Rae maintained Canadians really won’t know the true state of the nation’s books until a Liberal government takes power. But he too made an interesting concession to the impact of severe economic turbulence.
The Liberal Green Shift carbon-tax plan, said Rae, could also face a delayed implementation.
“Any government coming in has to take circumstances into account, but the direction is very clear,” said Rae.
Steve Janke asks a good question;
If the Green Shift is truly revenue neutral for the government, then why the delay? If the Green Shift is supposed to help most Canadians, then why the delay?
So Bob Rae is saying he doesn’t trust the Auditor General of Canada’s opinion of the Books?
After the way he butt-screwed the Ontario economy I suppose he has reasons not to trust Auditors – they exposed his government for the morons they were.
Extra Rae Days anyone ?
Rae’s job # 1 is to get his hands on the $$$ and shovel into Power Corp.
If the conservatives Do Not win re-election, It will make Bob Raes Ontario look like a boom town
Stephen Harper oct.07/08 speaking at the canadian club of toronto
The fact that Rae has any political clout in Ontario is evidence of the true motivations of voters in Ontario. Voters in Ontario seem to be willing to support a Liberal with a horrendous record to prevent any decentralization of power in government. The goal of central Canadians appears to be to hold on the the purse strings of the country. “Vote Liberal, the ends justify the means”.
If this election goes bad for the Conservatives, the media will blame PMSH and his poor campaign when in fact the culprits will be the voters in central Canada. If ever there was evidence of cultural incompatibility, the electoral map of Canada is that.
Janke asks a question that no reporter will ask Dion. Sadly.
Ok, stop bashing Ontario. We gave Harper 40 seats last election and were well on the way to giving him more. He’s got to take a stand though! He’s letting Dion, Layton, and Duceppe attack him and he’s rolling over and saying “can I have another one, sir!”
He’s got to drop the nice sweater wearing image. Canadian’s want a leader that will fight for them when times are tough. Not one that gets pushed around because he thinks Canadians might perceive him as a scary guy if he doesn’t let the opposition beat him up.
Start fighting Steve. I’m from Ontario and I already vote for you but you got to do a better job of fighting back.
Screw Janke!
I NEED a government agency that’ll move money intact from my left pocket to my right.
My first question and only about the Green Shift was if the Libs messed up the gun regisrty how could we trust them with an environmental program?
I have another question.
What are the top ten porn movies that have received Canadian government funding? All these artists who are protesting and beaking off assume that they represent culture that I want.
“He’s got to drop the nice sweater wearing image. Canadian’s want a leader that will fight for them when times are tough. Not one that gets pushed around because he thinks Canadians might perceive him as a scary guy if he doesn’t let the opposition beat him up.”
Phil
Take some responsibility!
It is Ontario who votes Liberal election after election. You mention 40 seat, but out of how many? 40? 60? 80? Nope, that’s 40/106. Too many people in Ontario have values that are not compatible with those of us in western Canada. If we have a Liberal government on Oct 15/08 it WILL be because of Ontario voters. That isn’t bagging on Ontario, that is just the truth.
WRT your statement, the very thing you suggest is the thing that hurts Harper in Ontario and Quebec. Anytime Harper does anything that appears masculine, central Canadians start running around screaming the sky is falling. It’s voters in Ontario that want a feminized scholar for PM, not us here in AB/Sask, so please spare us the excuses for the collective actions on the Ontario voters.
If a person were forced to listen to only the msm, that person would believe that this election was happening in Ontario and Quebec! There are 10 provinces and 3 territores in ths nation named Canada- why are western and Martme opinions being ignored by the msm we are all forced to pay for through taxes? Could it be the WAY we vote that the Puffin Plumpers in the media don’t like?
Things that make me go hummmm….
Indiana
You mean Alberta. Most of Western Canada is at least as left as Ontario. For starters, we only elected the NDP once and most of the voters who did, cast them thinking it was a protest vote which wouldn’t mean an NDP government.
How many NDP government have served in 3 of the 4 western provinces? SK just got rid of theirs, BC is 50/50 with the other choice being the current government of carbon-tax LIBERALS, MN has a current NDP government…
Where is the Mike Harris of BC? MN? Even the new guy in SK is a pale second-rater when it comes to right-wing government.
Spare us the “it’s all Ontario’s fault” sh*t.
it’s as simple as ABC
TSX composite closes above 10,000 up 228 on the day.
This in spite of what triggered the slide in the first place, Don Carson of Merril Lynch downgrading Potash Corp. from buy to under perform or in other words sell.
Then Dion and Layton running around like chicken little saying “the sky is falling.”
Dion/Layton are not fit to govern, especially Dion. Just how much of his leadership debt does he still have to pay off after having received two extensions?
“Rae maintained Canadians really won’t know the true state of the nation’s books until a Liberal government takes power.”
Canadians won’t know the true state of the nation’s books until the Liberal government created Access to Information Act 1983, which prevents Canadians from seeing “the Books”, is repealed and replaced with a genuine Act which guarantees Canadians can see “the Books”.
Transparency now.
“Any government coming in has to take circumstances into account, but the direction is very clear,” said Rae.
So, even a Dipper can learn after crashing a whole province into the wall. Who’d a thunk it?
Warwick
It’s not Sh*t, and I know that many in Ont. share the same frustrations; but, you are misrepresenting the facts. We are not talking provincial politics, we are talking federal. 73% of western Canadian seats are Conservative and only 39% of the seats in Ontario are Conservative. We are doing EVERYTHING we can in the west to steer this country in the right direction. We’ve practiced what we preached, we pay off debt and vote Conservative.
I almost always agree with your comments so I will ask this question, and consider your response seriously: What can we do as western Canadians to have some real influence in our federal government?
When you respond, consider a current issue like the CWB and how we can accomplish our desires without permission from Ontario voters.
Not to worry, the Lieberals are putting on a show of unity now. We’ll be fed that message every hour on all media and see them all buddy-buddy, Dion, Iggy, Rae, Goodale, et al. Seriously, has anyone seen Rae and Iggy together?
Watching the media coverage we really have to wonder if there’s any point in Harper running with such perfection ready and so damned able to run the country so much better and save us from some disaster that is sure to befall this country if Harper gets re-elected.
That’s the state of the media which would be more a fit in a third world dictatorship.
It’s all about the polls riding up and down for the Conservatives and what the Liberals need to do to get power. As well which other parties should vote strategically to stop Harper.
The non-reporting of Harper events which have huge crowds,misquoting and outright lying about his message, it’s too outrageous to tolerate but the media beat goes on unchallenged.
This is a national disgrace of major proportions the likes of which we’ve never seen in this democracy. It calls for some action from we the people, but what?
Well asked Indiana.
I’me interested in Warwick’s answer. An underlying Western Canadian frustration is something I see and feel on the jobsite and what or how are questions that solution focused folk ask.
If things both north and south of the 49th break left the possible solutions available are going to be limited and unpleasant.
Syncro
Dion ADMITS in Q&A today,that no matter the state of economy he will start to implement the carbon tax asap!
On the braaaawdcast tonite,we find out who is behind one of the vote-swap sites..it is co-founder of TO celeb gossip rag NOW mag (Alice Klein)Yeah…that will influence my vote,a rag that has a headline..’I did so much cocaine my hair fell out’
They had pollMartin on the radio saying there is no one capable of handling the economy except dionky. Spliced in with pollys crap was a shrieking dionky barking about Harpers lack of leadership during the “Crisis” and arpers haygonomic market failures-just like the republicans!
the whole thing had the tone of something from 1930s germany.
Kevin…an add on for your question:
When the Libs and MSM and Atwoods start their silly rant and fearmongering about culture and arts why doesn’t the CPC clarify that the cuts were to porn films and other indecent ventures?
A little bird very well connected to the left of the LPC, with a line into the Layton team, says that a coalition is already negotiated. Dion as a figurehead, Rae as Minister of Finance, Iggy as Foreign Affairs, Layton with a new Social Justice Ministry. The scenario is that Harper will try to govern once Parliament is recalled, be brought down on some pretext, and Michelle Jean will invite Dion to try to form a government. Rae and the left-wing of the Liberal Party get rid of Dion in a few months, probably as Ambassador to the EU, or they’ll swing a new UN Environment Secretariat for him.
Canada will be set for a permanent Left-Liberal government.
Hopefully Canadians come to their senses and realize that the only politico telling anything close to the truth on the economy is Harper.
Few in politics know Canada as well as Bob Rae, from Pickering in the east to Clarkson in the west, and into the northern wilderness, a land where the wild caribou roam, given the strange native names like Richmond Hill, Markham, Stouffville, a name few can even pronounce.
He knows it all, and then they have Iggy too. With Dion, it’s like having 3-C-PO, R-2-D2 and Yoda. Let’s hope Hands so Low can do something about them, because Master Jack is stuck in the Orange Nebula.
Forgot to mention, Princess Liz won’t even turn on her light stick, she’s afraid of overheating the atmosphere.
The future books on this election should be very interesting.
“Future books interesting…”
You bet. If we still have historians and not civil servants appointed to manage archives and pose as historians, they may comment on how we had this important election without even a debate on the REALITY of the supposed “crisis” in the earth’s climate. They may note that nobody mentioned freedom of speech being under attack relentlessly in Canada for the past decade. They may wonder why our nation elected spendthrift socialists at a time when the economy was in sharp decline.
Or they may mark this as the emergence of the Cult of Liz May.
Dion has contradicted back. On Mansbridge interview, he stated more than once that he would not delay implementation of green shift because economists have told him he must do it now to save the planet.
This would happen before his 30 day stabilization plan (he stammered about some measures here), and meetings with the world guru community, so he can decide what he should decide to do about the present crisis that demands immediate action.
He sais unequivocably there would be no delay in implementation. How that grab you Bob?
Beware of the eco-nazis under the green swatika the nazis were big time enviromentalists
I can’t believe what we have such a bunch of morons running for office. And worse, people who would vote for them, who don’t pay attention and “make their decision at the last minute”
A recession is on the horizon, and we will likely get hit by the downturn in the US. But the Libs and the Dippers are talking about raising taxes??!!!
To save us!!!???
And people are buying this garbage!!!
It looks to me that Liz May was right, the electorate are stupid and we have a media that supports it.
Here’s some questions to go along with facts for consideration.
All parties have a policy on GHG and global warming. We’ve heard the green shift described as a huge tax grab, a transfer of wealth from West to East, the new NEP. But as we all know this is the green shift defined by Harper and the Conservatives. These are facts.
Now the questions. Where is John Baird to explain the Conservative plan “Turning the Corner”? Both plans have costs that will trickle down to the end consumer. (Although the revenue neutral Liberal plan will return revenue to tax payers..Under supervision of auditor general) Since there is more people in Eastern Canada, then wouldn’t logic tell you that Eastern Canada would be paying a larger portion of the Carbon tax than the West because they consume more? How does the wealth get transferred? Why won’t conservatives talk about their plan? The stategy of defining the Liberal plan is a good political strategy. But while doing that you need to show us that the Conservative plan is superior. Why aren’t Conservatives showing any pride in their superior plan? Could it be that it would actually cost the taxpayer more? Could it be that it would be totally ineffective? Why do they attack oppposition plans in one breath then the next breath they talk about a continent wide cap and trade system? They know that both presidential candidates are talking about introduction of a policy to put a price on carbon. Now they want to co-ordinate with US to implement the NDP plan? The whole thing leaves so many un-answered questions and as usual the Conservatives are fighting this election on Liberal government record rather than their own. Does the release of a platform 6 days before election day and days after the leader’s debate, show a belief in their own platform? What are they hiding regarding their evironmental plan?
luc
I am voting Conservative but I agree with you wrt the Con’s and the Carbon plan. Where we probably differ is that I think AGW is a scam that all of our politicians (north and south) had bought into; therefore, all things being equal, my choice is to vote for the guy that will screw me (Dion) or the guy who will screw me a little bit (Harper). I prefer to be screwed just a little bit if I have to get screwed.
You are wrong about the transfer of wealth. The Green Shift will transfer $$ to the east. Western Canada will put in 40-50% of the revenue and will only be returned 10% of the tax refund( this doesn’t factor in the exemptions that will inevitably be applied disproportionately to central Canadian industry which will tilt the balance more).The tax MAY be revenue neutral nationally; but, it is defiantly not revenue neutral for Alberta and Saskatchewan.
Indiana,
Yes, Saskatchewan and Alberta will produce the GHG. But producers will not produce at a loss. Extra costs will be transferred down the line to the end consumer. Most end consumers in Canada are in Eastern Canada. So although the money will be collected from western Canada, it’s eastern Canada that will be supplying the money to Western Canda to pay the tax.
My biggest problem with the green shift, is how will they work out the international trade part of this plan? To keep a level playing field, exported oil would be required to pay the tax also. Now would we turn over the carbon tax portion to the US government for their oil imports? And if the US simply reimbursed the importer with that money, then the end consumer would not be paying for this and the playing field would not be level. Since we would be losing control of the program, the only option would be to keep in Canada, the carbon tax on exports. Whatever program, there are consequences that need to be addressed. Definitely, the imports would also have to have the carbon tax levied if they come from a country with no carbon tax or if the exporting country removed the tax at their border.
Although the plan is simple and works off of conservative principles of supply and demand. It needs more thought in it’s implementation when it comes to intl trade. But when it comes to which one will screw us more, I really don’t have any confidence in the NDP Cap and trade system nor the innefective high cost Conservative “Turning the corner” system. Again, why is the Conservative party addressing the Green shift so much, while not mentioning their program? Where is John Baird?
Indiana,
This is just one more point, that I don’t know if you ever took into account. Right now the Western world is transferring a huge amount of wealth to the middle east. We are very dependent on Oil and Natural gas. That is a fact. Now let’s take AGW out of the picture since you don’t believe in it.
Oil is not a renewable resource. So as it becomes more scarce and expensive to produce, are we supposed to do nothing about researching alternatives until oil becomes prohibitively expensive? These measures about reducing GHG are all beneficial in that it encourages research into alternative energy. Would we rather get caught flat-footed when all of a sudden it costs $5000 to fill your tank if you even have gasoline available at all. We have to think past the present economy to have a long term sustainable future. Oil is not going to last another 50 years. There’s a reason that Harper made his targets stretch out to 2050. By then there will be much less oil to burn and we will not have a choice other than to dip below 1990 levels.
Indiana,
This is just one more point, that I don’t know if you ever took into account. Right now the Western world is transferring a huge amount of wealth to the middle east. We are very dependent on Oil and Natural gas. That is a fact. Now let’s take AGW out of the picture since you don’t believe in it.
Oil is not a renewable resource. So as it becomes more scarce and expensive to produce, are we supposed to do nothing about researching alternatives until oil becomes prohibitively expensive? These measures about reducing GHG are all beneficial in that it encourages research into alternative energy. Would we rather get caught flat-footed when all of a sudden it costs $5000 to fill your tank if you even have gasoline available at all. We have to think past the present economy to have a long term sustainable future. Oil is not going to last another 50 years. There’s a reason that Harper made his targets stretch out to 2050. By then there will be much less oil to burn and we will not have a choice other than to dip below 1990 levels.
too much. iam finished.
LUC
I concur, it is ridiculous te expect foreign customers to pay more expensive $$ for oil from us.
When I say screw a little bit I’m takeing the whole election into account. Apples being apples wrt Carbon I’m a “c”onservative so the “little bit” is a matter of perspective.
“. Extra costs will be transferred down the line to the end consumer.”
No, no, no Steffi says it will not cost the end user, he says it will be applied “whole sale”. Now I think we can agree that the cost will be passed on, but the intent is to transfer wealth.
“Oil is not a renewable resource.”
There is enough oil to supply the world for another 100 years using current technology and considering the worlds population growth. This doesn’t account for fossil fuels that we know are available, but are too expensive to extract with current technology.(ex shale oil reserves: the United States have more oil in the form of shale oil than oil has been burned in the history of mankind). There is no need to ration for supplies sake.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/u_s__has_massive_oil.html