“I am a Canadian,
a free Canadian,
free to speak without fear,
free to worship God in my own way,
free to stand for what I think right,
free to oppose what I believe wrong,
free to choose those who shall govern my country.
This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold
for myself and for all mankind.”
Flea – “He never added the caveat, ‘so long as nobody might be offended'”.
Join the election day blogburst!
MAJORITY MINORITY
Majority minority
It’s time to stand
See yourself & where you are
There is comfort in your numbers
But still your path lies far
It’s up to you to take it
Be the first, lead the way
Self-doubt lies deep within you
Ingrained from another day
Obedience & reliance
Traits that you have come to know
Only you can change this
If you ever want to grow
Be proud, you have a history
Men with vision
& those who dared
To ask for more than what was given
To the passive and the scared
Take a step for what you need & believe in
Don’t just watch as time goes by
Or the sacrifices of those before you
In vein will surely die
Your children right now need you
Those you know and not yet born
Fail today, there’s no tomorrow
Past & future forever torn
Know not yourself & nothing matters
Happiness, self worth you’ll never know
With a lack of substance
Your’ majority becomes irrelevant
Your’ minority just for show
…… alex reymundo ©2003
So get your ass out there and vote…If you already did…Call someone to do so…And so on…And so on…
“…the Prime Minister who comes to power democratically in a roundabout way.”
Oh, as well as being elected in his riding I might add.
Further, not every position of power in government is democratic in the U.S. either. Which of the current cabinet secretaries, including the horrible panicky socialist Democrat and former Goldman Sachs CEO Hank Paulson is democratically elected?
They’re appointed by your President and confirmed by your Senate. Much as our Prime Minister is the leader of his or her party, which is in government because they were elected.
Canada,
Head of State – Queen of Canada – Unelected Foreigner
Head of Government – Gov Gen – Unelected Foreigner
Chief Executive – Prime Minister – Unelected – Appointed by the Queen
Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces – Queen of Canada – Unelected Foreigner
Federal Senate – Senator – Unelected – Appointed by the Queen
House – MP – Directly and democratically elected
Head of State Provincial – Lieutenant Governor – Appointed by the Queen
Chief Executive Provincial – Premier – Appointed by the Queen
Provincial Senate – Senator – Appointed by the Queen
Provincial House – MPP – Directly and democratically elected
Inalienable Rights of Citizenry – Non-existent – Only the Queen fully and Titled nobles enjoy most of these rights.
Private Property (Real Property) – Only Titled nobles may actually hold land titles.
Power Flow God – Queen (Sovereign) – Government – People
USA
Head of State – President – Elected
Head of Government – President – Elected
Chief Executive – President – Elected
Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces – President – Elected
Federal Senate – Senator – Elected
House – Congressman –Elected
Head of State ( State) – Governor – Elected
Chief Executive (State) – Governor – Elected
State Senate – Senator – Elected
State House – Elected
Inalienable Rights of Citizenry – Yes – Codified in the Constitution
Private Property (Real Property) – Yes –US citizens are sovereign and indeed enjoy inalienable rights to own title to land.
Power Flow God – Citizen (Sovereign) – Town – County – State – Federal Government
Ahh, so that is your definition of democracy. It requires an:
“actual ballot that has a Prime minister, Head of State, Commander in Chief, Premier or any other executive position on it.”
But that’s only your definition of democracy. Your definition requires that the Head of State is directly elected (we’ll leave out the Electoral College at the moment, shall we?). I disagree with such a narrow definition of democracy. I suggest that you explore the term and its many variations.
My definition is within the history of the development of democracy as a process, a process that fulfills the etymology of the term: ‘rule by the people’. So, the focus is on RULE. This is different from your focus which is on the leader. I focus on the power to make the RULES.
The RULE can be understood as the laws, which are legislated and set up as authoritative. The question then is: who makes these Rules? The answer is: the Legislature. Not the Leader or Head of State or King or Queen or…
The Legislature makes the Rules. In a constitutional democracy, these Rules must be accountable to the Constitution. That’s the role of the Supreme Court – to verify that the proposed Rules are constitutional.
We, the people, have in Canada, almost universal suffrage (except for the anamoly of Quebec residency as a criterion) and we elect the Legislature.
The leader of the party which is ‘first past the post’ is elected. Not by the general electorate, but by the party. This has similarities in its indirect nature to the Electoral College.
The political party which wins the most seats, forms the government. Simple as that. This is called a democracy. [For the record, I’m against proportional representation because it removes this direct accountability of the elected MP to his constituents who elected him].
Now, this Wesminster Parliamentary system also appoints a great number of officers: the Senate, the judiciary, Deputy Ministers. I happen to think that most of these ought to be elected – as Australia has done. But, this practice of the government appointing many officers of govt doesn’t mean that the nation is not a democracy. Remember, the legislature is elected. The RULES are made by an elected body.
So, your narrow definition of democracy, which assigns the term only to those countries whose population directly elects its leader..remains your version. There are other ways of ensuring ‘power to the people’.
“I am a Canadian, of hyphenated descent
a free Canadian, unless my point of view isn’t liberal enough
free to speak without fear, unless I offend you
free to worship God in my own way, so long as I don’t follow Christianity
free to stand for what I think right, unless it interferes with liberal entitlements
free to oppose what I believe wrong, so long as the CHRC approves
free to choose those who shall govern my country so long as it is liberal and progressive.
This heritage of freedom I pledge to uphold
for myself and for all mankind so long as I allow oppression by peoples of other beliefs in the name of tolerance.
In short I am Canadian and I have no right to think or speak for myself.
Yea so where’s that ballot? Cue the chirping crickets…
Yanks don’t choose Presidents either! The Founding Fathers couldn’t bring themselves to allow a mere common man the right to choose a President so they insulated the office from the indignity of being sullied by the hands of the “lower orders” by creating the College of Electors.
Also who chooses the respective parties’ candidates? Insiders and party hacks, that’s who!
Sure anyone can run as an independent, good luck ever getting elected though.
Your “democracy” is just as much of a sham as ours is.
But that’s OK because I don’t really like democracy anyway. Why should I suffer having a bunch of effing IDIOTS determining how my affairs are carried out?
“Posted by: ET at October 14, 2008 3:10 PM”
I agree with every word of your post and I would add though that I think the American system is a somewhat superior system in most respects.
There’s a clear elected VP and succession order (also elected) in case of emergency, the Senate is elected, the number of Senators per state is equal and gives smaller states more of a say in the Union while still ensuring much closer to representation by population than Canada has (compare any of the ridings on PEI to Surrey, BC, to see what I’m talking about: It’s a farce!).
I believe Canada is a Democracy mostly by tradition and culture than by our system. Our system is one of the lamest electoral system in the free world. Thank God we’re still part of that free world.
I think having a sparse population in a huge ungovernably large country (by dictatorial means considering our small population and tiny armed forces and above all our culture of democracy) and a border with the largest democracy on Earth…
… goes a long way to explaining how Canada remains a functioning free country.
Don’t get me wrong. I love Canada enormously. But a lot of the problem with our system of government that KPD mentions are valid, especially the non-elected Senate which s/he mentioned, and the lack of representation by population which s/he didn’t.
“I voted this morning, noticed a steady stream of people at the polling station, mostly seniors.”
Early risers!”
And most on a mission, no doubt, to attempt to deny PMSH his majority. The socialists are notorious for hammering at seniors about the dangers of a right-of-centre government. You know … increased health care costs, decreased CPP benefits. Sadly, this type of “mediscare” garbage actually frightens many seniors and is a very successful weapon in the arsenal of the NDP especially. In reality, what should really frighten people are the ramifications of most of Jack Layton’s ideas.
Of course, every party courts the senior vote because they actually vote. However, the CPC gets more than its share of seniors: That’s one of our largest voting blocks!
KPD – you are the one who is defining ‘democracy’ within a narrow and unique mode: that the head of the govt has to be voted in by the people.
I remind you, by the way, of the electoral college. This body’s vote and the popular vote are not always similar. You choose to ignore this.
However, your narrow definition of democracy ignores that democracy, as a system, has a number of styles. The parliamentary system of, for example, Canada, has an elected head of government and a figurehead head of state (the monarch).
This figurehead, as I’m sure you know, has no legislative or indeed any authoritative powers; you must know this but choose to ignore it…because you are trying to privilege your own narrow definition of democracy. Sorry – privileging one definition doesn’t make that definition valid.
The leader of the Canadian or parliamentary political party, that wins the election, becomes the head of government. Again, as you know, this leader is elected. Twice. Both within his party as leader, and by the people as MP.
This separation of powers, between the head of state and the head of government, is one style of democracy. The US merges them, and separates its powers in a different manner. For example, in the US, the Senate and House can be dominated by Republicans, while the President can be Democrat, and the two ideologies can result in a statemate.
The US President nominates his executive officers, who are not, personally elected by the electorate. In Canada, the foreign minister, finance minister etc must all be first elected by the public. The PM then gives them specific executive duties.
In the US, the Sec of State, of Treasury, etc, are not elected by the people but nominated by the President, and put to Senate for confirmation/rejection. This is not a direct ballot! And remember, the VP is not directly elected by the people but nominated by the Presidential candidate. The other key officers in the presidential line (in case each taken ill or whatever)..the Speaker, the Sec of state – are not elected by the people. No ballot.
So, your cherry picking isn’t very constructive. There are benefits and problems in both forms of democracy. And remember, these are both democracies. The devil is in the details.
Personally, I think that more of our positions ought to be elected (senate, judiciary etc)..But I think that your narrow definition of ‘democracy’ is both historically invalid and operationally..silly. Enjoy it, however.
Hence the electoral college system, that forces federal candidates to get a mandate from smaller, less populous states and ameliorates the populous effect from large urban centers.
The United States of America is not a nation of 250+million citizens, but a union of 50 sovereign States.
Yes, but culturally Canada is often more sensible than the states (not always).
For example, the Americans have higher teenage pregnancies, more STDs, lower first age of intercourse, etc.
Canada with less emphasis on “abstinence” achieves more… abstinence.
That’s only one example, but it’s a factual and important one.
christoph – KPD hasn’t provided any list of a ‘lot of the problems’ with our democratic system in Canada. He has reduced the definition of democracy to only one value: popular election of the head of state.
He ignores that our monarcy or head of state is titular and has absolutely no powers. Why does he ignore this? I’ve no idea but it’s like declaring that dinasaurs can attack the lions on the savannah.
Also, the key executive officers in the US are not elected directly; namely the VP, the Sec of State, the Sec of Treasury, etc.. all who are in the line of succession of power. The VP is not elected or chosen but is an appendage to the Presidential nominee, who is, himself, not chosen by the people but by a political party. Then, this nominee is put to the popular vote, which may be rejected by the Electoral College. There are lots of checks in this process!
I think a major problem with the Canadian system is the proportion of appointees – to the Senate, to the judiciary, and so many other positions. This has set up an oligarchy in Canada, a Set of entrenched bureaucrats. Washington has that problem as well, but our mode of appointees makes it a huge problem here.
The other problems are bilingualism, which rejects over 80% of the population for key roles in govt; and identity politics; and allowing Quebec to have its own political party. These have nothing to do with democracy per se but they are serious constraints on a robust democracy..and mean that it is difficult for democracy to function well in Canada.
These problems have nothing to do with ‘being on the ballot’ but are structural. Therefore, my concerns about the robustness of democracy in Canada – and we ARE a democracy despite KPD’s false claims – are structural and have zilch to do with ‘being on a ballot’.
you tink it hizzy being a complete goof
Dion was asked why he’s spending precious time in the last hours of the campaign in British Columbia, where the Liberals appear to be far behind, instead of in key Ontario battlegrounds targeted Monday by NDP Leader Jack Layton.
“We have great candidates, we are in the race, we are in the competition,” Dion said.
The Liberals are not expected to win more than about two seats in B.C.
This is what a ballot looks like in a representative republic.
Sample Ballot for Precinct V011
2008 General Election/Municipal Elections
November 4, 2008
——————————————————————————–
President/Vice President
John McCain/Sarah Palin REP
Barack Obama/Joe Biden DEM
Gloria La Riva/Eugene Puryear PSL
Chuck Baldwin/Darrell Castle CPF
Gene Amondson/Leroy Pletten PRO
Bob Barr/Wayne A. Root LIB
Thomas Robert Stevens/Alden Link OBJ
James Harris/Alyson Kennedy SWP
Cynthia McKinney/Rosa Clemente GRE
Alan Keyes/Brian Rohrbough AIP
Ralph Nader/Matt Gonzalez ECO
Brian Moore/Stewart Alexander SOC
Charles Jay/John Wayne Smith BTP
Write-In Candidate
U.S. Representative, Dist. 20
Debbie Wasserman Schultz DEM
Margaret Hostetter NPA
Write-In Candidate
State Senator, Dist. 31
Eleanor Sobel DEM
Write-In Candidate
Clerk of the Circuit Court
Howard C. Forman DEM
Beverly B. Kennedy NPA
Sheriff
Al Lamberti REP
Scott J. Israel DEM
Property Appraiser
Lori Parrish DEM
Write-In Candidate
Supervisor of Elections
Brenda C. Snipes DEM
Ellen Harriet Brodsky NPA
Florida Supreme Court Justice
Charles T. Wells
4th District Court of Appeal
W. Matthew Stevenson
Martha C. Warner
Mark E. Polen
Circuit Court Judge, Grp. 3
Bernard Isaac “Bernie” Bober
Pedro E. Dijols
Circuit Court Judge, Grp. 21
Paul D. Eichner
Merrilee Ehrlich
Circuit Court Judge, Grp. 27
Steven B. Feren
Mark W. Rickard
School Board, Dist. 1
Ann Murray
Richard W. “Rick” Saltrick
Broward Soil & Water Conservation District, Dist. 3
Oliver Parker
Fred Segal
Walnut Creek CDD, Seat 4
Andrew Gaskin
Ali Munju
Walnut Creek CDD, Seat 5
Madeline B. DeFalco
Elina S. Levenson
“christoph – KPD hasn’t provided any list of a ‘lot of the problems’ with our democratic system in Canada.”
Actually, KPD exagerated problems within the Canadian system, but he correctly stated problems with our unelected Senate (most Canadian conservatives want an elected one, remember, including Stephen Harper), s/he overlooked how unequal our riding size is, which is a huge democratic problem if you believe in “representation by population” and likewise the distribution of Senators is skewed, again against the west.
I love Canada and America. I’m loyal to Canada if push ever came to shove, which it won’t.
That said, I believe the U.S. has, in most instances, a superior democratic system for reasons I (and other Canadian conservatives at different times) have touched upon.
Canada’s one of the two finest countries in the world (the other being Australia!)… but America’s institutions have better checks and balances and they’re more democratic.
If Canada had the United States’ massive military (including nuclear and high tech major weapon system superiority) power, large much more dense population, and economic production capacity with our system of government, I believe it would be difficult to maintain this country as a democracy over the long-term.
Well, maybe KPD hasn’t (has actually), but I’ve provided some (more serious ones).
I agree with you, ET, that Canada’s system is far more democratic in practice than KPD would have us believe, but I also believe that structurally the American system has more checks and balances and is more accountable to the people.
To me the answer to that isn’t to bash Canada, it’s to get elected senators, possibly look at assigning senators to the provinces more equally, and enshrining the principle of representation by population viz: riding size into our constitution.
Now, here’s the rub. How to do it with the smaller overendowed provinces protecting the out of balance with their population level of democratic they have now?
You solve that problem and you can be a Canadian Prime Minister for the ages.
*democratic = representation
… in the second last sentence of my last comment.
Good back and forth on the differences between our respective “democracies”. I thank you both.
However, I like the concept of actual rights to free speech, without restriction, the right to property and especially the “pursuit of happiness” of the American Constitution, rather than our lame, moaning Charter.
I would much like an elected Senate and Judiciary
christoph – the ‘teenage pregnancies’ in the US etc have absolutely nothing to do with the nature of our different democracies. They have a great deal to do with the population ratio, with cultural factors (the matriarchal model in black culture) and so on.
I’m not into ‘love’ of country, but I deeply admire the US. Its constitution, amendments and declaration of independence are a marvel of restrained reason and acceptance of duties and rights. I admire the US focus on the individual – something that has been strongly repressed in Canada by our Charter and our culture of economic dependence on the US. I admire their ability to take risks – again, something repressed in Canada which has set itself up as a dependent economy. The scientific superiority of the US is directly related to their focus on the ability of the individual to Reason. We, in Canada, we reject this ability – that’s why we have so many appointments to our govt.
I don’t think that ‘Canada is one of the two finest countries in the world’. I think that insults the people of other countries, including the US, Australia, New Zealand ..and many others. We are all human, remember.
I repeat, I think that Canada’s ratio of appointed to elected officers in govt is extreme. I reject the Senate. I certainly don’t think that a ‘massive military’etc would make Canada undemocratic!
My argument with KDB was merely over his limited and therefore, totally false, definition of ‘what is a democracy’. His limitation of it to ‘electing heads of state’ is ridiculous. His insistence on ignoring that our head of state, the monarch, is titular only and without legislative power, shows his rejection of thought and analysis.
Canada is a democracy. It has deep structural problems – the ratio of appointees, bilingualism, identity politics and Quebec. It has cultural problems – the rejection of the individual and Reason. BUT – it’s still a democracy. That was my major point.
My sincere congratulations to all Canadians who will exercise their privilege to vote for your candidates and plebiscites today. Canada is an exemplar of good grace, fair play, decency, and Western ideals of tolerance, commerce, and morality. Canada symbolizes freedom to a lot of people in the world, and is in my most humble opinion, among greatest nations ever to grace this Earth. I can honestly say that I am proud to have hailed from there and consider it my honor and privilege to live and stand beside her as a neighbor, a brother, and a friend.
God Bless Canada
I’m in Bill Siksay’s riding{NDP].My wife and I just voted for the good guys as well.The only political entity to phone me was the NDP.When asked if they could count on my support,I responded,”absolutely not”.After a second of silence the caller asked if I would tell them who I was going to vote for,they received the same answer.
“I voted this morning, noticed a steady stream of people at the polling station, mostly seniors.”
Early risers!
=================
Vote before you croak!!
Good one Louise.
I’m off to walk through the crack head gaunlet to cast my vote in Olivia Chow-land.
This video was shot 50 feet from the polling station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl1vXsnKeE4&feature=related
a well placed cup to deflect critics.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/photos/?dataPath=/photogallery/canadavotes/gallery_1677/xml/gallery_1677.xml&detectflash=false
I just got back from doing my civic duty. Everyone here is rooting for the Marxist-Leninist party, right?
In discussing the advantages of democratic systems in the USA and Canada, one can’t forget Marc Lalonde’s memorable comments when asked if Pierre Trudeau was trying to turn Canada into a republican form of govt like the USA.
Lalonde’s answer (approximately) was ‘why would Trudeau ever take a CUT in power to become a mere president like the US?’
A majority PM can, and has, become an absolute tyrant under the Canadian govt system because he appoints the GG, all of the Supreme Court, and all of the Ministers of the govt. and all of the state corporations, like the CWB.
He unilaterally calls all of the shots on policy and usually fires all opposition.
He can have his head stuck as far up his ethno-centric a$$ as he wants and nobody can do anything about it, except say yes.
The USA on the other hand, has a President who is limited by a division of power between the judicial, executive and legislative branches of govt.
Canada has suffered greatly because of this differnce because what works in Toronto or Montreal doesn’t necessarily apply in backwoods Canada, where most real Canadians live.
My estimate is that Canada would be at least a 20% richer country if it had a limit on the powers of the PM.
A triple E senate would do wonders for all of the country.
Honourable Josée Verner didn’t bother to vote for herself, she voted in her home riding. Problem is, there’s no Conservative running in her riding.
Conservative minister votes ????
The United States of America is not a nation of 250+million citizens, but a union of 50 sovereign States.
Posted by: KPD at October 14, 2008 3:41 PM
=================================================
first off, the USA has over 300 million, plus over 12 million ilegals, thats over 312 million
second of, a sovereign entity is one that can defends it’s own borders, and I’d like to see anyone of those 50 “states” try it!!
Count me in too!
Hmm. I wonder if that’s why I wrote:
I am, depending on the country, and in Canada’s case, most definitely!
Just to cut to the chase: I’m praying for a miracle! Nothing is impossible with God!
Just to cut to the chase: I’m praying for a miracle! Nothing is impossible with God!
Sorry for the double post–I got an error message…
‘though maybe it needed to be repeated!
Canada’s a democracy, ET, but as rockyt so ably points out, it has some serious flaws I haven’t even touched on in my comments.
Serious flaws, mind you.
Also, yes it’s a partial democracy as I’ve said, but only partially. Further to the degree that Canada’s democratic, it’s woefully and embarrassingly not represented by population.
To with, the smallest ridings in Canada are in Prince Edward Island, with the average population being around 33,500, and the largest riding in Canada Brampton West in Ontario being over 170,000.
This is not democratic representation by population.
Therefore, and for other excellent reasons discussed by others on this thread, Canada is only a partial democracy.
*To wit
I was hoping the neo-rhinos were on the ballot, but no luck. If the harpacrats get their cherished majority and there’s no serious movement on the hrc, then I’ll consider my vote wasted.
I think KPD at 4:23pm said it all. Despite all the rancour and negativity we all feel about our country, we should take some time to appreciate what we have. More importantly we should take the time to not only preserve what we have but to enhance it by electing a CPC majority tonight.
And getting laid in celebration, fulfilling our duty to bring new Conservative voters into the world! Plus improve our heart-health and lifespans. Truly this is God’s calling.
Perhaps Dief could have added one more line to this great quotation “Now agree with my definition of a Canadian, or kiss my ass and leave”!
When comparing that Bill Of Rights with the washy washy mealy mouthed Charter rights by
Truedeau ,& how they have been used to Destroy Canada while the former enhanced this Country into an industrial Success. One wants to weep over the anything goes charter, which has destroyed this polity by creating a Liberal Fascist State with no equality of law or persons. It is a document only social engineers with there lawyer goons, would care for phony rights that are so malleable to social control through HRC‘s & other bureaucratic autocracy’s. How many Canadians really believe those Rights anymore or even know they had them before secular absolutism took over? Not many I bet. We now get to elect what Master we have, not who will represent us. Even the individual choices for nomination are picked for us by party leaders.
We need a real Bill of Rights with the charter ones either explained with no misunderstandings, or thrown out, & these or similar individual liberties put back in place.
rockyt – I agree; the ratio of appointed to elected positions in Canada is a serious, serious flaw in the Canadian system. It’s about 100 times as many appointed as elected.
Think about it; the only people we elect are the MPs. We don’t elect any other agents in govt office; they are all appointed.
And, as noted, that means that a PM can be a dictator – as was Chretien. That means that a political party can become corrupt and steal the taxpayer’s money – as did the Liberal Party. It can do so, because the allotment of this money is by appointees rather than the legislature.
I fully agree – that Canada’s democratic structural system is extremely weak. My only argument was to reject KPD’s claim that unless you elect, directly, your head of state, then you aren’t a democracy.
But, the FACT that Canada’s ratio of appointed to elected positions is so absymally skewed in favour of appointments; that there is no accountability; this means a deeply flawed governance.
The question to ask: does Canada, and Canadians, have the will to reform? There’s a deeply entrenched bureaucracy that rejects change.
second of, a sovereign entity is one that can defends it’s own borders, and I’d like to see anyone of those 50 “states” try it!!
That’s why each state has its own National Guard militia and each Governor is the Commander in Chief of it. Look for the state identifier on US military aircraft to see which actual state and militia they belong to that are incorporated into the regular Army, Navy, etc.
Randy Kamp in a rout! Looks to be about 9000 spread.