When the concept of multiculturalism was introduced to Canadians, most assumed it meant “more pavilions at Folkfest”…
Courtesy Right Girl
(A well-known publisher of swastika imagery taking photographs at the scene denied he was acting in any official capacity for the Liberal party.)
“I might not agree with their message but they should have the right to express their POV.”
A Muslimah, caught on tape, shouting “Back to the ovens” in FT. Lauderdale.
A Muslim threatening a counter-protester in San Francisco with, “I’ll shoot you between the eyes.”
Machine guns on a banned terrorist group’s flags in Toronto.
No, they have no right in our lands to express this type of vile hatred and death threats to non-Muslims. It’s against the law.
It appears that it’s getting to the point that if the government doesn’t enforce the law against these thugs, it becomes incumbent upon the citizens to do so.
It’s time the majority of Canadians made it very clear to all elected representatives that we do not want these vile, filthy haters here. We want an end to Muslim immigration and we want the ring leaders, protesters, militant imams, honour killers and their families and friends deported, post haste.
batb,
True enough about the lefts support of Islamic terrorist organizations. However, the Jews and Christians have the option of becoming dhimmis in Muslim lands. Atheists and polytheists do not. It’s conversion or death.
But then, why let a little problem like your own murder get in the way of righteous hate?
minuteman – from the 16th c to 1948, the area was ruled by the Ottoman Empire; then it passed to Egypt until 67; then Israel to 94, and then Palestine. The area was part of the UN 1948 area set aside for a potential Palestinian state.
Yes, the Palestinians elected the Hamas, not for their terrorism, but because of the corruption of Arafat’s Fatah party; Hamas had essentially taken over social care and services while Fatah was focusing on enriching its leaders. What has happened now is that Hamas has taken control of Gaza, and Fatah has moved to the West Bank – and Hamas has focused only on terrorism. But a key problem is that when Hamas won the election, Israel closed the Gaza borders, effectively destroying its economic viability (Gaza must export or it has no income).
Yes, a major problem in Canada – and Europe – is the policy of multiculturalism, and it’s in our Charter as privilaged and indeed dominant. Effectively it sets up a situation where you can’t evaluate the behaviour and beliefs of an ideology. That’s an incredible restruction. This multicultural clause says that ALL beliefs and ALL behaviour, if operating within a ‘culture’ are closed to judgment, evaluation and are, furthermore, protected.
Clause 15, equality rights, declares that every individual is equal before the law..without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability. OK. As long as we are clear what the term ‘discrimination’ means in actual practice.
BUT then…this same section has a second part, which says that ‘subsection 1 does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its object the amelioration of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including…[all of the above]. What does this mean? It means that a program can privilege someone defined as ‘disadvantaged’ and upset the insistence that we are all ‘equal before the law’.
This clause says that we aren’t equal. And there’s clause 27, which says that the Charter ‘shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Canadians’. I have no idea what this means, other than under it, I could claim a right to behave in such and such a manner…because of my ‘heritage’. So, if I want to have four wives…this clause ought to protect and enable me to do so.
And, we have our Human Rights Commission and Section 13, which prevents us from criticizing and judging the beliefs and behaviour of other cultures. Now – why shouldn’t we critique and judge this behaviour? After all, it’s man-made behaviour; it was developed by man and can be changed by man. But multiculturalism in the Charter and our Human rights sets up ALL beliefs and Behaviour, if operating within a DEFINED GROUP – as immune to anlysis, questions, evaluation, judgment. Incredible.
The Australians do indeed have it right. Since Oc tober 15, 2007, they have an Australian Values Statement, for all visas. The applicant must read a Life-in-Australia booklet, and sign the statement that states that they will respect the Australian way of life and obey the laws of Austrlia. This statement declares that:
Australian society values respect for the…freedom of the individual, rule of law, parliamentary democracy, equality of men an dwomen…mutual respect, tolerance, fair play, equal opportunity. And the English language..and that if they apply for Australian citizenship, it is a ‘common bond’..which involves rights and responsibilities.
What has Ausralia done? It has made a values judgment. It has declared that its values are primary in this land. It hasn’t declared, as has Canada, that ‘all beliefs and behaviour’ are equal, and if you are a minority then your beliefs and behaviour are protected’. No, Australia has made it clear – it has evaluated its identity and selected what is important and non-negotiable. If you want to come to Australia, you accept these values as primary.
This is quite the document – and I wish, strongly, that we would do the same here in Canada. It would be a vital and important change to strengthen our identity and purpose.
Really sad and shocking…I admire Girl on the Right for attending…I wanted to show support but couldn’t bare to put myself near the insane screaming mobs that support terrorists. Too painful to see it in the heart of our cities…the masses of support these irrational lunatics that have no regard for the principles of democracy and freedom who are able to gain the support of most of the media in this country as well as the support of large groups of people who ignore the aggression of hamas and paint the israelis as the bad guys.
I wear a large Israeli blue scarf around my shoulders around Toronto, no flag, now symbols, but even still, the color triggers their rage. Islamic looking individuals spit out their car windows…some people warn me not to wear it over my shoulder as a display…no stones thrown, but that has happened during ramadamed,and the many, many pasty faced vegan type torontonians with their pali-scarf wrapped necks make sure to curl up their thin beady lips in disgust as I walk by.
My only consolation is reading weasel zippers thrice a day……with a heavy topping of the nose on your face.
batb: The trouble with your 80% / 20% ratios is that it so much depends on what message the Church is spreading at the time of attendance. Back when 80% of the people went to Church the Church the church the people attended was preaching Socialism. People didn’t go to Church to be sanctified they went to Church to get their weekly dose of White Guilt. I don’t think we should blame the people for abandoning the Church I think we should blame the Church for going off message.
Joe:
Your background must be either United or Anglican.
My church has never preached socialism and I’m about to go attend right now.
no, irwin daisy, your universal condemnation of ALL Muslims as ‘evil’ is something that I hope we don’t accept in Canada.
I know a lot of Muslim people and none of them fit your stereotype. Ever heard of Salim Mansur, the columnist at the Sun? Tarek Fatah? There’s lots of others who openly reject Islamic fascism. Your insistence that ALL Muslims are fascists is an act of blind hatred similar to that of which you accuse the Islamic fascists.
There are people of the Jewish religion who will make, like you, the same vicious condemnation of Muslims as ‘all evil’. And plenty who do not, and who have friends who are Muslim.
Universals are never reasonable; they are always blind. I think that the Australian solution is an excellent strategy, for it clearly makes a reasoned judgment. It says that ‘our Australian values as we have developed them, are accepted as the non-negotiable values of our country. If you want to come to Australia, you must accept them’. That, to me, is a mature response.
Your hatred of all Muslims is an immature response and won’t solve the problems of this world. We are no longer able to isolate each nation and population; we operate globally and can’t imprison either ourselves or others.
Instead what we must do, is NOT ‘get along’ in the multicultural sense, nor exclude peoples (as we did during the world wars and before) but insist on evaluation, questions, criticism, analysis and judgment. Our judgment of ‘what is a good society’ must be one that shares and develops common values. And we must establish those common values – and stick to them. I don’t think that your solution is a good one because it rests on hatred.
ET why dont you stop bullshitting us.
All the mussies need to go back to ala.
ET – I agree with that there are many moderate Muslims. What I cannot accept about most of them is that they do nothing to condemn what the radicals say and do. It is left up to people like Kate, Kathie and others to raise the alarm bells only to be hunted down by the dangerous hordes in Canada’s Human Rights Tribunals.
Moderate Muslims need to make their voices heard or run the risk of being branded with the radicals. Come on Moderates, where are you and your voices?
In San Francisco the Muslims are shouting two types of slogans. One sanitized version in English and the real thing in Arabic (taqiyya):
“The anti-Israel side had one slogan in English, and several more in Arabic. The English-language slogan: “Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea” – which frankly states the intent to destroy the Jewish state and ethnically cleanse the land.”
“The Arabic slogans: “Itbach al Yahud” (slaughter the Jews), “Falastin balad’na w’al Yahud qalab’na” (Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs), “ba ruh, ba dam, nafdeek ya Falastin” (with our soul, with our blood, we will cleanse you oh Palestine), “al mawt al Yahud” (death to the Jews), “Khaybar Khaybar ya Yahud, jaish-Muhammad saya’ud” (Khaybar Khaybar oh Jews, the army of Muhammad will return).
[That last slogan refers to the battle of Khaybar where the prophet Muhammad opportunistically attacked and slaughtered the Jews who had been hospitable to another Arab tribe. The subsequent sacking of Khaybar by Muhammad’s forces re-energized the brigands who had flocked to his cause, and persuaded several Bedouin tribes to join Muhammad’s forces in hopes of fun and profit.]”
There are also very disturbing videos at the site.
faustasblog.com/?p=8957
Anyone see Vladimir Illich Layton and his lovely wife there? That’s their crowd.
” Our judgment of ‘what is a good society’ must be one that shares and develops common values. And we must establish those common values – and stick to them. I don’t think that your solution is a good one because it rests on hatred.”
While I happen to agree with this,ET,what about the common values of those who follow the peadophile Momud? Are those actual “values” to a rational,thinking person? We here in North America have established our values,and stoning,clitoral circumsion,burkhas,”honour killings”,etc are not part of those values.
Spray them with bacon grease then napalm.
Im with Isreal.
Muslims who do speak up against the barbarism of the death cult of islam, have to fear for their lives, and that of their families.
islam is a horrid barbaric death cult. One that if you are born into there are very few avenues of escape.
There is no value in islam in a civilized world. The purpose of that sick twisted cult it to assimilate by force. If that doesn’t work, step two, is to the kill the unbelievers.
It got to go
ET…..still a wacky discredited Hagarist and closet disapprover of “ZIONISTS”?
We are supposed to envy Toronto it’s diversity aren’t we?
Nobody thinks this will go away on it’s own do you?
just thinkin – I’m not interested in the alleged source of Islam (Mohammed) since I don’t follow the ‘single cause’ theory. I think that Islam as an ideology arose for economic and political reasons in the 6th c.
It is primarily an economic and political mode of life, suited only to a nomadic pastoral economy, pre-industrial and totally unsuited to a modern industrial society. By defining itself as a religion it moves its axioms outside of debate and change. That’s an error. It has to change and modernize.
The Christian social and political ideology which developed in Europe from about the 4th century on, became rigid, outside of adaptation, suited only to a peasant agriculture. It had to change and enable the use of reason, individual free thought and so on. It went through a difficult 400 years to change that ideology – but it did.
Islam has to do the same. It has to modernize. There are quite a few Islamic scholars writing in academic and other journals about both the need and the right to ‘interpret’ rather than blindly follow the Islamic writings. So, either it changes or its people can’t function in the modern world.
After all, a population that rejects the use of reason, questions, dissent, can’t produce new technology or adapt to various environmental problems. So, it has to change. And since all ideologies stem from the mind of men, including the Islamic, that means that men can change that ideology.
But the West has to make it clear that the multicultural acceptance of a medieval life style isn’t acceptable. That’s why the Australian strategy is so important. They’ve made it clear – and Europe and Canada haven’t done so.
ET,
Nowhere in my post did I refer to “all Muslims as evil.” I have never done this. I would like to know why you constantly and libelously make these assertions? It is beyond insulting, it is an outright lie.
I have stated over and over again that I stand against the Islamic ideology; that it is foundationally violent. And I stand against those who promote the worst aspects of it.
I have also constantly said that Muslims are the first victims of this ideology.
I do say that Muslim immigration must be stopped. Whether the ‘vast majority’ are moderate or not, it is still a trojan horse for those who wage war against non-Muslims in dar al Harb.
Furthermore, once landed, Muslims tend to create their own enclaves, having and wanting nothing to do with integrating into the host culture. This becomes a prime incubator for extremism and future separation issues. As witnessed in ‘no go areas’ throughout Europe and more so in the Philippines and Thailand.
So, ET, I reject your unfounded and libelous assertions and am deeply offended by them.
However, your constant and irrational support of Islamic terrorism, writ large in violent Palestinian actions, and your baseless attacks and accusations, gives one pause to think about your character and motivation. As others have mentioned.
Kate, thanks for posting that for me. I was sick as a dog last night from frostbite and a cold I had picked up at the rally.
Here is a post with further pics.
RG
http://girlontheright.com/2009/01/04/target-rich-environment/
Outstanding photos (and dialogue) reflecting both sides of the
Israel vs Gaza conflict.
I’ve been to many of these Jew hating events in the past (see videos below), and agree with others who have said that yesterday’s rally was different. It really did feel like violence could erupt at any moment. The hatred was absolutely palpable. I don’t mind saying the shrieking, spitting, Nazi salutes to holocaust survivors, the faces fully concealed, etc left me shaken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcfPgKwveY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TckadG0lFmE
glasnost – awesome pics but certainly not for the faint-of-heart. War is a terrible but sometimes necessary extreme form of diplomacy.
Glasnost, excellent pictures. Though I admit I felt more sorrow over the Israeli Doberman than I did over the Palestinian child.
Macondo5, yes, I felt it too. There was a stench of violence in the air yesterday for sure. At any moment those animals could have overtaken the cops and come for us.
RG
Didn’t pic #11 look somewhat fake to anyone?
Except for the boot on one guy which appeared to be going in the wrong direction, the rest of them, unless they were deposited that way awaiting pickup, seemed like they were intact and posed.
Now I’ve never, thankfully, been in a war situation, but I’d think that there would be missing heads/limbs, etc, from bomb blasts.
As to the ubiquitous ‘wounded Palestinian children’, there’s ‘blood’ on their faces, but I never see gaping wounds, (or any wounds), from which the ‘blood’ is emanating.
Perhaps I’m just cynical.
So tell me,ET and no sarcasm intended,just how many of us must die while we wait for Islam to move 1300 years forward? Why should they have the right to kill us,while refusing to move ahead,and we not be allowed to retaliate?
And Right Girl….I just wish more people had the “gonads” you do to report AND attend this,this…well words fail me as to what to call it.
ET: **But a key problem is that when Hamas won the election, Israel closed the Gaza borders, effectively destroying its economic viability (Gaza must export or it has no income).**
ET, could you point me to your reference for that please?
I wonder how long it’s going to be before they decide we aren’t listening and set off a few suicide bombs in downtown Toronto to get our attention?
TJS – “how long will it be before they decide we aren’t listening and set off a few suicide bombs in downtown Toronto”
Hmmmmm…… a suicide bomb set off in the middle of a Hamas protest march….. Interesting idea…
These animals should be sprayed with bacon grease.
No, pig urine.
Thanks, Right Girl, and those others who were at the rally in Toronto yesterday. If I’d known about it — was it posted here at SDA? — I would have gone.
I want to make clear that I am totally in favour of authentic “multiculturalism.” I believe that different cultures and faiths, when working together towards common goals, is a very good thing — and that we can learn many things from others of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. I have lived in another country for a number of years, where I had to learn a new language and adapt to very different norms and values, and my family and I definitely benefited from this experience.
What we have in Canada, however, is not authentic multiculturalism. One can only authentically encounter “the other” when one is grounded in one’s own cultural/faith story. What we have in Canada is over 40 years of Anglo-Saxon Christians — in effect, three and four generations — being denied their rightful story. We’ve been told that we are “guilty” and that our story needs to be deep-sixed in order to make way for and give credence to others’ faith/cultural stories.
This is a totally false dichotomoy and, sadly, too many of us who have had our story usurped by the lib-left, multi-culti crowd (read the London School of Economics’ brainwashed Quebecois Librano$ of Trudeau & Company’s ilk) have sat by like mute idiots and said and done nothing except beat our breasts as we intone, “mea culpa!” “it’s all our fault!”
WHAT’S all our fault? It’s our fault that we opened our country to immigrants? Ironically, it’s OUR Judeo-Christian hospitality that has invited the multicultural mosaic of immigrants to our free and democratic country, while we, the host culture, have been flogged almost to death — self-flagellated would be more accurate. You’re right, lookout, the West is actually committing suicide.
These Hamas marches of masked individuals spewing hatred are not lawful. What were the police doing? Why weren’t they arresting some of the demonstrators? Where was the CHRC crowd while hatred towards Jews was being promoted?
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. If “mulitculturalism” means that certain ethnic/cultural/faith groups are allowed carte blanche to air their vile hatreds against groups they dislike, while the rest of us fouth-, fifth-, and sixth-generation Canadians stand by having been told to shut up, having been, effectively, disenfranchised IN OUR OWN COUNTRY WHOSE FREEDOMS WERE FOUGHT FOR AND HARD-WON BY OUR FATHERS AND GRANDFATHERS, something is terribly wrong. Terribly wrong.
I’m mad as Hell and I don’t want to take this C-R-A-P anymore. Olivia Chow is my useless MP. Who should I write?
BTW, ex-liberal, you’re so right about choosing which side you’re on or having your side chosen for you. Now is the time of decision. We no longer have the luxury of standing idly by while our democratic freedoms are being trampled and forcibly taken away from us right under our noses by new and militant immigrants to Canada. (Happy belated Chanukah!)
batb: **I want to make clear that I am totally in favour of authentic “multiculturalism.”**
batb, tell me what authentic multiculturalism is and I’ll probably be in favour of it too.
ET: “Yes, a major problem in Canada – and Europe – is the policy of multiculturalism, and it’s in our Charter as privilaged and indeed dominant. Effectively it sets up a situation where you can’t evaluate the behaviour and beliefs of an ideology.”
Well, actually, yes you can “evaluate the behaviour and beliefs of an ideology” under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms (sic) in Canada — if that “ideology” is Christian. “Official Canada” has been doing just that as Christians’ behaviour and beliefs have long been under the watchful eye of the public education system, journalists, law enforcement officers, the judiciary, and the CHRCs.
For years, Christians have been, in effect, gagged and arrested for peacefully demonstrating in front of abortion clinics and have been taken to CHRCs and punished for their views (the Rev. Boissoin, Scott Brockie, the BC Knights of Columbus, Catholic Insight, etc.). They’ve been told that there is no place for Christianity in the public education (sic) system, even though every public educational institution was begun and supported by groups of Christians for EVERYONE, not just those professing the Christian faith. (What other faith group has opened public institutions to which everyone, regardless of their faith affiliation, is invited to participate in?)
The Charter has seemed to guarantee that it’s pretty much a one-way street here in Canada: Either you’re a lib-left social engineer — and what you do and say then has official Charter sanction — or you’re a militant non-Christian, non-Anglo Saxon immigrant and you’re free to say and do pretty much what you want against any group you have grievances against — and you’re given carte blanche to do it. You’re untouchable.
This is what “multiculturalism” in Canada has come to mean. This is how it operates.
What’s just about this?
Be sure to watch Macondo’s video, posted above:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlcfPgKwveY
and then part 2.
Watch how they all know they’re lying, and how they resent being called on it. They can’t answer a single straightforward question. When confronted with reason, they practically roll their eyes as if rationality is further evidence of oppression by Jews.
Individually, they’re just dissembling idiot liars, who hide their blatant anti-Semitism behind some addled — and now finalized — progressive narrative.
Collectively, they’re ominous.
glasnost: “batb, tell me what authentic multiculturalism is and I’ll probably be in favour of it too.”
I thought I had!
I suggest that Canada was an authentically “multicultural” country before the Charter of Rights (sic) and Freedoms (sic) began abrogating certain groups’ rights (aka Christians and those of us of British heritage) while championing the rights and freedoms of “official Canada’s” chosen groups, aka lib-left special interest/victim groups.
Canada was authentically “multicultural” when immigrants were free to come to Canada — and they came in hordes — but made the decision to become Canadian — ‘none of this hyphenated Canadian business — and bring their children up as Canadians. If they wanted to keep the language of their forefathers and mothers, they taught their chilren in their homes or private schools, not in our publicly funded schools, as happens now under the auspices of “heritage languages,” and they were definitely discouraged from bringing and airing grievances from their homelands.
We used to have authentic multiculturalism in Canada (they still have it in the U.S.A., I think), but not anymore.
…and just for a little levity and entertainment, here’s a Palestinian kindergarten graduation ceremony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHdWgES-Uw&feature=PlayList&p=06C4B84D4344DF6F&playnext=1&index=25
Et…your comment at 1:01 PM explains exactley how “intellectuals” screw up the world.A 6th century culture and market???? Wake up!!! This is the 21st century.You make excuses for a culture that should have died 1500 years ago? Only a pile it heigher and deeper could do that. Must be nice to sit in your little home and not have to face the real world.Frankly,ET,you are a fake.
well, batb, I wouldn’t call what the HRCs do as ‘evaluation’. I call what they do as ‘prejudicial assertions’. There’s no reason, no logic, no facticity in their claims.
Your examples (Rev. Boissoin, etc) reveal this, and their most recent ‘judgment’ which saw nothing wrong in a fanatic Islamic tirade…all show that what they are not doing, is critical evaluation.
If we are in favour of freedom of speech, then I don’t think that we can insist that rallies, either pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel, can be stopped. The thing is, according to that insane HRC Section 13 act, such rallies ARE illegal, for they most certainly do promote ‘hatred or contempt’ towards another group. But, since most of us want this Section 13 removed, and our rights of freedom of expression supported, I don’t see how we can insist that the demonstrators be arrested.
blackbird – nope, I’m neither wacky nor a follower of Hagarism. I don’t believe in any messianic movement of any religion. I base my analyses on demographics and economic viability.
As for zionism, yes, I’m against it because I don’t believe that any people (defined as an ethnic group) have any inherent rights to any land base. Sovereignty over land is a political not cultural process. The Europeans could move from Europe to settle in other parts of the globe but their sovereignty over these lands was political and economic strength and not any ‘ethnic right’.
justthinkin – what do you think the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are about? They are attempts to enable those populations to develop democracy and a middle class; those two processes are the key to changing Islamic fascism and Islam to a modern version.
I don’t happen to think that the I-P fight over land and a Palestinian state is the same thing as the fight against Islamic fascism.
glasnost – the Hamas winning of the election resulted in Israel closing the border in 2007-8. You can find details of this in Wikipedia on Gaza Strip, also type in ‘closing of gaza borders’ and you’ll come up with quite a bit of data on this. Essentially, Israel (and Fatah) refused to recognize Hamas as the legitimate government, and closed the borders as Hamas/Fatah fought.
Since Gaza is a highly dependent ‘plot of land’ (and 30 km by 10 km can’t be called much more than that)..its economy ground to a halt. There are factories in Gaza that, for example, make the clothes, which are delivered to Israel companies. With the border closing, their factories closed. I hesitate to give actual links because I’m usually sent to join Forest Gump when I do so..but google in that phrase and you’ll find some data.
irwin daisy – well, you may be ‘deeply offended’ but my opinion of you remains the same. You view Muslims as all mindless puppet creatures of their texts; your view is that the texts are ‘fascist’ (your description); and therefore, the followers of this text are fascist. You reject any and all Muslim immigration which sets up a clear judgment that you view ALL Muslims as unfit to live within a democratic society.
Thanks Right Girl, you are brave.
Wish I’d heard about it, sorry I couldn’t attend.
Yonge Dundas square (location of Canada’s first swarming, and famous boxing day shooting) will be Canada’s killing area where these idiots will go to lower Canada into authentic middle eastern muslim culture.
Beware.
More pictures and stories about the Toronto terrorist rally at Jihad Watch.
I’ll be at the next one with my Sony HDD. And given how violent these fascist Muslims on our soil are becoming, and because I’d probably be arrested carrying a baseball bat, maybe I’ll bring along a couple of Serbian bouncer friends and a Sikh, or two, in full regalia.
As a police officer told one counter protester at University and Bloor, “You had better leave because we can’t guarantee your safety.”
What are we allowing our country to become? What use is the law unless it is upheld? Will the whole world become a stinking desert to appease the multiculturalists and the spread of Islamic hate?
“You reject any and all Muslim immigration which sets up a clear judgment that you view ALL Muslims as unfit to live within a democratic society”
No I don’t ET. By their own defintion of following the Quaran,they set themselves up as unfit to live in any civilized country.
ET: **But a key problem is that when Hamas won the election, Israel closed the Gaza borders, effectively destroying its economic viability (Gaza must export or it has no income).**
ET: **the Hamas winning of the election resulted in Israel closing the border in 2007-8. You can find details of this in Wikipedia on Gaza Strip, also type in ‘closing of gaza borders’ and you’ll come up with quite a bit of data on this. Essentially, Israel (and Fatah) refused to recognize Hamas as the legitimate government, and closed the borders as Hamas/Fatah fought.**
ET, Hamas won the election in January of 2006 you seem to be implying that Israel closed “Gaza’s borders” as a direct result of the election outcome.
My understanding is that Egypt closed “Egypt’s borders” in 2007, and Israel closed “Israel’s borders” in 2008, both as a result of Hamas/Fatah in-fighting in Gaza, as well as increased rocket attacks originating from locations in Gaza.
If a nation closes its border, it is somewhat specious to couch this in terms of closing the border of the contiguous nation.
Well, ET, I maintain that you are completely in the wrong. That you continue to fabricate and revise history. That you reject how Palestinians and Islamists define themselves in their own words. And more importantly, you reject the importance of the Quran, Hadith and Sira – the very foundation of the Islamic ideology – in the social context, judicial and political views of Muslims.
You reject history and common sense. And you are at odds with and reject the opinions of almost everybody on this board on this subject, going so far as to make libelous assertions and insults.
Furthermore, you have never provided any evidence to support your ahistorical points of view. For example, “Islam is the result of Christian incursions into Arabia”. Or that “fascist Islam only came into being in the 19th century.”
You constantly falsify what I’ve said, in fact constructing outright lies. For example:
“You reject any and all Muslim immigration which sets up a clear judgment that you view ALL Muslims as unfit to live within a democratic society.” ET
When what I actually said was:
“I do say that Muslim immigration must be stopped. Whether the ‘vast majority’ are moderate or not, it is still a trojan horse for those who wage war against non-Muslims in dar al Harb.”
and,
“Furthermore, once landed, Muslims tend to create their own enclaves, having and wanting nothing to do with integrating into the host culture. This becomes a prime incubator for extremism and future separation issues. As witnessed in ‘no go areas’ throughout Europe and more so in the Philippines and Thailand.”
So, in light of this, any reasonable person can safely assume that your irrational and baseless support for Palestine and your pet views on Islam are indeed ignorant, if not anti-Semitic.
And that, madam, is my opinion of you.
glasnost – I’m uncertain what you mean by ‘closing the border of the contiguous nation’.
The Hamas election victory in January 2006 led to a weak Hamas-Fatah coalition government, which rapidly fell apart with the two sections fighting each other; Fatah retreated in mid 2007 to the West Bank and Hamas declared itself in full control of Gaza. The Israeli govt closed the crossing points in 2006 during the fighting between Fatah-Hamas while those of Egypt remained open. Thousands of Palestinians – I’m not sure how many – but in the five figures, and these were the skilled people – left during this period 2006-07. Apparently, a fair number came to Canada.
My understanding is that in mid June 2007, when the Hamas declared itself in full control of Gaza, Israel then declared Gaza a ‘hostile entity’ and closed its border entrances. Same with Egypt.
Does anyone here think this would have exploded like this if the Jooo’s where not winning. The UN is going to call an emergency meeting. Funny thing they never do when Jews lose.
The MSM keeps on ticking away with the evil Israeli narrative, compared to the loving victims they portray the so called Palestinians as. Don’t these people put bombs on their own children & retards? By hook or crook, phony or real. The media will try to render the Israelis as the true barbarians, not the rocket launching maniacs. Who have sworn to kill every Jew they can find. Silence only about that from the MSM. Makes one ashamed to be Countrymen with such traitors. These folks are in love with death as much as the barbarians if not more. Haters of humanity the lot of them.
The left has no shame, the craven governments no honor left, but surrender to the savages demands.
As the Muslims become more extreme with each victory of law fare to terror, the more our lives shrink. In 20 years if this continues, Women will have lost all their rights. You will be property again. The Elite will bow to Islam without a whimper. I wish my rant was fairy dust, but even the dhimmi’s know the time is coming. You can feel the darkness becoming solid.
JMO
“You reject any and all Muslim immigration which sets up a clear judgment that you view ALL Muslims as unfit to live within a democratic society”
No I don’t ET. By their own defintion of following the Quaran,they set themselves up as unfit to live in any civilized country.
Isn’t one of the lefts reasons why we should abandon Afghanistan that they will always be uncivilized and we can’t change them? Isn’t it therefore logical that we shouldn’t let millions of them come and live here? Any leftists out there with a logical answer to this?
I bet I could find ET a leprechaun before he could find me a moderate Muslim that actually sticks to his religion and isn’t considered an apostate.
RG
well, irwin daisy, I’m afraid that I’m rather indifferent to your opinion of me.
Now, as to the emergence of Islamic fascism, I’ve urged you to read books on both the nature of fascism and the emergence of Al Qaeda, which is Islamic fascism. You have obviously not done so. I’ve provided some names and titles, including Lawrence Wright’s The Looming Tower, a history of al Qaeda, and various texts on fascism. Your choice has been to reject this information.
You have therefore made the, what I consider ignorant conclusion that Islam and fascism are identical. They are not.
As for the emergence of Islam in the 7th century, I totally reject ideological emergence on its own. Ideologies are always rooted in the deeper infrastructure of a population and this deeper infrastructure is the economy. The economy is based in the realities of the local environment. And the economy is bonded to the demographics, ie, how many people can that economy support.
This ecological perspective is a well-known foundation for studying societies. You don’t know anything about this perspective and have instead focused only on the text – which I consider a superificial and dangerous method. Your choice. I could give you the names of some texts on the role of the environment and economy in forming the cultural behaviour/beliefs of a population – such as Emilio Moran, and Jared Diamond, and Bernard Cooper…but I doubt if you would read them.
So, enjoy your opinions.
ET: What about the rockets? What about the rockets, don’t the rockets mean anything?
Perhaps you should use your esoteric vocab to help us to describe the parties in this historic event.
Israel: agressors, defenders …
Hamas: freedom fighters, instigators, zealots …
Palestinians: helpless pawns, freedom fighters …
Regarding ‘closing the border of a contiguous nation’: If Canada decided to close its border, would you report that as “Canada closes the US Border”?
ET@11:01 AM
There is not now, nor has there ever been, a country called Palestine.
“well, irwin daisy, I’m afraid that I’m rather indifferent to your opinion of me.
Posted by: ET at January 4, 2009 5:36 PM ”
What more can you say.Disagree with the great ET,and get a snide,snobby,PHD response.Also notice she never does answer questions given to her? Iggy would be proud.
ET,
Your pompous lecturing falls on deaf ears. You are asking me to read a book that concurs with your narrow opinion, which I reject.
I have read Jared Diamond and reject much of what he says in terms of the development of Islam, for it’s too narrow minded, simply based on mechanics alone.
I prefer to rely on historical accounts from the time, including Islams own texts, the Hadiths and Sira. As well as the various Islamic commentators. All of which disagree with your POV.
I’ve also suggested certain books that you have obviously not read, such as anything from Dr. Andrew Bostom, Jamie Glazov, Joseph Schacht, David Margoliouth, Snouck Hurgronje, Charles-Emmanuel Dufourcq, Jeffery, Lammens.
I’ve proven through history many, many times before that Islam can easily be defined as fascist and totalitarian from the outset. It did not suddenly become so in the 19th century.
Jonah Goldberg’s book, ‘Fascism for Proles,’ outlines fascism as thus:
The notion that communism and Nazism are polar opposites stems from the deeper truth that they are in fact kindred spirits. Or, as Richard Pipes has written, “Bolshevism and Fascism were heresies of socialism.” Both ideologies are reactionary in the sense that they try to re-create tribal impulses. Communists champion class, Nazis race, fascists the nation. All such ideologies — we can call them totalitarian for now — attract the same types of people.
Islam, in fact, champions all three. That Muslims are the best of people and above dhimmis. That Jews and Christians are apes and pigs. And that the Muslim nation – the Ummah – has an Allah given mandate to rule the world, supreme.
Fascist Islam comes replete with it’s various genocides, ethnic cleansing, pogroms, destruction of and theft from other cultures – more so than any other political ideology that has ever existed on earth.
They taught Hitler.
And you to yours.