Six senate seats for the separatist BQ?
Premier Wall, you need to be calling an emergency meeting of your cabinet to draft whatever legislation it takes to protect our resource industry from these crackpots – now.
Contact your Sask Party MLA here.
Update via Bourque “BREAKING: BC Premier Gordon Campbell denounces Coalition putsch: “Stand back, think of Canada !” …”
christoph – note also how the signed deal, a deal signed by Layton, Dion and Duceppe, says that the Bloc will not support a non-confidence motion at any time in the agreement.
This means that this corrupt coalition, if put in place, cannot fall. It can announce the most terrible budget, filled with patronage deals and kickbacks – just as they are now doing with offering Senate seats to the Bloc and May – and nothing can be done about it. Nothing. Nothing.
Because the Bloc has moved out of being operative in a parliament, where its vote must be based on the validity of a Motion, and into a Cabal, which operates to maintain the Cabal – and to hell with the nature of the Motions proposed.
The Bloc has been, so far, bought with one billion of our taxpayer money. One billion goes to Quebec for its part in destroying democracy in Canada.
Are they insane?
The improved link to the Coalition Terms, which seem to include the return of the issue of national daycare:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/pdf/081201_Policy%20Frame_en.pdf
“Families: As finances permit, we are committed to moving ahead with improved child benefits and an early learning and childcare program in partnership with each province, and respectful of their role and jurisdiction, including the possibility to opt out with full compensation.”
Bob screwed it up in Ont. I don’t think he is there for the repeat. Iggy called the coalition a poison chalice so he has misgivings too. Iggy has about 70% support. The problem for him is they will leave the non-leader in as PM to take the heat. But people know it is Iggy with the support so if he wanted to stop it he could have and did not. Iggy is going to wear it and he is the one with the least to gain.
BREAKING on Duffy…
Jean Lapierre says that Jacques Parizeau is to come out and endorse the colaition.
ET, individual MPs of whatever party could, in theory, vote to bring down the government. However, lots of people think it will immediately implode.
It might, but I wouldn’t bet on it either.
Off topic, but this is terrible.
Remember how big online video was in the recent American election?
That is the Conservative Party of Canada YouTube channel. Last sign in — 2 days ago.
Logo, design, etc? Nonexistent. Relevant video message (audio if need be for now) on this issue? Zero.
We always did suck on the web front.
My God! Look at Stephen Taylor’s website. I throw up whenever I see it.
Logic isn’t your forte. A does not imply B.
“unprecedented” is the definition of a coup?
You’re either a nut — which is my first guess — or you’re a Moby (a leftist pretending to be a conservative to discredit them, named after Moby the jackass, but very talented artist).
Either way, you’re an idiot.
ET:
You didn’t think that the cabalition really cares a tinker’s damn whether we live or die, as long as they have power and most importantly; the money.
We are after all, only mere peons who are a democratic inconvenience to their longer term designs.
What we are quickly finding out is, that the cabalition will not be separated from its ‘lolly’ come “Hell or Highwater”, I believe was Paul Martin’s phrase.
In short, they will tell you what to believe, like they have planned all along.
Real democratic freedom is a dangerous concept to them.
If Dion has real guts, let us see him take the coalition proposal to the people, with or without the backroom machinations.
Cheers
Hans-Christian Georg Rupprecht, Commander in Chief
Frankenstein Battalion
2nd Squadron: Ulanen-(Lancers) Regiment Großherzog Friedrich von Baden(Rheinisches) Nr.7(Saarbrucken)
Knecht Rupprecht Division
Hans Corps
1st Saint Nicolaas Army
Army Group “True North
ET, individual MPs of whatever party could, in theory, vote to bring down the government. However, lots of people think it will immediately implode.
It might, but I wouldn’t bet on it either.
Off topic, but this is terrible.
Remember how big online video was in the recent American election?
That is the Conservative Party of Canada YouTube channel. Last sign in — 2 days ago: You Tube “forward slash” cpccpp
Logo, design, etc? Nonexistent. Relevant video message (audio if need be for now) on this issue? Zero.
We always did suck on the web front.
My God! Look at Stephen Taylor’s website. I throw up whenever I see it.
Logic isn’t your forte. A does not imply B.
“unprecedented” is the definition of a coup?
You’re either a nut — which is my first guess — or you’re a Moby (a leftist pretending to be a conservative to discredit them, named after Moby the jackass, but very talented artist).
Either way, you’re an idiot.
Maybe the present government should declare Quebec an independent country and ban their MPs from attending the House of Commons. Then they would have a majority, and Duceppe could hardly complain about it.
Taking into account that the CPC built up a huge war chest and Jason Kenney spent a lot of time peeling away immigrant votes from the Liberals, perhaps when he comments publicly, Parizeau will say that the only reason Harper won more seats is because of “money and the ethnic vote”.
A “former” Commie (Duceptte)…A Seperatist (Duceptte)…A French Citizen (Dion)…A Socialist (Layton) want to make plans to wrestle control with a former French Citizen and Separatist mascarading as the Head of State (Jean)
In any other contry this would be called treason or sedition. Any gov’t that these evil people form would be false and lack true authority to lead. The west should declare independence immediatly. Rebellion is warented when gov’t has lost the support of the people and the intermediate governing bodies.
But how could you convince Canada’s loyal Governor-General to sign onto that?
/sarc
Christoph: You linked to a two year old article about events 14 years earlier. Jean may, or may not, have changed her views since then and she was/is not responsible for her husband’s views.
The fact remains that she will have two choices – dissolve parliament or accept the coalition. Those of us who want her to choose the first should make our views known to her. As I said, it may not make any difference but it certainly can’t hurt. And the five minutes it will take to make that view known is time well-spent.
If you were “merely” advocating rebellion, yes, that’s a crime and all, but I could understand it as misguided patriotism.
Instead, you criticize separatism and advocate separatism. Leading me to believe — sincerely — you are an idiot.
Same with your separatism call. Where is this majority of people who would do this? Don’t even worry about answering. You’re stupid.
And don’t bother attacking me in return either. You just advocated both rebellion against Canada and secession, the vary things we are fighting against. You advocate Treason. But also criticize it.
You’re a mess.
for those of you inclined to speak out to (ex) Citoyen Jean, the attached link seems to be gaining momentum…
http://www.canadians4democracy.ca/
So much may ride on a Governor General who had a dual citizenship, who was appointed by the Liberals and who has a husband with separatist leanings.
Greg Weston of the Ottawa Sun makes a valid case that a new coalition government could not possibly deliver a new budget before March:
http://www.ottawasun.com/News/Columnists/Weston_Greg/2008/12/01/7601731-sun.html
Posted by: Christoph at December 2, 2008 5:29 PM
Due to recent events, maybe you’ve had some over-stimulation on the partisan front, or maybe just frustrated. Either or, it looks like you’ve been posting too long today bub.
“I don’t know if it will make any difference, but it looks like she’s our last best hope.”
How I remember arguing with the mush-heads three-plus years ago about the utter unsuitability of this woman to be GG. They liked her smile. I pointed out that she had no experience for the job, was appointed for politically-correct reasons, and had had, at the very least, separatist sympathies. And her husband was a separatist supporter. No matter.
I’m afraid that Lucien Bouchard may have been right.
GG is not obligated to give into coupalition, even if she refuses PM request for dissolution. Why, because she must be sure coupalition does indeed have support of parliament. And, though above politics, she cannot make this decision in a vacuum, and must consider those ramifications, because they indeed have effect on parliamentary stability.
She also has piles of precedence backing dissolution and zero that apply to coalition without majority, where government, by far, won the most seats. This kind of decision risks invalidating any future minority government, of any stripe, which, given we have a four, and possibly five, party system, majorities are becoming increasingly difficult.
BTW, Lester Pearson tried something similar in 1958, was rebuffed, and then creamed in next general election by Diefenbaker.
History shows coalition and minorites are extremely unstable, with promises not kept. Dion, Layton and Duceppe lied to the electorate about not entering coalition, so why are there statements and agreements now to be believed.
On balance, GG has no choice but to grant dissolution request. Unless and until Bloc are formal members of coalition with cabinet seats, thus with real stake in keeping parliament stable, she must refuse coupalition request.
No matter what happens, the Liberals and NDP, and possibly the Bloc (though their leader has been quite cunning) are finished as viable political parties in their own right. Nobody will believe them, and the thousands (IMO) of Canadians who voted for Liberals on basis they WOULD NOT ENTER INTO COALITION WITH NDP, will change their vote, whenever they get their chance.
Our constitution sets out condition of peace, order and good government. How can the coupalition possibly deliver this, and how can GG believe they will, given their duplicity and dishonesty with electorate?
BTW, the argument that Canadians will forgive the Liberals when they deliver good government sounds a lot like Chretien saying it was OK to steal money from the taxpayers because the were trying to “save the country.”
For Liberals, that is. If this $1.98 coup succeeds, the West will howl, and all their disparate separation movements will quickly gain legitimacy and momentum. And I will be there, with these suggested conditions to forestall separation, dutifully and carefully carried out in conformance with the Clarity Act:
– we collect all our own taxes
– we administer each and every provincial responsible program (health, education, etc), retaining all revenues.
– ALL transfer payments are to cease immediately
– proper rep by pop, or proportional rep if necessary if to be IMMEDIATELY implemented
Do what is necessary, change the consitution, whatever, or we will go.
Separation if necessary, though not necessarily, provided our minimum requirements are met. Otherwise, bye bye.
Christoph, I think the paradigm of a dysfunctional marriage is most applicable: PQ has merely threatened to leave the marriage, and used that threat to leverage a good deal for itself.
To suggest separation as a the solution is more a case of fatigue with the constant threats and leverage, and seeks a haven of peace and stability by finally calling the bluff and walking out the door.
I have no desire to keep PQ in federation, and wish the threatening spouse would finally pack their bags and leave. However, life is better for that spouse staying on the inside and whining.
If the spouse won’t leave, then the other alternative is leaving the spouse.
The constant threat of separation has fatigued the ROC. This grab for power is likely the last straw for the west, and I cannot blame them. Enough.
If we want this nonsense to stop once and for all, we have to find our teeth, and sink them deeply (figuratively) into the calves of these scumbags in Ottawa.
I believe our response should be to find every legal way we can to be ungovernable, to refuse to be governed in “business as usual” manner, while every region of the country weighs its options.
christoph – it’s naive of you to think that in this coalition, with the Bloc committed to all its members refusing to agree with a non-confidence vote, that any or enough of the other MPs of this coup in the NDP-Liberal party would vote in favour of a non-confidence vote.
And actually, Taylor has a point about precedence informing constitutionality. I suggest you tone down your rather smug assertion of superiority. My point is that I cannot find, anywhere in the constitution, any comments about coalitions. I’ve asked several times on this blog, for people who claim that it is or is not ‘constitutional’ to please provide the article. No reply.
This leaves us with the conventionality rule of law, ie, where convention, which is not signed law, but it acts as a law of precedence, ie. a form of common law. And there is no precedence for this attempted coup, which does make it, in common parlance, illegal or non-acceptable as a procedure. No need to throw up, christoph; just consider it.
Also, ‘lots of people’ (? argumentum ad populam?) think it will implode. How? Why should it? These MPs have everything, they think, to gain, raiding the taxpayer, bleeding the taxpayer, and using the money to pay of special interest groups in return for their presumed..next election..votes.
But ahh – what next election? What if they vote to extend their Rule? Now,that might be unconstitutional, but I’d bet they’d get around that as well.
They are already setting themselves up such that they do not face an election.
And I suspect they are terrified of an election. Think about it.
Would they campaign as separate parties? Liberal candidate vs NDP candidate? Hmm? Or would they agree not to have opposite candidates? No Green candidates? The end of the Green party? What about the Bloc? No Liberal-NDP-Green candidates in Bloc ridings? Or would they campaign as a coaltion? Or???
I think they are totally insane.
We need an election. Now. They have no right to take over our country and our money and our House and Senate.
Kathryn: “Christoph: You linked to a two year old article about events 14 years earlier. Jean may, or may not, have changed her views since then and she was/is not responsible for her husband’s views.”
And the separatists had a referendum 13 years ago. But that was so 1990s — surely we can’t draw any conclusions from that. The Bloc can’t possibly still want sovereignty. It was so long ago. Duceppe is such a great guy. In fact I’d vote for him if I could.
“You realize Joanne, there’s not a insignificant chance a boy from Ontario would kill your boy from Alberta if a separatist movement gained hold and your son joined or was pressed into service.”
Christoph – Dec 02 4.10
And if you said that in front of me Christoph, there is a 100% chance of me ripping your nuts off and ramming them down your effing throat.
Threatening people over their political beliefs, how bloody bizarre can you wackos get?
Sounds like you are an expert on the Charter of Rights in this country, eh?
MJ, I’m not drawing conclusions from anything. Her past/current sympathies may come into play in her decision and there’s not much we can do about that. All I’m saying is that we should do what we can to help her make the right decision. We may not have much of a voice in this but it’s still a voice. Use it.
It’s not naive of me, I have the opposite opinion for God’s sakes.
In other words, I believe it may prove stable. And that’s what I said. Further I think this is a longstanding leftist plot between communist in all but name, Layton, and “former” communist Duceppe. Whether leftist within the liberal party, Dion, was aware of it or not is an open question. He says he wasn’t.
Professor clueless or professor liar and plotter, have your pick.
No one threatened her son, but her own actions in calling for separation.
Wars start that way. People are killed in wars.
If her desire was carried through to fruition, it would have a reasonable chance of killing her son.
Separation is not the path of peace. If you’re too stupid to understand that, rockyt, so be it. If Joanne is, so be it. But her son shouldn’t have to pay the penalty for such shortsidedness.
If separation is worth the price, fine, but I say it isn’t. Not yet. Hopefully not ever.
And if it hurt her feelings? Good. She needs to grow up. So do all of you calling for Treason and separation. These things have consequences.
*shortsightedness
Get a grip Christoph. How many Qubecers have been killed over threatening to secede over the years?
PS, why don’t you create your own blog as well, this isn’t your personal site to yak on and on.
I am thoroughly disgusted with the Liberal Party right now.
What they can’t get in an election they try and take by theft.
It’s like they believe they have some god given right to govern Canada, regardless of their actions and whether the majority of voters want them or not.
Disgusting!
“Treason and separation”
Chris you sometimes make sense but this statement is false. Alberta entered into Confederation willingly, and will exit in the same matter. Your brand of Federalism is nothing more than fascism.
A few.
And it’s not the threat, it’s the actuality. IF secession reached critical mass, particularly in a low population province where the central government could realistically prevail in shutting it down, then the odds of conflict are high.
Plus it would leave provinces and territories ripe for our neighbour who has a history of expansion even this century.
But you know what? She’s a traitor. She calls for the dissolution of Canada. F— her.
But not her son. I don’t know anything about her son. For all I know he is a fine decent man.
Well then, I guess we should all respect the Bloc Quebecois.
“MJ, I’m not drawing conclusions from anything. Her past/current sympathies may come into play in her decision and there’s not much we can do about that. All I’m saying is that we should do what we can to help her make the right decision. We may not have much of a voice in this but it’s still a voice. Use it.”
My point is that an event 14 years ago is highly relevant to the situation.
Today in the H of C Stephen Harper was as energized as I’ve seen him for a long time. His theme was that the “coalition” is gambling with the unity and future of the country simply for the sake of power. I suspect that Harper isn’t confident that the GG will view the threat posed by collaboration with the separatists as a serious one; that HER normal isn’t the same as his or that of most Canadians. I think that his repeated beating on this theme is an attempt to frame the issue for the GG specifically, so that she HAS to take it into account.
Just heard that Jacques Parizeau will have a letter published tomorrow which throws his support behind Dion and Duceppe. That should help Dion a ton.
shaken: “I suggest we try to find a dozen or so Liberal MPs who would like to continue their political careers and work on persuading them to cross the floor, for the sake of the country.
“This is not business as usual.”
That’s for sure. I suggested the floor crossing four days ago. ‘Came to me in the middle of the night! There have GOT to be some sane Liberals (and maybe a few NDPs) who will band together with the CPC to see that Canadian democracy is preserved.
This palace coup cannot stand.
You know what? I’m done.
Most of the people here vote the same way I do — and I’m pretty f’n far right — but you guys are mostly nuts to the point of being dumb.
NDP MPs are going to throw away their chance of a coalition government and real power to move the country left? And to discredit the Liberals at the same time? Why? I don’t care what reason you think they should have. They don’t care enough.
They’re redistributionists. Marxists, communists, socialists, call them what you will.
It’s not even an option and shows the utter fantastical thinking going on between your 2 ears that you think it’s possible.
Liberal MPs? Maybe. But probably not. And not many if there are.
I suggest you tone down your rather smug assertion of superiority.
Christoph has been banned from alot of blogs for his superiority complex that often shows itself through bitter personal attacks about his superior intellectual and moral analysis. This ranges from cerebral sites, like Patterico’s Pontifications, to (just recently) the more open (he typed euphamistically) Ace of Spades HQ’s site. And no, I don’t know why he just doesn’t get his own blog.
Do you think that Dion and Layton truly in their heart of marxist hearts believe that we the stupid people got in wrong in voting for Stephen Harper as our Prime Minister.
Marxist/socialists always believe that the ruling elite are the only ones who know what’s best for the peon masses.
Maybe they think they are just righting our own big stupid uneducated mistake and we should be so happy that they found a way to save us from ourselves.
Christoph, lets be clear.
You did threaten her, weasel.
You told her to think carefully after telling her her son could be killed.
And I don’t like that.
And now Christoph, are you really that stupid about separatism?
When the UN (United Nations, I writing this really slow so you can keep up) was formed in the late 1940s, there were only about 50 countries in it.
And now in the year 2008, there are about 200 nations in it.
So, where did they all come from, big boy?
Did the stork bring them?
Did they all raise their hand and ask politely if they could leave the country?
Today it is a commonly accepted belief that any group of people who think that they have legitimate reason to become an independent country has the right to do it.
Including Quebec. And I would wish them well.
That is the signature of civilization in the last 100 years of world history.
New nations are being created all the time because of ignorant selfish little (coalition) jerks who want to plunder and destroy the democratic system.
Try to keep up, eh?
Ken B: “I am from Ontario — for more generations than there has been a Canada. And I must tell you westerners — Albertans especially — something. We despise you.”
Kevin B: I, also, am from Ontario and my family has lived here since 1799. I DON’T despise Alberta. I really like their rugged individualism and the fact that their reform movement against the entrenched, entitled “powers that be” has challenged and changed for the best Canada’s democracy.
Thank you, Alberta. My Canada includes Alberta.
Whoops: I was addressing my comments to Ken B.
The time for the Rally for Canada has been posted; it’s from noon to 2:00 pm across Canada.
Also, there’s an online petition asking the GG to, on dissolution, call for an election.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/nocoalition
Meanwhile, write, write, write – to all MPs, the GG at info@gg.ca, newspapers, etc against this putsch.
One thing that’s for sure, this coalition does not want an election. Absolutely not. Notice how they’ve set up their ‘govt’ such that it can’t be dissolved for at least two years; the Bloc, which is the King and Emperor of this govt, has guaranteed that it will not permit a no-confidence vote to pass. How’s that for democracy? Could Putin do any better?
But this coalition does not want an election. After all, if one were held now, would they go to the polls as separate competitive parties? Or as a coalition? Of how many parties? We now have the NDP-Liberals-Bloc on paper. Then, there’s the Greens who’ve publicly locked in to get at the goodies and plum senate seats and pensions. So, how would they go to the polls.
The first, last and most important thing this coaltion does NOT want is an election. They don’t want the people to have any power. They are the Power.
Rudy: “What are they [Bobo Rae and the Iggster] up to?
No good, and that’s a given.
Now that the sh** is hitting the fan (just watched MDL–and is HE on a roll!) we’re not going to see these guys. They’re holed up somewhere trying to distance themselves from Little Dion and his Twisted Troika of Twits.
Good luck, guys. Your names are forever connected with the Libarno$ and are seared into the collective Canadian brain and psyche.
Note that the Rally for Canada will be held from noon to 2:00 pm across Canada. Type in the name and you’ll find out where in various cities. I can’t provide the link as the spam filter catches it.
Also, there’s an online petition to the GG asking her that if dissolution occurs, to ask for an election. Again, I can’t provide the link. Try ‘no coalition government for canada’. It’s on triple w dot ipetitions dot com slash petition slash nocoalition.
Hope that works.
Why do people even respond to “Christoph”? Pay attention to our gracious and magnanimous hostess:
DON’T F****** FEED THE TROLLS. WHAT DON’T POSTERS HERE UNDERSTAND ABOUT THIS?
May and her tanks is just as stupid as Hedy Fry and her “burning crosses, as we speak”.
ET wrote; And why? Just over a fiscal update that asked for financial restraints within the govt, the civil service, and the political parties who refuse to raise their own funds and prefer to feed off the taxpayer? But this was planned long before any mention of these restrains, long before. The tactic was to be used on ANY financial Motion put to the House – it had nothing to do with the Motion, but with the Agenda of using a financial Motion as a means to take Power……………….. Exactly,and for further proof ,there is time between when a motion or bill is introduced in the HofC and when it is voted upon.During this time there is debate,amendments,and compromise.The coalition did not attempt any of this,they sprung their scheme immediately,without amy debate. It really didn’t matter what was in the bill,the timing is what is important. The closer to the previous election,the better chance that the GG will accept their offer of a coalition and not call another election. These people are evil.
And i always figured dionkey and flaketon were merely ignorant, worthless, stupid morons.
I really have to learn how to set up my comments better. I was quoting ET only up until the………….The rest is my thoughts.
WallyJ, you wrote: “It really didn’t matter what was in the bill, the timing is what is important. The closer to the previous election,the better chance that the GG will accept their offer of a coalition and not call another election. These people are evil.”
They are scheming traitors.
Just heard that Roy Romanow was a part of this plan to overturn a duly elected gov’t.
SHAME on Romanow and SHAME on Broadbent.
“Mike Duffy has just reported that Elizabeth May has said:
Please Mr Harper Don’t Put Tanks On The Hill to Prevent Coalition MP’s.
God Help Us”
Elizabeth May and Dion have flipped their lids.
What rubbish they spew.