77 Replies to “Y2Kyoto: Google It!”

  1. http://tinyurl.com/9weqhe
    Editors comment…
    Supported by in-depth scientific evidence, Singer and Avery present the compelling concept that global temperatures have been rising mostly or entirely because of a natural cycle. Unstoppable Global Warming explains why we’re warming, why it’s not very dangerous, and why we can’t stop it anyway.
    Reader’s comment…
    The range of evidence the authors bring in to characterizes the 1,500 year cycle is stunning and their end-of-chapter notes (over 500) make this book the obvious starting point to study the whole issue of global warming / cooling. They have also included a well written 11 page glossary.
    The chapter on “The Sun-Climate Connection” was probably written before the publication of Hendrik Svensmark and team’s experimental paper on low level cloud formation “Experimental evidence for the role of ions in particle nucleation under atmospheric conditions” (17 August 2006). Although they cite his previous work this latest paper adds experimental verification under controlled laboratory conditions for the solar winds participation in the formation of low level (high albedo) clouds. Once again carbon dioxide was conspicuous as a non-participant.
    Those who have adopted the religion of anthropogenic global warming will not like the material presented in this summary, however science does march on and experimental evidence overrules hypotheses even if embodied in expensive computer simulations.

  3. Well, seeing that “Global Warming” takes place on a regular basis each year – winter to summer, and over a far greater temperature range than the IPCC predicts where are the awful effects each year ?. Shock and horror about predicted GW effects on the Great Barrier Reef neglect the normal temperature rise in waters South to North. Again, the GBR seems to cope very well as do human populations – want to have a 2 degree rise in temperature ?, just move 100 or so km north or south as appropriate. Overpowering all else though, is that the advocates of global warming are trying to perpetuate the biggest scam in human history on the rest of us, they are getting more shrill as their position is seen to be false.

  4. Deezflowers:
    Obviously you don’t live in Alberta where they want to pour co2 down shafts of old mines costing the tax payer Billions.
    As I said before, look who’s promoting this. Its the same cast of characters who taught us in school of the coming New Ice Age. There was talk back then of shutting up Global cooling as today. You have the same dingbats crying for people to stop or even jailed for exercising free speech to what most people I know, consider a bogus money scam. When the largest names in money like Rockford & Mo Strong back this, you know the con is on.
    The only people who are going to suffer now, are the same folks who tried the other weather rip off. In the end science itself comes into question. Think Cold fusion!
    Look at the sources of this myth, particularly the UN.
    JMO

  5. “Weather is the day-to-day state of the atmosphere, and is a chaotic non-linear dynamical system. On the other hand, climate — the average state of weather — is fairly stable and predictable. Climate includes the average temperature, amount of precipitation, days of sunlight, and other variables that might be measured at any given site. However, there are also changes within the Earth’s environment that can affect the climate.” From Wikipedia via Deezflowers 2009 4:49 PM
    “The climate system is particularly challenging since it is known that components in the system are inherently chaotic, and there are central components which affect the system in a non-linear manner and potentially could switch the sign of critical feedbacks. The non-linear processes include the basic dynamical response of the climate system and the interactions between the different components. These complex, non-linear dynamics are an inherent aspect of the climate system. Amongst the important non-linear processes are the role of clouds, the thermohaline circulation, and sea ice. There are other broad non-linear components, the biogeochemical system and, in particular, the carbon system, the hydrological cycle, and the chemistry of the atmosphere.”
    http://www.grida.no/publications/other/ipcc_tar/?src=/CLIMATE/IPCC_TAR/WG1/516.htm

  6. What’s all this BS about Sydney? I live here and short of a two week hot spell during the spring, it’s been a bloody cool summer.

  9. Crispytoast: try doing a google scholar search..type in climate or climate change, or even climate change myth…let us know what you find.
    Kimw: I suggest a little more reading/research prior to discussion.
    One thing to think about is the whole world doesn’t have seasons.
    Revnant Dream: Who wants to pour it down mineshafts? The government? Or private corporations? Or is it the government paying an externality of corporations with tax payer dollars.
    johnlee: Your article said nothing different from the one I posted.
    Example: weather is a component of climate…
    one article said this:
    “Weather is the day-to-day state of the atmosphere, and is a chaotic non-linear dynamical system.
    the other:
    “The climate system is particularly challenging since…. COMPONENTS in the system are inherently chaotic (weather), and there are central components which affect the system in a non-linear manner (weather)”
    one said this:
    “Weather is the day-to-day state of the atmosphere, and is a chaotic non-linear dynamical system”
    the other:
    “Amongst the important non-linear PROCESSES…role of clouds (weather), the thermohaline circulation (broad scale weather), and sea ice. There are other broad non-linear COMPONENTS, the biogeochemical system and, in particular, the carbon system, the hydrological cycle (weather – precipitation), and the chemistry of the atmosphere.”
    The Aussie stuff was to remind people that just because it’s cold here doesn’t mean it’s cold everywhere. From what I’ve read, it would appear that Aussie is having a heat wave, and that its mean temperature has risen over the past century.

  10. From what I’ve read, it would appear that Aussie is having a heat wave, and that its mean temperature has risen over the past century.
    Have you ever considered that it may well be that you don’t read enough, or at least read well with enough comprehension?

  14. G’day. I haven’t been down for over 20 years … is the Rocks still above water?
    Speaking of dingos, are they drowning like the polar bears?

  15. “The season’s won’t change with climate, they are a result of our position on the globe. Most fertile land is in the prairies, where springs and summers are warm enough for good agriculture, other than that fertile land is at a premium, BC doesn’t have a whole lot, and in the east it’s contained to the St. Lawrence flood plains.
    Posted by: Deezflowers”
    Yes Deez, the seasons will change with climate change. Summers will be longer with global warming, last spring frosts earlier and first fall frosts later, summer nights warmer and winters milder. The reverse is true with global cooling. Do a little research (Wiki is not reliable, do real research) into past climate fluctuations. You’ll find that the warm periods (warmer than now) have been times of plenty for the human race, and cool periods have been times of hunger and starvation, war and pestilence, weather extremes and crop failures. Don’t take my word for it, do the research.

  16. Ural: The rocks are still above water and I’ve yet to see an elusive dingo, however have bumped into kangaroos as big as me, bloody frightening!
    The heat wave is in Queensland, Noosa, Brisbane, etc. Normal temps for that area. Back here in Bondi, the temps are cool, 24 for a high today, so for someone to say that Sydney is going through a heat wave, I’d seriously question where they get their data from.

  17. johnlee: Your article said nothing different from the one I posted
    Deezflowers at January 10, 2009 10:33 PM
    Deezflower where does your Wiki article(“Weather is the day-to-day state of the atmosphere, and is a chaotic non-linear dynamical system. On the other hand, climate — the average state of weather — is fairly stable and predictable. Climate includes the average temperature, amount of precipitation, days of sunlight, and other variables that might be measured at any given site. However, there are also changes within the Earth’s environment that can affect the climate.” )article note this:
    “These complex, non-linear dynamics are an inherent aspect of the climate system”
    ‘Inherent’ as in “existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute”
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/inherent

  19. Deez…whatever
    So, let’s take your insubstantiated article and counter with another (just click through the images):
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthpicturegalleries/4207985/Animal-pictures-of-the-week-a-special-cold-weather-edition.html?image=1
    So, you manage to find an article that says australia is warming but manage to miss that almost everywhere in Europe (and this applies to the northern hemisphere in general) we are freezing our nuts off.
    In reality, it’s called climate and us “deniers” are saying that it is always changing. It is you zealots that keep saying that the whole damn planet should have constant climate.
    It is you zealots that are advocating your position, thus it is up to you to provide a damn-near bullet proof theory. It is NOT up to the rationale world to provide a complete counter theory, all we need to do is poke holes in yours. Frankly, that is all too easy when you have Al Gore as spokesman and hansen/mann as lead scientists. Why don’t you stop your nonsense and look at climate audit (if you can understand it) for a quick glimpse of the glaring holes in just one aspect of AGW theory (i.e. data collection and provision).
    Just like every zealot out there, you conveniently point to those stories that support your POV (no matter how full of BS) and ignore anything that doesn’t.
    As for us “deniers”, if you peruse SDA archives you will find that she links to a lot of pro-agw stories (and posters like to “de-construct” those) as well as con-agw stories (and we like to “de-construct” the crappy ones here too).
    You also manage to keep pointing back to media sources as references after saying that you don’t trust them!
    Again, I know that you a simply incapable of understanding your hypocrisy so I really don’t expect any glimmer of understanding or logic to emerge from your postings.
    In this regard, you and John Cross must be related (hmmm, same MACs??) as you consistently manage to keep posting the same fallacies regardless of how many times it is shown they are false. Really, while I may be an “AGW denier”, you guys are the “reality deniers”.

  20. Dirtman: No, seasons won’t change, the length of daylight on any given day is not determined by the temperature or any other climatic variable. They are determined by the rotation of the earth. What you call “longer summers” will just be warmer springs and falls.
    Wiki is perfectly reliable as an initial source. Tell me, where do you do your research? Do you use primary sources?
    multirec: http://www.secondsout.com/World/news.cfm?ccs=225&cs=51545
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10550911
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24881875-5013404,00.html
    AUSTRALIA is in the grip of a heatwave that yesterday gave Sydney its hottest day in two years and Perth its 10th consecutive day of 32C or hotter.
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24881878-5006784,00.html
    An emergency was declared in the Southern Highlands, southwest of Sydney, and residents were warned to brace for further outbreaks today. The fires come after three days of sweltering heat, in which temperatures have climbed above 40C
    http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24875540-5001021,00.html
    The heat is back with a vengeance this year. Temperatures up to 41C are expected in Sydney’s western suburbs today – on the back of yesterday’s 39C.
    johnlee: The wiki article does not directly say that “weather is within climate”, but I believe that’s a given or at least implied from “climate — the average state of weather”.
    Frechie77: I used the article from Aussie BECAUSE IT’S SUMMER THERE!
    Just what made you believe that a counter argument is a photo gallery? That’s about the lowest, least credible or useful piece of information you could possibly use. The climate is RELATIVELY STABLE, it has been for the past 10,000 years. Weather, on the other hand, is very variable.
    What is climate audit, I’m guessing some BS website. Here’s a real suggestion, how about you search through PRIMARY RESOURCES on the subject, you know, scientific research papers, and tell me what you find. I use media sources for current event reporting, as in reporting on the current weather, not those that summarize scientific work.
    Trust me, if anybody showed me an ounce of credible information negating the reality of anthropogenic climate change I would recognize it. I kept seeing some BS about the planet having been cooling for the past 10 years, yet no one has answered my request to see a PRIMARY RESOURCE demonstrating it. Like this.
    http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/~td/Recent_papers/Knutson_et_al_J_Clim_2006.pdf
    http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/303/5663/1499
    http://www.pnas.org/content/103/39/14288.abstract

  21. Deeznuts @12:29 “…Just what made you believe that a counter argument is a photo gallery? That’s about the lowest, least credible or useful piece of information you could possibly use….”
    Well, you better tell CNN, BBC, CBC, etc cause that’s pretty much the norm for news these days.
    “…I used the article from Aussie BECAUSE IT’S SUMMER THERE!…”
    Yah, that tends to be the AGW thing, only ever report on hot summers and ignore the blistering cold winters!
    And really, as you don’t trust the media why does it matter? It is ALL not trustworthy, according to you.
    Really, you don’t know http://www.climateaudit.org ??? If you don’t, then go englighten yourself but methinks you are feigning ignorance here! Steve and crew there are doing a very fine job trying to point out exactly how/why the science behind AGW is so full of BS. It basically comes down to 2 things, accurate and trustworthy data and repeatability. These are the hallmarks of quality science and AGW zealots fall significantly short of the mark on both!
    You want links to science, you want quality summaries, you want fair debate, then this site has it all.
    You want to keep your head up your azz, then don’t bother!

  22. Frenchie77: CNN and the rest are MSM, I ignore it, it is propaganda, largely influenced by the same groups that already shout at us through every other conceivable medium.
    I was only making a comparison, that’s all. The south tends to not get very much attention so I simply brought up the fact that in some places it’s bloody hot.
    It’s not all garbage, you have to take most of it with a large grain of salt, and some of it is just blatant propaganda. A weather report I would classify as being fairly benign, maybe a bit of hysteria/entertainment, but in general the facts tends not to be distorted.
    I will check out the website.

  23. I checked out the site, it’s a good source. There are no claims that climate change is not real, nor that we shouldn’t take action though..at least not from Steve’s sources. I completely agree that it is blown out of proportion by the media, that Al Gore is a tool, that science isn’t perfect, that there’s lots of uncertainty, that climate models are flawed, that science itself is closed minded, that politics and science are intertwined, ect…but I have not found any reliable, logical, information supported with evidence that negates climate change or our effect on the planet (large extinction, if not mass extinction event currently occuring).
    On the highly politicized issue of climate change, however, understanding uncertainties is made difficult when scientists advocating for action oversell the predictive capabilities of climate models, such as those of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). BUT action on climate change makes sense even if many climate scientists oversell predictive capabilities.
    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/06/17/overheated-claims.aspx
    http://www.cejournal.net/?p=607

  24. “No, seasons won’t change, the length of daylight on any given day is not determined by the temperature or any other climatic variable. They are determined by the rotation of the earth. What you call “longer summers” will just be warmer springs and falls.
    Wiki is perfectly reliable as an initial source.
    Posted by: Deezflowers”
    The length of daylight is irrelevant. Warmer climate/temperatures extend the growing season earlier in spring and later into fall. That translates into a longer summer. Ignore the “official” dates of summer which have been arbitrarily assigned to the summer solstice and fall equinox. Summers are much shorter and winters much longer here in north central BC than in the hot south Okanagan.
    And remember, we were talking about increased food production, something that comes with warmer temperatures and longer growing seasons.
    As for Wiki being reliable, check this out for an example of how it is be manipulated:
    http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/04/12/wikipedia-s-zealots-solomon.aspx

  25. “No, seasons won’t change, the length of daylight on any given day is not determined by the temperature or any other climatic variable. They are determined by the rotation of the earth. What you call “longer summers” will just be warmer springs and falls.
    Wiki is perfectly reliable as an initial source.
    Posted by: Deezflowers”
    The length of daylight is irrelevant. Warmer climate/temperatures extend the growing season earlier in spring and later into fall. That translates into a longer summer. Ignore the “official” dates of summer which have been arbitrarily assigned to the summer solstice and fall equinox. Summers are much shorter and winters much longer here in north central BC than in the hot south Okanagan.
    And remember, we were talking about increased food production, something that comes with warmer temperatures and longer growing seasons.
    As for Wiki being reliable, puleeze! Back in April the National Post ran an article called Wikipedia’s Zealots. Check it out.

  27. Frenchie77: No, Deezflowers and I are two different people. However I do admire his for sticking to the science, engaging in reasoned discussion, providing supporting background references and staying relatively polite.
    You say that I keep posting the same things that are false. The thing I post more often on this site than any other is what I consider the 3 main starting points for AGW (I can repeat them here if anyone is interested).
    Yet you have not been able to even cast doubt on then, let alone showing they are false. And before you say that you already have, please provide a link to back up your point.
    Regards,
    John

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