure is a bit dated.
At the time I was working for the OWA, I was not required to collect GST on my invoices. This made sense, since they were spending tax dollars for services rendered. About half way through the contract, they decided this was not good for appearances, and we had to begin collecting the tax. They converted the association to a society, (or foundation, not sure) to further muddy the waters.
There are so many layers of taxation, and government, that the next generation of Canadians and Americans might have trouble understanding what we’re complaining about.
There are so many layers of taxation, and government, that the next generation of Canadians and Americans might have trouble understanding what we’re complaining about.
Posted by: dp at May 7, 2010 12:15 AM
I’ve complained for many, many years that the tax code in Canada is a national disgrace. The national tax code has grown over the years, with rules and exceptions pasted on, where now it’s an unrecognizable juggernaut.
While it won’t happen overnight, the goal should be to move to a simple, flat, single-layered tax code. I won’t hold my breath waiting for a political party to advocate such a policy.